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View Full Version : Throwing people off ledges is way too easy to abuse.



vAshes2Ashesv
02-15-2017, 06:10 PM
Yeah it pretty much seems to be a Sumo Wrestling game rather than sword fighting at the moment. Throwing people off edges is too accessible as a tactic and makes for a boring easy cheesy cheap kill. I even get bored when I chuck people off the edge when I have to.

-inb4 it's easy to stay away from edges just get gooder kid

>actually not when you're doing a 2v2 or a 1v1 where the place is literally limited to a bridge, and it's whoever can press x and x again in a direction the fastest. Also people who can't fight for a toffee in the game wait at ledges specifically to throw you off, and if you don't go to them they'll just sit on the ledge waiting. Boring.

JonYurBz
02-15-2017, 06:22 PM
I agree. Why do we even have weapons at this point? Don't think ubi thought this all the way thru. That or the people testing the game at ubi didn't abuse this mechanic. Wasn't like this in every match in the alpha and beta. Official release it is 9 out of 10 matches end this way. Sooooo fun. Go figure the masses are abusing an easy win move but it's really cause we just suck right?! Funny when these players are forced to fight it doesn't go so well sometimes....We will see if anything happens.

Fuzzybutts
02-15-2017, 06:34 PM
Mechanics revolving counters to guard breaks would need some sort of adjustment, as does the threshhold for when the game decides you should fall.

Playing shugoki and using their gb->heavy golf swing move has kinda showed the rediculously low threshhold for sending someone off a ledge. It appears if someone is knocked down and a single part of their body is off the edge, their ****ed.

Ledges-throws could be fixed easily with the addition of some sort of 'hold on for dear life' mechanic along with making it less easy to get in a guard break.. that and fixing the whole 'if a single hair on your head is off the ledge there goes the rest of you.

In the games current state, its far, far too easy to get guard break followups. It doesn't matter, given eventually one will make it through, I've seen gb even somehow go through light/heavy/unblockable attacks on occasion, so attacking into them doesn't even work 100% of the time.

InstalockHanzo
02-15-2017, 07:46 PM
I also agree. Too many times do people just sit next to ledges and ONLY try to throw me off without ever throwing an attack. They need to adjust the maps where there isn't as many places to throw someone off because right now there's a place every 2 pixels.

trikster77
02-15-2017, 08:12 PM
Yeah I never go near ledges anymore no point turn the duel into a shoving match to see who can out GB the other VERY BORING.

SendRickPics
02-15-2017, 11:51 PM
Combat in any day and age revolves around taking account for environmental hazards. I'll agree that the Guard Break and counter Guard Break mechanic is sluggish and kind of broken right now however the ability to throw people over a ledge, or into fire, or into sharp walls is all and all an amazing feature of the game.

Instead of trying to fight a Shugoki head on as a Peacekeeper, I'd do myself better by using the environment to my advantage to eliminate him quickly rather than play risky and whittle him down inch by inch whereas he can knock me out in just a couple of strikes.

MrClownE
02-16-2017, 12:03 AM
Learn to dodge, learn to CGB.

Egotistic_Ez
02-16-2017, 12:33 AM
I think it's more bad map design than bad mechanics. Point C on that giant statue map is insane, you are literally forced to stand in range of either one of 9 ledges or a wall of spikes.

Normally if you get out positioned and then GBed it's your fault, but on some maps missing a single gb is instant death.

Nexuss94
02-16-2017, 12:54 AM
The amount you can just throw people off a ****ing ledge is so boring like make a map for 1v1 thats just a field so it dont turn into a gb throw off ledge fest literally ur map design for this game is w ank

Eji1700
02-16-2017, 01:18 AM
I don't the game works well at all if the classes who need environmental kills can't do what they need.

That said I think what may need to be done is a general buff to GB, but then a nerf to actually throwing. Making the GB much faster and harder to tech, but allowing a tech window/guess for teching the throw itself might help a lot with balancing two of the bigger issues with the game right now. Games like SC which have ringouts usually have some way to help deal with it (in sc you guess 50/50 on throw breaks, but you'll almost always break the ring out throw near the edge to be safe), so adding that level of depth could solve a lot of problems.

FacePunchThor
02-16-2017, 05:11 AM
Don't stand with your back to a ledge and git gud

Ravenskov
02-16-2017, 06:11 AM
Simple solution

-Press the Square/X button in time...

l_Azure_l
02-16-2017, 06:20 AM
I think it's more bad map design than bad mechanics. Point C on that giant statue map is insane, you are literally forced to stand in range of either one of 9 ledges or a wall of spikes.

Normally if you get out positioned and then GBed it's your fault, but on some maps missing a single gb is instant death.

Yeah, some maps are just ridiculous. Like 1v1 map with the wooden bridge. Come on I know it's cool that we can push people off the ledge but doesn't have to shove right into our faces like that. Though I'm agree only on map design. The game play wise it's fine and so easy to counter.

piepgras.JEW
02-16-2017, 06:25 AM
Combat in any day and age revolves around taking account for environmental hazards. I'll agree that the Guard Break and counter Guard Break mechanic is sluggish and kind of broken right now however the ability to throw people over a ledge, or into fire, or into sharp walls is all and all an amazing feature of the game.
GB still doesn't make any sense. If someone pushes you, you won't just go 'Oh well, better keep stumbling towards my doom. Abandon all hope.'. I agree it's nice to be able to use the environment, but being instantly murdered by leaning up a single spike after a fat guy runs past you or my head weighing enough to drag my entire body over the edge is just boring and too easy to abuse. Earlier today i went 20-0 in a match by simply abusing this.

Vault_Traveler
02-16-2017, 07:38 AM
Well to be honest if he isnt equipped with full throw distance items its not that far he can throw you.

Also staying near ledges makes enemy players so unbelievable nervous its hilerious the cant concentrate anymore and cant block anymore.

Try it its super fun.

SendRickPics
02-16-2017, 11:17 AM
GB still doesn't make any sense. If someone pushes you, you won't just go 'Oh well, better keep stumbling towards my doom. Abandon all hope.'. I agree it's nice to be able to use the environment, but being instantly murdered by leaning up a single spike after a fat guy runs past you or my head weighing enough to drag my entire body over the edge is just boring and too easy to abuse. Earlier today i went 20-0 in a match by simply abusing this.

See it's a difference in philosophy. Where you see "boring" and "abusive", I see "intelligent" and "creative".
Also if you get pushed, depending on your center of gravity, you might actually stumble towards your doom. But that's neither here nor there.
Without this mechanic and the ability to do such things taken into map design, you'd quite easily find assassin and hybrid characters at the mercy of heavies with large HP pools as well as Vanguards.


Well to be honest if he isnt equipped with full throw distance items its not that far he can throw you.
Also staying near ledges makes enemy players so unbelievable nervous its hilerious the cant concentrate anymore and cant block anymore.
Try it its super fun.

This is true. Nothing makes an opponent more nervous and lacking in confidence than fighting near a ledge. After one or two deaths by spikes or ledges, my opponents know to not engage me anywhere near such hazards. That's when I start throwing them into fire! :D

AlphaMaleNo1
03-01-2017, 11:12 PM
This is so annoying Ill seriously stay away from any expansions untill they fix it. Why all the awesome and deep melee when every map is an 80% instant death area with generous "push and fall" zones ? It's cool to do such things but only when they are rare and in between the meat and bone of the game which is melee!

PendragonArtura
03-01-2017, 11:30 PM
Guys, when someone try to gb you in front of a cliff, and if you counter, HE will fall.
Just learn how to counter and the grabber will be punished by himself

Munktor
03-01-2017, 11:53 PM
Got ledge problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a CGB aint one.

IceD34ler
03-02-2017, 11:32 AM
To be honest, in most of my 1vs1 games the opposite player often runs to a safe place (and I do too) intentionally even if he is a heavy with insane throw distance. Just to have a fair fight since we both hate those traps. I don't know what the devs thought when they placed so many lethal traps in the level, it's just totally stupid. In 2on2 even more so, I mean, once 2 players gang up on you and spam GB just to throw you off is just silly...

GenLiu
03-02-2017, 12:57 PM
To be honest, in most of my 1vs1 games the opposite player often runs to a safe place (and I do too) intentionally even if he is a heavy with insane throw distance. Just to have a fair fight since we both hate those traps. I don't know what the devs thought when they placed so many lethal traps in the level, it's just totally stupid. In 2on2 even more so, I mean, once 2 players gang up on you and spam GB just to throw you off is just silly...
I'm agree with that, the problem isn't the GB and it never been. The real problem is how dev designed some levels in 1v1 and 2v2. It seems like there is a tight bridge on every maps (or pretty so) which is a very bad idea, not only because it becomes a race of the first who make the other fall (everyone is aware that you can knock someone off without GBing him/her right?) but it also create some insane match up advantage/disadvantage.

For example, assassins are walking dead on a bridge and Warden or Nobushi are king/queen...

Yatagarasu-san
03-02-2017, 01:01 PM
Or ... Add some sort of order/reward for completing duel on risky map without envirnomental kill :P Orders sounds better imho

GenLiu
03-02-2017, 07:36 PM
Or ... Add some sort of order/reward for completing duel on risky map without envirnomental kill :P Orders sounds better imho

Not a bad idea at all, like extra loot or xp/steel if you didn't use the environment. I still prefer a rework of the maps though, as I don't think "punishing" someone for exploiting a game mechanic is the right way to go. Again, it's a good idea and definitely the one that requires the less work for Ubi but it wouldn't fix the problem entirely I think.

Besides, it wouldn't fix the problem with the match up. For example the Nobushi isn't good on a bridge because she's good at throwing peoples off the ledge (she's actually terrible for that task) but because a good 8O% of her attack hit in front of her and her tactic is based on keeping her opponent away (a nightmare for an assassins who needs room to move around their opponents).

SeeNoWeevil
03-02-2017, 08:15 PM
Mash light attacks, beats GB. When your opponent gets tired of blocking with their face and starts blocking, GB them off instead.