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View Full Version : Most important Allied "Weapon".



DaBallz
01-07-2004, 04:11 PM
As #1 ,far and away, I pick the "Liberty ship".

As #2, I pick LSTs (Landing Ship Tank).

We could build em faster than the U Boats could sink em.
Without Liberty Ships all that weaponry could never have reached Europe.

Da

DaBallz
01-07-2004, 04:11 PM
As #1 ,far and away, I pick the "Liberty ship".

As #2, I pick LSTs (Landing Ship Tank).

We could build em faster than the U Boats could sink em.
Without Liberty Ships all that weaponry could never have reached Europe.

Da

bazzaah2
01-07-2004, 04:14 PM
Liberty ship's a good choice.

In a similar vein, I'll go for the Dakota.

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SKULLS_LZ
01-07-2004, 04:22 PM
Manpower (soldiers, sailors, airmen and workers) of the U.S.S.R.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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horseback
01-07-2004, 04:26 PM
Jeep carriers. Small carriers, built on freighter hulls, used to provide ASW aircraft patrols in the form of TBF/TBM Avengers and F4F/FM-1/2 Wildcats over the central Atlantic. First used in '43, became major players in breaking the back of the U-Boat threat. Didn't need to outproduce ship losses after that point.

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

ElAurens
01-07-2004, 04:33 PM
Both are good choices.

I would include the C47 and this...



http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/img/DE/DE-529_Mason.gif

The Destroyer Escort.

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MiloMorai
01-07-2004, 04:46 PM
There is the Flower class corvettes that were initially for in-shore duty but pressed into service on the wild North Atlantic.

Anyone want to model it?

DaBallz, the LCVP(Landing Craft, Vehicle Personnel) I would put ahead of the LST.

nickdanger3
01-07-2004, 06:10 PM
Overwhelming advantages in natural resources, population, and industrial production. What ever worked, the Allies could simply make more of faster.

Oh, and the fact that Nazis and the government of Imperial Japan were, like, totally evil.

jensenpark
01-07-2004, 06:19 PM
Please no one answer the freakin' Mustang...

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"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

Gibbage1
01-07-2004, 06:30 PM
I say the Bat Missile.

http://www.navylib.com/ContributedPics/S.Hawley/SHBat2.jpg

Development of the Bat was supervised by the Navy's Bureau of Ordnance in partnership with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), with the National Bureau of Standards in charge of the overall development. MIT's Dr. Hugh L. Dryden later won the Presidental Certificate of Merit for the development of the Bat. Flight tests were conducted at the Naval Air Ordnance Test Station at Chincoteague Island, Va. The Bat eventually saw combat service from May, 1945, off Borneo and destroyed several Japanese ships including a destroyer sunk at a 20 mile range. Several Bat missiles were also fitted with modified radar systems and destroyed Japanese-held bridges in Burma and other areas. The Bat was also designated ASM-N-2 and Swod (Mk 9 Mod 0 and 1). Thousands of Bat missiles were produced and went through several modifications.

Net even the "technically superior" Germans could develop a working radar guided bomb by the end of the war and use it. I remember they did try, but it failed. Our worked, and worked well in combat.

Gib

DaBallz
01-07-2004, 06:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I say the Bat Missile.

http://www.navylib.com/ContributedPics/S.Hawley/SHBat2.jpg

Development of the Bat was supervised by the Navy's Bureau of Ordnance in partnership with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), with the National Bureau of Standards in charge of the overall development. MIT's Dr. Hugh L. Dryden later won the Presidental Certificate of Merit for the development of the Bat. Flight tests were conducted at the Naval Air Ordnance Test Station at Chincoteague Island, Va. The Bat eventually saw combat service from May, 1945, off Borneo and destroyed several Japanese ships including a destroyer sunk at a 20 mile range. Several Bat missiles were also fitted with modified radar systems and destroyed Japanese-held bridges in Burma and other areas. The Bat was also designated ASM-N-2 and Swod (Mk 9 Mod 0 and 1). Thousands of Bat missiles were produced and went through several modifications.

Net even the "technically superior" Germans could develop a working radar guided bomb by the end of the war and use it. I remember they did try, but it failed. Our worked, and worked well in combat.

Gib<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Germans really only held an edge in rocketry. The Americans developed radar proximity fuses, nuclear weapons and as you pointed out, radar guided bombs.
The Brits developed short wave length radar, code breaking computers, and helped develop the A bomb.

I am only scratching the surface.

Radar proximity fuses were already in service for the Guadalcanal campaign.

Oh yes, the Germans held a marginal advantage in Jets, but it was more imaginary than real. The P-80 would have changed everything.

But the thread is about the top allied war winning weapon systems. I like the Russian t-34 tank on the list along with a KEY weapon, the Hawker Hurricane (yup, the Hurricane). Without the Hurri Germany may have prevailed in the BOB, or more likely forced the entry of the US under less favorable conditions.

Da

nickdanger3
01-07-2004, 07:17 PM
What about:

the code-cracking machines (and their cryptologists) and British radar in the BoB?

Taking "weapons" in it's widest definition.

Korolov
01-07-2004, 07:33 PM
The 500lb bomb.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
01-07-2004, 07:45 PM
Willy and Joe WON the WAR ---&gt; http://www.readstripes.com/02/nov02/mauldin/



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horseback
01-07-2004, 08:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Both are good choices.

I would include the C47 and this...



http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/img/DE/DE-529_Mason.gif

The Destroyer Escort.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yo, Blitz

I spent 3 years on an FF (new & improved name for DE) in the '70s. The difference between a Destroyer (DD) and a Frigate/DE, besides size, is that destroyers had four boilers and two screws, and FF/DEs had two boilers and one screw. While surface units were good for mopping up and scaring U-Boats away, I still have to go with the Jeep Carriers.

When carrier guys or Marines came aboard my ship for a ride, the HTs (the rating tasked with plumbing, among other things) would always install safety belts on the toilets. You can't imagine how hard it is to keep from laughing when you're in the head and you hear the click of the seatbelts being buckled in the stall next to you. Especially when the ship is still tied to the pier.

Cheers

horseback

P.S. Frigate Sailers do it with one good screw!

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

RedDeth
01-07-2004, 08:03 PM
LST is landing ship transport.... not tank. aint it???

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pourshot
01-07-2004, 08:05 PM
Here you go US tv guided drones in ww2 click here (http://www.stagone.org/tdr1.html)

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Ride It Like Ya Stole It

MiloMorai
01-07-2004, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
LST is landing ship transport.... not tank. aint it???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope the T is for tank.

for photos
http://www.abiz4me.com/Lstphotos.html

WhiskeyRiver
01-07-2004, 08:17 PM
M1 Garand. The Germans had the G43 and the Russians fielded the SVT 38 and SVT 40. Neither was fielded in the numbers that the Garand was.

American submarines wiped Japanese commerce also.

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint F*cking Eastwood

BM357_Raven
01-07-2004, 08:25 PM
and the correct answer is:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Overwhelming advantages in natural resources, population, and industrial production. What ever worked, the Allies could simply make more of faster.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

also:

2) Hitler was insane and in control of the final decision making.

3) The Allied broke the Axis's code making system..

S~

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necrobaron
01-07-2004, 08:32 PM
Interesting post!

1.C-47
2.Willys Jeep
3.Carrier

But the most important was the support back home, and the dedication,bravery and sacrifice of the everyday military man....

Menthol_moose
01-07-2004, 08:44 PM
massive industrialisation, access to raw materials, labour and oil

[This message was edited by Menthol_moose on Wed January 07 2004 at 08:07 PM.]

Gibbage1
01-07-2004, 09:16 PM
Sorry. For some reason I though the thread was about the most wanted allied weapon. I think a self guiding bomb would be very much wanted http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaBallz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I say the Bat Missile.

http://www.navylib.com/ContributedPics/S.Hawley/SHBat2.jpg

Development of the Bat was supervised by the Navy's Bureau of Ordnance in partnership with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), with the National Bureau of Standards in charge of the overall development. MIT's Dr. Hugh L. Dryden later won the Presidental Certificate of Merit for the development of the Bat. Flight tests were conducted at the Naval Air Ordnance Test Station at Chincoteague Island, Va. The Bat eventually saw combat service from May, 1945, off Borneo and destroyed several Japanese ships including a destroyer sunk at a 20 mile range. Several Bat missiles were also fitted with modified radar systems and destroyed Japanese-held bridges in Burma and other areas. The Bat was also designated ASM-N-2 and Swod (Mk 9 Mod 0 and 1). Thousands of Bat missiles were produced and went through several modifications.

Net even the "technically superior" Germans could develop a working radar guided bomb by the end of the war and use it. I remember they did try, but it failed. Our worked, and worked well in combat.

Gib<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Germans really only held an edge in rocketry. The Americans developed radar proximity fuses, nuclear weapons and as you pointed out, radar guided bombs.
The Brits developed short wave length radar, code breaking computers, and helped develop the A bomb.

I am only scratching the surface.

Radar proximity fuses were already in service for the Guadalcanal campaign.

Oh yes, the Germans held a marginal advantage in Jets, but it was more imaginary than real. The P-80 would have changed everything.

But the thread is about the top allied war winning weapon systems. I like the Russian t-34 tank on the list along with a KEY weapon, the Hawker Hurricane (yup, the Hurricane). Without the Hurri Germany may have prevailed in the BOB, or more likely forced the entry of the US under less favorable conditions.

Da<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WUAF_Badsight
01-07-2004, 09:31 PM
`
. . . . . what BM357_Raven said . . . . .

pinche_bolillo
01-07-2004, 09:40 PM
lets not forget the 2 1/2 ton truck, depending on the theater it was used more than the C-47 to transport, truck in the eto, c-47 in the pto. an army fights on beans and bullets.

Ins_Javert
01-07-2004, 09:56 PM
Duece and a half, Rosie the rivetor, need to be in here somwhere.

Suckerpunch11
01-07-2004, 09:56 PM
The proximity fuse.

maverick7614
01-07-2004, 10:05 PM
Id have to say the Aircraft carrier for the pacific and possibly the higgins landing craft. Also not specific the the 8th air squadron that bombed the hell out of the German juggernaut....... during the day!!!!!!!!!!

BfHeFwMe
01-07-2004, 11:27 PM
I'd have to go with Eisenhower on this one, he said it was the C-47.

GeorgiaPeach39
01-07-2004, 11:37 PM
In a way, I would have to say the civilian populations of all countries that worked their butts off in the factories making the guns, ordance, and planes.

MolecatcherJohn
01-08-2004, 01:12 AM
A lot of American kit mentioned here. Anyone remember the Hurricane? You know, the main defence during the Battle of Britain?

hobnail
01-08-2004, 01:37 AM
The battalion of vat-grown genetically enhanced Audy Murphys that fought on the Eastern Front but could never be officially recognised.

God bless those clones.

http://users.on.net/apoulos/webbanner.jpg (http://www.jg11.com)

Antony_B
01-08-2004, 02:03 AM
The overwhelming will to win, helped by the sense of a just cause.

LazyNerd_
01-08-2004, 02:12 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hobnail:
The battalion of vat-grown genetically enhanced Audy Murphys that fought on the Eastern Front but could never be officially recognised.

God bless those clones.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif lol!

Flying as :FI:Lazo of the Fighting Irish Squad.

SpinSpinSugar
01-08-2004, 03:56 AM
MoleCatcherJohn,

You must be mistaken, surely WWII began in 1942? There was some other conflict though, started in 1939 I think. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The key Allied Weapon?

Winston Churchill and his will to fight.

In terms of fighting machinery, agree, a package of the Hurricane (numerically) and the Spitfire (psychologically) in combination with Fighter command logistics and, vitally, RADAR.

Before that, it was all one way traffic. This is where the tide first turned.

America wouldn't enter the war in the West before Britain had proved she was secure. Indeed by 1942 Britain had moved from defence to new offensives on many fronts including the Med and North Africa, the Navy was as strong as ever and new weapons systems like the Typhoon and Lancaster were rolling from the factories in increasing numbers. Lest our American compatriots feel unloved here, I will doff my cap to the flow of aid through the Atlantic convoys, and the vision of Roosevelt and his close association with Churchill. These were key.

After the above in the BoB, Hitler became obsessed with the British problem and the fatal decision to invade Russia, to break Germany's back against T34s and Sturmoviks, was largely an attempt to starve Churchill of allies. As was throwing U-boat crews against increasingly sophisticated British and American convoy protection and those Liberty Ships. He should have been looking to the West all along, not the East.

SSS

VonShlagnoff
01-08-2004, 04:17 AM
It was one engine, The Rolls Royce Merlin that saved us, think about it, it powered fighters, bombers, trainers, target tugs, transports, mtbs rescue, launches, tanks and it was built all over the world, and it turned the mustang from a mediocre ground attack aircraft into the superb escort fighter that it became.

LW_lcarp
01-08-2004, 05:16 AM
The best weapon in Europe and the USSR was Hitler and his staff. They made so many mistakes it was only natural that they would get their butts whooped

And as far as the Pacific it was a combination of the Navy Marines and Army combined to mention even 1 thing

BSS_Goat
01-08-2004, 07:00 AM
I would say the heavy bombers from all allied nations brought Germany and Japan to there knees.

Arm_slinger
01-08-2004, 07:11 AM
Factory workers

EDtheHead6445
01-08-2004, 07:38 AM
What about the most basic of things- food. It may sound odd, but without food and water, not much can be done. After all "an army marches on its stomach." One of the best early war tactics used by the Russians was scorched earth- it forced the Germans to bring their own supplies forward, instead of eating what was available on the land. This caused massive logistical problems and slowed the advance of the German war machine until it got stuck in the mud of the Rasputitsa and frozen in the winter. Also, in Stalingrad the lack of food caused serious problems. Goring could simply not bring in the vital supplies necessary, causing the collapse, or at least aiding it. During the Battle of the Atlantic, the German Uboats were busy trying to sink convoys with supplies. The aim was to starve Britain. And where would the Americans have been without their C rations? Just a thought. Although food did not win the war, it certainly helped it. BTW I saw a programme on the BBC about weird inventions thought up by the Wheezers and Dodgers, a group of intellectuals who thought up new weapons and techniques. One of the strangest inventions was the pigeon guided missile. The pigeon would be a screen when it saw a naval target, such as a ship. In return it would be given a reward. The pecks would be used to calculate the position of the target and guide the missile to its target. The pigeons avareged 1000 pecks per minute. Strange, but apparently true http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
01-08-2004, 08:11 AM
all good suggestions
churchill may not seem important, but we was __ &lt;that close to siding with the germans, but didnt because of him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
/me adds rifles and mossies to the list

Bogun
01-08-2004, 08:15 AM
Lend-Lease

Regards,

AKA_Bogun
http://www.akawardogs.com/

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Bogun/Sevastopol.jpg

NorrisMcWhirter
01-08-2004, 10:46 AM
Correctamundo.

Also, intelligence always has a massive bearing on any warfare - even small but well deployed forces often prevail.

Take the BoB, for example.

In that sense, massive credit has to go to the code breakers and radar designers/operators.

More broadly, intelligence is all very well and good unless you have someone to carry out the work. So, kudos to those who did the dirty work.

Regards,
Norris

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Overwhelming advantages in natural resources, population, and industrial production. What ever worked, the Allies could simply make more of faster.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

also:

2) Hitler was insane and in control of the final decision making.

3) The Allied broke the Axis's code making system..

S~

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DaBallz
01-08-2004, 03:56 PM
Radar was important, the Hurricane was critical to keeping Goering from a victory in the BOB. Food was surely important, to be specific, SPAM, yup good old spiced ham. the food that kept Europe from starvation.

But all that SPAM got there by ship , that's why I chose the Liberty Ship. The Liberty was used in all theatres, the war would have been impossible without it or something like it.

Great posts guys, great suggestions.

Da

Arm_slinger
01-08-2004, 06:03 PM
Agreed the Hurri is one of the most important weapons tbh. If it wasnt for the Hurri keeping the LW at bay we may well have been over run and therefore loose our fields so that the USAF couldnt conduct ops and there for not give the P51 its status of "plane that won the war" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

GR142_Astro
01-08-2004, 06:32 PM
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/g/41cckw.jpg


Be sure.

Old_Canuck
01-09-2004, 12:22 AM
I refuse to answer this question on the grounds of possible banishment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

nicolas10
01-09-2004, 04:01 AM
I could vote liberty ship, but is ut really a "weapon"? I don't think so.

So it has to be a weapon eh. Either Hurry/Spit, or T34/Il2. Definately not the Garand or whatever us hardware that was used just in the end and didn't see any of the biggest battles.

Nic

The first official D12 whiner!

Cajun76
01-09-2004, 04:21 AM
French Army rifles.


Wait, what was this thread about? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Btw, as romantic as it always sounds, Britain did not win the BoB, they survived it. The Germans switched to city's just in time. Stupid Hitler. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stalker58
01-09-2004, 04:24 AM
____________________________________
quote:
Lend-Lease

Regards,

AKA_Bogun
____________________________________

If not on the spot, then very close!

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

WhiskeyRiver
01-09-2004, 04:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nicolas10:
I could vote liberty ship, but is ut really a "weapon"? I don't think so.

So it has to be a weapon eh. Either Hurry/Spit, or T34/Il2. Definately not the Garand or whatever us hardware that was used just in the end and didn't see any of the biggest battles.

Nic

The first official D12 whiner!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know what an M1 Garand is/was? It was used for the entire duration of the war. It saw action in every single battle US ground troops were involved in.

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint F*cking Eastwood

ElAurens
01-09-2004, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nicolas10:
I could vote liberty ship, but is ut really a "weapon"? I don't think so.

Definately not the Garand or whatever us hardware that was used just in the end and didn't see any of the biggest battles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Nic, I see you are still living in a closet. A very dark one too it seems. The M1 Garand was the standard service rifle of the United States. It saw service in every battle fought by the US. If you think the Invasion of Normandy or the Battle of the Bulge were'nt "major" battles then I think you need to re-read your history. And what about all those lend lease M3 and M4 tanks used by the British in North Africa? They were far superior to anything fielded by the Brits up to that time. The M4 was equal to the Pzkw.IV used by the Afrika Corps. American built tanks and trucks set the standard for reliability in service among all combatants in WW2.
This is a fact Nic. And what about the vast quantities of high octane aviation fuel supplied to England ad Russia? I suppose that was no good as well?

Get your head out of the sand, and stop letting your modern political agenda color your perception of history.

_____________________________

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WhiskeyRiver
01-09-2004, 05:46 AM
El Aurens, you forget Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Okinawa, Saipan, Falaise Pocket, Operation Cobra, Operation Torch, Monte Cassino, Sicily, El Alamein, and many more. The M1 Garand is still considered by many to be the greatest rifle ever made. My Grandfather used one to shoot 2 Japanese soldiers riding a motorcycle at 1260 yards in the Phillipines. For you metric users thats about 10 football/soccer fields. The distance was paced off by his company commander. This was done using iron sights from the prone position. I never knew about this til after he passed away. I was going through some of his things and found the citation. In fact he spoke very little about the war except for his great affection for Australian and New Zealand soldiers. I also found 2 Purple Hearts and some other ribbons and medals that I'm not sure what they were. But I digress.
Nic I don't know where you are from or what political views you hold but I am an American and a soldier. America since it's creation has always been a nation of rifleman. It's part of our national heritage. It's like the British feel about their Navy, Germans about engineering, French about wine, and Italians about organized crime(j/k).

Infantry win's wars. The M1 Garand was the best infantry weapon of World War 2. I think it merits consideration "the" weapon that won the war

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint F*cking Eastwood

ElAurens
01-09-2004, 05:52 AM
Agreed Whisky. But as Nic is French I thought I'd pick some battles that he would think were significant.

Also agree about M1 Garand accuracy. I have gotten 8 out of 10 "X" and the other two in the 10 ring at 600 yds with mine using the iron sights...

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nicolas10
01-09-2004, 06:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhiskeyRiver:
Do you know what an M1 Garand is/was? It was used for the entire duration of the war. It saw action in every single battle US ground troops were involved in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know perfectly what a M1 garand was. Was it the most important allied weapon? Definately not on the european front, since most of the ground fighting was done on the eastern front there. So the Garand is a ridiculous choice if you have the euro front on your mind.

Edit: I would agree that the Garand could be the best rifle in WWII. I don't know enough about the WWII semi auto guns, but I would sure consider the Garand easily among the best. That's not the point. The point is the MOST IMPORTANT allied weapon. The size of ground battles on the west front was peanuts compared to battles of Stalingrad, Kursk, and others.

Nic

The first official D12 whiner!

nicolas10
01-09-2004, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
So Nic, I see you are still living in a closet. A very dark one too it seems. The M1 Garand was the standard service rifle of the United States. It saw service in every battle fought by the US. If you think the Invasion of Normandy or the Battle of the Bulge were'nt "major" battles then I think you need to re-read your history. And what about all those lend lease M3 and M4 tanks used by the British in North Africa? They were _far_ superior to anything fielded by the Brits up to that time. The M4 was equal to the Pzkw.IV used by the Afrika Corps. American built tanks and trucks set the standard for reliability in service among all combatants in WW2.
This is a _fact_ Nic. And what about the vast quantities of high octane aviation fuel supplied to England ad Russia? I suppose that was no good as well?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blah blah blah... M3, M4? High Octane fuel? Are you trying to find something american to win the award? That sure sounds like it to me.

High Octane fuel would be something that was IMPORTANT! Definately more than a single rifle or tank model. You think the outcome of all said battles would have changed had the US used another rifle? I don't think so. You think the air war over Europe would have been different had the US not used High Octane fuel or P51s? That's more than likely. The P51 was way more important than your average tank.

Nic

Nic

The first official D12 whiner!

MolecatcherJohn
01-09-2004, 06:21 AM
I hate to say it, and I may be opening a can of worms, but maybe it was the weapon that ended the war - the Atomic Bomb? Imagine the casualties if we had had to invade Japan?

BlitzPig_Ritter
01-09-2004, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MolecatcherJohn:
I hate to say it, and I may be opening a can of worms, but maybe it was the weapon that ended the war - the Atomic Bomb? Imagine the casualties if we had had to invade Japan?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A very good point. Both American and Japanese casualties would have been extremely high. I would have to argue though that there was no single greatest weapon. On land for instance, the russian T-34 was the greatest allied tank (considering both its ability to stand up to the Panzers and its sheer numbers). At sea, the Aircraft Carrier, it ended the age of the battleship. In the air, sheer numbers. In fact, I stand corrected, there was a single greatest weapon, sheer numbers. We (that is the Russians, Americans, British Commanwelth, China and all the smaller allied nations) simply out-weighed the Axis forces in terms of man power and manufacturing.

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SpinSpinSugar
01-09-2004, 08:10 AM
Forgive me, for it is a quiet afternoon... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ElAurens, forgive some of us Europeans. Well, us Brits, at least. It's not a case of historical revisionism to suit personal poltics (well, not for me at least). It's just that some folks on here seem to forget that Britain (well, more accurately the Commonwealth) was prosecuting a succesful war on her own right up until America joined in 1942. WWII (in the West) was not just an American war, it was an Allied War, and it started in 1939. Absolutely the Garand, The Mustang, etc., played an important part but for three whole years we're looking at Hurricanes, Spitfires, Sten Guns, Royal Navy firepower, British Boffins and Canadian/Australian/Kiwi/Other Commonwealth heroics which laid the groundwork for them to prove their mettle. And drove Hitler to attack Russia, with all the consequences therein.

Unfortunately, there are some ignoramuses who continue to insist "well, you'd be speaking German today if it wasn't for..." blah de blah, which tends to promote miffed diatribes such as mine at the "Forgotten War", 1939-1942. Britain was stronger, not weaker, in 1942 than she was in 1939. Very much like your own 101st airbourne at Bastogne, we were not rescued, but very relieved to be fighting amongst friends once more.

Trust me, however, when I say that those of us who look at the whole picture would never belittle the huge US war effort, just ask that our own be recognised. You are absolutely correct in championing the cause of the Liberty Ship. That would get my vote for American contribution of choice, everything else came after, on, and in, that particular vessel and therefore it was absolutely instrumental. I fully acknowledge the scope of Allied endevour before 1942 could not have been the same without such aid, and no-one could not be grateful. In 1939/40, however, Britain was very much on her own, and it was our Winston who stood firm. And thank heaven he had a good friend in Roosevelt.

Cheers,

SSS

Seedking1
01-09-2004, 09:35 AM
SURELY THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER - IT MADE THE BATTLESHIP REDUNDANT. EVEN TODAY, AIR SUPEMACY IS THE BE ALL AND END ALL. BACK IN WW2, THE SAME WAS TRUE. IF JAPAN HAD OF STRUCK LUCKY IN PEAR HARBOUR, AND TAKEN OUT THE US CARRIER FLEET...WHO KNOWS. THE BRITISH CARRIER FLEET MORE OR LESS CONFINED THE GERMAN SURFACE RAIDERS TO THEIR HOME PORTS. CARRIERS GAVE AMERICA THE WEAPON TO MOVE ACROSS THE PACIFIC..ETC ETC

StellarRat
01-09-2004, 09:41 AM
105 mm Howitzer.

Boandlgramer
01-09-2004, 10:20 AM
i don´t know what was the most important weapon for the Allies.
but i still vote for the American Factory Worker and the Soldiers of the Red Army .
at least, these are along the " most Important People" ,
oh and not to forget Britains Premier ,Winston Churchill.

RED_Boandl
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DONB3397
01-09-2004, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
massive industrialisation, access to raw materials, labour and oil.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right! Our factories and transportation systems weren't bombed into the stone age; Germany's were.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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Udidtoo
01-09-2004, 10:45 AM
I have long belived the single most important"weapon" were the millions of men and women from dozens of nations who looked at the state of things and said " No, not on my world, not in my lifetime"

An individual grain of sand is insignificant, millions can make a avalanche.


..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

ElAurens
01-09-2004, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpinSpinSugar:
Forgive me, for it is a quiet afternoon... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


SSS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SSS...

I heartily agree with you. The Empire stood alone for a long time, and held back the tide of evil. I don't think that either the United States or the Btitish Empire could have won alone however. We needed each other, and the resultant symbiosis proved to be an unbeatable force. and... We (the US and the Empire) were the only combatants to fight a true globe spanning multi-front war. Neither the Germans nor the Russians had a concept of the importance of true Naval supremacy. The Japanese did, but underestimated both of our nation's resolve...

S!

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spets
01-09-2004, 12:24 PM
Russia would have joined in the multiple fronts, but we kinda ran out of soldiers by the time 1945 rolled around http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG27_Dacripler
01-09-2004, 02:09 PM
The same applies to the Axis as well..PEOPLE !

CRSutton
01-09-2004, 04:07 PM
Nope, no argument here, the duce and a half truck was the most critcal allied weapon. 4X4 and 6X6 drive gave Allied motorized units total off road mobility vs Axis units that were limited to single axle drive. A beautiful design far and above any other truck of the era, and they produced a scadillion of them. Even Stalin loved the duce and a half, and who here has the nerve http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif to contradict uncle Joe?

ElektroFredrik
01-09-2004, 05:53 PM
Martians... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
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Bearcat99
01-09-2004, 10:28 PM
B-17s and GIs.

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NegativeGee
01-09-2004, 11:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nicolas10:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhiskeyRiver:
Do you know what an M1 Garand is/was? It was used for the entire duration of the war. It saw action in every single battle US ground troops were involved in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know perfectly what a M1 garand was. Was it the most important allied weapon? Definately not on the european front, since most of the ground fighting was done on the eastern front there. So the Garand is a ridiculous choice if you have the euro front on your mind.

Edit: I would agree that the Garand could be the best rifle in WWII. I don't know enough about the WWII semi auto guns, but I would sure consider the Garand easily among the best. That's not the point. The point is the MOST IMPORTANT allied weapon. The size of ground battles on the west front was peanuts compared to battles of Stalingrad, Kursk, and others.

Nic

The first official D12 whiner!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Nic10. By the rationale that a small arm can be the greatest Allied weapon of WW2, the winner would be the Mosin-Nagant rifle of the Soviet Union (or maybe the PPSch-41 SMG.....) by dint of the scale of its use.

Anyway here is another suggestion: The radar network in the South of England in 1940. A critical item in a critical battle......

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

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HellToupee
01-10-2004, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_Ritter:
A very good point. Both American and Japanese casualties would have been extremely high. I would have to argue though that there was no single greatest weapon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Would" is a hot subject for debate, as japan couldnt sustain itself just keeping them on the island they would have given in, plus there was the big push for unconditional surrender, but this is about important weapons.

Most important would have to be one used in greatest numbers having the greatest effect, it would have to be something used for a considerable amount of the war and actually been effective, i dont really think the weapons of the western front would qualify under that criteria, ild have to go with the t34, sure the mosign nagant probly killed more people but i dont think it killed any tanks :P.

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Taylortony
01-10-2004, 05:46 AM
The Bullet...................... you would have got know where without it.


Einstien once said, " I don't know what weapons will be used in the third world war, but I know what will be used in the Forth.....Sticks and stones"

Cajun76
01-10-2004, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
The Bullet...................... you would have got know where without it.


Einstien once said, " I don't know what weapons will be used in the third world war, but I know what will be used in the Forth.....Sticks and stones"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pppffttt! With no bullets, the US would had to resort to our DeathRay. "Fricken' Laser Beams" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

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