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Maasik
02-11-2017, 11:59 AM
Ok so there is a lot of whining on the forums.. like a lot haha but hear me out.

The Raider is someone who is supposed to throw people around and hit hard, thats all well and good. But as a character thats meant to literally man-handle everyone else and chop them to pieces.. why is he the only vanguard character that does not get a guaranteed guardbreak after a successful parry? Plus even when he does land a guard break, none of his heavy attacks are guaranteed either. Granted, he has an unblockable that can be fainted.. but I feel like the damage it does for the amount of stamina it costs makes it not even worth throwing out unless its to end a chain, and even then its quite easy to parry and after the chain you might not have enough stamina to spare to try and feint it into something else.

So at high level where people are teching guard break attempts consistently, this leaves you with this playstyle of slowly chipping away at your opponents health with light attacks and stunning taps, which is very counter-intuitive to the Raiders archetype. Yes, you can do heavy into light cancels (which are all a high), heavy feint into guard breaks (which people can tech), or baiting out a move and get a dashing stunning tap (gimmicky and guarentees you no real follow up).. but at a high level you have no real way of opening a reactive defensive player up or getting any worthwhile damage in.

Maybe I just suck and need to "get good", but i feel like the Raider fails to do what he's supposed to excel at and the risk/reward isnt even in his favor seeing as your left with only doing light attacks after successful parries, forward throws, and stunning taps. Ideally if the Raider were to be adjusted, all I would want is guaranteed guard breaks after parries and 1 guarenteed heavy attack after both a guard break and a forward throw where you chuck the opponent to the ground (not when you stun them against a wall).

Desperaato
02-11-2017, 01:25 PM
I feel you bro, Raider cant even land a Heavy from wall stunns its ridicilous. And like you said he cant land any heavies from any options he has free like "all" the other classes can.

Gunnar_Krig
02-11-2017, 03:05 PM
Guess I've been lucky since I don't really share in this complaint to its full extent. Granted I'm only prestige 1 rank 16 yet. When I wall someone I can most of the times get off a top heavy + light and sometimes even the unbreakable to finish off for massive damage, sometimes finishing people off. But for openers I'm a bit stumped. No offensive opener is reliable imo, I most of the time need to parry into a combo to do anything.

Voxxy90
02-11-2017, 03:39 PM
I'm fine with the Raider really. Not the best character out there in different scenarios (Dominion vs. Deathmatch require different playstyles), but anyway he's intended to be multi-purpose. I do believe the parry speed could be increased, and the heavy attack tuned so that it's not as predictable//easily parried - on high-level duels he really takes a beating.

But I promised myself that I'll stick to it and learn it as best as possible, inside and out. :cool:

Gorgutz117
02-11-2017, 06:53 PM
Thematically, Raider is my favorite character, but you are right he sucks right now. He's too slow and needs a boost. Guaranteed heavy off of wall stun and successful parry, better/faster animations on his combos, and a light-heavy-heavy combo are all a great place to start. He should be the most "offensive" of the Vanguards seeing that the other two have defensive moves, like the top hit counter on Warden and dash strikes on the Kensei. He also needs a bit more stamina efficiency and should cause a bit more stamina damage when you just sit there and block him.

Right now he suffers from a bad/predictable moveset and is TOO slow, even for a "strong" character. Heavies are faster than him. His one gimmick is running people off cliffs, which is kind of cheap. There's literally no reason to ever use this character once you unlock Conqueror or Warlord.

To_Obi
02-11-2017, 09:14 PM
Like in closed beta, Raider was fun the first day where you could land some heavy strikes and unblockable.
Now everyone parries that... He is trash level right now.

drizzit1121
02-12-2017, 12:05 AM
yeah man i mained raider this beta and i just ranked up to the level of people who have really solid defence. it was only then that i realize my parry into guard breaks were because of my opponents just not teching. i didnt know it wasnt a sure thing until then. but just to be clear if you throw someone into a wall you can get a guaranteed over head heavy if you start it as soon as your recovery is over. meaning you have to realize you are gonna throw them into a wall. not the knee to face but just the throw. .1 seconds to late and you will get parried. but the side heavy is much more forgiving thankfully. so yeah they need to fix that about him. making it really really hard to beat people who dont just let you hit and grab them. possibly impossible.

drizzit1121
02-12-2017, 01:07 AM
Correction. His dash grab is still techable after a parry. Walk forward grab isn't after a parry. But his unblock able should only be able to be dodged honestly. I mean not a dry one but the combo chain one.

Desperaato
02-12-2017, 01:38 PM
You cant get a overhead heavy you mean? tested this with a friend like 20 times and with side heavies too. Maybe its character spesific or its just really inconsistent.
Some times they do connect for god knows why smashing heavy attack right after throw to wall didint make any difference.

Maybe P2P lag??

Gorgutz117
02-12-2017, 03:03 PM
You cant get a overhead heavy you mean? tested this with a friend like 20 times and with side heavies too. Maybe its character spesific or its just really inconsistent.
Some times they do connect for god knows why smashing heavy attack right after throw to wall didint make any difference.

Maybe P2P lag??

No, it's not just overhead heavy. Side heavy won't land either if the guard is in the right direction. I have tested this as well and you cannot land a free heavy after a wall stun or a parry. The animation is too slow and the opponent's guard will be back up before the hit will connect. He's the only character who cannot punish mistakes or capitalize on a good wall stun or parry.

If you're playing against noobs you might land one because they didn't move their guard into the right position, but if it's there then the hit will not land, ever.

To_Obi
02-12-2017, 03:13 PM
Thats sad but true. Thats why he is bottom tier.
Time to switch to Lawbringer. He has free heavy and variable unblockable...far superior to Raider.

Nicademusx
02-13-2017, 02:04 AM
No, it's not just overhead heavy. Side heavy won't land either if the guard is in the right direction. I have tested this as well and you cannot land a free heavy after a wall stun or a parry. The animation is too slow and the opponent's guard will be back up before the hit will connect. He's the only character who cannot punish mistakes or capitalize on a good wall stun or parry.

I have tested this also and you are correct. I will gladly add that even if you get a stun or knock an enemy to the ground, most normal heavy attack are not fast enough and are blocked. When you're in the motion of the unblockable (but can be interrupted) heavy all other opponents can get a light hit in or dodge out of the way. Whats the point of my "signature" attack if it never connects?

I played the raider in in both closed and open beta. The only thing a raider is good for right now is crowd control, not 1v1.

All that being said, the raider does excel as a support character in dominion. The ability to take out several soldiers at B in one swipe and rallying or healing troops on the battlefield for that extra push to win the match.

eN0LAA
02-13-2017, 03:43 AM
Lmfao RRaider is best char on the game
u lot need 2 get gd =D diff playstyles, i guarentee they wont change **** and have figured it out perfectly alrdy, seems balanced 2 me
.:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Maasik
02-13-2017, 05:41 AM
Lmfao RRaider is best char on the game
u lot need 2 get gd =D diff playstyles, i guarentee they wont change **** and have figured it out perfectly alrdy, seems balanced 2 me
.:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Super original/10 troll my friend.

TTVPappusGaming
02-13-2017, 10:01 PM
I dunno how you guys tested and although there are instances where I indeed don't connect my heavy after a wallstun the cause is always me unvoluntarily switching attack direction due to input queue during the parry.

The wallstun has to be sideways for starters and additionally the raider has setups to actually guarantee two heavy hits as only character able to do that.

2x Top heavy anyone?

I am too lazy to highlight it right now but if you are super interested the explanation is in my last vod on how to set it up and different applications e.g. exhausting any character from full stamina to grey in a single throw.

Lynx7386
02-13-2017, 10:30 PM
I did ok with raider vs other vanguards, but terrible against heavies and assassins. Raider is just as slow as the heavies, if not slower than some, but lacks their defense.

I think my conqueror was even doing more damage with heavy attacks than my raider did, and conq can block while charging that heavy.

TR.WhiskeyD
02-14-2017, 12:00 AM
I agree with the notion that I could almost never land a heavy after wall stun or throw. I had to shift to fast attack + stunning tap and then attempt a heavy. Against competent players you are basically never going to land a heavy attack.

DemonKENAN
02-14-2017, 04:20 AM
I have also tested the wall throw left or right into heavy and it works 100 percent of the time as long as I timed the attack correctly and didnt attack up. Tested it many times and done it in battle many times. If I think I messed up the timing I wouldn't hit and when I knew I didn't it hits every time. So idk if all my testing was wrong and everyone i played against cant block.. but it does seem to work for me.

Stankyfoot
02-14-2017, 04:25 AM
Given the way that game devs look at armour you'd think the guy wearing none would be a bit quicker.

pongkrit03
02-14-2017, 05:09 AM
my posts from another Raider's thread

----

Guys, I play only Raider in close beta and 70% on beta. I consider myself a decent Raider fighter (60-70 win rate), then on the last day of beta my friend told me to have a second hero to fight when I was bored with Raider, so I thought ok maybe I tried Peacekeeper since her GB is greatest. Guys, you know what, after that I was completely unstoppable. It felt like you switch from your junk old car to a Ferrari or GTR. God !!! why was I so stupid for holding Raider for so long ?

Just quit Raider guys, he is totally useless without cliff. Believe me, try Peacekeeper, or other heroes until Raider get buff. Right now, he may be the weakest in 1v1.
--------------

another one, explantion


In 1v1 or confrontation with high skilled opponent, you can't land a single hit with heavy without being blocked (or worse, parried). You have to rely on light attack, which our combo are pretty weak compared to other light attack. GB then throw opponent cliff is our best bet but high skilled opponents won;t let that happen easily. If there is no cliff or dangerous environment, it will be very difficult to do dmg as Raider. Slamming people into a wall only decrease enemy's stamina (a little) and 1 free light attack. It does not help that much. Or you can use zone attack after GB, which is like double dmg of your light attack (still not that much) and it costs a lot of stamina. Our pommel strike is also weak if compared with other dash attack. Only little dmg and slow, easy for assassin to dodge and punish you.


I love Raider but the way he is now, he seriously needs buff. The best I would suggest is stun wall should allow 1 top heavy, that will do, considering how hard to put enemy on wall (many times you need 2 GB to do that). Stun wall is too weak at this moment, not worth trying to unless opponent's back is already at the wall.

Gorgutz117
02-14-2017, 01:13 PM
The saddest part of this is that the Raider is, thematically, the coolest of the Vikings. He really does look and feel like a crazy barbarian who just wants to Hulk Smash. If they would just fix him so he's competitive he would probably be one of the most popular characters. Right now, I almost never see Raiders in multiplayer past the very most beginner level. Everyone is an Orochi, a Nobushi, or has a shield.

Desperaato
02-14-2017, 06:57 PM
By one chart posted somewhere in forums Raider was picked 2% of the times in dules... hmm i wonder why, also the other game modes didin't go that much better for him.
He probably didint get any attention after the previous betas since hi's win rate was the best of all classes. But i think they looked at dominion where he reings supreme against all the new people...

WolfsmundStarke
02-14-2017, 08:47 PM
I play Raider while beta and I don't see he is weak or something

Raider is balance slow but heavy damage , he need some tactics for lay heavy attack then finish combo with feint attack

Heavy , Light , Feint can drain around 75% enemy HP and Heavy , Heavy , Feint is Instant kill , but before you can do that you may need drain enemy stamina or stun him for more success change

I was wait for Lawbringer but after try I feel I can't handle him anymore... slow than Raider but heavy consume stamina and low damage , after back to Raider I feel a life again...

He may slow but you know? Raider is faster than Kensei...

k3rr3k
02-14-2017, 08:48 PM
The only guaranteed damage you get now is from throwing someone to the ground when they are out of stamina. Another possibility is guard break into unblockable but who gets hit by guard break anymore?

Desperaato
02-14-2017, 09:41 PM
If you think you can land a heavy in Duels against real people with 85% winrates gl m8

Ausweisen
02-15-2017, 01:13 AM
Imho as a Raider main with 76.67% win ratio 1.97 KDA at 11h played time and played a bit in the last beta I consider myself a novice still, but I cannot honestly find the problems on my end that you all mention. Yeah I'll admit he's slow af but that's why I think he's going to be one of those classes that people either are beastly at or just poopiedumps.
Honestly, once you adjust to the game and the "pressure" that comes during pvp it get's better. Much better. (fun fact this game triggers your fight or flight mechanisms, that's why some lock up/panic/mess up). Keep in mind you can also do a mini stun lock with a wall stun follow by a side step stun or the R1-R1 combo stun. Both ample time. They'll be stood back up but stunned giving you enough time to nail a double heavy (second unblockable) if youre feeling confident, or you can grip and toss em away/throw em down if they have no stam. The two stuns should totally drain their stam so throw downs followed by double heavy is a 100-0.

These are some little things I do. How often is the success? About 70% give or take 5% but the winner is the one who adjusts the fastest, not who rolls their face the hardest. If you see me in game or have questions I don't mind offering my point of view. Hope this helps a little.

Gorgutz117
02-15-2017, 04:07 AM
You are a liar. Raider is not viable AT ALL in 1v1, and is only useful in Dominion to back attack people 2v1. If the devs aren't going to speed him up and expand his moveset, they should delete him from the game entirely.

Ausweisen
02-15-2017, 04:30 AM
If that's how you feel. I'm still having fun /shrug.

pongkrit03
02-15-2017, 04:58 AM
Imho as a Raider main with 76.67% win ratio 1.97 KDA at 11h played time and played a bit in the last beta I consider myself a novice still, but I cannot honestly find the problems on my end that you all mention. Yeah I'll admit he's slow af but that's why I think he's going to be one of those classes that people either are beastly at or just poopiedumps.
Honestly, once you adjust to the game and the "pressure" that comes during pvp it get's better. Much better. (fun fact this game triggers your fight or flight mechanisms, that's why some lock up/panic/mess up). Keep in mind you can also do a mini stun lock with a wall stun follow by a side step stun or the R1-R1 combo stun. Both ample time. They'll be stood back up but stunned giving you enough time to nail a double heavy (second unblockable) if youre feeling confident, or you can grip and toss em away/throw em down if they have no stam. The two stuns should totally drain their stam so throw downs followed by double heavy is a 100-0.

These are some little things I do. How often is the success? About 70% give or take 5% but the winner is the one who adjusts the fastest, not who rolls their face the hardest. If you see me in game or have questions I don't mind offering my point of view. Hope this helps a little.

Have you ever tried other characters ? especially assassins ?

Go and try Orochi seriously for 3 hours and come back to reply me again. Right now your comment is not vailid, if you only play Raider but never invested time in other characters.



They'll be stood back up but stunned giving you enough time to nail a double heavy (second unblockable)

If you can land unblockable without being parried, I think you played with noob dude.

Maasik
02-15-2017, 06:58 AM
So it seems most people agree that at high level the Raider is pretty weak. Although to those asking that he be able to land a heavy attack after stunning someone against a wall, I disagree with that because it already drains their stamina and the knee dazes them which makes it hard to react to a follow up light attack or guard break.

All I think the Raider truly needs is to have a guarenteed guardbreak after a parry (I mean he is the "grappler" character right?), 1 guarenteed side heavy after a guard break, and 1 guarenteed heavy if he throws someone into a wall (sideways or backwards, not the wall stun). I also think itd be great if his dash attacks came from whichever way he is dashing, similar to how the berserkers dash attacks were changed for mix up potential, but I dont think its 100% necessary.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 08:07 AM
Have you ever tried other characters ? especially assassins ?

Go and try Orochi seriously for 3 hours and come back to reply me again. Right now your comment is not vailid, if you only play Raider but never invested time in other characters.




If you can land unblockable without being parried, I think you played with noob dude.

I think he just pointed out that the second heavy cannot be blocked and not that the second strike is an unblockable.

The raider does indeed have wall-setups that allow him to double heavy without the enemy being able to block. Let me show you a clip from my last stream.

(will edit once I find and highlight it so you see what he means)

pongkrit03
02-15-2017, 09:03 AM
I disagree with that because it already drains their stamina and the knee dazes them which makes it hard to react to a follow up light attack or guard break.

It only decrease like 20% of enemy's stamina, I don't think it worth the hassle putting enemy to wall. The daze won't work in high level play.




I think he just pointed out that the second heavy cannot be blocked and not that the second strike is an unblockable.

The raider does indeed have wall-setups that allow him to double heavy without the enemy being able to block. Let me show you a clip from my last stream.

(will edit once I find and highlight it so you see what he means)

Never heard of this. I really want to see your clip and how to do so.

Thxs in advance.

Coccyx420
02-15-2017, 09:09 AM
what does it mean to tech into things?

To_Obi
02-15-2017, 10:19 AM
I think he just pointed out that the second heavy cannot be blocked and not that the second strike is an unblockable.

The raider does indeed have wall-setups that allow him to double heavy without the enemy being able to block. Let me show you a clip from my last stream.

(will edit once I find and highlight it so you see what he means)

hahaha...did you smoke something? :D

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 10:43 AM
hahaha...did you smoke something? :D

Why would you say so?

In case you think it is absurd to hit two heavies as a raider that cannot be blocked you will soon be taught something different.

If my latest test is to be trusted the raider can get top heavy + chained unblockable after a guardbreak on a stamina depleted oponent. Which basically means, parry, parry dead.

To_Obi
02-15-2017, 11:02 AM
You did not say your opponent is stamina depleted.
I can't say if its true or not in that situation but nevertheless it's a rare setup and not improving Raiders overall situation.

Timjan
02-15-2017, 11:32 AM
Guess I've been lucky since I don't really share in this complaint to its full extent. Granted I'm only prestige 1 rank 16 yet. When I wall someone I can most of the times get off a top heavy + light and sometimes even the unbreakable to finish off for massive damage, sometimes finishing people off. But for openers I'm a bit stumped. No offensive opener is reliable imo, I most of the time need to parry into a combo to do anything.


Havent tried Raider much but imo he is strong and balanced, I play warden.

Just wanted to come in here and to highlight what heavy attacks.
Top Heavy attacks are FASTER and MORE powerful then sides.

Even a warden will NOT get a heavy from a wallstun IF you do a side heavy.
But a Top heavy is free hit.

Keep practicing.
There are no bad champs in For Honor, some are SLIGHTLY stronger then others.
Imo Raider is one of the opponents I fear on my warden, the fluid movement between fast light attacks and heavy attacks.
Your heavy attacks Is NOT slow, they are balanced based on damage.

But pro tip for low elo matches: Use Zone attack, unblokable. People that dont know how to parry. Its cheap, its dirty, and I fell the REASON I learened to parry in this game, is cause I faced no skill Raiders spamming zone attack. I had no chance.
But I thank them for the lesson learned, I now parry solid and make minch meat out of most raiders on my warden.

Raider seems a fantastic class, yes I win vs them NOW, but I lost before.
There are two classes in this game that i go hmmm, when I face them. Its Orochi and Raider.
The rest can be tough or hard but, a good raider..jezus....

Keep playing dude, you have a great champ in your hands, if you love the style, keep at it. Raiders are good. But they will be the FIRST class to possibly get a slight buff since so many keep complaining about them, but seems legit in some places.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 11:39 AM
You did not say your opponent is stamina depleted.
I can't say if its true or not in that situation but nevertheless it's a rare setup and not improving Raiders overall situation.

That is because when I wrote that I didn't know they stealth nerfed the raider. Before the stamina level of the opponent didnt matter because you could deplete it from 100->exhaustion in a single grab at walls. That does not exist anymore.

Little edit: Also works after a grab while in revenge. It actually kills btw. A nobushi you meet in dominion if you revenge and grab him you kill him out of that ONE guardbreak.

Maasik
02-15-2017, 12:05 PM
The raider does indeed have wall-setups that allow him to double heavy without the enemy being able to block. Let me show you a clip from my last stream.

(will edit once I find and highlight it so you see what he means)

After throwing an opponent who is out of stamina to the ground, the Raider can get any heavy guarenteed.. if you cancel it into an unblockable the opponent does have time to parry the zone attack or another heavy.

Something I like to do is throw an exhausted opponent to the ground and do a guarenteed overhead heavy, do the unblockable but feint it and then parry the opponent if THEY tried to parry and since their stamina is usually still recovering they fall on the ground again for another guarenteed overhead heavy. Gimmicky but when it works it does a ton of damage and worst case scenario you can feint your parry attempt if the opponent didnt do anything.

Although if you have a clip proving the Raider can get 2 guarenteed heavy attacks using a wall I'd love to add that to my arsenal lol.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 12:44 PM
After throwing an opponent who is out of stamina to the ground, the Raider can get any heavy guarenteed.. if you cancel it into an unblockable the opponent does have time to parry the zone attack or another heavy.

Something I like to do is throw an exhausted opponent to the ground and do a guarenteed overhead heavy, do the unblockable but feint it and then parry the opponent if THEY tried to parry and since their stamina is usually still recovering they fall on the ground again for another guarenteed overhead heavy. Gimmicky but when it works it does a ton of damage and worst case scenario you can feint your parry attempt if the opponent didnt do anything.

Although if you have a clip proving the Raider can get 2 guarenteed heavy attacks using a wall I'd love to add that to my arsenal lol.

The clips are there in my vods already and I can do it against a bots and players. There is still issues getting it to 100%. Not sure where the inconsistency stems from I am onto it though.

https://youtu.be/xO4L-sMKsg8

There you go double heavy punishs at the wall or in the open and stamina depleted enemies are not rare. Two parries is all it takes and parries often come with a guardbreak punish to begin with.

Not shown in the video: A grab while in revenge produces the same result since it knockdowns.

To_Obi
02-15-2017, 01:16 PM
I don't know what you try to show here.
An exhausted opponent who falls to the ground takes heavy damage. Thats nothing new and true for all classes.
Like you already noticed on your own, a throw into wall does not give you a free heavy strike on your opponent.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 01:25 PM
I don't know what you try to show here.
An exhausted opponent who falls to the ground takes heavy damage. Thats nothing new and true for all classes.
Like you already noticed on your own, a throw into wall does not give you a free heavy strike on your opponent.

You literally watch a 9 minute video about hitting the enemy twice after exhaustion without the opponent having a way to block/dodge or parry and you dont get it?

Any throw into the wall except the forward one is a guaranteed heavy to begin with. What the video shows is how to get 2. In dominion these two techniques basically show a kill from 100->0 after a single grab in revenge or a guardbreak on an exhausted enemy. An exhausted enemy you get after usually the second parry from there you grab and kill.

I don't know another char that can do a 100-0 on an exhausted enemy as a COMBO.

This isn't the bot not blocking it this is the bot not being able to block it.

To_Obi
02-15-2017, 01:44 PM
You literally watch a 9 minute video about hitting the enemy twice after exhaustion without the opponent having a way to block/dodge or parry and you dont get it?

Any throw into the wall except the forward one is a guaranteed heavy to begin with. What the video shows is how to get 2. In dominion these two techniques basically show a kill from 100->0 after a single grab in revenge or a guardbreak on an exhausted enemy. An exhausted enemy you get after usually the second parry from there you grab and kill.

I don't know another char that can do a 100-0 on an exhausted enemy as a COMBO.

This isn't the bot not blocking it this is the bot not being able to block it.


Again, you are talking about a rare setup, implying your opponent behaves like a low level bot. We talk about overall viability of the Raider and that should assume at least an average skill level.

Parry your opponent into exhaust is no combo and can be done by all classes. The fact, that Raider deals enough heavy damage to kill in 2 hits (with revenge) does not make it one.

And most important, Raider has no guaranteed heavy. No matter what you do, throw, gb, parry... Raider has no guaranteed heavy at all.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 02:02 PM
Again, you are talking about a rare setup, implying your opponent behaves like a low level bot. We talk about overall viability of the Raider and that should assume at least an average skill level.

Parry your opponent into exhaust is no combo and can be done by all classes. The fact, that Raider deals enough heavy damage to kill in 2 hits (with revenge) does not make it one.

And most important, Raider has no guaranteed heavy. No matter what you do, throw, gb, parry... Raider has no guaranteed heavy at all.

You are simply wrong.

#1 Parrying into exhaustion means two parries at MAXIMUM. (Pretty much everyone I fight goes into exhaustion as long as I get a parry off and am not overwhelmed with good attack techniques)
#2 Parrying any light attack guarantees a direct heavy as punishment
#3 Throwing opponent into a wall sideways guarantees a heavy. You are not allowed to switch sides of your attack after the throw.
#4 After guardbreak you can straight up unblockable and it will connect. (Haven't double and triple checked this, but it should be all dwight)

Honestly if an exhausted opponent is rare for you then you probably aren't parrying a lot. Sidestep attack parry is like a loss of 80% of your stamina right there. If you did anything before that you are exhausted already and punished with the techniques I show because you are exhausted before the grab.

Btw these lvl 3 bots actually attack better than most of the players and I exhaust them several times. They usually also stop attacking as soon as they are exhausted just like humans - who would have guessed.

To_Obi
02-15-2017, 02:08 PM
I guess its pointless to continue.
You can find enough information about it already all over this forum or others.
Or just play yourself. You should notice soon.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 02:27 PM
I guess its pointless to continue.
You can find enough information about it already all over this forum or others.
Or just play yourself. You should notice soon.

I have over 10 reputation levels on raider alone. I also tested it in the lab with a buddy. Wallthrow among many other things and you get the heavy after a wallthrow as long as you input it fast and do not change attack direction after the throw. Top heavy a bit trickier though and might sometimes connect too late.

Also we aren't having a discussion you simply state wrong information that you picked up somewhere and never did an effort to check for yourself.

Gorgutz117
02-15-2017, 02:36 PM
Guys, the ONLY way you can get a heavy hit in as a Raider is to 100% exhaust an opponent and THEN side throw and THEN go for a heavy. You CANNOT punish off a parry, you CANNOT get a guaranteed GB off a parry, and you CANNOT get a guaranteed heavy off of a wall stun, a regular throw, or a stun tap/GB.

You can't even do a parry, guard break, heavy. ALL other characters can punish in this way. The Raider sucks because he has no offense to supplement his defense. He must rely on a cheap gimmick or running people off cliffs to have any chance at all. This is why you almost never see him online. He is not viable right now.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 02:58 PM
Guys, the ONLY way you can get a heavy hit in as a Raider is to 100% exhaust an opponent and THEN side throw and THEN go for a heavy. You CANNOT punish off a parry, you CANNOT get a guaranteed GB off a parry, and you CANNOT get a guaranteed heavy off of a wall stun, a regular throw, or a stun tap/GB.

You can't even do a parry, guard break, heavy. ALL other characters can punish in this way. The Raider sucks because he has no offense to supplement his defense. He must rely on a cheap gimmick or running people off cliffs to have any chance at all. This is why you almost never see him online. He is not viable right now.

Add me on uplay I will show you how to do it. I guess one person at a time has to be shown that it works. You got my name and in 1 min you will see that the raider can do things aswell.

corac34
02-15-2017, 02:58 PM
Guys, the ONLY way you can get a heavy hit in as a Raider is to 100% exhaust an opponent and THEN side throw and THEN go for a heavy. You CANNOT punish off a parry, you CANNOT get a guaranteed GB off a parry, and you CANNOT get a guaranteed heavy off of a wall stun, a regular throw, or a stun tap/GB.

You can't even do a parry, guard break, heavy. ALL other characters can punish in this way. The Raider sucks because he has no offense to supplement his defense. He must rely on a cheap gimmick or running people off cliffs to have any chance at all. This is why you almost never see him online. He is not viable right now.

Agreed, there is literally no reward for good play right now as a raider, you have to count on the enemy to make mistakes which just doesnt at higher level gameplay. whereas they can get free dmg whenever they want on us. I hope they fix it soon because im 3rd prestige raider and I enjoy the playstyle more than any other class. It just sucks being so weak in comparison.

Desperaato
02-15-2017, 04:27 PM
Hey im interested doing this test since i have been saying alot of the same things about raiders wall trhows being useless and starting topics after testing this out my self with irl friend.

IDR0X
02-15-2017, 04:51 PM
I am so disheartened by the current state of the game.

Closed beta the raider was great, open beta the raider.. felt... weird.. and people started to learn the extremely basic set up of raider. and now in launch.. I've just lost myself.. i paid $99 for gold edition because i fell in absolute love with the raider character. And now.. i... i don't know what to do..... i really don't.. i'm boarder lined on getting a refund.. on the fence..

Besides the info that has been placed above for the fact that the raider simple can't shine like other classes can.. Any of the "good moves" the raider has like the unblockable.. other classes can do it better. like the shugoki and lawbringer. The raiders main call to arms is his ability to muscle people around.. but within a single day everyone and their mother has learned to tech GB reliably at least. Which pretty much strips the raider of HALF of anything he can do. The heavy attacks and unblockable are just massive invitations for a parry. Mainly be cause its impossible to chain one into a successful GB of any kind. without them blocking it while on the ground. or parrying it.

On top of all this seeing how the majority of the game is orochi or peacekeepr.. and with raiders lack of ANYTHING right now. it has caused the already irritation of having to fight the swarms of over powered assassins. To a mental state that i can't even describe. Its not rage.. its not sadness.. the closest thing i can compare my feelings to is absolute regret. For purchasing this assassin simulator. I might hold on the game for a week or so. hoping to see if the devs actually change and balance the game and show a little love to raider who so sorely needs it. also.. nerf the living hell out of that side dodging stabs form all the assassins PLEASE. You can;t do a single attack without getting instantly and constantly punished by those attacks. make it hella more stamina costing. or SOMETHING.. I've fraught peacekeeprs and orochi that won the entire match by ONLY using that move almost none stop. When that kinda spam happens you should automatically know something is wrong.

Aarpian2
02-15-2017, 05:04 PM
Havent tried Raider much but imo he is strong and balanced, I play warden.

Just wanted to come in here and to highlight what heavy attacks.
Top Heavy attacks are FASTER and MORE powerful then sides.

Even a warden will NOT get a heavy from a wallstun IF you do a side heavy.
But a Top heavy is free hit.

Keep practicing.
There are no bad champs in For Honor, some are SLIGHTLY stronger then others.
Imo Raider is one of the opponents I fear on my warden, the fluid movement between fast light attacks and heavy attacks.
Your heavy attacks Is NOT slow, they are balanced based on damage.

But pro tip for low elo matches: Use Zone attack, unblokable. People that dont know how to parry. Its cheap, its dirty, and I fell the REASON I learened to parry in this game, is cause I faced no skill Raiders spamming zone attack. I had no chance.
But I thank them for the lesson learned, I now parry solid and make minch meat out of most raiders on my warden.

Raider seems a fantastic class, yes I win vs them NOW, but I lost before.
There are two classes in this game that i go hmmm, when I face them. Its Orochi and Raider.
The rest can be tough or hard but, a good raider..jezus....

Keep playing dude, you have a great champ in your hands, if you love the style, keep at it. Raiders are good. But they will be the FIRST class to possibly get a slight buff since so many keep complaining about them, but seems legit in some places.

Top heavies are slower than side heavies for almost every class (Only the warlord and possibly the orochi are the exceptions here).
Raider cannot confirm a top heavy off of a guard break or a wall stun.
Warden cannot confirm a top heavy off of a guard break, and only off of a wallstun if you had your guard in top stance already. Your side heavies are guaranteed in both cases.

Desperaato
02-15-2017, 05:20 PM
Ok after testing Raider again! in the lab with the nice help of @TTVPappusGaming Raider does in deed get heavy attacks from wall throws!

BUT top heavies are higly dependant on where players are positioned when the throw to a wall happens and if you are not positioned to the right place the Heavy top is parryable/blockable it was pretty inconsistent.

Now Side heavies from wallthrow where alot more consistent but also needed to be positioned correctly to work.

So with this information we can change the subject and start to ask why the Hell is Raiders heavy attacks from wall throws so so inconsistent comapred to the other classes in game?? why does he need to be positioned like that when no other class needs to??

hopefully we can get this fixed some day. Gl Hf in the battlefields.

Credit for this goes to @TTVPappusGaming

Ausweisen
02-15-2017, 05:26 PM
No one is denying that some of you might have issues with Raider, but you have to consider that most of it is User error. If you do not even take the time to consider all the avenues of where you are failing, how can you improve? You don't get good at Raider by joining Dominion and spamming unblockable and charge. You get good by doing brawls, 1v1, playing people better than you (yeah I said it, BETTER PEOPLE).

if you parry you can easily R1+R1 combo or an unblockable if they aren't nailing every parry. If you just block, then don't attack right head on after you block. A sidestep overhead stun typically catches people off guard, or if you're expecting them to grab after the block(which has been something of a trend presently) then roll away. Your R1 and R2 are actually quite fast, but you almost never want to open with R2 unless you're confident in your class.

The tips myself and other pass along aren't recipes for winning every fight. They are tools to use at the right time. When you find yourself not sure why something is happening to you, throw a level3 bot in practice and work on it. Practice, practice, practice!. I've got class so I'll check on and off through the day but I'll always try to help out a fellow looking to learn more about Raider.

P.S. it goes without saying, but make sure to test out the other classes to get a better feel for them as well. The more you know about your enemy, the less of a threat they become.

Ausweisen
02-15-2017, 05:38 PM
Ok after testing Raider again! in the lab with the nice help of @TTVPappusGaming Raider does in deed get heavy attacks from wall throws!

BUT top heavies are higly dependant on where players are positioned when the throw to a wall happens and if you are not positioned to the right place the Heavy top is parryable/blockable it was pretty inconsistent.

Now Side heavies from wallthrow where alot more consistent but also needed to be positioned correctly to work.

So with this information we can change the subject and start to ask why the Hell is Raiders heavy attacks from wall throws so so inconsistent compared to the other classes in game?? why does he need to be positioned like that when no other class needs to??

hopefully we can get this fixed some day. Gl Hf in the battlefields.

Credit for this goes to @TTVPappusGaming

Inconsistencies? Only way you can mess it up is if you hit the wall as you're swinging(unblockable still goes through, though it won't be a double) or you were focusing too much on getting position. Trust the axe. It's got a wide berth. Raiders aren't like your other For Honor bullies. He doesn't have endless chains of cc/interrupts, but he's got a wicked fast stun, powerful grabs/cc with wall and a considerable amount of damage pre-revenge. He punishes aggressive and passive moves (like the orochis that like to run out and charge in, same with zerks or Wardens and Conqs that like to play it defensively)

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 05:41 PM
I am so disheartened by the current state of the game.

Closed beta the raider was great, open beta the raider.. felt... weird.. and people started to learn the extremely basic set up of raider. and now in launch.. I've just lost myself.. i paid $99 for gold edition because i fell in absolute love with the raider character. And now.. i... i don't know what to do..... i really don't.. i'm boarder lined on getting a refund.. on the fence..

Besides the info that has been placed above for the fact that the raider simple can't shine like other classes can.. Any of the "good moves" the raider has like the unblockable.. other classes can do it better. like the shugoki and lawbringer. The raiders main call to arms is his ability to muscle people around.. but within a single day everyone and their mother has learned to tech GB reliably at least. Which pretty much strips the raider of HALF of anything he can do. The heavy attacks and unblockable are just massive invitations for a parry. Mainly be cause its impossible to chain one into a successful GB of any kind. without them blocking it while on the ground. or parrying it.

On top of all this seeing how the majority of the game is orochi or peacekeepr.. and with raiders lack of ANYTHING right now. it has caused the already irritation of having to fight the swarms of over powered assassins. To a mental state that i can't even describe. Its not rage.. its not sadness.. the closest thing i can compare my feelings to is absolute regret. For purchasing this assassin simulator. I might hold on the game for a week or so. hoping to see if the devs actually change and balance the game and show a little love to raider who so sorely needs it. also.. nerf the living hell out of that side dodging stabs form all the assassins PLEASE. You can;t do a single attack without getting instantly and constantly punished by those attacks. make it hella more stamina costing. or SOMETHING.. I've fraught peacekeeprs and orochi that won the entire match by ONLY using that move almost none stop. When that kinda spam happens you should automatically know something is wrong.

I understand your sorrow. I was surprised myself how little raiders I saw given how appealing the class seems.

The thing is this that people are generally saying they can't hit heavies with the raider but well NO class can throw a heavy around and hit it. It just doesn't happen. Heavies are a tool exclusively for punishment just like guardbreaks. You just can't grab people later on anymore. Just doesnt work out.

So those orochis, nobushis, kenseis etc they all depend on their lights aswell and they are often hard to parry. That is more a state of the game issue.

However when you grab you can go straight into unblockable. Don't forward throw them or sideway. Just grab - connected? -> Unblockable. It isn't exciting but it is 28 dmg. As a comparison the sideheavies of most classes deal 30 so the raider is acceptable there.

Then you need to invest a bit of time into your wallthrows so you can ensure to get your top heavy there everytime you can get it for 45 dmg + a chance for the light of the chain afterwards to connect. If that hits you have 45 + 10 dmg for 55. Now a peacekeeper for example has 120 life so a parry -> wallthrow -> topheavy -> light cuts him basically in half.

I showed tech earlier that allows you to instant kill people off a single grab in dominion but it is tough to use. I dont wanna say git gud because I know the struggle you mean. Assassins terrorizing us with lights that are really tough to parry on reaction and eventually little by little they cut through. Everytime they are exhausted they run away and it is agitating.

In the long run though when you stick to the raider you will be a parry monster and then you will decimate those assassins in a couple of hits. I will post a guide later it will be a couple of pages to read but give you all the tech there is at the moment for the raider.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 05:43 PM
Inconsistencies? Only way you can mess it up is if you hit the wall as you're swinging(unblockable still goes through, though it won't be a double) or you were focusing too much on getting position. Trust the axe. It's got a wide berth. Raiders aren't like your other For Honor bullies. He doesn't have endless chains of cc/interrupts, but he's got a wicked fast stun, powerful grabs/cc with wall and a considerable amount of damage pre-revenge. He punishes aggressive and passive moves (like the orochis that like to run out and charge in, same with zerks or Wardens and Conqs that like to play it defensively)

No if you are too close to the wall the enemy will recover in time to block. For sideheavies you need to throw him at least like a tiny bit. For the top heavy to connect you need to throw them into the wall even further. Like if you are right next to a wall with an enemy and throw him in it wont connect. The raider push animation is simply a bit longer.

Ausweisen
02-15-2017, 06:00 PM
No if you are too close to the wall the enemy will recover in time to block. For sideheavies you need to throw him at least like a tiny bit. For the top heavy to connect you need to throw them into the wall even further. Like if you are right next to a wall with an enemy and throw him in it wont connect. The raider push animation is simply a bit longer.

An enemy thrown into the wall that isn't exhausted can net you a R1^2 combo or an unblockable OR my personal favourite, throw into wall, followed by R1^2 and then unblockable. Obviously that's a situation that happens maybe once every few matches since it takes some planning/luck but oh baby!~ Any throw I've done into a wall has met with this success. It could be because my ping is really low even on p2p. I never lag unless the host is using something from the civil war era (happened once and the whole match crashed lol).


I'm pretty damn tired atm so I may have misread/misunderstood, but everything I suggest I spent an hour or more getting my *** kicked to learn. My win ratio has been steady in the 70-80% brackets and I know I've earned it. Raider easily feels the most rewarding for me personally and especially when you start to see yourself improve.

TTVPappusGaming
02-15-2017, 06:13 PM
An enemy thrown into the wall that isn't exhausted can net you a R1^2 combo or an unblockable OR my personal favourite, throw into wall, followed by R1^2 and then unblockable. Obviously that's a situation that happens maybe once every few matches since it takes some planning/luck but oh baby!~ Any throw I've done into a wall has met with this success. It could be because my ping is really low even on p2p. I never lag unless the host is using something from the civil war era (happened once and the whole match crashed lol).


I'm pretty damn tired atm so I may have misread/misunderstood, but everything I suggest I spent an hour or more getting my *** kicked to learn. My win ratio has been steady in the 70-80% brackets and I know I've earned it. Raider easily feels the most rewarding for me personally and especially when you start to see yourself improve.

I simply dont know what R1 R2 or R1^2 actually means. Not everyone plays on controller. Do you mean double light off a wallthrow? Also no matter what you do a simple wallthrow will not be something comboing into unblockable. You do that against someone all that will happen is a parried unblockable and you in exhaustion mode.

Ausweisen
02-15-2017, 06:26 PM
I simply dont know what R1 R2 or R1^2 actually means. Not everyone plays on controller. Do you mean double light off a wallthrow? Also no matter what you do a simple wallthrow will not be something comboing into unblockable. You do that against someone all that will happen is a parried unblockable and you in exhaustion mode.

R1^2 is R1+R1 (r1 squared). Yes I play on PS4 which is also another reason why my experience is different from yours because you say no, but that just isn't the case for me. Not a matter of who is wrong or right so don't feel as though I am doing that to you. I'm saying that my experience varies from yours. Do with the info what you will

Gorgutz117
02-16-2017, 03:21 AM
The issue with the Raider is that in order to have a chance, too many circumstances have to be just right. Need to parry twice, grab without a guard break, and side throw into a wall at 0% stam. That's ridiculous, no one else needs all that to be viable. You might as well say "Raider is great if you can run in from behind someone and charge them off a cliff." You can't make a character based off that one trick, let alone a convoluted parry/parry/wall slam/combo x 2 trick.

pongkrit03
02-16-2017, 03:21 AM
To TTVPappusGaming (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2222884-TTVPappusGaming)

1.Enemy with exhausted state can be knockdown by throwing and get free heavy hit. It is applied to all characters so I don't count this as Raider advantage.

2.Stun wall only decrease stamina of enemy about 15-20%. Moreover, you can't do this forever, If enemy notice that, he can
1) immediately attack after get up
2) spam rolling away
3) counter guard break
one of these actions will get him away from your stun wall lock. It does not guarantee you to deplete his stamina. Unless he has little stamina left, this strategy is viable but if not, most people will just out of your loop after you do 2-3 times, unless he is noob. You should try this when fight with high level opponent and see yourself.

___________________


To Ausweisen (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2233838-Ausweisen)

if you never tried other characters seriously, just don't post man, you have no info to compare

Moreover, wall throw or stun does not guarantee r1 r1, it is only r1 and the second r1 can be blocked if enemy is fast enough. I really want to play with you though not sure we are in same region, or else I will stomp you hard with Orochi to let you know the difference in class power.

I live in South East Asia btw. I can play in the next 8 hours from now, if you want to know why Raider sucks, give me your psn


__________________


To Desperaato (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2099050-Desperaato)

Wall throwing can knock you down only if you are in Exhausted state, which other characters can do that as well, not only Raider. Keep watching your stamina, he won't be able to knock you down. You can test it.

Stankyfoot
02-16-2017, 03:32 AM
They could give the Raider a lovely buff if they tweak his heavy attack combo a bit. They should allow any of the strikes to be soft feinted into his pommel strike and give the second and third strike uninterruptible status. He already has underrated footsies and a tweak along these lines would really help bring that aspect out of his kit a bit more.

Steinstirbt
02-16-2017, 04:04 AM
Have you ever tried other characters ? especially assassins ?

Go and try Orochi seriously for 3 hours and come back to reply me again. Right now your comment is not vailid, if you only play Raider but never invested time in other characters.




If you can land unblockable without being parried, I think you played with noob dude.

What so mad? I agree with the lad. Atm i Have 2,9 KDA ratio with raider and have had major success in all game-modes. I dont know why you all are so mad about his mechanics...

Read the art of war , it will learn you to adapt your strategics to each individual battle instead of being mad that your dream-combo does not slay all your foes in the same manor every time.

And tbh there are 11 other classes 2 play IF you dont like him. It is too early to call for buffs/nerfs when theres not nearly enough statistics to go through. Lets await some real numbers first.

Meanwhile i'll continue staying a true Viking .

Peace out // Raider is my mainguy <3

TTVPappusGaming
02-16-2017, 04:16 AM
To TTVPappusGaming (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2222884-TTVPappusGaming)

1.Enemy with exhausted state can be knockdown by throwing and get free heavy hit. It is applied to all characters so I don't count this as Raider advantage.

2.Stun wall only decrease stamina of enemy about 15-20%. Moreover, you can't do this forever, If enemy notice that, he can
1) immediately attack after get up
2) spam rolling away
3) counter guard break
one of these actions will get him away from your stun wall lock. It does not guarantee you to deplete his stamina. Unless he has little stamina left, this strategy is viable but if not, most people will just out of your loop after you do 2-3 times, unless he is noob. You should try this when fight with high level opponent and see yourself.

___________________



1. I am not talking about 1 heavy but heavy into unblockable for 95 dmg.

2. Wall carry (forward throw of the raider) decreases the stamina to 20% and prevents stamina regeneration after the daze ends for ~1.5s
After wall carry you will do light into unblockable chain and feint it. He will either dodge/roll or parry and you can punish both. If your enemy is a punk just let it go through and annihilate him straight.

Titzi-
02-16-2017, 04:21 AM
Guys, atm i'm raider rank 2 lvl 10 and have been so in the previous beta.

I have kda of 2.9 and 75% wins.

Now, this introduction is just to say i'm not new to the Raider.

I've just done the test, when you break guard someone, the shield last longer for every other class than the Raider. Check-it by yourself.

THIS is the reason why we cannot land an heavy strike after the guard break, as for the wall stuns, I find it very random, sometimes strikes, sometimes not.

Now let's face it, we don't really have trouble vs any class except maybe the Orochi that is a pain with his dash attack meaning you have no room for mistakes vs a good one.

But then if we had a guaranteed heavy hit after a guard break, the Raider may become overpowered.

I would like it to happen but then i'm afraid they would nerf the damage and that's just not possible for me to like this, when you land heavies you feel so powerful with this class :)

To_Obi
02-16-2017, 08:47 AM
Good job guys, alot of work has been done.

So now the well earned conclusion: Raider has no guaranteed heavy attack.

I'm glad you figured it out, but anyways, thanks for finding that one heavy attack that maybe could happen.

Maasik
02-16-2017, 09:34 AM
But then if we had a guaranteed heavy hit after a guard break, the Raider may be overpowered.

A guarenteed heavy attack after guardbreak is CRUCIAL to making this character viable in high level play. Currently off a parry we get 0 reward.. nothing, not even a guarbreak unless u dash first.. and if you do the guard break then becomes techable.

Even if they nerfed the damage on our heavies (which would be fine imo) to compensate, it would allow the character to to generate SOME form of offense.. as currently we are stuck with soft feinting into stun taps for laughable damage, hitting light attacks after guard breaks and forward throws into walls for laughable damage, or hard feinting our heavies/unblockable and either light attack the opponent interrupting their parry attempt or guard breaking into light attack for laughable damage. That hardly seems like the playstyle of the hard hitting Raider.

Shqiptar_91
02-16-2017, 09:49 AM
The issue with the Raider is that in order to have a chance, too many circumstances have to be just right. Need to parry twice, grab without a guard break, and side throw into a wall at 0% stam. That's ridiculous, no one else needs all that to be viable. You might as well say "Raider is great if you can run in from behind someone and charge them off a cliff." You can't make a character based off that one trick, let alone a convoluted parry/parry/wall slam/combo x 2 trick.

This is why I dont play my Raider anymore. Simple too many factors have to be right in order to carry out many of the things u guys are talking about.

And i HATE it. Now i went to play Kensei and suddenly i can;

punish people with heavy attack that i parry
punish people with heavy attack that i guardbreak
get a free unblockable or heavy from wallstun,
can cancel my unblockable into uinterrupted attacks either from left or right
still can dash forward and guardbreak
side dash attack
more attack chains
and gotta love his last feat at lvl 4 making unblockable attacks come from all sides instead only from above

Yes, I have lower dmg but more options.

Jarnhand
02-16-2017, 10:03 AM
This is why I dont play my Raider anymore. Simple too many factors have to be right in order to carry out many of the things u guys are talking about.

And i HATE it. Now i went to play Kensei and suddenly i can;

punish people with heavy attack that i parry
punish people with heavy attack that i guardbreak
get a free unblockable or heavy from wallstun,
can cancel my unblockable into uinterrupted attacks either from left or right
still can dash forward and guardbreak
side dash attack
more attack chains
and gotta love his last feat at lvl 4 making unblockable attacks come from all sides instead only from above

Yes, I have lower dmg but more options.

And you nail it! Let me just copy myself:
A good player that learn all the moves etc, will do good on all classes, even the underpowered ones to a certain degree, but will completely stomp 'everyone' on a good class.
A mediocre/new player will do ok on a good class, but will get wrecked on a bad class.

This is always the problem in PvP games and when it comes down to discussions about class balance (and I am getting really tired of seeing the same discussions over and over and over again for every MMO/PvP game I play), people are almost always subjective and do not see it from a neutral/new player perspective.

If you want to see how well balanced classes are, see how new players are doing on the classes. Because on a strong class they will do ok, but on a weak class they will get utterly crushed (as with the Raider).

pongkrit03
02-16-2017, 10:29 AM
I started feeling pointless to discuss here so let wait and see




What so mad? I agree with the lad. Atm i Have 2,9 KDA ratio with raider and have had major success in all game-modes. I dont know why you all are so mad about his mechanics...

Read the art of war , it will learn you to adapt your strategics to each individual battle instead of being mad that your dream-combo does not slay all your foes in the same manor every time.

And tbh there are 11 other classes 2 play IF you dont like him. It is too early to call for buffs/nerfs when theres not nearly enough statistics to go through. Lets await some real numbers first.

Meanwhile i'll continue staying a true Viking .

Peace out // Raider is my mainguy <3


I didn't mad. Why did you think I am mad anyway ?. I just simply told him to test other characters so that he can compare with Raider.

I was playing Raider before, and I think I have more K/D than you in beta test. However, after i tested Peacekeeper and Orochi, I was much stronger. My friend who can fight 1v1 with me closely, could not keep up with me anymore.




1. I am not talking about 1 heavy but heavy into unblockable for 95 dmg.

2. Wall carry (forward throw of the raider) decreases the stamina to 20% and prevents stamina regeneration after the daze ends for ~1.5s
After wall carry you will do light into unblockable chain and feint it. He will either dodge/roll or parry and you can punish both. If your enemy is a punk just let it go through and annihilate him straight.

Nope it is only 1 heavy. Unblockable is not guarantee, enemy can parry or dodge away.

We are talking about guarantee hit here, not your feint Technic.

TTVPappusGaming
02-16-2017, 12:42 PM
I started feeling pointless to discuss here so let wait and see






I didn't mad. Why did you think I am mad anyway ?. I just simply told him to test other characters so that he can compare with Raider.

I was playing Raider before, and I think I have more K/D than you in beta test. However, after i tested Peacekeeper and Orochi, I was much stronger. My friend who can fight 1v1 with me closely, could not keep up with me anymore.





Nope it is only 1 heavy. Unblockable is not guarantee, enemy can parry or dodge away.

We are talking about guarantee hit here, not your feint Technic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Lj30koihc

Those are actual combos. No dodging possible. Don't blame me if you don't even know anymore what you are talking about. The feint technique works because the enemy can react in case you don't notice the elephant in the room, but he has to react too and we can punish accordingly to keep high pressure up.

Titzi-
02-16-2017, 05:36 PM
What is your video trying to prove ? Throwing down an exhausted ennemy gives you one free heavy, this is something every class can do and you won't be able to do this with a brained player. You call it oneshot when you need to grab and exhaust an ennemy to throw him to the ground and give him 2 hits (heavy + unblockable). You're not really honest there.

Apart of that you're not able to land a single heavy to anyone after a guard break or a wall stun ! They don't even need to parry, just block.

Obviously you played vs not very good people. I've been curious so I watched your stream. Don't take it personnally, but you're not that good on the Raider. Yes you are doing well, and you are winning. But that's a matter of time for you to get destroyed by players who KNOWS to PARRY and know to COUNTER BREAK GUARD.

You are so spotted with all that grabs and your heavy unblocable dude if you go to a rough opponent they'll just chain light attacks whenever u try to guard break and parry your heavy unblockable so you'll be useless. Of course, your playstyle fits the way you play because most of your kills are coming to a guy 3v1 and heavy unblockable him or making him fall of a cliff. I'm not arguing about your playstyle, it is viable and it is working.

But in a DUEL or vs GOOD players, you will not be successful due to the simple fact that a real intelligent player will maybe get once by your tactic, but will destroy you the other times.

Once again let me be clear, the Raider IS viable. You can win and you can go 23-0 (my best, i'm sure there are lot of betters players than me with higher scores)
At a certain lvl of decent play, the Raider is underpowered vs other classes because of that disadvantage :

EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.

This is not hard to understand, and as I previously said, DO THE TEST. Go in duel mode vs any class, guard break and compare the timing to the others. The Raider guard break last shorter than all of the others, that is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to go for a guaranteed HEAVY attack (not unblockable). Get it ?

Now once you done that test, try playing with other chars, guard break heavy and you'll see the difference.

The real issue is this : Why every class can guard break + heavy but not the Raider ?

TL24SS
02-16-2017, 05:51 PM
What is your video trying to prove ? Throwing down an exhausted ennemy gives you one free heavy, this is something every class can do and you won't be able to do this with a brained player. You call it oneshot when you need to grab and exhaust an ennemy to throw him to the ground and give him 2 hits (heavy + unblockable). You're not really honest there.

Apart of that you're not able to land a single heavy to anyone after a guard break or a wall stun ! They don't even need to parry, just block.

Obviously you played vs not very good people. I've been curious so I watched your stream. Don't take it personnally, but you're not that good on the Raider. Yes you are doing well, and you are winning. But that's a matter of time for you to get destroyed by players who KNOWS to PARRY and know to COUNTER BREAK GUARD.

You are so spotted with all that grabs and your heavy unblocable dude if you go to a rough opponent they'll just chain light attacks whenever u try to guard break and parry your heavy unblockable so you'll be useless. Of course, your playstyle fits the way you play because most of your kills are coming to a guy 3v1 and heavy unblockable him or making him fall of a cliff. I'm not arguing about your playstyle, it is viable and it is working.

But in a DUEL or vs GOOD players, you will not be successful due to the simple fact that a real intelligent player will maybe get once by your tactic, but will destroy you the other times.

Once again let me be clear, the Raider IS viable. You can win and you can go 23-0 (my best, i'm sure there are lot of betters players than me with higher scores)
At a certain lvl of decent play, the Raider is underpowered vs other classes because of that disadvantage :

EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.

This is not hard to understand, and as I previously said, DO THE TEST. Go in duel mode vs any class, guard break and compare the timing to the others. The Raider guard break last shorter than all of the others, that is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to go for a guaranteed HEAVY attack (not unblockable). Get it ?

Now once you done that test, try playing with other chars, guard break heavy and you'll see the difference.

The real issue is this : Why every class can guard break + heavy but not the Raider ?

Hit the nail my friend, it's unreal that the Raider can't land a single f'ing Heavy Attack after a GB. Only a Light Attack will land and by that time they will have recovered and will either parry or block the Light Attack combo. I love the Raider but god damn it needs a buff HARD.

Maasik
02-16-2017, 11:23 PM
Hit the nail my friend, it's unreal that the Raider can't land a single f'ing Heavy Attack after a GB. Only a Light Attack will land and by that time they will have recovered and will either parry or block the Light Attack combo. I love the Raider but god damn it needs a buff HARD.

He actually does not need to be buffed hard at all.. he just needs a guarenteed guard break after a parry (like everyone else) and 1 guarenteed heavy after a guard break (like everyone else). It would also be nice of when throwing people into walls (sideways or backwards, not the knee) that he be able to consistently heavy attack. As currently he can do it, but you must be in a side stance before the grab and you cannot switch stances or wait even a second to start the heavy attack.. which is kinda dumb considering the warden can throw into wall, switch to top stance, and still land the top heavy consistently.

Really he just needs to be able to do what everyone else can already do, even if they have to cut back the heavy damage a little to compensate itd be incredibly beneficial.

TTVPappusGaming
02-17-2017, 01:35 AM
What is your video trying to prove ? Throwing down an exhausted ennemy gives you one free heavy, this is something every class can do and you won't be able to do this with a brained player. You call it oneshot when you need to grab and exhaust an ennemy to throw him to the ground and give him 2 hits (heavy + unblockable). You're not really honest there.

Apart of that you're not able to land a single heavy to anyone after a guard break or a wall stun ! They don't even need to parry, just block.

Obviously you played vs not very good people. I've been curious so I watched your stream. Don't take it personnally, but you're not that good on the Raider. Yes you are doing well, and you are winning. But that's a matter of time for you to get destroyed by players who KNOWS to PARRY and know to COUNTER BREAK GUARD.

You are so spotted with all that grabs and your heavy unblocable dude if you go to a rough opponent they'll just chain light attacks whenever u try to guard break and parry your heavy unblockable so you'll be useless. Of course, your playstyle fits the way you play because most of your kills are coming to a guy 3v1 and heavy unblockable him or making him fall of a cliff. I'm not arguing about your playstyle, it is viable and it is working.

But in a DUEL or vs GOOD players, you will not be successful due to the simple fact that a real intelligent player will maybe get once by your tactic, but will destroy you the other times.

Once again let me be clear, the Raider IS viable. You can win and you can go 23-0 (my best, i'm sure there are lot of betters players than me with higher scores)
At a certain lvl of decent play, the Raider is underpowered vs other classes because of that disadvantage :

EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.

This is not hard to understand, and as I previously said, DO THE TEST. Go in duel mode vs any class, guard break and compare the timing to the others. The Raider guard break last shorter than all of the others, that is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to go for a guaranteed HEAVY attack (not unblockable). Get it ?

Now once you done that test, try playing with other chars, guard break heavy and you'll see the difference.

The real issue is this : Why every class can guard break + heavy but not the Raider ?

1. Raider can guardbreak into unblockable for 28 dmg. That is pretty close to what other classes heavy actually do. It does cost a good amount of stamina.
2. The video is not showing ONE heavy from exhaustion but one heavy + unblockable for 95 dmg, The bot there is not failing to block/dodge/parry - he cannot because that is a true combo.

Titzi-
02-17-2017, 01:57 AM
See, finally we get to it.

1 - Exactly the problem, you said it yourself. Raider can breakguard onto unblockable for 28 dmg and half of his stamina and still get parried / dodged. Not to mention that doing the unblockable out of the combo reduce the dmg by 50% that is a ****ty move. What does other classes do ? They just hit heavies after the guardbreak :)

2 - That's what I said, you do in the video a nice combo that i'm doing whenever I can also because IT IS EFFECTIVE. However, factors for this to happen = Bad ennemy, Out of Stamina, Guardbreak into throw (meaning you don't get counter guardbreak) and then you can Heavy + Unblockable for a guaranteed KILL.

I love this combo, don't get me wrong, but do you see that for all of this to happen we have opponents that can just guard break and heavy you for the same result ?

Now in my first post as I said, I think if they fix the guard break of the Raider, then he might become overpowered due to the dmg he does, and then a nerf to the dmg will come.

All of this doesn't mean that Raider is **** or can't outplay ennemies. Just that others can punish every mistake you make whilst as a Raider you must use more tools for the same result.

Guard break into heavy as a Raider = you get parried
Guard break into heavy as another class = you do dmg.

TTVPappusGaming
02-17-2017, 02:11 AM
See, finally we get to it.

1 - Exactly the problem, you said it yourself. Raider can breakguard onto unblockable for 28 dmg and half of his stamina and still get parried / dodged. Not to mention that doing the unblockable out of the combo reduce the dmg by 50% that is a ****ty move. What does other classes do ? They just hit heavies after the guardbreak :)

2 - That's what I said, you do in the video a nice combo that i'm doing whenever I can also because IT IS EFFECTIVE. However, factors for this to happen = Bad ennemy, Out of Stamina, Guardbreak into throw (meaning you don't get counter guardbreak) and then you can Heavy + Unblockable for a guaranteed KILL.

I love this combo, don't get me wrong, but do you see that for all of this to happen we have opponents that can just guard break and heavy you for the same result ?

Now in my first post as I said, I think if they fix the guard break of the Raider, then he might become overpowered due to the dmg he does, and then a nerf to the dmg will come.

All of this doesn't mean that Raider is **** or can't outplay ennemies. Just that others can punish every mistake you make whilst as a Raider you must use more tools for the same result.

Guard break into heavy as a Raider = you get parried
Guard break into heavy as another class = you do dmg.

I am getting honestly tired of talking in this forum. Guardbreak into unblockable cannot be parried and still does 28 dmg. Others do 30 with their heavies so the only real difference is ****ing 2 dmg. You might cry here about the stamina cost, but you know what? Guardbreak into a wall for a top heavy for 45 dmg and look how many can do THAT.

2. Exhausting an enemy is a thing of 1-2 parries. That has nothing to do with a ****ing bad opponent it has to do with you being good. Parry the zoneattack of a warden and you get the guardbreak automatically and he is exhausted. Boom 95 dmg for parrying his zoneattack. Sounds bad? Is the warden bad for throwing out his zoneattack? No he isnt.

He has tons of dmg and honestly most duels I play I exhaust the enemy. I might not get the guardbreak because I mess up the punishment time, but I do get the exhaust and if my GB punish connects as it should they can say goodbye to their healthbar.

Is it fun having to rely on parrying for everything? Depends, but don't say he can't do zip****. You parry with him appropriately ppl start ****ting their pants. I get parried by a warden i don't even care his heavies hit like noodles.

Titzi-
02-17-2017, 02:49 AM
Guardbreak into unblockable can of course be parried or dodged. I do it all the time vs other Raiders because it is so predictable and slow it's a guaranteed parry or dodge and stun + punishment. Not to mention I can just counter guard break if my reactions are correct.

Once again, do the test. Go into duel mode and guard break your opponent. Then get guard breaked by your opponent and calculate the difference, it's easy to do.

And of course all of this has to do with good players. You think that if you parry once in a duel your opponent will let you come in ? Of course not, good players will tempo the fight. So as I said, it's a nice combo and it works, but don't think you'll do it twice or more in a duel vs an experimented player.

Keep going, if you like Raider and enjoy it. I do. I can still say FACTS and that's why i'm objective with it. Slower guard break = no heavy guaranteed, opponent's guard break = heavy guaranteed.

That is all to be discussed. Mind play and dueling someone with your combo or any other tactics will be effective or not DEPENDING of the opponent's skill. You can't argue that.

Right now most of the people are very bad at Counter guard break but you'll see the problem once you fight fame 3-4 orochi's :cool:

TTVPappusGaming
02-17-2017, 03:06 AM
Guardbreak into unblockable can of course be parried or dodged. I do it all the time vs other Raiders because it is so predictable and slow it's a guaranteed parry or dodge and stun + punishment. Not to mention I can just counter guard break if my reactions are correct.

Once again, do the test. Go into duel mode and guard break your opponent. Then get guard breaked by your opponent and calculate the difference, it's easy to do.

And of course all of this has to do with good players. You think that if you parry once in a duel your opponent will let you come in ? Of course not, good players will tempo the fight. So as I said, it's a nice combo and it works, but don't think you'll do it twice or more in a duel vs an experimented player.

Keep going, if you like Raider and enjoy it. I do. I can still say FACTS and that's why i'm objective with it. Slower guard break = no heavy guaranteed, opponent's guard break = heavy guaranteed.

That is all to be discussed. Mind play and dueling someone with your combo or any other tactics will be effective or not DEPENDING of the opponent's skill. You can't argue that.

Right now most of the people are very bad at Counter guard break but you'll see the problem once you fight fame 3-4 orochi's :cool:

I already did the test and it isnt dodge/parryable.

Titzi-
02-17-2017, 04:50 AM
Dude I think we don't play the same game.

Would have been honorable from you to just understand that you have good tactics and manage to do well but don't lie to people. Unblockable attack of Raider is dodgeable / parryable, as a single blow, part of a combo or after a guard break.

The only time it isn't is when you get your opponent out of stamina and throw him to the ground.

Now if you still deny this, you don't what you're talking about and everyone here can do the test or post a video of parrying / dodgin it.

The Raider is fine as he is. Once again we're saying that he can't land heavy after guard break and that is 100% FACT. Raider guard break last under a sec, while others last at least a sec, you can even see this in the advanced training mode's first step with the grab guy.

Everyone here got the fact that you manage well with Raider and that he is a good char. He's just under the others because of that "small" disadvantage. Practice duels with rank4 pple as there is now and come back and tell me you won't be annoyed by the free heavies they get from a guard break, making it more difficult for a Raider to win the fight because you have to use more mechanics, and counter break everytime. No place for mistakes.

Try and get rank2 with another char and you'll see how you'll perform much more better.

Nightarc0487
02-17-2017, 05:03 AM
What is teching? You guys keep saying teching, and I cannot figure out what it means.

pongkrit03
02-17-2017, 05:14 AM
Just ignore him Tizzi ... waste time.

...

Jarnhand
02-17-2017, 08:31 AM
EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.



Agree with your post, but I am sure this is NOT correct based on my experience with my Warlord.

I made a post about it on this forum because I am confused on how it is supposed to work, since on some classes its hit and on others its 'magically blocked'.

Jarnhand
02-17-2017, 08:56 AM
Just ignore him Tizzi ... waste time.

...

He is no doubt a good player, and I am thankful for what he is doing with his guide etc. Its just that some people will never admit 'so and so' class is gimped/nerfed/underpowered, and keep saying its ok based on 'try harding'. I kinda admire this, since I am the totally opposite; I get frustrated very fast when I see class imbalances, as now with the Raider. I wish I were more optimistic and 'try harder', but for some reason I gravitate towards the underdog classes, and like playing classes that are less played. The problem is, that combined with easily getting frustrated is a BAD COMBO.

I will just copy myself again:
A good player that learn all the moves etc, will do good on all classes, even the underpowered ones to a certain degree, but will completely stomp 'everyone' on a good class.
A mediocre/new player will do ok on a good class, but will get wrecked on a bad class.

corac34
02-17-2017, 08:45 PM
Agreed, Raider is my favourite class by far. but by far they are also the worst class balance wise. they need to fix some things like this. raider players literally need to be twice as good as their opponent to win any duels at the moment.

vaaloki
02-17-2017, 09:24 PM
Has anyone landed a combo with a raider? I haven't in 5 hrs of playing one..
Their heavy speed and wind up is too slow..

TTVPappusGaming
02-17-2017, 10:52 PM
Dude I think we don't play the same game.

Would have been honorable from you to just understand that you have good tactics and manage to do well but don't lie to people. Unblockable attack of Raider is dodgeable / parryable, as a single blow, part of a combo or after a guard break.

The only time it isn't is when you get your opponent out of stamina and throw him to the ground.

Now if you still deny this, you don't what you're talking about and everyone here can do the test or post a video of parrying / dodgin it.

The Raider is fine as he is. Once again we're saying that he can't land heavy after guard break and that is 100% FACT. Raider guard break last under a sec, while others last at least a sec, you can even see this in the advanced training mode's first step with the grab guy.

Everyone here got the fact that you manage well with Raider and that he is a good char. He's just under the others because of that "small" disadvantage. Practice duels with rank4 pple as there is now and come back and tell me you won't be annoyed by the free heavies they get from a guard break, making it more difficult for a Raider to win the fight because you have to use more mechanics, and counter break everytime. No place for mistakes.

Try and get rank2 with another char and you'll see how you'll perform much more better.

Just add me on uplay. My name is right there and I will show you guardbreak into unblockable and then you learned something. The tests I did showed no block markers for the enemy, the test I did with my buddy did not allow him to dodge or parry out simple as that. Am I happy that our guardbreak punish in the open eats 50% stamina - no, but it is alright. Could be truly nothing coming close to a heavy in dmg.

Maasik
02-17-2017, 11:40 PM
I think its kind of a joke that Valkyre got buffs and Raider didnt get any love. At least the Valkyre has consistent combos and a 50/50 off shield bash..

Titzi-
02-18-2017, 12:31 AM
Just add me on uplay. My name is right there and I will show you guardbreak into unblockable and then you learned something. The tests I did showed no block markers for the enemy, the test I did with my buddy did not allow him to dodge or parry out simple as that. Am I happy that our guardbreak punish in the open eats 50% stamina - no, but it is alright. Could be truly nothing coming close to a heavy in dmg.

Apologies, tested it again and you're correct.

So there is only two times you can hit with a guaranteed heavy unblockable by the Raider = guardbreak + unblockable and guardbreak+ throwing down out of stamina ennemy.

Still, it doesn't change a thing to the subject as the other classes can just guardbreak + heavy guaranteed whereas WE have to do guardbreak + unblockable for the same result except that you'll use more than half of your stamina for this.

Not to mention, I just tested it few seconds ago vs a Warlord fame 3 lvl 79equipment with full attack/defense and the guardbreak + unblockable only removed one bar of his life.
He just got the advantage after that because I was almost out of stamina so I needed to disengage, if not he's the one who will headbutt + throw you exhausted to the ground and that's almost over.

Sounds like a disadvantage. Keep in mind that there is equipments with stats when we're testing all of that so in duel mode it's not the same.

Anyway keep playing Raider and get better at it everyone so we can share.

Baron_Kreight
02-18-2017, 01:16 AM
raider has insane damage. I guess the payoff is his low speed. You know he can one-two shot people after they drop on the ground from his revenge.

TTVPappusGaming
02-18-2017, 02:04 AM
Apologies, tested it again and you're correct.

So there is only two time you can hit with a guaranteed heavy unblockable by the Raider = guardbreak + unblockable and guardbreak+ throwing down out of stamina ennemy.

Still, it doesn't change a thing to the subject as the other classes can just guardbreak + heavy guaranteed whereas WE have to do guardbreak + unblockable for the same result except that you'll use more than half of your stamina for this.

Not to mention, I just tested it few seconds ago vs a Jarl fame 3 lvl 79equipment with full attack/defense and the guardbreak + unblockable only removed one bar of his life.
He just got the advantage after that because I was almost out of stamina so I needed to disengage, if not he's the one who will headbutt + throw you exhausted to the ground and that's almost over.

Sounds like a disadvantage. Keep in mind that there is equipments with stats when we're testing all of that so in duel mode it's not the same.

Anyway keep playing Raider and get better at it everyone so we can share.

It is a bit tough to compare characters like this. You are saying OTHER characters get heavies yeah but also not ALL heavies. A warden? He gets sideheavy so that is 30 dmg. No matter what gear - all chars have access to the same gear after all. However what happens at walls? Suddenly the raider has the edge in terms of mix-ups and threats.

I don't say the raider is top tier or anything. I just gather correct information and tell you guys how it is and what you can and cannot do.

Also think about removing at least a couple of wrong things you said. Personally I don't care, but the next noob that goes in here will read maybe up to page 3-4, read what you say and the others that were simply wrong and believe it won't work either. These forums are full of wrong information on many chars and aspects and it keeps growing because the next guy picks it up.

Titzi-
02-18-2017, 04:12 AM
Not removing anything, I was wrong to say that after a guardbreak the unblockable is parryable/dodgeable. It isn't and I acknowledge it.

Don't make me say what I didn't, except this mistake, I still say simple things.

Raider guardbreak last shorter than any other classes, that is fact, tested again and again in duel mode.
Raider guardbreak does not guarantee heavy strike from any position. Other classes do.

Earlier I was in duel with an Orochi renown 4. The guy was a beast.
We had an intense fight that lasted maybe 1-2 minutes, but in the end he killed me because whenever he guarbreaked me and I didn't counter (my mistake) I got punished by heavy.
This happened only once in the fight, twice in the second round. But that bit of damage makes a huge difference in duel and the way you need to play.
Why can't Raider do this ? Sure you can unblockable like you said but it's 50% of stamina.

As I said in my first post, for me, the Raider isn't overpowered, but is not bad tho. Still Viable. Way harder than other classes because of that disadvantage. Now if they fix this (either the guardbreak that I'm not sure if the developers made it shorter for the Raider on purpose, or if it's a mistake or a bug) this may propulse the Raider into GOD tier because of the damage he would get from easy guardbreaks.

Varicose_Veins
02-18-2017, 07:02 AM
BUMP

Raider & Kensai really need some loving.

The Valkyrie is getting some attention next patch so why not these two as well? Surely a few tweaks would help their viability.

JayshxD
02-18-2017, 08:32 AM
as a main raider/lawbringer and berserker i think that yes he needs a little buff, they should put him a heavy combo that can be started with light atack like all other slow characters can if not he is so ****ing slow that any decent player can parry heavys and punish you xD. a fun fact , yesterday i was playing 1 duel and i nearly lost it with raider but i win easily with the lawbringer (who is not THAT good) even using the raider better.

TTVPappusGaming
02-18-2017, 11:26 AM
Not removing anything, I was wrong to say that after a guardbreak the unblockable is parryable/dodgeable. It isn't and I acknowledge it.

snip.

Taking down an orochi means parrying a total of 3 times: Top Light or dodge attack. You parry one of those you answer with straight op heavy for 45. Hold your basic block on the right to keep away the zoneattack. Feint a coult of times to bait him into dodge attack if he seems to only dodge, feint -> grab -> unblockable. I know it is tough, but as I said the match can be over with as little as 3 parries. Orochi can't parry you 3 times for the kill as an example.

Titzi-
02-18-2017, 03:24 PM
Must you be blind or deaf ?

I have no particular trouble against any class (said it like in all my posts), for me, the hardest to play against is Orochi, that can be different for people as it is only a feeling. Does not mean I can't win or get destroyed by every Orochi.

Once again your response is out of the subject. Yes you can parry 3 times an Orochi (this guy must be dumb to get baited like this, smart orochi will trade off after the first parry and recover but anyway in a low lvl scenario it works)
Yes you can do damage and kill, yes you can win duels.

How does it cost from you to achieve this ? More than other classes. Why ? Because guardbreak has no guaranteed heavy as Raider.



Ok so there is a lot of whining on the forums.. like a lot haha but hear me out.

The Raider is someone who is supposed to throw people around and hit hard, thats all well and good. But as a character thats meant to literally man-handle everyone else and chop them to pieces.. why is he the only vanguard character that does not get a guaranteed guardbreak after a successful parry? Plus even when he does land a guard break, none of his heavy attacks are guaranteed either. Granted, he has an unblockable that can be fainted.. but I feel like the damage it does for the amount of stamina it costs makes it not even worth throwing out unless its to end a chain, and even then its quite easy to parry and after the chain you might not have enough stamina to spare to try and feint it into something else.

So at high level where people are teching guard break attempts consistently, this leaves you with this playstyle of slowly chipping away at your opponents health with light attacks and stunning taps, which is very counter-intuitive to the Raiders archetype. Yes, you can do heavy into light cancels (which are all a high), heavy feint into guard breaks (which people can tech), or baiting out a move and get a dashing stunning tap (gimmicky and guarentees you no real follow up).. but at a high level you have no real way of opening a reactive defensive player up or getting any worthwhile damage in.

Maybe I just suck and need to "get good", but i feel like the Raider fails to do what he's supposed to excel at and the risk/reward isnt even in his favor seeing as your left with only doing light attacks after successful parries, forward throws, and stunning taps. Ideally if the Raider were to be adjusted, all I would want is guaranteed guard breaks after parries and 1 guarenteed heavy attack after both a guard break and a forward throw where you chuck the opponent to the ground (not when you stun them against a wall).

This could be a topic where we could talk for days about Raider's combo and how to manage to get out of dirty fights, but as stated the OP, we're discussing about Raider not being a Raider and being under the other classes because of one simple fact : no guaranteed heavy after guard break.

No matter what techniques can be used to replace this combo, it is weird that instead of guardbreaking and heavy like every char in the game Raider requires :

- Reactions (parry)
- Dumb ennemy (who will get parried 2 times or more)
- Even dumber ennemy, who will fall for the same combo in 3 rounds.
- High stamina cost

Ennemy just need to guardbreak and punish with heavy if you don't counterbreak. End of story.

PS : We love Raider probably as much as you do (the only char I enjoy playing). But why every guardbreak in this game last longer than the Raider ? Is it on purpose from the devs ? Is it a bug ?

IamheiN
02-18-2017, 03:43 PM
He's too easy to parry, the damage they do is not enough for the slow moves they have

ZoRG-X01
02-18-2017, 07:27 PM
I,m sick of this.
- Guy attack me, i parry then dash into grab but NO i just going to stand here and counter guard break you and don't give a f.
- Guy attack me i parry stuning tap - nope just going to stand here parry you and don't give a f.
- I Grab a guy heavy over head, NOPE, heavy side, NOPE.
- I'm, throwing a guy all over a map brake it nose 3-4 times - NO DAMAGE nothing guy just stand up and fight me and dont give a f.
- The only think i can do after a successful GB is a Fricking unbreakable that cost me 50% stamina. ( YES YOU CAN ITS A FREE UNBREAKABLE - test it before you wright something )

Every class can guard brake and heavy why on earth Raiders can't, or parry me and into a guard brake ? i love the Raider he is such a bad *** with his Dane Axe he is my main guy. At early levels i can stamp most of the players when i meat a good player it's like, can't do that, can't do that, hey you finaly grab him and throw him into the wall and brake his nose - GJ YOU DID APSOLUTLY NOTHING - hey but it look cool right ? but you can faint and then parry ? YES but what then ? light attack ?


For the love of Odin BUFF HIM.

corac34
02-19-2017, 09:47 AM
I,m sick of this.
- Guy attack me, i parry then dash into grab but NO i just going to stand here and counter guard break you and don't give a f.
- Guy attack me i parry stuning tap - nope just going to stand here parry you and don't give a f.
- I Grab a guy heavy over head, NOPE, heavy side, NOPE.
- I'm, throwing a guy all over a map brake it nose 3-4 times - NO DAMAGE nothing guy just stand up and fight me and dont give a f.
- The only think i can do after a successful GB is a Fricking unbreakable that cost me 50% stamina. ( YES YOU CAN ITS A FREE UNBREAKABLE - test it before you wright something )

Every class can guard brake and heavy why on earth Raiders can't, or parry me and into a guard brake ? i love the Raider he is such a bad *** with his Dane Axe he is my main guy. At early levels i can stamp most of the players when i meat a good player it's like, can't do that, can't do that, hey you finaly grab him and throw him into the wall and brake his nose - GJ YOU DID APSOLUTLY NOTHING - hey but it look cool right ? but you can faint and then parry ? YES but what then ? light attack ?


For the love of Odin BUFF HIM.

Agreed, how can the devs buff the valk already and leave the raider who has been broken like this for the last 2 betas? its ******ed! please ubisoft. lmao

Titzi-
02-19-2017, 02:04 PM
Ok guys, have some new info for you.

You see the nice combo PapusGaming talked about ? Parry x2 + throw down ennemy + top heavy + unblockable.
We tought it was the only heavy or combo guaranteed for the Raider.

It is not. Well, half of it is.

Just tested it 5 times in a row vs an Orochi friend. Once you throw him into the ground (out of stamina), you have the guaranteed top heavy no matter what this is a 100%
But the unblockable, know what ? An exhausted ennemy can...roll backward. After he got hit by the top heavy he jumped back all the time.

It will be very nice to see someone from Ubi getting here and talk to us about this.
Are they working on it, is it on purpose, is the Raider oriented for group battles only ? Why Raider guardbreaks last ~0.5sec while others last 1sec ?
Isn't it enough that his block stance change are one of the slowest ?

So, waiting for Ubi opinion, back at parrying for days to get a heavy from an exhausted guy or wall knock him. It is so intense to fight as Raider whereas i'm like "pff...so easy" when I play Warlord / Conq / Orochi. (Don't know about other classes did not play them much)


Ps : Keep in mind that my posts are concerned for R3+ minimum. <R3 people get baited by feints and they will just die to you no matter what char you play.
So now I just switched to Warlord for duels (orders have to be done, just switch to the Raider for the last part of the order if you want the xp). What am I doing with Warlord whenever I parry ? Punish. When I guardbreak ? Punish. + having a shield that blocks attack from everywhere + having unblockable headbutt that can be part of chains or not.

Not judging if the Warlord is op or not, just saying that the game is like 30x easier playing Warlord than Raider at high level.

TTVPappusGaming
02-19-2017, 02:52 PM
Ok guys, have some new info for you.

snip

Oh nice find I will check out to confirm straight away. Technically you can't even roll without stamina, but I will check regardless

Tested on Orochi 3 times. Orochi couldn't roll in time because of no stam and got hit. Now switching to someone with exhaustion recovery gear to see if something can be done there.

Titzi-
02-19-2017, 02:56 PM
Oh nice find I will check out to confirm straight away. Technically you can't even roll without stamina, but I will check regardless

That's what I taught, but the secound round he did it and same in the 3rd. So asked him to come on practice and we did the test. Was very surprised that he could roll out.

Also, have no idea if it's specific to Orochi or not, so need to test more.

TTVPappusGaming
02-19-2017, 03:26 PM
That's what I taught, but the secound round he did it and same in the 3rd. So asked him to come on practice and we did the test. Was very surprised that he could roll out.

Also, have no idea if it's specific to Orochi or not, so need to test more.

My orochi couldn't roll out, however you have to understand the combo only works in the open with gear. Otherwise you need a wall. Only if you have negative throwing distance can you do it in the open otherwise some kind of object is needed to reduce the distance your opponent stumbles backwards after the throw.

Without gear and feats orochi didn't have stamina to roll to begin with so the combo remained secure near a wall. With gear in the open it still remained a true combo wether the opponent had stamina or not because he couldn't act before the hit.

Tests done on orochi and conqueror 10 times each variant.

Titzi-
02-19-2017, 04:12 PM
My orochi couldn't roll out, however you have to understand the combo only works in the open with gear. Otherwise you need a wall. Only if you have negative throwing distance can you do it in the open otherwise some kind of object is needed to reduce the distance your opponent stumbles backwards after the throw.

Without gear and feats orochi didn't have stamina to roll to begin with so the combo remained secure near a wall. With gear in the open it still remained a true combo wether the opponent had stamina or not because he couldn't act before the hit.

Tests done on orochi and conqueror 10 times each variant.

I did not test the combo over the wall, only to the ground. And after the top heavy he was able to roll out.
It was duel mode so no gear and no feats. Will retry with the same Orochi (added him to FL) and will keep you informed.

He rolled out with the grey energy so looks like he didnt need stamina to do it. Will be back in few hours let me check this out


if you have negative throwing distance can you do it in the open otherwise some kind of object is needed to reduce the distance your opponent stumbles backwards after the throw.

Are you saying the combo is guaranteed in duel mode only by throwing to the wall ? Since no gear is on ?

TTVPappusGaming
02-19-2017, 04:25 PM
I did not test the combo over the wall, only to the ground. And after the top heavy he was able to roll out.
It was duel mode so no gear and no feats. Will retry with the same Orochi (added him to FL) and will keep you informed.

He rolled out with the grey energy so looks like he didnt need stamina to do it. Will be back in few hours let me check this out



Are you saying the combo is guaranteed in duel mode only by throwing to the wall ? Since no gear is on ?

Not necessarily wall, anything really. I didn't test every object in the book but like a small stumb would be enough, anything that prevents further stumbling. Doesn't need to be a wall but yes the combo does not work in the total open otherwise without gear. Luckily most fights in duels are always near a wall. Technically the object needs to be on your left or behind you too.

The wallthrow is also not simply sidethrow to the wall it has to be the holding backwards sprinning throw or backthrow.

Titzi-
02-19-2017, 07:03 PM
I was unable to avoid the unblockable as an Orochi, a Warlord or a Raider. I was about to give up when the guy came online.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xnv1A49qO0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po6nowvWZ4A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX9t553TUt8

This may happen because i'm throwing down him too quickly. I need to test if he can do the same with a full rotating throw.

He said to me, that the timing to dash it out is the same as to deflect as an Orochi. Obviously this needs more investigation.
To be honest tough, he did dash out maybe 5 times out of 10 so that is still hard to dash apparently

RazorBack489
02-19-2017, 07:55 PM
The reason he is dodging the second attack is because you are throwing him on the ground. Throw him behind you into a wall or some other object. Then he will fall over onto the ground and you can get the 2 hit in.

TTVPappusGaming
02-19-2017, 08:15 PM
I was unable to avoid the unblockable as an Orochi, a Warlord or a Raider. I was about to give up when the guy came online.



This may happen because i'm throwing down him too quickly. I need to test if he can do the same with a full rotating throw.

He said to me, that the timing to dash it out is the same as to deflect as an Orochi. Obviously this needs more investigation.
To be honest tough, he did dash out maybe 5 times out of 10 so that is still hard to dash apparently

Razorback is correct the combo in the open doesnt work like that. Your top heavy connects too late so it triggers the wakeup. As I explained in my video if you hit him with the overhead and he remains on the ground still all is good otherwise you broke the combo or it simply doesnt work there so cancel the zoneattack.

The combo in the open does only work with throw distance gear in the negative.

is.that.mojo
02-19-2017, 10:18 PM
Taking down an orochi means parrying a total of 3 times: Top Light or dodge attack. You parry one of those you answer with straight op heavy for 45.

Are you saying you get a free Top Heavy if you parry a light attack? Or are you saying that will drain enough of their stamina to get a guardbreak->exhaustion->knockdown->top heavy? Just clarifying.

TTVPappusGaming
02-19-2017, 10:34 PM
Are you saying you get a free Top Heavy if you parry a light attack? Or are you saying that will drain enough of their stamina to get a guardbreak->exhaustion->knockdown->top heavy? Just clarifying.

Parrying a top light / side light / dodge attack or forward dash attack of orochi is punishable with a top heavy of the raider (or guardbreak if ledge kill or exhaustion kill combo is availible)

is.that.mojo
02-19-2017, 10:36 PM
Parrying a top light / side light / dodge attack or forward dash attack of orochi is punishable with a top heavy of the raider (or guardbreak if ledge kill or exhaustion kill combo is availible)

Oh nice, I didn't know that. Is that the case vs any other characters? Thanks

Titzi-
02-19-2017, 11:03 PM
You are right. It is the reason why it worked in Dominion (I run with low throwing) and not in duel.

This mean there is even more factors to get this combo done, even if it's still viable and atm few players dodge it (only this Orochi found the timing in my games).

It's nice that we have some solutions here but still, why this when guardbreak + heavy :confused:. Will keep playing my favorite Raider in Dominion / Deathmatch but in Duels, i'll just run anything else.

TTVPappusGaming
02-19-2017, 11:49 PM
Oh nice, I didn't know that. Is that the case vs any other characters? Thanks

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1579569-Raider-How-to-kill-after-a-single-grab-Ascertain-Dominance

This is the raider guide and the place you should go if you want to learn. The PDF has the punishment table you are looking for. Every move in the game was parried and tested all information in that guide is correct and checked.

Godsplitter1991
02-20-2017, 02:00 AM
I actually enjoy playing raider. After wrecking everyone with no competition in sight with warlord and berserker it got kinda boring. Getting good with this guy feels much more rewarding. Plus he's badass. I guess the reason why he can't get guaranteed heavies on guard breaks is because if ONE heavy lands that's almost half of someone's health. Still, I should be able to do more with a wall stun. Because if you allow someone to do that to you then you deserve whatever comes at you

Jarnhand
02-20-2017, 08:25 AM
Agreed, how can the devs buff the valk already and leave the raider who has been broken like this for the last 2 betas? its ******ed! please ubisoft. lmao

I am guessing they are afraid of all the whining from 'the on trick pony kids' on their Warden/Peacekeeper/Orochi/Conqueror not being able to free-farm Viking any more. What would the world become if they could not continue to get easy wins and spam their emotes any more!!!!111111oneoneoneone :rolleyes:

rabidrabbit133
02-20-2017, 11:22 AM
I found it a little odd that I can bring an axe crashing down on someones head and he just kinda blocks it with his katana and side step out of the way like I hit him with a pool noodle...but yea totally legit, thats how physics works, small light objects are ideal for stopping larger heavier objects moving at high speed.

Egotistic_Ez
02-20-2017, 11:44 AM
I found it a little odd that I can bring an axe crashing down on someones head and he just kinda blocks it with his katana and side step out of the way like I hit him with a pool noodle...but yea totally legit, thats how physics works, small light objects are ideal for stopping larger heavier objects moving at high speed.

Yes because fighting games are always balanced around real world physics. Next you'll want me to start doing trig to calculate hadouken projectile arcs.

Jarnhand
02-20-2017, 01:23 PM
Yes because fighting games are always balanced around real world physics. Next you'll want me to start doing trig to calculate hadouken projectile arcs.

Well they actually in this game for the most part try to make it realistic, its just that some attack diverts largely from the rest of the game, like impact of heavy weapons. Wardens attacks are way too fast, and Raider attacks are way too easily blocked/parry (they should have done more block damage/drain a lot more endurance).

xXSCoNNeryXx
02-20-2017, 02:41 PM
I play raider in everything. Not just dominion.

It is obviously a struggle not going to lie. Light attack spammers seem to be my biggest issue. I can block, even parry, but I never get good follow up on it.

What I have found to work is to keep them off of you. Keep them just out range. Swing a heavy followed by a light or cancel into a tap. Feinting can help too. Supposedly you can get a top heavy off of a light parry but I havent really pulled that off yet. But what I have found is that people who do nothing but spam light attack are fairly predictable.

In the end with the raider you have to be on top of your game to win. There is no easy win in 1v1 with raider if the opponent knows what they are doing. There are plenty of people who play him and make it work at the higher levels.

If you are looking for a character with consistent combos that you can repeat over and over the raiders not that hero. I wouldn't call him unviable hes just not as, consistent.

TTVPappusGaming
02-20-2017, 05:52 PM
I play raider in everything. Not just dominion.

It is obviously a struggle not going to lie. Light attack spammers seem to be my biggest issue. I can block, even parry, but I never get good follow up on it.

What I have found to work is to keep them off of you. Keep them just out range. Swing a heavy followed by a light or cancel into a tap. Feinting can help too. Supposedly you can get a top heavy off of a light parry but I havent really pulled that off yet. But what I have found is that people who do nothing but spam light attack are fairly predictable.

In the end with the raider you have to be on top of your game to win. There is no easy win in 1v1 with raider if the opponent knows what they are doing. There are plenty of people who play him and make it work at the higher levels.

If you are looking for a character with consistent combos that you can repeat over and over the raiders not that hero. I wouldn't call him unviable hes just not as, consistent.

Honestly I start believing that the raider is actually one of the strongest chars out there solely based on his zoneattack. The sole reason that it can be feinted is just huge. Additionally you have the 95 dmg combo of a successfull parry that exhausted your enemy and all you really need is a wall.

I havent done the videoediting and all that but since you say you struggle against lightspammers (and I supposed orochi is the main one?) I will show you an unlisted video how todefend against that. It doesn't have my voice explaining so here a couple of words:

At this point I am unable to parry top light on reaction consistently so I can't afford to challenge it. I can parry the zoneattack pretty consistently and the rest aswell. I can't really differentiate yet between a light side swing and a heavy of the orochi so I usually don't go after them to avoid the risk of feinting. Obviously that is a git gud problem on my end not on the raiders or I definitely could go for parries on the sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eJ-fqMB5IA

here you go as an example and I could be by far better with parries and blocks.

TL24SS
02-20-2017, 07:18 PM
Honestly I start believing that the raider is actually one of the strongest chars out there solely based on his zoneattack. The sole reason that it can be feinted is just huge. Additionally you have the 95 dmg combo of a successfull parry that exhausted your enemy and all you really need is a wall.

I havent done the videoediting and all that but since you say you struggle against lightspammers (and I supposed orochi is the main one?) I will show you an unlisted video how todefend against that. It doesn't have my voice explaining so here a couple of words:

At this point I am unable to parry top light on reaction consistently so I can't afford to challenge it. I can parry the zoneattack pretty consistently and the rest aswell. I can't really differentiate yet between a light side swing and a heavy of the orochi so I usually don't go after them to avoid the risk of feinting. Obviously that is a git gud problem on my end not on the raiders or I definitely could go for parries on the sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eJ-fqMB5IA

here you go as an example and I could be by far better with parries and blocks.

Excellent stuff man, someday I'll be as good as you lol.

Ausweisen
02-22-2017, 10:36 PM
I guess someone replied to me earlier. Sorry if you thought I was ignoring, it's just that why should I argue about a class you don't want to play? If you don't like raider then don't ****in play it yeah? Not rocket science. The people who want to be good at raider will be good at raider. The rest will spout some crap that I no longer have the time, patience or interest in reading. If I'm telling you one thing and you vehemently refuse to acknowledge it due to your inability to take a step back, calm down and reflect then it's your personal problem. Not mine.

Now am I the best Raider alive? pfft **** no and my win ratio is only 70% with him. I'm a novice at best, but a novice that spent hours in practice mode with my eyes closed learning to GB and then working on my parries until I wanted to kick grass like the badass I clearly must be.

To the turd from southeast asia that doesn't know how to read: Yes, CLEARLY I've never ever played a different hero. Not at all. Nope. Not a single prestige anywhere else.


TL;DR "Proper Prior Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance" and as an added remark...don't be a win ratio nerd like me(70% is garbo in my books). Just play and have fun and eventually you'll prolly get way better than me...or you'll make more excuses. Either way.

Maasik
02-25-2017, 03:52 AM
So I was just dueling with a buddy of mine, and he parried my guardbreak into unblockable combo.. I wasnt out of stamina or anything so Im a little confused how this happened.

Is this not a true combo, is it timing dependent and I was a little too late with the unblockable, or was it just P2P randomness? Anybody else experienced this in duels/brawls?

Ausweisen
02-25-2017, 04:32 AM
Are you saying he broke your GB then hit you with an unblockable as a raider? It isn't unheard of if your reaction time was a little slow (happens to us all at some point, mate) or if there was some slight lag. I've only had 3 fights so far where I was lagging pretty badly. If he does get a GB on you he CAN get an unblockable as a raider on you and there isn't anything that can be done about it, but that can be countered by getting your CGB timing on point. Listen for when they touch you then as fast as you can GB.

Hopefully something in my ramblings helped, please provide more specificity if I didn't answer what you wanted.

ZoRG-X01
02-25-2017, 10:08 AM
Let's pray to Odin for a buff. I know i have to git gud but comon spending so much time on practising to be destroyed by light attacks from pk or vortex from warden, i get a parry and want to gb but nope. I know i can 2 shot sobody but samurai fatty can one shoot sombody and he have gb after a parry and a free heavy after gb + one hit shield. If you meet a good player that will block you, cgb you, parry you most of time you have little to no option to win. Maby im whining to much but it hurt me when im parring sombpdy all the time and i get nothing from it. I love Raider but now i dont play him much.

PUDZIAAAN
02-25-2017, 11:14 AM
Raider attacks are very slow and very predictable, so almost every got either interrupted or parried even after canceling and moving with another (other raider tactics to bring a hit through enemies guard usualy fail too). Im not even gonna mention amount of stamina that raider got left after such a situation. Light attack is a kinda way to deal a damage to an enemy but such a damage is very low and feels like item attack boost almost does not affect it. Only way to kill a "not newbie" player 1vs1 now is to stun / guardbreak an enemy, deal a sad light attack and move back then repeat which is not fun and feels like it doesnt fit a strong viking brute with a great 2handed axe. His strong attacks are useless plus there is no combo way to deal a strong attack after a light attack. Im not even gonna mention his unblockable which is basicly a newbie killer or a "bad luck" player killer. The only use for raider is a revenge mode build in dominion and skirmish (wait, no one plays skirmish in player vs player mode). There is no place for raider in 1vs1 and 2vs2 now.

RAIDER NEEDS AN UNINTERRUPTIBLE STRONG ATTACK (even only for the upper strong attack, leaving left and right), or some other way to deal uninterruptible damage (to for example exchange hits) in his slow moves, even for a price of his independent unblockable, to be not a single mode (dominion) class and start to matter in other game modes.
Revenge mode makes raider playable because it provides uninterruptible attacks. Damn im jealous of berserker's and warlord's strong one's.

PLEASE UBISOFT MAKE IT RIGHT.

Maasik
02-25-2017, 12:18 PM
Are you saying he broke your GB then hit you with an unblockable as a raider? It isn't unheard of if your reaction time was a little slow (happens to us all at some point, mate) or if there was some slight lag. I've only had 3 fights so far where I was lagging pretty badly. If he does get a GB on you he CAN get an unblockable as a raider on you and there isn't anything that can be done about it, but that can be countered by getting your CGB timing on point. Listen for when they touch you then as fast as you can GB.

Hopefully something in my ramblings helped, please provide more specificity if I didn't answer what you wanted.

I play Raider and when I did guard break into unblockable he parried me. Im not sure how or why as I thought unblockable was guarenteed after a guard break.. it only happened once but idk if it was a fluke or I just hesitated too long after the guard break or something.

Egotistic_Ez
02-25-2017, 02:13 PM
I play Raider and when I did guard break into unblockable he parried me. Im not sure how or why as I thought unblockable was guarenteed after a guard break.. it only happened once but idk if it was a fluke or I just hesitated too long after the guard break or something.

It's hard, but with practice the unblockable can be parried after a gb. Unless the enemy is out of stamina I'm not sure the raider has any guaranteed damage from a gb.

is.that.mojo
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
I play Raider and when I did guard break into unblockable he parried me. Im not sure how or why as I thought unblockable was guarenteed after a guard break.. it only happened once but idk if it was a fluke or I just hesitated too long after the guard break or something.

Did he happen to be an Orochi? I've had this happen to me as well, and I've seen other reporting it too. It seems the Orochi just recovers from GB faster, has time to parry the unblockable. Might be the case for other assassins too, but I've only had it happen to me vs roaches.

Ausweisen
02-26-2017, 04:28 PM
I play Raider and when I did guard break into unblockable he parried me. Im not sure how or why as I thought unblockable was guarenteed after a guard break.. it only happened once but idk if it was a fluke or I just hesitated too long after the guard break or something.

Ahhh I see. when you GB, don't hit gb again. just do the grab and immediately charge your unblockable. That has worked 100% of the time on every class for me. Again, just grab him, do not throw, push, turn etc. and no hesitation once it lands, do it.

As a Raider, if you play Dominion or Deathmatch a lot, go for gear that increases your def (you'll have a lower attack but you'll see why). After that build revenge gear (when you take damage and block fills VERY fast) and make sure your left axe is revenge attack.

Your damage won't actually be massively effected (you'll notice but still hit hard). From there you're tank and the idea is counter gb/parry and when they run out of stam, toss to the right or left so they fall on the ground. Hit first with a normal overhead followed by an unblockable. It'll wipe any assassin/ hybrid and will more than 50% vanguards (heavies it depends but usualkly 30-40%) and if you pop revenge it's good night.

OR you can build pure offense with high attack, low def and high low stam cost(or def with low stam cost if you want to be more of a bruiser). Spamming light attacks can actually throw most players off since they are expecting slow hits and grabs for set ups. Raider can play as a tank a bruiser and even a pure dps fighter. It's all about how you want to build him and your play style. The best Raider's I've seen are the ones that do not play cookie cutter style and are wicked fast with CGBs/Parries. (only takes one cgb and a parry to drain stam for most btw). best way to practice those is lvl 2 (lvl 3 is shugoki and while he's great to practice against, he isn't the standard) bot and just defend. Your blood pressure will thank you later.

your R2 is also a counter to dodge heroes if you keep a wall to your left or right ;)

uhhh kinda all I can think of on the spot. Sorry for the wall of text. Just wanna see ya'll dump on some plebs. If there's any specifics, I'll answer any that I confidently can. If I don't know, I know who to ask that would.

-Signed Lovingly,
A Raider/Zerker

TTVPappusGaming
02-26-2017, 05:21 PM
Ahhh I see. when you GB, don't hit gb again. just do the grab and immediately charge your unblockable. That has worked 100% of the time on every class for me. Again, just grab him, do not throw, push, turn etc. and no hesitation once it lands, do it.

As a Raider, if you play Dominion or Deathmatch a lot, go for gear that increases your def (you'll have a lower attack but you'll see why). After that build revenge gear (when you take damage and block fills VERY fast) and make sure your left axe is revenge attack.

Your damage won't actually be massively effected (you'll notice but still hit hard). From there you're tank and the idea is counter gb/parry and when they run out of stam, toss to the right or left so they fall on the ground. Hit first with a normal overhead followed by an unblockable. It'll wipe any assassin/ hybrid and will more than 50% vanguards (heavies it depends but usualkly 30-40%) and if you pop revenge it's good night.

OR you can build pure offense with high attack, low def and high low stam cost(or def with low stam cost if you want to be more of a bruiser). Spamming light attacks can actually throw most players off since they are expecting slow hits and grabs for set ups. Raider can play as a tank a bruiser and even a pure dps fighter. It's all about how you want to build him and your play style. The best Raider's I've seen are the ones that do not play cookie cutter style and are wicked fast with CGBs/Parries. (only takes one cgb and a parry to drain stam for most btw). best way to practice those is lvl 2 (lvl 3 is shugoki and while he's great to practice against, he isn't the standard) bot and just defend. Your blood pressure will thank you later.

your R2 is also a counter to dodge heroes if you keep a wall to your left or right ;)

uhhh kinda all I can think of on the spot. Sorry for the wall of text. Just wanna see ya'll dump on some plebs. If there's any specifics, I'll answer any that I confidently can. If I don't know, I know who to ask that would.

-Signed Lovingly,
A Raider/Zerker

If you have low defense and meet someone that has high attack he deals close to double damage to you. I am not sure if you want to be hit by 80+ heavies.

waraidako
02-26-2017, 05:23 PM
Raider needs a buff. And the female raider running animation needs to be fixed.

Ausweisen
02-26-2017, 07:18 PM
If you have low defense and meet someone that has high attack he deals close to double damage to you. I am not sure if you want to be hit by 80+ heavies.

Hence why I said work it with your playstyle. I'm all about high risk high reward and as a zerker. It forces me to play smarter and when you take out a 4v1 it's so damn satisfying knowing you outplayed them(To date I've only done it twice since my "tweaks" a week ago but it was back to back in death match...I even ran the time out lol). Am I saying do what I do? Oh gosh no. I am at a point where I am very comfortable with my zerker and raider and am willing to take the risks.

The options I provided are just different avenues for the community to consider since I know a lot still wonder about stat building. Without coming off with an ego as possible, I also feel that I bring an interesting pov to the community(that being said I also feel you do, too and the people after that will reply after also will probably have awesome opinions,too). I won't be offended if you tell me you don't like how I do things and want to go your own way but I am always humbled when people enjoy what I bring to the table. Sorry for the rant, I have this weird fascination with Life lol.

-Signed Lovingly,
A Raider/Zerker

P.S. Sorry if this was hard to read. My English is failing me atm....

TTVPappusGaming
02-26-2017, 07:43 PM
Hence why I said work it with your playstyle. I'm all about high risk high reward and as a zerker. It forces me to play smarter and when you take out a 4v1 it's so damn satisfying knowing you outplayed them(To date I've only done it twice since my "tweaks" a week ago but it was back to back in death match...I even ran the time out lol). Am I saying do what I do? Oh gosh no. I am at a point where I am very comfortable with my zerker and raider and am willing to take the risks.

The options I provided are just different avenues for the community to consider since I know a lot still wonder about stat building. Without coming off with an ego as possible, I also feel that I bring an interesting pov to the community(that being said I also feel you do, too and the people after that will reply after also will probably have awesome opinions,too). I won't be offended if you tell me you don't like how I do things and want to go your own way but I am always humbled when people enjoy what I bring to the table. Sorry for the rant, I have this weird fascination with Life lol.

-Signed Lovingly,
A Raider/Zerker

P.S. Sorry if this was hard to read. My English is failing me atm....

Dont worry all good, but I felt the need to point out how decimating hits become without defense. Stamina depletion on the other hand has neglectable benefits. It reduces the consumption rate roughly 50% and doesn't do anything during revenge, which is where we shine the most.

Maasik
02-26-2017, 07:57 PM
Did he happen to be an Orochi? I've had this happen to me as well, and I've seen other reporting it too. It seems the Orochi just recovers from GB faster, has time to parry the unblockable. Might be the case for other assassins too, but I've only had it happen to me vs roaches.

He was actually. Well then its good to know its an Orochi specific thing (so far) and will have to change my game plan accordingly. I suppose after guard break just light attack unless theres a wall nearby that grants a side heavy. Thanks for the info!

Ausweisen
02-26-2017, 08:07 PM
Dont worry all good, but I felt the need to point out how decimating hits become without defense. Stamina depletion on the other hand has neglectable benefits. It reduces the consumption rate roughly 50% and doesn't do anything during revenge, which is where we shine the most.

Yeah I know that's the current Meta it seems. It makes sense and I agree with it. I just like to be in people's faces raging and a fluffy stam bar keeps me going longer than they can keep up with in trades which causes your average player to expose himself when they are drained. Against a real competent player, yeah the stamina doesn't help as much since Im not doing combos or anything fancy. Just whittling away but I'll worry about that more as I get a bigger inventory of gear. Currently gearing my zerker first since he's at 105.