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View Full Version : Conquerors needs a bit of change



miks1984
02-13-2017, 12:21 PM
I main conquerors and i noticed his heavy attacks where his man damage comes from has a very slow wind up speed and easilly dodged by that infamous side step and attack of orochi, peackeeper and kensei.

I think ubisoft needs to reduce the damage output his heavies and increase its wind up speed, oh yeah dont tell me about the lights because its utter sh@t with its slow wind up speed, low reach and laughable damage. All in all I think conquerors are in a bad spot right specially and needs more tweaking. And yeah im still trying to git gud.

DerHerbman
02-13-2017, 12:33 PM
I think you should chose a different Character for you!
You didn't understand what he is doing with this his heavys! Your suggestion would result in an OP Heavy ;)
He is Blocking at the same time he winds up his heavy, that why he is slow. Also he has much more Damage and Health then the assassin classes, giving him more speed would be ridiculous.

Aarpian2
02-13-2017, 12:42 PM
I think you should chose a different Character for you!
You didn't understand what he is doing with this his heavys! Your suggestion would result in an OP Heavy ;)
He is Blocking at the same time he winds up his heavy, that why he is slow. Also he has much more Damage and Health then the assassin classes, giving him more speed would be ridiculous.

He doesn't have much more damage than anybody. He has the weakest attacks in the game, with the one exception of his charged heavy (tier 1 charge makes his heavy hit about as hard as everybody else's, tier 2 makes him hit harder than everything except Raider's top heavy, Kensei's unblockable and Berzerker's combo'd top heavy)

DerHerbman
02-13-2017, 12:54 PM
His attacks are weaker then the Assassin attacks? Are you sure? But even IF, no other Char can block and attack at the same time, so everything is fine, no need for a Buff...

miks1984
02-13-2017, 12:55 PM
I think you should chose a different Character for you!
You didn't understand what he is doing with this his heavys! Your suggestion would result in an OP Heavy ;)
He is Blocking at the same time he winds up his heavy, that why he is slow. Also he has much more Damage and Health then the assassin classes, giving him more speed would be ridiculous.

When i say wind up i meant the attack animation before he unleashes a blow. It takes him more than a second just to release an attack, its really easy to dodge. High tier assasins that ivr fought lately just tends to wait me out until i unleash an attack, if i do try to play defensively and just standing there the enemy has a wide aray of attacks to defend against and once they get neat me like really near, this is where conquerors suffer the most because of our slow attacks. The best way we can do is to parry or cancel a guard break. But by the time we manage to push them back theyve taken a good chunk of my health. I feel like conquerors are always forced to play the game whichever his enemy is giving him. I dont feel i can control the match with thr current moveset the conqueror has. Anyway i am trying to improvr my parries and gb cancels but you cant change the fact that conquerors are not as competitive as the other heroes.

Knight_Raime
02-13-2017, 01:02 PM
As a conq main i'd have to disagree heavily. It really sounds like you just don't understand him. Or maybe you do and he's just not for you. The only hero conq struggles against for sure is nobushi. assassins are a joke for the most part though save berzerker. peace keeper really can't do anything to a good conq.

miks1984
02-13-2017, 01:09 PM
As a conq main i'd have to disagree heavily. It really sounds like you just don't understand him. Or maybe you do and he's just not for you. The only hero conq struggles against for sure is nobushi. assassins are a joke for the most part though save berzerker. peace keeper really can't do anything to a good conq.

You probably havent met a peacekeeper who camps and side steps a lot or if you did you can give me tips on how to counter it anyway ll our attacks can be side stepped and attacked at the same time. Light attacks, dash guard beak and ofc heavy. Dont get me wrong, ive won some and lost some fights and after playing conqueror exclusively this open beta i guess yeah i might leave the hero for a better one, its too bad the hero has a very goof and unique design. The only thing thats keeping from leaving the conqueror is the heavy blow parry which is very satisfying to pull off.

Knight_Raime
02-13-2017, 01:31 PM
You probably havent met a peacekeeper who camps and side steps a lot or if you did you can give me tips on how to counter it anyway ll our attacks can be side stepped and attacked at the same time. Light attacks, dash guard beak and ofc heavy. Dont get me wrong, ive won some and lost some fights and after playing conqueror exclusively this open beta i guess yeah i might leave the hero for a better one, its too bad the hero has a very goof and unique design. The only thing thats keeping from leaving the conqueror is the heavy blow parry which is very satisfying to pull off.

You wait for them to do something and parry it and follow up with a GB. that works for any character.
as the conq the idea is to land your shield bashes. as a shield bash will let you pull out a light that 100% tracks and pulls you on them. Side heavies also do that most of the time. also if you charge a heavy as you move to block in the direction of the attack and let go of charging you will stun them and track for the heavy.
Sometimes that doesn't stun but the attack is blocked and the heavy goes out anyway and can still hit them it's really a question of timing.

You have to be very patient as a conq and learn to really punish their mistakes.

Aarpian2
02-13-2017, 01:39 PM
His attacks are weaker then the Assassin attacks? Are you sure? But even IF, no other Char can block and attack at the same time, so everything is fine, no need for a Buff...

His light attacks do 12 damage (less than half a bar)
PK's do 15-17
Berzerker's do 9 (combo'd) to 17
Orochi's do 15-17

Conq heavies do 20 (less than a bar)
PK's do 30-33
Berserker's do 20(combo'd) to 55
Orochi's do 25-35

EetDrinkBeBerry
02-13-2017, 05:50 PM
His light attacks do 12 damage (less than half a bar)
PK's do 15-17
Berzerker's do 9 (combo'd) to 17
Orochi's do 15-17

Conq heavies do 20 (less than a bar)
PK's do 30-33
Berserker's do 20(combo'd) to 55
Orochi's do 25-35

Conq's 2 sec charged heavy does two full bars, and is a free parry if timed right. Can also be mixed up with additional heavy, shield charge, side light attack. Pretty nasty mix up's out of it.

Aarpian2
02-13-2017, 06:00 PM
Conq's 2 sec charged heavy does two full bars, and is a free parry if timed right. Can also be mixed up with additional heavy, shield charge, side light attack. Pretty nasty mix up's out of it.

You'll also never land it vs a good player

DerHerbman
02-13-2017, 08:20 PM
When i say wind up i meant the attack animation before he unleashes a blow.
I know what you mean, you donī't understand what Iīm saying...

DerHerbman
02-13-2017, 08:24 PM
You'll also never land it vs a good player

You donīt, I do ;) Also his infinite Zone Attack is a really nasty thing...

Heīs not the weakest Attacker with great combos, especially the infinite once. The ability to block and attack at the same time make him a very dangerous character. Heīs kinda tricky to get used to, yes and he also has slow attacks, but once you know how to fight with him he's a really good fighter.

Ahmn-
02-13-2017, 10:32 PM
I main conquerors and i noticed his heavy attacks where his man damage comes from has a very slow wind up speed and easilly dodged by that infamous side step and attack of orochi, peackeeper and kensei.

I think ubisoft needs to reduce the damage output his heavies and increase its wind up speed, oh yeah dont tell me about the lights because its utter sh@t with its slow wind up speed, low reach and laughable damage. All in all I think conquerors are in a bad spot right specially and needs more tweaking. And yeah im still trying to git gud.

I think the problem with Conqueror isn't the moveset, but how it's explained.

You should NEVER wind up and swing a heavy attack at someone for no reason. It isn't made for that. What it's for is to hold until you block an attack, and then you RELEASE IT at the time you would when you would parry an attack, when the red indicator is flashing. Because your opponent it going to be recoiling from your block, your spun-up heavy WILL hit.

Now, once your enemy figures this out, the head games begin.

Will they try to come up and try to guard break you? If you can anticipate this, release the heavy attack as they try to and they'll get hit very hard.

You can also cancel your heavy attack into an all-block, letting you light attack someone who heavy attacks anticipating a parry.

You can go into a shield bash from your spun-up heavy stance, allowing you to do your heavy shield bash combo.

Seriously, tomorrow, try this out. You'll be very surprised at how well this technique works.

The downside is: You have no powerful offensive options. You are always responding/countering what your enemy does somehow, but that's a lot of classes right now. The difference with Conqueror is that when it comes to taking the first offensive action, you are worse than pretty much every other character in the game because you lack feints..

IamheiN
02-13-2017, 10:45 PM
I think the problem with Conqueror isn't the moveset, but how it's explained.

You should NEVER wind up and swing a heavy attack at someone for no reason. It isn't made for that. What it's for is to hold until you block an attack, and then you RELEASE IT at the time you would when you would parry an attack, when the red indicator is flashing. Because your opponent it going to be recoiling from your block, your spun-up heavy WILL hit.

Now, once your enemy figures this out, the head games begin.

Will they try to come up and try to guard break you? If you can anticipate this, release the heavy attack as they try to and they'll get hit very hard.

You can also cancel your heavy attack into an all-block, letting you light attack someone who heavy attacks anticipating a parry.

You can go into a shield bash from your spun-up heavy stance, allowing you to do your heavy shield bash combo.

Seriously, tomorrow, try this out. You'll be very surprised at how well this technique works.

The downside is: You have no powerful offensive options. You are always responding/countering what your enemy does somehow, but that's a lot of classes right now. The difference with Conqueror is that when it comes to taking the first offensive action, you are worse than pretty much every other character in the game because you lack feints..

Everything you said is right, but still Conqueror feels clunky to play and I really think he needs some change to make his offense slightly better. The lack of feints is a big downside and the area attack does no damage, the charged heavy is soooo predictable when playing against good players and the shield bash is a bit slow compared to headbutt.

Maybe a guaranteed hit after the first one when you connect a light top attack or something like that. His damage right now is too low and slow.

Zywroh
02-13-2017, 10:56 PM
The Conqueror isn't supposed to have everything going for it. As a heavy class, it's exactly what it needs to be: hard to kill with some useful disruption tricks up it's sleeve. Damage is balanced really, as it's not meant to be able to kill everything. I like where the class is at and think it's a wonderful one!

Aarpian2
02-14-2017, 10:27 AM
You donīt, I do ;) Also his infinite Zone Attack is a really nasty thing...

Heīs not the weakest Attacker with great combos, especially the infinite once. The ability to block and attack at the same time make him a very dangerous character. Heīs kinda tricky to get used to, yes and he also has slow attacks, but once you know how to fight with him he's a really good fighter.
No, you don't. V.S. good players you will get punished unless you get lucky enough to throw it out as they perform an action. I don't disagree that he's strong, but throwing out random charged heavies will almost certainly not end well for you.



The downside is: You have no powerful offensive options. You are always responding/countering what your enemy does somehow, but that's a lot of classes right now. The difference with Conqueror is that when it comes to taking the first offensive action, you are worse than pretty much every other character in the game because you lack feints..
Also not true. The conqueror's shield bash is one of the most potent offensive tools in the game right now as it allows him to completely bypass the parry punishes while simultaneously draining stamina and being very safe. Against a defensive player, shield bash is incredibly effective, it just falls down against aggressive players because you'll be interrupted if hit during the charge.

Conqueror doesn't need buffs unless they nerf parry.

Knight_Raime
02-14-2017, 12:17 PM
I think the problem with Conqueror isn't the moveset, but how it's explained.

You should NEVER wind up and swing a heavy attack at someone for no reason. It isn't made for that. What it's for is to hold until you block an attack, and then you RELEASE IT at the time you would when you would parry an attack, when the red indicator is flashing. Because your opponent it going to be recoiling from your block, your spun-up heavy WILL hit.

Now, once your enemy figures this out, the head games begin.

Will they try to come up and try to guard break you? If you can anticipate this, release the heavy attack as they try to and they'll get hit very hard.

You can also cancel your heavy attack into an all-block, letting you light attack someone who heavy attacks anticipating a parry.

You can go into a shield bash from your spun-up heavy stance, allowing you to do your heavy shield bash combo.

Seriously, tomorrow, try this out. You'll be very surprised at how well this technique works.

The downside is: You have no powerful offensive options. You are always responding/countering what your enemy does somehow, but that's a lot of classes right now. The difference with Conqueror is that when it comes to taking the first offensive action, you are worse than pretty much every other character in the game because you lack feints..

I find canceling with all guard to be pointless. it wastes stamina. You can just as easily dodge and it will cancel your spin up.

Aarpian2
02-14-2017, 12:25 PM
You can cancel the attack after you swing with all-guard, not just during the charging. This essentially lets you feint with it (though situations where this is useful aren't too common, since you lose the superior block on omniblock and their whiffed parry attempt will just stagger you for a chunk of stamina. It has its uses though).