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View Full Version : Dear for honor gamers..... NERF THIS AND NERF THAT....?!



CeIasun
02-15-2017, 09:20 AM
Dear gamers, ...

Before I go into more detail on what I want to indicate, I would like to introduce myself. My gamer name is Celasun. I apologies if my English is not entirely correct. After having followed the forms for a while I won't to point out to the people who are complaining in the wrong way. To Stop with this nonsens. If you don't like the game just move on, Nobody is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to play. (For the people who are reading this to buy the game, I recommend it.)

If i can speak for myself I want to point out that I sinsire like the concept of the game of course we all noticed its has it's flaws. but wich game has't, letst be honest here. The balance may be not quite to the point with certain things, or the mechanics or not working properly. But with screaming NERF THIS AND NERF THAT, it's not going to make it better. I say this olso with the future in mind on the long term. I myself played ESO online a lot in the past, that game got olso ruined by nerfing this and that. We can't make every body happy here and let me point out this game has a steep learling curf if you don't like it just move on, then this game isn't for you if you like it but find it difficult just practice thats all I can say. Eventuely certain things will get balanced or repaired.

To be clear I'am not saying to SUT YOUR mount Completely, if you wan't to point something out do it on a constructive way. Feedback is Always a good thing. Stop acting like a spoiled child.


With best regards....

westcurry
02-15-2017, 09:50 AM
It's mostly the casual playerbase complaining. Instead of nerf this, nerf that they should be shouting BUFF THIS and BUFF THAT. Trying to keep a balance by taking away options and nerfing mechanics and characters never makes for a fun experience. Instead they should aim to balance with buffs, giving characters options, tools.

VTheMan032
02-15-2017, 10:07 AM
Dear Celasun,

Before I go into the point I want to make , I would also like to introduce myself. My name is V.
I have played the closed and open BETA's of this game, and while they have listened to some of the feedback, the fact of the matter is that with the change made, with no notes , the game is a lot slower and considerably more sluggish.

People are asking for nerfs/buffs because they are needed, PK's were OP to the point of ridiculousness in the BETA, the Devs took it to hearth and nerfed it a bit too much. Consistent and repeated feedback(I.E. Crying NERF THIS AND NERF THAT) is the only way to make sure the issues are addressed. Things like throw charges into GB spam, into assassin gank squads just running around the map literally spamming light attacks and overwhelming people. While a lot of the mechanics are counterable being moved 30 feet and tossed into a pit by an attacker coming from your blind side is not healthy for the game.

We are all ready starting to see trends appear in the community, people are making map kills their primary source of combat, and with a system like "art of war" being advertised as heavily, and being the core of the PC's interaction with the game, the idea of being cheesed is certainly not intended. The "Git Good" argument is completely invalid here as no title is balanced around competitive play. If that is the case you would have 300 people playing the game and the rest of us plebs watching from the sidelines, it is besides the point. Imagine if Star Craft 2 was balanced around Korean Tournament levels of play? It would have died in a month.

As for the topic of asking people to "move on"... well hello there, A lot of people PURCHASED this PRODUCT, and are CONSUMERS of the said PRODUCT, I am one such person that has followed the development of this game with great interest, and while I am improving and learning to play it is apparent that it has glaring flaws that need to be addressed, most of the issues I do have are with the community, but the development team is the enabling factor here.

You may not "agree" with the way people are reporting feedback, and that's entirely within your right, but trying to tell people how to voice their opinions and in which regard is just... well dangerous, pretentious even. Fact of the matter is , a large number of people is not satisfied with the product they bought, or have ideas that can change/improve the product and as such are voicing their opinions, in one way or another, It's how the free market works... Don't like it? Go back to shuffling coal in Siberia..... Funny how you can end a post reeking with self entitlement and self righteousness with "Stop acting like a spoiled child".... I love you internet....

All the best,

Jarnhand
02-15-2017, 10:38 AM
Dear CeIasun

I have played computer games since the 80s, PvP games since the 90s, and PvP MMOs since 2001.

There are many types of gamers, here are a couple:

Young try-harders:
This group of players are often good at shooters/PvP games, but many of them will never admit such and such class is either OP or UP, and usually comments from this group is 'git gud' etc, even if they secretly rage and are doing bad at the game. Many of them have selfesteem problems, and use games to feel better about themselves, and often play the most OP class there is, and this is NOT by coincidence. They come on game forums trying to look pro and cool, no matter how they are doing in the game, secretly defending the OP classes (they are playing) by posting comments like 'git gud' and often basing their experience on ganking new players etc, and NOT by fighting the good players. They will also almost never post any proof (like videos) or constructive feedback or reasons for why they are doing good on a gimped class, which they state they are doing. And when they do post tactics or videos, you can easily see its stuff that only work vs worse players then themselves and would not work vs a good class played well, and videos of them playing against clearly worse players, or people that do misstakes that looses the game/match/duel. You will almost never see this group of players post videos of them playing AND winning on a underpowered class vs a good player on another class when the other player is playing the other class good.

The real pros/good players:
A really good player will see imbalances where there are, and when they play any class they will play them good, even the underpowered classes. And yes a truly pro/good player will even do good on a gimped class, its just that they will also do FAR better on a OP/good class, obviously. Yes some of these will also come across as trolls on the forums with 'git gud' comments, but they can also back up their claims by proof of them doing good on 'any' class.

You can decide which group you are in... Point is; there ARE the need for balances in this game right now, keeping a game unbalanced over time kills it from the inside.

PS! I am not in any of these groups, I am more laid-back neither pro or bad player, but I play my games with dedication and with the goal of making the games I like better by feedback and not acting toxic or posting on forums with hidden agendas.

Timjan
02-15-2017, 11:19 AM
The issue is that players do not take time to learn, adapt and figure things out on them self. Same with other games.

The thing is, Im pretty sure many goes to dominion, then they think they are experienced fighting duels cause they killed a few people by hacking them in the back.
They loose 1vs1 duels hard, and believe all other champs then what they play is OP.

I will say this: It was a very very long time since I had such a balanced game.
And then I really hate noob zerkers that keeps hammering when stamina is out, and probably winning 70% of low elo fights, Oroshis spamming attacks, and its working, cause when out of stamina they still hit faster then most. Raiders winning duels using their zone attack, unblockable, cause vs inexperience its a free win, I lost to it before I sat down and figured out how to parry, at which point they was punished so hard they left.
Stuff like this, but this is NOT op, its you as a player that are inexperienced to deal with it.

And I think I just nailed it right there.
The amount of people I faced earlier that spammed attacks hoping for the best.
Hell I even see decent players that know that spamming light attacks on a super fast attack champion will almost guarantee a win, Orochi is a perfect example.

Thing is when that tactic dont work and they face someone that have timing to a T down, or the range of Nobushi, they will cry for nerfs.
They ask for Nerfs cause they are not able to button mash themself to victory.

This game needs no balane changes so far, it should be out for a while first.

The only champ I feel stand above the others, apart from my dear Warden, is Orochi.
Warden takes skill to get off combos, and timing, Orochi truly can spam to victory.
Its a reason there are incredibly many of them in the 1vs1 area.
But do they need a nerf? Hell no, its just me needing to get my block more timed and learn to play better. I beat many orochis but I also am defeated by orochis more then any other class in the game. If its a good Orochi its incredibly difficult matchup for my warden, but all I need is one combo chain and I win the match, they need to poke me for a good while.

Anyway, always people shouting nerfs.
Ok in MMOs with blatant obvious imbalances.
This game have no blatant imbalances.

Im so extremly pleased to see a solid balance across the boards.

its not so much that some champs are better then others, but some champs are suited to different people, how to think.

You want to play Peacekeeper or berserker, but you have slow reflexes and bad timing. Just be honest to yourself, I for sure dont have zip reflexes, I win my games from capitalizing on enemy mistakes, : Why do you pick champions that you as a person might not be able to truly play.

Some champions in this game are hyper complex, Orochi comes to mind, it can be a button masher to victory class using light attacks, or it have by FAR the flashiest moves and coolest stuff I so far have encountered. I faced some deadly good Orochis that utilized their entire kit, which I forced them to or they are done and dusted.
But it was so fun to see when someone learned their champ so well in such a short time and manage to time it all in.

Play ONE class, MAX TWO.
Stick to this rule until your very very good and beat 90% of your opponents on same class, the rest of 10% will be equal or top players.
But 90% hands down is not hard in a game where people mix classes. I have yet to find a warden that beats me, but Im mid elo, I know I will get my *** down vs high top level wardens, or well, I know him well, still Im pretty sure I loose. Thats ok,

Tired in general of people shouting nerf this nerf that in games before they truly learned the game.
Also sad to see how developers in so many games listen to the cries on forums.

For Honor have spot on class balance, a few tweaks here and there. Raider seems to need a buff but, I think personally he is very strong and balanced as he is.
If we have a raider main that is at high level say he is slightly lack luster, thats ok.

Rants out, get back to work guys.
See you on the battlefield.

And stop crying nerfs.
Instead open the bloody training hall, practice, get better.

Knight_Raime
02-15-2017, 11:25 AM
You have to learn to seperate the causal complaints from the competitive complaints.
As far as i'm aware the majority of the competitive complaints are about the actual mechanics (specifically things like parry, GB, and feinting)
some are saying valk feels pretty weak. but that's it.

Jarnhand
02-15-2017, 11:58 AM
*SNIP' .

Didnt read it all in detail, but yes, you nail some of the issues here. For example that a player able to parry and counter-guardbreak will wipe the floor with the Raider class, while new player will yell NERF (most likely why the Raider is so bad right now, and as far as I know the worst win stats). Just do not forget that the game cannot be only balanced with a pro gamer in mind, leading to all classes are difficult to master.


You have to learn to seperate the causal complaints from the competitive complaints.
As far as i'm aware the majority of the competitive complaints are about the actual mechanics (specifically things like parry, GB, and feinting)
some are saying valk feels pretty weak. but that's it.

I am pretty sure most of that group of players will also admit Raiders are currently in the low tier, and most wins are vs people that do not parry and are new to the game.

Knight_Raime
02-15-2017, 12:03 PM
Didnt read it all in detail, but yes, you nail some of the issues here. For example that a player able to parry and counter-guardbreak will wipe the floor with the Raider class, while new player will yell NERF (most likely why the Raider is so bad right now, and as far as I know the worst win stats). Just do not forget that the game cannot be only balanced with a pro gamer in mind, leading to all classes are difficult to master.



I am pretty sure most of that group of players will also admit Raiders are currently in the low tier, and most wins are vs people that do not parry and are new to the game.

Yeah lots agree the raider feels weak. forgot to mention that. and yes. generally most wins (especially mine) come from players who are not able to tech a GB or let themselves get parried.

Stankyfoot
02-15-2017, 02:06 PM
Its really driving me up a wall. My favourite thing is people talking about "High Level Play"; the game is on its second day of release, between the Alphas and Betas the most dedicated fan has only had a couple weeks with the game. Nobody is good at ANYTHING after a just a week, they only think so because of how they are relative to other new players.

It took me a year of practice before I became a truly elite player at UFC Undisputed 3. For Honor may not have that sort of depth where you learn game changing tactics 8 months after playing the game every day, but its deep enough that it requires far more time than people are giving it.

Osanger
02-15-2017, 02:44 PM
Its really driving me up a wall. My favourite thing is people talking about "High Level Play"; the game is on its second day of release, between the Alphas and Betas the most dedicated fan has only had a couple weeks with the game. Nobody is good at ANYTHING after a just a week, they only think so because of how they are relative to other new players.

It took me a year of practice before I became a truly elite player at UFC Undisputed 3. For Honor may not have that sort of depth where you learn game changing tactics 8 months after playing the game every day, but its deep enough that it requires far more time than people are giving it.

Not necessarily at all mate, you are talking as if the people coming into this game have never played a fighting game before. Many of the core concepts use in a plethora of fighting games are present in For Honor i.e dodgeing, counters and teching. So many of those people who have experience with fighting games only have to learn really what is unique to this game over ones they have already played and of course when and where to apply those skills.

Here's where my experience is drawn from;

Feinting/Baiting: Largley from playing chivalrey since it a total must in dueling

Zoneing: Chivalrey/Tekken/SF4

Dodging/Countering:Chivalry/Tekken

Teching:SF4/Tekken

Mix up Game:Chiv/Tekken/SF4


Is all the above assumed knowledge to the average player buying this game, probably not, therefore someone who has that for mentioned knowledge and is familiar with the above skill sets, which are all present in FH is going to be vastly more skill right out of the doors than someone just picking up the game with little experience. When people are talking about "high level of play" the i would imagine that they are conversant with all of the above and more so there is absolutely a massive skill gap so much so that actually on launch it is much more obvious who the good players are over the new ones, as as the game progresses people start to bridge the gap towards the top rankings the more you play. You yourself give an example of this from your UFC days, i can guarentee you there were players as good as you finished on launch purely based on their prior gaming experience.

As to the players who are whining about the supposed lack of imbalance, that is just a classic case of the majority of them getting their asses handed to them purely due to lack of experience and knowledge of game mechanics. Happens with any serious fighting game, hell i was something like 0-30 with SF4 online until i learned how to tech throws and learn the cross up game. Did i ***** and whine, nope i opened practice mode and knuckled the **** down, put in the time and suddenly started winning.

I have high hopes for this game, been after a decent sword based combat game for a while now since Chivalry, so all the whining is actually a good sign in my book purely becuase it means there is much much more to learn with the game than the noobs realise!!!!