View Full Version : Warden needs a hard nerf and Warlord with a smaller one.

02-10-2017, 08:57 PM
I'll quickly go over why Warden is utterly broken and why Warlord might need a nerf.

Warden = she attacks too fast, that's all there is to it. Her light + heavy attack combo is broken. She has no counter play to her and she can hit you out of your: Heavy Attacks, Light attacks, Unblockables, and Guard Breaks. That's ****ing ridiculous guys, she can even cancel your counter strikes if she is good enough. The only thing that is decent at stopping her is unstoppable attacks (like raider), yet the ***** can just dodge out of those too. I feel like in your quest to make the Vanguards different you forgot to keep balance in mind, because it's pretty bad looking that you let this pass in a game based around timing.

Warlord = Less OP then warden. His defense is too good to have that much damage with that fast of light attacks. I can beat a Warlord if I'm way better then him but if he's on par skill wise I will lose. At least you can guard block him, unlike Warden. The Warlord one is slightly new so it's probably just me not understanding them well (even though I've played against them quite a bit). So if you have a counter argument on why Warlord is fine I'd love to discuss it.

How to balance them.

Warden = Remove her fast heavy attack completely, or make her have less health then Orochi. I would suggest a complete rework because half her combo's are braindead and borderline useless. Warden is a one-trick pony that works because she has no counter play.

Warlord = Just a small stamina nerf, make him run out faster for using his block. His light attacks are broken only because he can spam them and block constantly.

I played a small amount of Alpha and played full time on Closed (and now Open) Beta. People who say Orochi or Raider is Op haven't played enough IMO. Orochi is annoying but when you learn what heavy attacks they can't dodge out of they become pretty easy. Also positioning is vital on defeating an Orochi, make sure you move the fight to a confined space if possible. Raider's heavy attacks are very slow and easy to counter and I honestly find them the easiest class to deal with next to Peacekeeper.

If you think I'm missing some big key counter to Warden, then please tell me! Edit: I don't care about your opinion unless you can explain it, even if I disagree with you I can make a counter-argument and continue the discussion. But if all you can say is "Warden is easy to counter" then your comment is worthless. If you don't have(or want to waste) the time to explain it to me, then don't bother commenting at all, all it does is clutter the discussion.

02-10-2017, 08:59 PM
Warden is easy to counter.
Warlord on the other hand....

02-10-2017, 09:12 PM
as a warden, i have a hard time if the opponent doesn't attack from the top.
if he keeps coming at me with top attacks it'll be an easy fight though.

02-10-2017, 09:16 PM
LOL these threads. Seen 5 different class nerf requests today.
Seems Warlord is in everyones mention tho.

02-10-2017, 09:17 PM
... Really? The Warden's kit is literally just about as basic as it comes. Don't attack Top if they're ready to counter it, dodge the shoulder-charge, and you've literally taken everything from them. Beyond that, it's just business as usual with feints and getting through guard-breaks.

02-10-2017, 09:18 PM
I mainly play Kensei so that could explain it, although I definitely change up my attacks in all directions, it's only for the unblockable attack do I attack from top. Also should direction matter if you can hit them out of their attack? I'm a level 17 Kensei (although god knows what prestige I would be if Alpha carried over) and 9 Warden btw.

02-10-2017, 09:19 PM
Warlord's one of the lesser played classes, people see it less often and those who do play it usually main it. So people suddenly come against something they don't see as often, and the person behind it is likely above average. They lose horribly, and decide the problem was the class as opposed to their lack of experience.

02-10-2017, 09:20 PM
Silver 4 Warden last beta. Warden is easy to counter if you know how they work.

Warlord has to much stuff.
- Off balance when you hit their shield. Giving them a free throw or Heavy attack.
- Guard break > Attack unblockable as guard break leaves you stunned to long to be able to parry his incoming attack.
- Able to do attacks without them being canceled from damage.

Plenty more i can list.

02-10-2017, 09:28 PM
"Warlord is one of the lesser played classes" Lol, you lost all validation for your comment in one move. I can't say I know how matchmaking works so maybe they paired Alpha/Closed Beta testers together, let the noobs do their thing and that's why you haven't played against Warlords. But I do know that I get them all the time in 1v1 and 4v4 Elim. It could also be you only play 4v4 Dom and no one picks him in that. But either way your comment is pretty ignorant.

02-10-2017, 09:32 PM
Like I said I'm level 9 Warden so I like to think I understand her combo's pretty well, I can't say I know how to combo her combo's. But it's the basic over-heard fast heavy attack I have a problem with, it doesn't take any skill and interrupts everything (except unstoppable attacks which I believe only raider has).

02-10-2017, 09:36 PM
I'll say it now - The Warden doesn't have a lot going for it.

A seriously fast top-light attack. A damn fine alternative to parrying Top-attacks. A mediocre shoulder-charge. A really fast zone-attack with some deceptively good reach.

And that's about it. Their dodges are slow and short, they have no unblockables, they can't deflect, a lot of parries don't even allow room to counter-attack, and what few specials you do have are so predictable and easily countered that they can't even be a factor in a lot of fights.

What you're left with is the basic combat scheme, which everyone has, and simply trying to feint and guard-break for damage. That's it.

02-10-2017, 09:42 PM
Like I said I'm level 9 Warden

LOL you lost all your validation on one move.

Hope this helps.

02-10-2017, 10:28 PM
I'm going to be honest. As it stands right now for any character without an unblockable attack such as berserker, warden, peacekeeper, etc. Shields are a nightmare. If they know how to counter block break you have the smallest chance of beating them 1 on 1. Personally I feel like blocking with the shield should make them lost stamina slowly.

02-11-2017, 07:45 PM
Well the warden is straight up garbage as it stands, utterly unplayable so if that needs a nerf I don't even know where you would begin with most of the other classes.

warden = slow as hell, does no damage, has no moves.

God the warden is ****ing terrible! I don't even know how anyone could think that it needed nerfing. Unfortunately I have already bought this game but after spending a while playing the warden and the kensei (both utter crap btw) I kinda wish I hadn't. The experience of playing such useless characters combined with the horrible control scheme with 95% of your controls on one hand has really put me off the game. Practice or not I don't see me ever overcoming some of these problems, the controls especially are ridiculous.

02-11-2017, 07:56 PM
Want to counter my main Warden? Play that shield *******. Something about him, I just can't fight.

02-11-2017, 08:00 PM
Warden is balanced.

02-11-2017, 08:23 PM
I watched the twitch live stream with the "pros" playing and at the end when the Viking team played the Knight team it became very obvious to me that both shield classes warlord more so are damn near impossible to beat solo with someone good behind the controller. Of coarse different classes are more or less effective against them. I main Raider and Nobushi. Raider I dont have that much issue with them. They are hard but not impossible. But with my Nobushi like in an elimination match for example i just turn around and bail. Go help someone else and try to get a 2v1 on the warlord. They aren't that much slower than my Nobushi and have extensive defenses and if you get in close they just toss you around and your a helpless ragdoll. So I do agree that Warlord needs to be slowed down. Both heavys need slowed down. If your a tank you shouldnt have such fast attacks. Or as powerful. The defense is what the class is about. They shouldnt have everything.

02-12-2017, 01:19 AM
Fast heavy attacks? Are we talking about the same character? Warden's heavy attack is not fast...
Warden is one of the more balanced classes in the game. Maybe even underpowered because of the lack in his kit.
The fact that you are calling for a "hard nerf" is honestly just ridiculous.

Warlord is the one who would need the hard nerf between the two of them.
I am not going to go into detail or anything, but having played him and played against him many times, I know he is super strong and maybe too strong.

Lewie B I ReQ
02-12-2017, 03:14 AM
Like I said I'm level 9 Warden so I like to think I understand her combo's pretty well, I can't say I know how to combo her combo's. But it's the basic over-heard fast heavy attack I have a problem with, it doesn't take any skill and interrupts everything (except unstoppable attacks which I believe only raider has).

how can you say the warden top attack has no skill? you have to start your light attack at the very last second before you get hit. if you had any brains you would avoid using top attacks when against a warden or fake it.

warden is not even close to being op. the character is so easily punished with a very small amount of combos/ what so the side light attack hits twice IF the first one hits. does that make orochi op? look at the vast amount of combos orochi and nobushi have, are they op?

you must serriously suck if you think warden is op.

and yes i do main warden atm and plenty of players have been able to beat me no problem because they were skilled with theie own class and mixed things up.

if anything the warden is among the weaker of the classes