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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 10:50 PM
These are the pilots with kills over 10. There are probably 29 others with 5 or more.

Frankly, considering the late war production and implementation of this aircraft, I'm surprised the Luftwaffe had this much success.

Also, an inordinate proportion of kills were against bombers.

Kurt, 29
Rudolf, 23
Heinrich, 16
Franz, 14
Hermann, 12
Georg-Peter, 12
Erich, 12
Karl, 11
Fritz, 11

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 10:50 PM
These are the pilots with kills over 10. There are probably 29 others with 5 or more.

Frankly, considering the late war production and implementation of this aircraft, I'm surprised the Luftwaffe had this much success.

Also, an inordinate proportion of kills were against bombers.

Kurt, 29
Rudolf, 23
Heinrich, 16
Franz, 14
Hermann, 12
Georg-Peter, 12
Erich, 12
Karl, 11
Fritz, 11

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:02 PM
arcadeace wrote:
- Frankly, considering the late war production and
- implementation of this aircraft, I'm surprised the
- Luftwaffe had this much success.

Well, they were the Luftwaffes best pilots flying potentially the most advanced aircraft of the war. Though, I think the Ar 234 is more technically advanced still. That aircraft had autopilot and I think auto bomb sight all bundled into a package that could match speed with the 262B- versions. And wouldn't Galland... or Nowotny be there? They were given commands of thier own groups.... or at least Nowotny was, Kommando Nowotny or how ever it goes.

Hmmm correct me if I'm wrong please.... I know very little about the pilots really, or the units that operated the jet.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:03 PM
~S~ Anyone have the loss tallies vs. numbers that actually reached the sky for the Me-262 during it's operational period? It'd be interesting to see.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:07 PM
Those are all Christian names. What were their family names?



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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:11 PM
- http://www.luftwaffe.cz/


Click the Me262 on the right.


Message Edited on 10/28/0310:12PM by Iris47

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:12 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- Those are all Christian names. What were their
- family names?
-

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:22 PM
I know who they are but many would not know which 'Kurt' it is./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

#1 Kurt = Walter, 10.NJG11, 20+
#2 Heinz Bar, JV44, 16
#3 Franz Schall, JG7, 14
#4 Herman Buchner, JG7, 12
#5 George-Peter Eder, JG7, 12
#6 Erich Rudoerfer, JG7, 12
#7 Karl Schnorrer, JG7, 11
#8 Erich Buttner, JG7, 8
#9 Helmut Lennartz, JG7, 8
#10 Rudolf Rademacher, JG7, 8


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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:25 PM
262 aces

Kurt Welter 26 kills (@night)
Heinz B√¬§r 16 kills
Franz Schall 14 kills
Hermann Buchner 12kills
G.P.Eder 12 kills
Erich Rudorffer 12 kills
Karl Schn√¬∂rrer 11 kills

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:26 PM
oopps double-mobbel, sorry Milo./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:36 PM
Yes, Ubi seems to be SNAFU again, KIMURA.

EKdo > 12
KG51 > 8+
Kdo Nowotny > 22
EJG2 > 40
JG7 > 500
10./NJG11 > 48
JV44 > 55+
KG(J)54 > 50



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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:38 PM
arcadeace wrote:
- These are the pilots with kills over 10. There are
- probably 29 others with 5 or more.
-
- Frankly, considering the late war production and
- implementation of this aircraft, I'm surprised the
- Luftwaffe had this much success.
-
- Also, an inordinate proportion of kills were against
- bombers.
-
- Kurt, 29
- Rudolf, 23
- Heinrich, 16
- Franz, 14
- Hermann, 12
- Georg-Peter, 12
- Erich, 12
- Karl, 11
- Fritz, 11
-
-
-
-


Kurt Welter's 29 Me-262 claims are in dispute. Even some of his fellow Luftwaffe pilots did not believe him...especially since most of his 262 claims were at night.

A quote fromthe book "The Other Battle" by Hinchcliffe;

" Welter was a controversial figure and there are those who doubt the accuracy of his claims. For example, he is recorded as having destroyed 25 Mosquito, although only officially credited with 6, three while flying the FW-190 and a further 3 when flying the Me-262 jet fighter later in the war. It is sad when the claims of a gallant man are doubted, but it must be said that , as described, the claims were made in conditions that made accurate checking impossible. A well placed source who would prefer not to be named had this to say about Welter:

"Welter claimed to have shot down one after the other and some people belived him. I was skiptical. Welter was comparativly young and I should like to reflect on the fact that extravagent claims by young people are not unusual. I myself know how difficult it was to shoot down bombers by night.: I must have made about 50 attacks and I destroyed only 2 for certain. Admittedly there were some , like Marseille for instance, who had a special gift when it came to air to air firing but I do not think that Wleter was one of those. What was certain was that he was a braggart, and I think that that was reflected in his claims. I also doubt Welter's claim to have shot down 6 Mosquitos, but presumably that can be checked against British records"


Presumably...we shall never know for sure



-
-





Message Edited on 10/28/0305:54PM by Zyzbot

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:46 PM
Posted this link before, but worth the read.

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/wilde_sau/wilde_sau_1.asp

Me262 production for '44 and '45

J - 0 + 228
F - 0 + 296
M - 1 + 240
A - 15 + 101
M - 7 + 0
J - 28 + 0
J - 58 + 0
A - 15 + 0
S - 94 + 0
O - 118 + 0
N - 101 + 0
D - 131 + 0

Total 1433 of which only 936 were delivered. (497 being lost due to enemy action)


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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:57 PM
Less that 300 saw combat though. So I assume you include bombing of factories and airfields as enemy action. Any clue on how many were lost in combat?

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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:07 AM
USAAF claimed 165 Me-262 air to air kills.


I have no idea how many the RAF claimed.


I know of at least 1 Soviet claim.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:08 AM
That was the loss number of finished a/c due to loss on delivery flights, test flights, bombing, etc.

A work in progress - W.Nr. and fate of 262s
http://www.stormbirds.com/werknummer/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&WerkNummer=&Model=&Factory=&Date=&Unit=&Pilot=&Factory_Code=&Unit_Code=&Callsign=&References=&keyword=shot+down&sb=---&so=ascend&mh=25&view_records=Search

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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

Message Edited on 10/28/0306:14PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:13 AM
I have a signed picture of Rudorffer.

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