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View Full Version : There is no reason to play aggressive.



Mothsinger
02-15-2017, 08:33 PM
If I learned anything from the numerous hours I spend in the closed alpha, closed beta, open beta and now release version, there is one big flaw the entire fightingsytem of this game has. It took my long enough, unfortunatly, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who noticed. But the more time you spend in 1v1 scenarious, the more clear it becomes.

Attacking is bad.

... be it 1v1 or 2v1. The aspect, this game should actually shine in.

Every offensive act is able to either be blocked, parried, dodged, deflected and countered, be it a light attack, a heavy attack, something unblockable, even the guardbreak or cc abilites. The tool to break a defensive player like this, the guardbreak, is actually too easy to telegraph and counter.
There is literally no reason to not be waiting for the opponent to strike first and punish his attempt. Your defensive ability is always rewarded, even going for a revenge mode, as long as you block, making 2v1 against heavies not a good choice at all.
Assassins are the worst when it comes to this. Classes, you would say, are designed to be offensive. They have their deflect, which allows them to immediatly do powerful counters. All of them can sidedodge and attack, making attempts like shield- or shoulderbashing futile. The Lawbringer is designed around punishing. His offensive abilities are extremly limited, but even after a normal block he can shove and punish the enemy.

My suggestions:

- Unblockable Deflect attacks should be taken out.
- Unblockable attacks should also be unparryable (but maybe a bit slower), forcing the defensive player to give up their position.
- Sidedodge Attacks should be a bit slower and not as easy to connect.
- Parry should not lead to extreme counters, such as guardbreak combos. It should be more like a reset for the distance of the fighters, throwing the attacker far away.
- The throw after a guardbreak, should be telegraphed and able to counter, reseting the distance aswell.
- Guardbreak... should not be counterable.

I know, this sounds very harsh. BUT, as mentioned, it's the only "reliable" tool to break trough defense. It should be something the defensive player is actually very afraid off.
"When I get too close and you're not attacking, I'm gonna guardbreak you and punish." But how does the punishing look like?
How it is now, you can either throw or do an attack. Most light attacks come through, heavies can be blocked. It should stay like this. (With the exception of the throw of course...) So, the defensive player has to take the damage of at least one light attack. When something unblockable comes, he should be able to dodge out just in time.
For how useful the guardbreak now actually is, it should cost a lot of stamina. At least half the bar, so that the aggresive player can't do too many combos right after.

I hope these suggestions are not too offensive or something... but as how the current game is, it shouldn't stay like that.

Mothsinger
02-15-2017, 08:48 PM
while your premise is correct, your suggestions are just bad. you should play some fighting games and see how their mechanics works.
gb without counter? yeah. no.
The guardbreak in this game comes close to a throw in normal fighting games. It's pretty hard to counter and does moderate damage, allowing the offense to do more combos or bring some distance between both fighters. However, this is not a regular fighting game. It has rather slow attacks and short chains. In an usual fighting game, a succesfull opening followed by a combo is extremly hard to interrupt. In For Honor you can parry in the middle of a chain, if your timing is right.
So. How else?

No it wouldn't, because it would cost a lot of stamina. However, it would assure that the defense is not sitting on their butt all the time and actually attack once in a while.

TheBadMan_
02-15-2017, 08:53 PM
not so stupid.. if u can counter guard break with light, then why can you counter guard break with guard break... thats too much and pointless failsafe for sorry slacking scrubs that cant pvp

Mothsinger
02-15-2017, 09:17 PM
because unlike most fighting games, this game has instant kills with throws.
Thats why I suggested that a throw, after a guardbreak, should be a way slower attempt, clearly telegraphed and counterable, doing the same as the counter gb now, pushing the enemy back.
And yes, you can counter a gb with a light attack, because attacks have always priority over guardbreak. Guardbreaks are pretty quick, you need to smell it to cancel it with a light attack.
That would lead to the defensive player guessing, because if he attacks and the offense is actually NOT guardbreaking, they'll just block. The defense is forced to do something, as intended.