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View Full Version : Defense is the best offense.



Shinimas
02-13-2017, 12:37 AM
This is another one of those "defense is too strong" threads, but I'd like to add a few things to the usual argument.

I think some characters are alright in their offense. Peacekeeper is very fast, can feint, can deliberately miss the first light to connect the second one, has a fast engage. Best PKs are the ones that get in your grill and start their mixup game, stabbing you to bits. Warden has a very quick top light couples with a very quick, far reaching zone attack. That alone is enough to put some pressure on, but there's also the fact he can cancel his shoulder charge into a guard break, meaining that you have to constantly be aware of the distance and timing of his moves, lest you have to guess the 50/50, since the cancel is too fast to react to.

That being said, not all characters have reliable offense that is difficult to punish and even a big part of the kit of the top tier classes is too dangerous to use most of the time. The reason for that is two-fold:

1. Dodging, especially on assassins. Let's say you want to feint a heavy attack to bait out a parry and do a light from another direction instead... seems like a standard feint. Except both of those strikes will get dodged and punished by an assassin. Offensive feinting and mixups suffer greatly because of the incredibly quick dodge-light some classes possess. That means your feints aren't here to open up their defenses, but to better setup your own. You feint into an assassin to bait out his dodge-light so you can parry and punish it.

2. Parrying. Using slow moves without setup in this game isn't just unlikely to succeed, which would've been fine, it's straight up suicide. Heavy attacks, big unblockables... all are reserved for hitting people lying on the floor or reeling from a wallstun, which they found themselves in after you parried and GB'd them. You trick them, lure them in and BAM, hit them with an unblockable... I suppose that was the plan? But it will never work as long as they can be parried and punished so easily.

As the game is now, simply nerfing parrying will make character that actually have good offense unstoppable. So here how it should be, in my opinion:

1. Pulling off a successful parry against a HEAVY attack should not grant a guaranteed guard break. Instead, it should halt stamina regeneration for 5 seconds, similar to Conqueror's omniblock. This will still allow to swing the fight around, but will not allow to the defender to win through defense alone. This will also mean that heavy attacks are at least not a suicidal move anymore.

2. Pulling off a successful parry against a LIGHT attack should be more punishing. Maybe longer stamina regeneration debuff, a massive stamina loss etc.

ALTERNATIVELY, parrying should be made much harder. Let's take Warden's crushing counter as an example. The parry window on that attack is very low, meaning you can to be in top stance already when the opponent attacks with his own top attack. Perhaps all parries should be made like this. Just a thought.

3. Dodging on assassins should be slightly slowed and made impossible during the exhaustion state. As it stands right now, dodging is not only very good offensively on certain characters, but it also allows exhausted assasins to just spam backdodge and recover relatively safely.

4. Blocking MUST NOT guarantee a guard break against certain characters. Berserker and Conqueror can be guard broken from having their LIGHTS blocked. This is silly.

5. Certain classes need to be buffed and nerfed. No way around it, as I see it. PK needs to be made slightly slower with her lights, Raider needs to be made slightly faster on his. PK is the main offender in this case, in my opinion. Warden's shoulder charge needs to be made un-cancelable, but sped up slightly in exchange. Conq needs... I don't know, something, he is just too slow and predictable in offense. Right now most classes, but not all, are forced to be defensive to win. If we take away their defenses, the other classes will totally take over.

A lot more can be done to fine tune the combat system to offer more offensive options, but the core of the problem is that defense is the best offense right now, unless you're a PK, and this needs to change. I'd go so far as to make unblockable attacks unparryable so you must dodge, which will make fights a lot busier and unblockables will be something you can actually use and not just feint with.

Butler96
02-13-2017, 07:19 AM
Found this in another post on here and I think he has some good suggestions:

"1) Increase chip-damage

2) Remove guaranteed GB after parry

3) To compensate for 2, because parrying should be rewarded highly (for gameplay-reasons), make next attack after parrying unblockable. This would actually result in the kinds of exchanges that are fun to have and fun to watch, parries going back and forth until someone messes up or runs out of stamina. It would also increase the importance of stamina, since you cant back out of these exchanges to regen it, without risking to get GB from your dodge.

4) Lower the stamina-cost of feints. A move that encourages high-level play and mindgames, while not hurting the new-player experience in any way and is not frustrating in any way should not be punished this severely. A move that encourages activity in a game that currently favors defence should not be punished this severely."