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View Full Version : There is no counter to dodge spam, and it ruins combat.



Velkamit
02-12-2017, 03:10 AM
I was just VS a peace keeper and Orochi combo in brawl.

I would parry and SPRINT ATTACK AFTER TO JUST REACH THEM and they would STILL dodge away.

They would attack, dodge away... I literally couldn't get to them after they dodged away no matter what. There is ZERO counter play to that.

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 03:13 AM
Guard break. It tracks dodges.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 03:21 AM
Guard break. It tracks dodges.

tried it never worked

EDIT:


and it wouldnt ever work against people doding backwars either

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 03:50 AM
I do it all the time. As do others.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 04:15 AM
I do it all the time. As do others.


Then is must be a p2p issue.

Also, if they roll backwards, you can't catch them.

DBLxxShotz
02-12-2017, 05:29 AM
I was just VS a peace keeper and Orochi combo in brawl.

I would parry and SPRINT ATTACK AFTER TO JUST REACH THEM and they would STILL dodge away.

They would attack, dodge away... I literally couldn't get to them after they dodged away no matter what. There is ZERO counter play to that.

After parry you gb not strike. Thatll put an end to it.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 05:30 AM
After parry you gb not strike. Thatll put an end to it.

still doesn't work.

DBLxxShotz
02-12-2017, 05:46 AM
still doesn't work.

Then your reflexes must be slow as hell. I dont understand how that doesnt work. iv had guys try this and i shut that sh@t down!

RedStar105
02-12-2017, 06:21 AM
Block their attacks? Mobility is only good if they can counter attack.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 07:25 AM
Then your reflexes must be slow as hell. I dont understand how that doesnt work. iv had guys try this and i shut that sh@t down!


I've had around 18 hours in this beta.

I've gone on ridiculous win steaks.

I'm not just making things up.

For instance I just played the Orochi and I can attack and back away before anyone can do anything.

Attack, dodge back, then roll back, rinse and repeat.

The way you guys talk seems like you have a limited amount of experience in the game.

This isn't just a "git gud" scenario. I've talked to other people in game and who play the game and we all have encountered this same problem.




@RedStar105

I'll do you one better, I'll parry all their attacks, and then they can still roll away facing 0 consequences. I've done it tons of times.



I'm tired of you people on the forum assuming that you're the best brightest and most flawless players to exist, if you've encountered what I have you wouldn't be mouthing off with your amateur nonsense.

Either the dodge/roll mechanics need changed and if that isn't the problem then the p2p needs to change.

Zywroh
02-12-2017, 07:49 AM
I've been playing the Conqueror for probably about 18 hours myself and I agree, I block/parry an attack and they just roll away when I try anything and either punch back after my slow swing or roll away easily and still have more stamina. =/

Ryumanjisen
02-12-2017, 08:14 AM
Let's be clear here. After a succesful parry (not a block, a parry) ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break. If you can't do it, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break, the ones with longs weapons (namely the Nobushi and the Kensei) but that depends on the move you did parry. On the rest of the cast, is a guarantedd guard break.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 03:32 PM
Let's be clear here. After a succesful parry (not a block, a parry) ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break. If you can't do it, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break, the ones with longs weapons (namely the Nobushi and the Kensei) but that depends on the move you did parry. On the rest of the cast, is a guarantedd guard break.



Look at this, you can't even get the first part right:


ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break.


EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break


Here's another correction, you wrong again. You can't just be wrong and tell me I'm doing it wrong, then admit you're wrong and tell me I'm still wrong.


You guys are shameful.

Gethseme
02-12-2017, 03:56 PM
Look at this, you can't even get the first part right:






Here's another correction, you wrong again. You can't just be wrong and tell me I'm doing it wrong, then admit you're wrong and tell me I'm still wrong.


You guys are shameful.

Then I will tell you. You're doing it wrong. I have zero problems with dodge spam/runners. If you wanna dodge backwards, I'll wait you out. If you run, I will wait you out. If you ROLL, you are burning stamina for that roll. I play almost exclusively Conq right now and i have absolutely zero problems wrecking someone who dodge spams.

If you roll backwards, then obviously I'm winning the fight and if you want to run the clock down, you can. I'll win in the end with more HP, otherwise why are you running around stalling?

I've fought several runners and dodge spammers. I just sit there and play on my phone till they decide they want to fight. As Conq I play very passive, and I'm quite good at countering Guard breaks. I'm usually the one with the most HP, unless I made a grave mistake in the match.

One final note, the pursuer ALWAYS catches the runner, if they have any skill and wit. The pursuer can ALWAYS take the shortest path to catch a runner. Even if they run for hours, no matter how they try to twist and turn, the pursuer always can take the shortest path to catch them.

The above guy is right, with the exception of a couple moves by specific classes, EVERY character can be guaranteed guard broken, with ZERO chance to dodge/roll, or even counter guard break, after a parry. And those moves are almost exclusively near max range attacks, or attacks made while walking backwards and attacking, with the Nobushi, Kensei, and Warden. And that mostly has to do with the animation of the parry and the distance they were from you when you initiate the parry.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 04:13 PM
I have zero problems with dodge spam/runners. If you wanna dodge backwards, I'll wait you out. If you run, I will wait you out.

So you can't do anything about it other than wait, my point exactly.


And to clarify, I'm talking about 1v1 and 2v2 where the only objective is to beat your opponent.



And guys, for the sake my sanity, please stop saying "EVERY CHARACTER CAN" followed by or prefaced by "WITH EXCEPTIONS" because that is pointless. If you want to phrase it that way then it is "most characters can".

Ryumanjisen
02-12-2017, 04:23 PM
You sure are dense, my friend. I added the addendum (and didn't edit the first paragraph) because I wanted to be honest, You don't know how to properly play this game, and that's fine: we were at that point at the beggining. But if you wrongly blame the mechanics, your game will not improve. And that's fine, too, as long as you aware of it.

Gethseme
02-12-2017, 04:27 PM
There is nothing wrong with saying all with exceptions listed. That's proper english and proper word usage. You don't have to like it, but it's still correct. If there are 1000 actions, and 995 result in one thing, that's not "most", that's all except 5.

Also, since it truly is a L2P issue, here's something you should read. If you can't do it still, then it's YOUR fault. Learn to play, stop calling stuff "ruined" or "no counterplay" when there IS counterplay. Refusal to do so is just making yourself into the typical scrub, as in the person that calls things "cheap" or "OP" without learning to counter them and learning to use the tools required to win. The only time the below listed paragraph doesn't work is against max range attacks from classes with long weapons, and then it usually STILL requries them to be holding S/Down on left stick WHILE attacking to back away while making the attack for the GB not to autodash and grab.


You need to guard break in the very first frames after you parry. If you guard break just as you finish your parry animation, your character will dash forward and guard break. You don't have to press any direction with the movement keys. The game just assists you with a dash guard break because you parried. If you miss the frame window, you will just guard break the air in front of you with no dash forward, and you'll get punished.

Practice the timing in practice mode vs level 1 bot and you'll see the huge dash forward that automatically happens after you parry then guard break. All classes will do this, but not all classes can benefit as much from a guard break.

It's worth noting that attacks parried from very long range can't be reached with the dashing guard break. The best example of this is the Nobushi who pokes from so far away, that a parry won't get you a guard break. Other classes can poke at you from the tip of their long range attack and avoid the guard break, but this isn't that common. Typically you can guard break almost any class after parrying their attack, and this is almost always the most punishing followup to a parry. Whether or not this is the best way to implement rewarding a parry is another story, but this is direction that Ubisoft is currently running with the game.

Altair_Snake
02-12-2017, 05:07 PM
The roll can avoid the GB. As to the rest... you're probably not buffing your inputs to act as quickly as you can.

Also, the dodges can feel OP when in some cases they work against all diretcions of your attacks. So, maybe this legit frustration is making you perceive somethings with a bias.

One very important thing to consider is the timing of the dodge, which can be standardized in some situations, such as: you hit him witha s pecific attack and he dodges as soon as he can... Some set ups like these can result in dodges that work against all your attack options and attack you with the side stepping move before you can GB them to counter the side step. So, in these set ups, you are forced to defend, even if in theory it seemed like you were in a good situation to continue to attack.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 05:23 PM
The roll can avoid the GB.

Correct. That is my point. that leaves 0 counterplay.


you're probably not buffing your inputs to act as quickly as you can.


I am, so this issue could be (which none of you address ever despite me saying it several times) a CONNECTION or P2P issue. Which again I've stated. But that also leaves no room for counter play.


@Gethseme

I want you to look real careful at this section of what you quoted to me:


t's worth noting that attacks parried from very long range can't be reached with the dashing guard break. The best example of this is the Nobushi who pokes from so far away, that a parry won't get you a guard break. Other classes can poke at you from the tip of their long range attack and avoid the guard break, but this isn't that common. .



A lot of you guys are acting like I just refused to try new tactics.

I try to guard break after a parry, a lot. I've tried it a lot. It either doesn't work, or this is a connection issue.

I've spent time with other players, literally just doing rounds of parries/deflects for the sake of practice. I've discussed these issues over skype with other players who have the same problem in real time playing the game.


I'm sorry I'm so bad and you guys are so much better than me. I wish I could guardbreak people who break guard mode and roll away. But I can't, I'm not gud like u guize

Gethseme
02-12-2017, 05:36 PM
The roll can avoid the GB. As to the rest... you're probably not buffing your inputs to act as quickly as you can.

Also, the dodges can feel OP when in some cases they work against all diretcions of your attacks. So, maybe this legit frustration is making you perceive somethings with a bias.

One very important thing to consider is the timing of the dodge, which can be standardized in some situations, such as: you hit him witha s pecific attack and he dodges as soon as he can... Some set ups like these can result in dodges that work against all your attack options and attack you with the side stepping move before you can GB them to counter the side step. So, in these set ups, you are forced to defend, even if in theory it seemed like you were in a good situation to continue to attack.

Just tested this with a friend. If you immediately after the parry input the GB, it will go off, they cannot dash/roll out of it. Yes, Rolls CAN avoid GBs. No, Rolls cannot be input while you're in the Parried animation, as in when you've BEEN parried. You can dodge and backroll away if you're just blocked, though. But a parry? I just tested with a friend 10 times, him doing nothing but spamming spacebar repeatedly after inputting the heavy attack, and when I parried, I immediately hit MMB to guard break, my character dashed forward automatically and connected the guard break.

We THEN tested, since we confirmed it is NOT possible to dodge/roll after being parried by a chained Guard Break (which is what it is, it's chaining a GB to a parry), if he can tech it. And after about 20 or so attempts, he could not tech my chained GB. So, Velkamit, you can be sarcastic about your "I'm sorry I'm so bad and you guys are so much better than me. I wish I could guardbreak people who break guard mode and roll away. But I can't, I'm not gud like u guize", but it is just you. That or your game is busted and you need to reinstall/check game file integrity/check your internet, because I just did it multiple times.

And no, we didn't test this with the entire cast, just with him on his Warden and me as my Conq. I don't know if it's a specific class issue, but I can consistantly chain into a GB from my parries, and my opponent cannot tech nor dodge/roll it, it's guaranteed.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 06:06 PM
And no, we didn't test this with the entire cast, just with him on his Warden and me as my Conq. I don't know if it's a specific class issue, but I can consistantly chain into a GB from my parries, and my opponent cannot tech nor dodge/roll it, it's guaranteed.

Thanks for the feedback with testing.

It was 2v2 when I was a berserker vs orochi and peacekeeper. It could very well be a class thing or a connection issue.




I just played a game 1v1 - I was Orochi, the enemy was nobushi. Even if the Nobushi did not roll or dodge away, I still could not guard break her after a parry.

Further more, I was (as the Orochi) able to side-step her trying to guard break me. GB which i've been hearing is the counter to the side-dodge just totally missed me.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 06:12 PM
I just faced a conq with orochi. The conq tried to GB me when I side stepped, and he got that blue spark thing and couldn't do it.

MidnightVanilla
02-12-2017, 07:46 PM
Just tested this with a friend. If you immediately after the parry input the GB, it will go off, they cannot dash/roll out of it. Yes, Rolls CAN avoid GBs. No, Rolls cannot be input while you're in the Parried animation, as in when you've BEEN parried. You can dodge and backroll away if you're just blocked, though. But a parry? I just tested with a friend 10 times, him doing nothing but spamming spacebar repeatedly after inputting the heavy attack, and when I parried, I immediately hit MMB to guard break, my character dashed forward automatically and connected the guard break.

We THEN tested, since we confirmed it is NOT possible to dodge/roll after being parried by a chained Guard Break (which is what it is, it's chaining a GB to a parry), if he can tech it. And after about 20 or so attempts, he could not tech my chained GB. So, Velkamit, you can be sarcastic about your "I'm sorry I'm so bad and you guys are so much better than me. I wish I could guardbreak people who break guard mode and roll away. But I can't, I'm not gud like u guize", but it is just you. That or your game is busted and you need to reinstall/check game file integrity/check your internet, because I just did it multiple times.

And no, we didn't test this with the entire cast, just with him on his Warden and me as my Conq. I don't know if it's a specific class issue, but I can consistantly chain into a GB from my parries, and my opponent cannot tech nor dodge/roll it, it's guaranteed.



See heres the problem. The OP is right, you are testing this method but your not even using an assasin character, your playing with conq and warden. Hes saying that an assasin, Peackeeper, orochi, beserker, can dodge right after a parry, and they cant be grabbed after a parry. Your forced to play very defensively as ANY move you make can just be dodged and attacked. Any time you attack first you will loose, so you have to wait for them to attack, but they generally never do. and if your both not attacking eventually they will hit you until you swing and then dodge and attack. Even if your able to grab them and hit them, thats only 1 hit you can get off. and if that seems to be the only way to hit someone who is a good assasin, you would have to land that 1 move, which they would quickly wise up to and counter it. There needs to be another counter to the speed from the assassins. Even if you see the dodge coming and you attack in that direction before they do, they can stilll dodge it again. They need to simply remove the increased dodge speed. That parry dodge is already really good and no one ever even usses it because they can just dodge and hit instead. I literally never see an assasin do a dodgeparry because he can do more damage through the other means. You all are giving the OP such a hard time but your all wrong and he is right.

DarkCthulhuss
02-12-2017, 08:16 PM
Agree, op is right.
Whole open beta test i played i was like wow this hero have op moves, but then i see their downsides and can counter them. But this assassins ******** is terrible.
They can spam attack in your face, dodge all the attack you try to do vs them, even if you try to catch them - its almost impossible. They will dodge\ runaway\ roll back from any danger. And even if you were lucky to get them into parry+gb or just gb - you did only 1 light hit, but sorry you already down to 50-30% hp dude..
Even if you play defensive af they still can roll away without stamina, its such a horrible thing, in my opinion if you have "grey" stamina and you try to do roll - your character have to fall dawn. There is no punishment for spam&roll strategies.
My hopes on release balance patch. But i dont feel like devs gonna do this :^( Only if huge amount of threads gonna be created on forum about orochi\peacekeeper\bountyhunter being too op.

So OP i can feel you, nothing we can do vs this rollfest :(

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 08:19 PM
You can't roll without stamina. Only dashes are allowed. Of course.....could be a bug that allows you to roll without stamina.

DarkCthulhuss
02-12-2017, 08:23 PM
You can't roll without stamina. Only dashes are allowed. Of course.....could be a bug that allows you to roll without stamina.

even if you can only dash, your enemy run away without stamina, you start to chase him and do an attack and he simple dashes away from hit, you wont hit assassin without stamina, there is no punishment to be in grey state right now

DaReaper9598
02-12-2017, 08:27 PM
You can't roll without stamina. Only dashes are allowed. Of course.....could be a bug that allows you to roll without stamina.

I main a peacekeeper, and I will say that if you do your grabs right, there doesn't seem to be much she can do. Her sidestep-stab is slower than the Orochi's so she can be grabbed before it fires off. I've similarly been grabbed during back rolls, and fight that after a back roll, I'm often out of stamina or low enough on stamina that a charge will leave me at a loss unless I have more room to fall back.

niksskywalker
02-12-2017, 08:30 PM
Cannot guard break during enemy's attack. Sometimes running and breaking the guard passes right through the player. For vanguard and heavy heroes, the guard direction change is extremely slow which turns fatal if playing against Assassins. It is nearly impossible to kill Assassins with Heavies. Warden is as useless as anything in modes other than Dominion because of their low and slow attacks. Some of the characters are greatly overpowered which will bring the game down to only Samurais and Knights won't even be in the game after a month or so. Increase Knight's defense.

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 08:39 PM
even if you can only dash, your enemy run away without stamina, you start to chase him and do an attack and he simple dashes away from hit, you wont hit assassin without stamina, there is no punishment to be in grey state right now

You can't sprint without stamina. Only the iron lungs feat can make you do that AND only certain characters have that feat AND it's only available in dominion and deathmatch.

You can however dash to safety with assassins. Dashing away with other characters....I don't recommend it since other class dashes pale in comparison to an assassins.

ThePollie
02-12-2017, 08:51 PM
Said it before, say it again - Speed over defense characters have always trumped defense over speed characters in fighting games. Unless they add a form of base hyper-armour that isn't specific to certain characters' attacks, you are always going to get out-classed by a faster character. You might beat a few, but on an even fighting level, their speed is the edge that gets over the hurdle of skill.

Velkamit
02-12-2017, 09:26 PM
See heres the problem. The OP is right, you are testing this method but your not even using an assasin character, your playing with conq and warden.

Right, the people here have been **** heads on top of not even paying attention to what the complaint was.




I main a peacekeeper, and I will say that if you do your grabs right.

That is incredibly ambiguous.

TheStratovarian
02-12-2017, 10:44 PM
Heavier characters need an inbuilt stun/CC against lighter characters (The assassins). You need a way to lock them down, because atm, there is no real good counter to the light characters outside playing the prison shower game with your buddies and the guy intruding on your turf. And as you start going up, its nothing but assassin spam from dominion/brawling. There's a clear imbalance of power here.

I play primarily conquerer, and really, the heavy attack is a joke against assassins given the dodge range and reversals, outside a rare cancel. I have to play defensively, there is no option for me to go on the offensive, save if they screw up. If they don't, I lose. It comes down to that. They have to make a mistake, or I lose. The chargeables don't impact quick enough or capably enough to one shot shot them before they can leave. Nor can you target them via lock for an opening. They can recover and dodge out of shield stuns after hits easily. GC's don't work reliably enough with your speed to really do much.

It's not a matter of stamina to lose the game against the assassins, not with you going light attacks only, as they can dodge roll out. There is no good option here but play the "You lose" game most of the time.

I'm thankful that i've not bought the game right now, seeing and experiencing this. I love the combat, the approach and the fun of it. But this is just someone pissing in your drink because they can get away with it in regards to the fun and enjoyment. I like close fights, where its a barely won thing, where a handful of choices won me the fight. It's fun to barely win, or barely lose and see how I lost. You improve that way. There is no improvement to this. It's "You lose because you chose this class."

Afius
02-12-2017, 10:51 PM
Dodges eat up a **** ton of stamina. In the game it shows your opponents stamina pay attention! It's just like a fighting game watchin the opponents meters are important. Idk how many times I made the stupid mistake of exhausting myself and my opponent didn't take advantage of it. A forward dash after your opponent with a follow up works wonders.

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 10:53 PM
Dodges eat up a **** ton of stamina. In the game it shows your opponents stamina pay attention! It's just like a fighting game watchin the opponents meters are important. Idk how many times I made the stupid mistake of exhausting myself and my opponent didn't take advantage of it. A forward dash after your opponent with a follow up works wonders.

Dodges don't consume stamina. Rolls do.

ThePollie
02-12-2017, 10:53 PM
And then what? You attack, he blocks it. You attack again, he blocks it again. You guard-break, he counters it. This game does very little to discourage you from being exhausted, especially since a burst of intense pressure can break a guard and get in a few attacks. The price being that, what, I can't do it again for a bit? It's not like my defense really flounders. Sure, I can't risk a parry, since I might get feinted and parried myself. But why parry them in the first place? Being exhausted, I can't possibly take advantage of the window it presents anyway, so why even risk that?

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 11:04 PM
And then what? You attack, he blocks it. You attack again, he blocks it again. You guard-break, he counters it. This game does very little to discourage you from being exhausted, especially since a burst of intense pressure can break a guard and get in a few attacks. The price being that, what, I can't do it again for a bit? It's not like my defense really flounders. Sure, I can't risk a parry, since I might get feinted and parried myself. But why parry them in the first place? Being exhausted, I can't possibly take advantage of the window it presents anyway, so why even risk that?

Parrying while exhausted still gives you space and time. All the while draining their stamina.

ThePollie
02-12-2017, 11:12 PM
And if they feint it, you just handed them a massive amount of damage. If you had simply blocked, you'd have taken virtually no damage at all, vs risking the parry to do what? Slow them a moment and hurt their own stamina?

TCTF_SWAT
02-12-2017, 11:21 PM
That's the thing. Do you risk a parry? Or do you hunker down and block? Because then someone can just throw heavies at you all day and you don't have much answer to it. Because heavies offer mix-ups.

ThePollie
02-12-2017, 11:28 PM
But why risk the feint? I don't get anything out of it. He can't hurt me unless I open my guard, and reducing his stamina by a bit won't make a difference. It only takes a moment to regenerate it all, anyway. But if I try for a parry and walk into a feint, I just handed him the opportunity to well and truly mess my face up. Right now, you get exhausted and just have to turtle up with blocks and dodges. Don't let him bait you into parrying, even if you're sure he isn't feinting it, and you're set. You don't even have to wait long, you'll be combat-effective in just a few seconds and can resume attacking.

tenshox
02-12-2017, 11:36 PM
Played Conq up to P2, no problems to track people with GB, no problems to get a guaranteed GB after a successful block either.

Kroma-
02-12-2017, 11:41 PM
GB counter dodge, parry counter dodge attacks. I almost never dodge against a good opponent or i can get punished hard. And dodge backward without roll actually made me loose a lot of game against good player.
You have to hit GB right when their dodge start, if you wait too long it wont connect. A roll cant be GB but consume half your stamina.

Dodge is probably the more risky move defensively. Being a good blocker will carry you farther.

Powahful
02-12-2017, 11:58 PM
Dodges feel very overpowered to me right now. It bothers me when I am fighting an assassin and they don't have to ever attack because they know that any move I throw out can be countered by a dodge attack. Literally any move can be countered by dodge attack and considering it doesn't matter what side you dodge to there is not much skill involved imo. I think you should have to dodge to a correct side for your dodge attack to work, for example if I attack on the opponents right side they should not be able to dodge in that direction, it should be similar to blocking were the direction you choose matters. That way there is a chance for the person initiating the fight to anticipate which direction they might dodge in. I played both the alpha and beta a ton and each day it seems like more and more people are playing the assassin. It makes the game boring when everyone is just standing there waiting for each other to attack because there is no risk in dodge attacking. I just want a consistent punish or read I can make to stop people from this basic strategy.
:D

Kroma-
02-13-2017, 02:06 AM
I can tell you for sure that if you dodge in the opposite direction of a side heavy attack you will get hit by it most of the time. While dodging in the same direction will not. I always dodge in the direction of an attack because i m sure i wont get hit.

The best is to feint your attack and parry their dodge attack. If they just dodge, feint into GB next time and you will kill them easy.

Cryptic_Ophion
02-13-2017, 02:51 AM
I have over 2 days total play time and have never had this issue. GB wil ALWAYS catch mid-dodge unless one does a roll and attacks can still very easily hit mid-dodge just as easily - especially if you bait them with a feint to dodge in to your next attack.

Stenier
02-13-2017, 04:27 AM
Author, you are just bad at the game, accept it. I am a warden, and i actually COUNTER orochi and peacekeepr. Just be patient, master your parry and play defensively (they are assassins after all). Its not the game nor heroes nor p2p, its just you and your reflexes. Stop whining about the game when you cant get good at it.


I can tell you for sure that if you dodge in the opposite direction of a side heavy attack you will get hit by it most of the time. While dodging in the same direction will not. I always dodge in the direction of an attack because i m sure i wont get hit.

The best is to feint your attack and parry their dodge attack. If they just dodge, feint into GB next time and you will kill them easy.

Kroma knows the thing. It works always. (wont work against light attack spammers tho, just block them)

Flatlander57
02-13-2017, 05:09 AM
Meet a defensive player:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121546322

There is literally no amount of dodging, or attacking, or guard breaking you can do to beat a defensive player.
If he Parries an attack, he gets a free un-counterable guard break (if you are within range).

Also, if a player dodges left, or right, then attacks, those are the easiest attacks in the entire game to block, they take forever, only come from one direction, and you can basically parry them every time. A Dodge+Attack is ONLY useful if you are dodging an attack. If the other player is just being defensive, your dodge is just a waste of time.

Riels.
02-13-2017, 05:53 PM
Just throwing it out there
dodges have predictable follow ups
If an assassin rolls back don't GB just dash up and he will be pressured as he has to think of a new way to get away while also saving some stamina (conq is one of the best counters to assassin since a good player usually controls enemy positioning by pressuring them) wardens are excellent Parry/bait abusers and have a closeup tools, berserker raider and warlord can't complain as they have best closeup tools as for kensei I don't know as I have not played him. Every character has strength and weakness think of strategy aspect of moba with a reflexes needed from fps and fighting games tell me what character you play and who you want to beat and I'll try to come up with a strategy (also p2p is a bs and stop mentioning it this game runs in a different way and I haven't had any lag/host superiority issues it's just the game mechanics which are presented to you to counter enemy)

B3NNS
02-20-2017, 10:18 PM
Let's be clear here. After a succesful parry (not a block, a parry) ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break. If you can't do it, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break, the ones with longs weapons (namely the Nobushi and the Kensei) but that depends on the move you did parry. On the rest of the cast, is a guarantedd guard break.

Upload a video of you parrying assassin light attacks. I'll wait.

xilixer
02-20-2017, 10:50 PM
while this may be a real punish on players dodging right or left. there is no way to punish people who constantly dodge backwards when their stamina runs out. if you try to attack them then they'll parry you or dodge left or right again and then keep going back till stamina is back again.

Rump_Buffalo
02-21-2017, 02:28 AM
Guard break. It tracks dodges.

You cannot guardbreak their side-step dodge attack because the attacking part nullifies the GB.

The_Mensan
02-21-2017, 03:02 AM
ROFL...

I am laughing pretty hard at this...

If everyone can counter "dodge spam" with GBs but you can't, maybe... just MAYBE the problem is you? xD

Honestly, who are all these people getting beat by "light attack spams", "GB spams", now "dodge spams"... Do none of you ever calm down and realize if someone's spamming, they are predicable and that's literally the last thing you want to be in a competitive game? SPAMMERS are literally the worst players and yet you can't beat them? That's insane!

That's like someone complaining at a Foosball game (at a bar) that someone is beating them with "spinning". Even though it's not officially allowed, spinning is such a bad tactics (zero ball control, no real advantage considering that all pros can shoot just as fast without spin), that no one with any resemblance of skill should fear a rod-spinner.

So... Why on earth are you defeatable by dodging spamming? How do you survive in this harsh harsh world?

The_Mensan
02-21-2017, 03:05 AM
Upload a video of you parrying assassin light attacks. I'll wait.

lol... Are you serious? It's not hard at all... What kind of reflexes do you have? I am going to play tonight and whip up a quick video if I have time. Parry window is HUGE. Not only do I parry lights, I parry the dashing lights all the time. How bad are you?

BLooMeaT
02-21-2017, 12:39 PM
Assassins spam attack is not a problem of class. It's just typical for internet fighting games. If connection is good it's easy to block and parry, but if something gonna wrong attack > defence. I am not really good lawbringer(71% win) and sometimes can't parry shugoki heavy attack, just no animation.
But all who say to git gud forget what assassins can block and parry too, do more damage and move faster.
If you can parry all attack doesn't matter which class you play.

Felis_Menari
02-21-2017, 02:17 PM
Guard break. It tracks dodges.

This would be great if initiating a sidestep attack didn't render characters immune to GBs while doing it. Even if you hit 'em with a GB before they start their swing/attack animation, they still are immune (found this out going against a sensei). This is not ok.

Yatharo
02-21-2017, 03:43 PM
This would be great if initiating a sidestep attack didn't render characters immune to GBs while doing it. Even if you hit 'em with a GB before they start their swing/attack animation, they still are immune (found this out going against a sensei). This is not ok.

Thisis100%correct!

Playing against assassin classes right now is pretty much a mindgame of tricking them into sidedodges so u can block and gb them for a heavy before they roll away.

There is simply no offensive way to face them without getting punished massively. Thats why everybody hates on Orochis and PK.

Dude_of_Valor
02-21-2017, 04:45 PM
I have found that if someone rolls away I quickly sprint and then launch an attack on them. Can only recall once recently were that did not work and that was my fault really.

I play as a Warden so maybe having that bit of reach helps. I also find attacking in the direction they are dodging into stops this plus you want to force them into a corner where they cannot escape.

Maybe try a different tactic to what you are doing OP in order to see if that works.

GenLiu
02-21-2017, 07:47 PM
2 things that can help against assassins : They don't like sidestep, if they try to sidestep you and you sidestep them in reaction you'll get them.
You can also trick them with the distance since their weapons has a pretty limited reach (except for the Orochi, you need a pretty long weapon to out range them). Try to read their game, move a little so you're just out of range and punish them.