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View Full Version : No one else thinks speedsters are a problem??



FabulousManStar
02-16-2017, 09:30 PM
So in case y'all didn't know, there are basically two speeds in this game: fast (oro and pk), and normal (everyone else).

Yeah in duel and brawl this isn't that big of a deal (unless an oro decides to just run to your teammate in brawl), but in dominion and especially elimination, this becomes a big issue. In elimination matches I've had speedsters just turn a the start of a match and run off to 2v1 one of your allies, with the spawn distances, you get left in the dust. This STILL wouldn't be such a big issue if it weren't for the huge impact revives and power-ups have in elimination, these characters can just turn and grab a power up or revive an ally before you can reach them to stop them. Like you can chase them as soon as they start running and you won't be close enough to stop a revive or deny the power-up. And for reference, a normal speed character with the rush feat active moves about the same speed as an oro/pk.

How is this balanced? And what reason is there for these characters to move faster than everyone else in the first place? It's not like it helps them in direct combat, or that they'd need the edge in the first place. Just normalize their speed, it'll have almost no impact on their duel and brawl performance, while making them less cheese in 4v4 modes.

FabulousManStar
02-16-2017, 10:28 PM
Yeah besides this never happening in a real game, if the 4 conqueres did as you said, the oro's could just get max buffs and roll them. You also seem to fail to realize that a speedster can run to a power-up, and then run to 2v1 your ally before you could get to that ally. This scenario gets even worse if they grab the speed buff first. There is no equal reaction to this because the speedster can do anything you can do, sooner, and faster.

FaceShots__
02-16-2017, 10:47 PM
So you want to nerf the squishy character's speed? I get maybe orochi but PK literally has nothing else going for it. I'd suggest if you're having that much of an issue with it to spec your character for more speed. I've run down both characters easily with Valkyrie, Berserker, Warden, Conquerer and hilariously Lawbringer. Lawbringer is so broken it's not even funny, You can run down anyone with a Lawbringer.

FabulousManStar
02-16-2017, 11:13 PM
So you want to nerf the squishy character's speed? I get maybe orochi but PK literally has nothing else going for it. I'd suggest if you're having that much of an issue with it to spec your character for more speed. I've run down both characters easily with Valkyrie, Berserker, Warden, Conquerer and hilariously Lawbringer. Lawbringer is so broken it's not even funny, You can run down anyone with a Lawbringer.

By "run down" do you mean chain stagger with running attacks? Because that's not what I'm talking about. Sure you can spam running attacks if they are close and decide to book it, but at the distances at which you spawn from each other, you won't reach them if they decide to run, and any speedster with half a brain would just roll through your attack anyways. There are other squishy characters that don't have the fast speeds, zerk and nobu for example. And if you think Pk "literally has nothing else going for it" (quite the opposite of my PK experience) I'd suggest actual combat buffs and less cheese stats.

ipm204
02-16-2017, 11:16 PM
It depends. When I play the slower Warlord and I'm fighting a Peacekeeper, it's hard to block their lunge attacks because they don't reveal their strike direction until the last possible moment, and the Warlord is too slow to respond quick enough. Even using the full shield guard to protect all areas of attack isn't too helpful, they will just grab you and stab you a few quick times to cause a bleeding affect. Te Warlord has some lunge attacks of his own, but the PeaceKeepers side step is way faster so it never lands unless they don't move. I could grab on to them and do a light attack, but any heavy attack is to slow, even after a grab, by the time the heavy attack is finishes, the peacekeeper has recovered and lunged away. It's frustrating fighting these characters with a slow fighter. I know the Warlord hits HARD, and the Peacekeepers armor is weak, so if it does land it will cause serious damage, but the chances of that happening is if the Peacekeeper is a noob.

Gnarxly
02-16-2017, 11:20 PM
Nobushi and Berserker are pretty damn fast spammage classes too. Not far behind Orochi and PK...

lebannen247
02-16-2017, 11:22 PM
Simple, attach sprinting to stamina and dodges.

FabulousManStar
02-17-2017, 12:03 AM
Simple, attach sprinting to stamina and dodges.

This would not fix anything, unless you had faster sprints drain stamina fast as well. And there would be secondary effects of stamina drain on dodges too. The "simple" fix is to have all characters have the same, or very similar, speeds.

ipm204
02-17-2017, 12:11 AM
Simple, attach sprinting to stamina and dodges.

Good idea, that would force these speedsters to use strategy and tactics. If Ubisoft isn't going to give the slower classes some type of temporary speed boost to even the odds in these battles, they might as well slow down the speedsters temporarily by adding stamina cost to the mechanics they abuse...
- Dodging.
- Running.
- Lunging.
These are their constant tactics. They can dodge everything because the attacks from the Warlord are too slow and have minimal range. They lunge attack without revealing their attack direction (PK), they run until their stamina regenerates, then do it all over again.

Delectable_Sin
02-17-2017, 12:15 AM
TS, you're talking about a game mode where gear stats matter, so people are purposefully using gear that maxes their run speed. Dominion is about capping points, so of course people are going to play like cowards and just run around like crazy. If you don't like that, max out your run speed as well.

PlagueGripes
02-17-2017, 12:22 AM
The faster classes in general have a lot more lead in doing just about anything. Despite being the archtypical power fantasy of the glass cannon, there's not a lot of downside to making a fatal error as an assassin. A Lawbringer isn't going to one shot kill you if you run at him with an Orochi spamming lights. You'll just take about 15% damage while he takes 20%.

arcticnerd
02-17-2017, 12:44 AM
I think the power up's in the Elimination mode is a big part of the problem. It's too easy for a fast character to run off and get buffs before anyone can stop them. Remove them and you will make it much more balanced.

Sirrkas
02-17-2017, 12:51 AM
When I play the slower Warlord and I'm fighting a Peacekeeper, it's hard to block their lunge attacks because they don't reveal their strike direction until the last possible moment,

There is nothing easier, than to know, from where the lunge attacks come from. They allways come from the side, they are lunging to. PK moves left? Block left. PK moves right? Block right. PK jumps towards you? Block up.

I probably shouldn´t tell you that, because I will also play characters like PK and Valkyre after I leveled the Lawbringer a bit, but it is unlikely, that I will ever meet you on the field.

ipm204
02-17-2017, 02:50 AM
Thanks god we got...IRON FCKING LUNGS! Now we can run even without stamina :D

Besides. 1) They will introduce stamina for runing to all classes. Which is bad. Cause if he starts to run, and you start to run and he is faster...you won't catch him either. Cause you are both out of stamina and there is no reason for assassins to have higher cost than LAWBRINGER or guy in full metal plate right?

2) Only assassins will get this somehow. Now we will have nobushi runners, and warden runners. Thx god we wont have shugoki runner.

So...its pointless.

It won't be pointless. The assassins will be caught bc they assault like crazy and drain their stamina, then run to recover. If running cost stamina, they would be caught up to bc the guy they were running from wasn't draining stamina during the speedsters crazy assault, so they WILL be able to run. If stamina was more of s factor, these speedsters wouldn't be able to do this constantly. I'm all for them having an advantage in speed, but damn, put a drain on that stamina. It's rediculous.

ipm204
02-17-2017, 02:56 AM
There is nothing easier, than to know, from where the lunge attacks come from. They allways come from the side, they are lunging to. PK moves left? Block left. PK moves right? Block right. PK jumps towards you? Block up.

I probably shouldn´t tell you that, because I will also play characters like PK and Valkyre after I leveled the Lawbringer a bit, but it is unlikely, that I will ever meet you on the field.

Maybe you shouldn't have lol, the only class I had trouble with was just exposed lol thanks.

FabulousManStar
02-17-2017, 04:52 AM
I feel like a lot of people aren't quite understanding things. Removing power-ups from elimination will still allow speedsters to run and 2v1 your allies, or get revives, and they'd still have the edge in dominion. Stacking speed gear also is not the answer, as a speedster can do this as well, and you still end up behind. Stamina costs would affect everyone and leave us right where we started but with a new annoying mechanic the game doesn't need.

For reference, there are no "slow" characters. A Warlord and a Berserker sprint at the same speed. We don't need to have two extra special characters out of the whole roster who magically get to move faster than everyone else.

Just normalize their speeds. It won't affect their combat prowess, it'll just stop them from cheesing.

Te_Wheke
02-17-2017, 05:41 AM
They are faster because they have less armour and take more damage though, plus heavies and vanguards are generally better at fighting 1v2.

I_am_a_robot
02-17-2017, 07:33 AM
the issue i have with assassins is that they can light attack all day without going out of stamina and its not possible to block in the right direction for all attacks when you receive 25 in 10 seconds and of course you cant throw a light attack of your own because youre too slow... i wouldnt say theyre OP but some adjustment needed. either less HP, less defense, less speed, less stamina or less damage. or a tiny bit of a few of those things. or light attacks and dodges cost more stam for all heroes would probably solve the problem without all the assassins QQing

sinfulomnicide
02-17-2017, 07:41 AM
Movement speed is not the issue.

Vikings have the most stupidest attack speed ever and i play as an Orochi.

I want you to test this with a friend just to prove this point. Play as an Orochi and get a viking to spam left or right Light attacks. Then get a perfect block an attack and try light attacking them. Their attack will beat you in speed.

I can get a perfect block on a Viking and try going in for a LIGHT attack and their light attack will always beat mine to the punch. And I am supposed to be the speedster here.

It makes no sense that I can get a perfect block and try to punish them but their light attack beats mine.

Moin-Ya
02-17-2017, 07:46 AM
Ofcourse not, you have different classes with different stats, PK and Oro don't have the best defense nor the most damage but their speed and agility makes up for that, the heavyweights deal massive damage and have a good portion of life but are very slow and than you have your mid-range classes which are well balanced, I played almost every single Hero and like in all games I go with a speedster but try all to check out the balancing and to know what I am up against but some people are godlike in this game and others are still mastering it and that is what makes the difference.

VinDieseII69
02-17-2017, 08:12 AM
Now you want to nerf the speed because pk and orochi can outrun you? they have the lowest defense and dmg and their speed balances them out..go find something else to complain about..this game isnt for you

FabulousManStar
02-17-2017, 08:24 AM
All of you talking about "assassins" must be a little mixed up. Berserker is an assassin too remember? Moves at normal speed, same hp as Oro and PK, no better "defense." And save the combat balance talk for another thread, that has no bearing here. We are talking specifically about 2 classes being able to run away and the unfair cheesy advantage that gives them, outside normal combat. Stop trying to derail my thread lol.

Anyways I have yet to read any convincing argument that favors these two characters getting special treatment. Again, bringing their speed in line with everyone elses wouldn't hurt their fighting capabilities (which could be changed anyways if they REALLY needed it [protip: PK and Oro definitely don't need help right now]), and would reduce cheesy cancer tactics in this game. The only real downside would be the forums being flooded with PK/Oro tears for a couple weeks. This will make the game better in the long run.

zkorejo
02-17-2017, 08:31 AM
I have a better solution. Ubi, just f'n delete PK from existence. Kill her completely and pretend like she never was a part of the game. They already killed her three stab combo, heavily reduced poison damage, has a rdiculously low health, cant block for more than 3 seconds in one direction. All she has left is her speed. So why not just get rid of her completely and be done with it?

VinDieseII69
02-17-2017, 08:32 AM
the issue i have with assassins is that they can light attack all day without going out of stamina and its not possible to block in the right direction for all attacks when you receive 25 in 10 seconds and of course you cant throw a light attack of your own because youre too slow... i wouldnt say theyre OP but some adjustment needed. either less HP, less defense, less speed, less stamina or less damage. or a tiny bit of a few of those things. or light attacks and dodges cost more stam for all heroes would probably solve the problem without all the assassins QQing

I always play pk and they cant light attack all day without running out of stamina..where are you getting this from? i think you always get your *** beat by pk's simply because you suck

sinfulomnicide
02-17-2017, 08:34 AM
I always play pk and they cant light attack all day without running out of stamina..where are you getting this from? i think you always get your *** beat by pk's simply because you suck

I dont think he realizes that there are Items that reduce the stamina consumption of attacks. They could literally be decks out with items that help them attack more frequently.

FabulousManStar
02-17-2017, 08:36 AM
Remove the ****ing buff in 4v4 Elimination and the Problem is resolve.

Again (again again), this would reduce the issue, but not remove it. You will still get cheesy speedsters who just book it at the start of a round and get a good amount of time 2v1 against your ally before you catch up. Also speedsters getting revives unhindered because they can run to a downed teammate, and sit there holding the button before you catch up.

I should point out, I'm totally fine with people bailing at the start of a round to go 2v1 your teammate, it's not my style but the option is fine. Them reaching your teammate long before you can show up and make things even is not okay however. Let's just make things even guys it's not that hard.

FabulousManStar
02-18-2017, 04:42 AM
Another thing people don't realize is the advantage that you get in any game mode with a respawn. Faster sprint speed = back in the action faster. A team with more speedsters will always get a quick points lead in dominion, and their players will be able to re-enter combat faster too.

And if you want to gear for sprint speed in hopes of being able to chase, that's fine, but remember they can do the same things and still be ahead. Or if the stat bonuses from gear are % based they'll be even further ahead.