PDA

View Full Version : I have a few questions for CH products users, answers apreciated.



resev
01-21-2004, 05:51 PM
Cheers.

I've been skulking the web in search of good info about the CH products, but i can't find my most important doubths answered.

If you use a CH prodcts owner, i'd apreciate a few answers:


1. The Combat/Fighterstick are supposed to be huge, and not very comfortable for small hands.
My question is, how big is it, and can an average sized hand reach all the buttons comfortably, 8 way hatswitch included, without forcing an unatural movement of the fingers?

2. Everywhere i look, everyone say that the springs on the joysticks are very mild in strength.
What i wonder is, since the lightest springs i ever experienced were on a Microsoft pro precision 2, how light are the springs on the CH sticks, when compared to the ones on the MS stick?

3. Whenever i find a picture of any of the CH sticks, i can only see two rotary sliders, but when i see the description of the sticks, CH says they have two trim rotary sliders, and one trottle sliders.
The question is, since the pictures are not explanatory enough, and the description is elusive, how many rotary sliders do the joysticks have, 2 or 3?

4. On to the trottle.
Everything seems perfect on the trottle, but my doubth is about the mouse emulation mini stick.
Is the mouse emulation mini stick a 8 way switch, or is it a free movement mini stick, like the one seen on the TM Cougar?

5. Does the trottle have a completely free movement, or does it have some sort of detent, to give some ater burner or idle engine warning?

6. And now about the Pedals.
The overall size of the pedals, seems to be very small and constrict.
Do the pedals allow a good comfortable position for the legs and feets?



That's pretty much all i wanted to ask about the CH products.
I'm considering getting the full set in a few months, but i'm somewhat worried about the things i asked about.

You answers are apreciated.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

resev
01-21-2004, 05:51 PM
Cheers.

I've been skulking the web in search of good info about the CH products, but i can't find my most important doubths answered.

If you use a CH prodcts owner, i'd apreciate a few answers:


1. The Combat/Fighterstick are supposed to be huge, and not very comfortable for small hands.
My question is, how big is it, and can an average sized hand reach all the buttons comfortably, 8 way hatswitch included, without forcing an unatural movement of the fingers?

2. Everywhere i look, everyone say that the springs on the joysticks are very mild in strength.
What i wonder is, since the lightest springs i ever experienced were on a Microsoft pro precision 2, how light are the springs on the CH sticks, when compared to the ones on the MS stick?

3. Whenever i find a picture of any of the CH sticks, i can only see two rotary sliders, but when i see the description of the sticks, CH says they have two trim rotary sliders, and one trottle sliders.
The question is, since the pictures are not explanatory enough, and the description is elusive, how many rotary sliders do the joysticks have, 2 or 3?

4. On to the trottle.
Everything seems perfect on the trottle, but my doubth is about the mouse emulation mini stick.
Is the mouse emulation mini stick a 8 way switch, or is it a free movement mini stick, like the one seen on the TM Cougar?

5. Does the trottle have a completely free movement, or does it have some sort of detent, to give some ater burner or idle engine warning?

6. And now about the Pedals.
The overall size of the pedals, seems to be very small and constrict.
Do the pedals allow a good comfortable position for the legs and feets?



That's pretty much all i wanted to ask about the CH products.
I'm considering getting the full set in a few months, but i'm somewhat worried about the things i asked about.

You answers are apreciated.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

akatoha
01-21-2004, 06:49 PM
I have both Cougar HOTAS setup with SIMPED pedals and a CH setup with the Fighter Stick, Pro Pedals and Pro Throttle.

1. Both sticks are LARGE with the Cougar being somewhat bigger than the CH. On the CH Fighter Stick the POV Hat Switch is pretty much unreachable while button 2 is difficult to reach without shifting your grip. The up side is the CH Throttle has a POV Hat Switch that is very easy to use so I don't even bother with the POV Hat Switch on the joystick anymore. On the Cougar all the buttons are easer for me to reach but the POV Hat Switch is still not easy to use with out shifting my grip. The Cougar joystick does have 2 extra usable buttons vs. the CH Fighter Stick also the Cougar TQS has 2 rotary wheels that can be used as "sliders" for prop pitch or trim.

2. The springs in the Cougar are HEAVY and this stick will develop center play after a short time is use. The CH Fighter stick springs are PERFECT out of the box with no center play and positive return to center when the stick is released.

3. The CH Fighter stick has 3 wheels on the base with 2 of them being used for spring tension adjustment only. In the game you can use these to adjust the rudder and aileron trim only they can't be assigned to any other function. The other wheel is the normal throttle but can be assigned as a "slider" to prop pitch or elevator trim.

4. The mini stick on the CH is just like the Cougars so you'll need to install the CH software then make a custome button map to access the mouse as joystick feature.

Forget the Cougar. It's big and impressive to look at but that's it. I have 2 of the dam things and don't use either anymore.

Buy the CH Fighter Stick along with the Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals and you'll have the best flight controller setup for the best price.

georgeo76
01-21-2004, 06:49 PM
As for the pedals I can say that they comfortably accommodate my US size 12 feet (UK 11 1/2). My feet are longer than the pedals, but they are plenty wide and comfortable


http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/buck2.gif
"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up. "
Fiend's Wings (http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend)

Bearcat99
01-21-2004, 06:54 PM
All I have are the pedals and my feet are like Georgeos....... Im lovin it.....

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

GoodKn1ght
01-21-2004, 06:56 PM
once you go ch you will never go back.
you cant get the precision on the FS on anyother stick.

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"

Dnmy
01-21-2004, 07:17 PM
The CH fighterstick has 3 rotaries on the base.

1 rotary for the X axis potentiometer with a detent. 1 rotary for the Y axis potentiometer also with a detent. And 1 rotary for an independant axis other than X or Y. If you have only the stick it's meant to be used as throttle wheel.

You can indeed use the rotaries on the base for trimming the X and Y axis, but what you basically are doing is shifting the center position of the pots. The center position can be easily refound with the detents (and markings) on the rotaries. If you use the trim rotaries on the base, you basically bypass FB's slow trim.

The stick is pretty big and the tophatswitch can be difficult to reach without shifting your hand. But it depends a bit where you place the stick. If it's on the desk it makes the top hatswitches harder to reach then if the stick is positioned lower.

The springs are pretty light which is good because priority is to fight the bandit, not the stick. And not having to exert large forces on the stick, while pressing buttons at the same is another advantage. The forces are comparable to the sidewinder i'd say. But it's hard to make a comparison because i have a FFB2 with adjustable centering force. In any case, don't expect stiff springforces.

The mini stick on the throttle is really a mini joystick not like the one on the cougar but really a mini stick, to which you can assign 2 axis' or the mouse. It's also a button that can be pushed.

Lastly there are no detents in the pro throttle, it has no arcing movement just a sliding back and forth movement.

horseback
01-21-2004, 07:58 PM
Resev

Like several of the earlier posters, I have the Combatstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals setup.

I too, have smallish hands, and your reservations regarding the stick 8-way POV are justified. However, the throttle has a very reachable 8-way POV on it, and that's the one I use for POV.

The Control Manager software allows you to designate the stick POV as a regular 8-position switch, and I use the stick 8-way's cardinal points (Top, bottom, left, right) for elevator and rudder trim buttons, which I find comfortably useful. By putting your POV on the throttle, you'll be less likely to stall out when you try to look around in combat.

At the same time, you'll quickly find that it is quite easy and natural to adjust trim even during a sharp turn with the stick's hatswitch.

I have used several sticks for this game, and the CH stick is stiffer than the MS Precision series, and lighter than the Logitech Freedom type (and your wrist won't cramp up on long Bf-109 missions in the original Il-2).

The rudders' biggest problem is the tendency to slide around on carpet; you'll need to anchor them. As for size, unless you have enormous heels, or want to wear ski boots, there should be no problem.

The microstick has pretty much been covered; I wouldn't recommend it for mouse use, although some have been quite happy with it.

One tip regarding the Control Manager Software; print out the Help files and keep them in a loose-leaf notebook. I have a helluva time tracking up and down on the screen and it's very handy to be able to write notes in the margins of a page, or highlight key points.

Hope this helps

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

BM357_Raven
01-21-2004, 08:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 4. On to the trottle.
Everything seems perfect on the trottle, but my doubth is about the mouse emulation mini stick.
Is the mouse emulation mini stick a 8 way switch, or is it a free movement mini stick, like the one seen on the TM Cougar?

5. Does the trottle have a completely free movement, or does it have some sort of detent, to give some ater burner or idle engine warning?

6. And now about the Pedals.
The overall size of the pedals, seems to be very small and constrict.
Do the pedals allow a good comfortable position for the legs and feets?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll answer the pedals issue first. The only one I have heard make a light complaint was troll. He found them uncomfortable on his heels I believe, because of the way his feet point out slightly I think. As for me the are comfortable. I think everyone will probably agree that the are a no-shoes periph..

If my Rudder Peds broke tonight I would be at the Executive Airport tomorrow in a panic that they might be sold out of them.. Worth every penny. IF THIS IS YOUR HOBBY--YOU NEED RUDDER PEDALS!!! If, you are all about increasing the sense of 'being there.'

The CH Throttle is a great piece of hardware. It allows you to keep both hands stationary while while adjusting all the controls of your aircraft; good by keyboard. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The ministick is free-flowing similar to a track ball but on a stick. If you DEPRESS it you will go into shift functions. The CH Manager is a MUST, but it is not very intuitive I dont think...then again I never read until I am slapped up with frustration.. Also it's great to map your transmit button to your comms.. Yeah I guess it's kind of a must too.. maybe the x45 would do--i dunno.

Oh, the only problem I have with my mini-mouse stick is that it doesnt always center which can make the screen jitter, so I turned it off.. But trackIR makes it obsolete, imo.

and GoodKn1ght is that true? Compare it to MSFFB2, I'm curious... thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.bm357.com/bm357_logok.jpg (http://bm357.com)
Blazing Magnums 357th VFG
bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com/NEW_BM357/flash_intro.html) | Roster (http://bm357.com/NEW_BM357/bm357_rosters.asp) | Flash Cartoon (http://bm357.com/NEW_BM357/raven_in_plane9p.html) | BroDawg (http://www.bm357.com/NEW_BM357/flash-intro/tinman3.html) | QuickTime Videos (http://www.bm357.com/movies.htm)
Blazing_Magnums Server (http://bm357.com/NEW_BM357/server.htm)

SpinSpinSugar
01-22-2004, 03:29 AM
Another CH Products user here. Although I'm in the old school who have the analogue set (Flightstick Pro and Pro Pedals).

The fact that these go back at least 6? 7? 10? years (I really can't remember) and are still performing as flawlessly as when I purchased them should be testament to their build quality. I have no need to upgrade to USB models until one or other claps out, which they are showing no signs of doing.

The Flightstick is a good size, very ergonomic, four fire buttons and a hatswitch, three rotaries (two trim and a throttle). The pedals are very solid, good action, shaped with open tops and a heel support so any size feet would fit, shoes or no shoes.

If/when either of these units fail, I'd replace with another one of the same (only probably in USB flavour).

Cheers,

SSS

Alexi_Alx_Anova
01-22-2004, 09:23 AM
I had, actually still have, an ancient CH joystick. Must have bought it back in the late '80s/early '90s. It might beone of their first products.

The one thing that always annoyed me about it was accidentally moving the centering wheels. It happened to me often since they are exposed on the top of the stick's base.

However, I'm seriously considering buying the fighter stick (and the throttle). Do those of you with this stick have this problem of moving the center off accidentally either in use or when moving?

P.S. In the UK, it looks like the cheapest place to get CH equipment is from www.dabs.com (http://www.dabs.com)

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

[Gypsy]
01-22-2004, 09:35 AM
Just to throw my .02 in on this... I have the CH combo (Combat stick/throttle/rudder pedals) all USB.. the stick is 1.5 years old and still feels like the day I got it.. throttle with all its buttons keeps my hands off the keyboard for the most part...rudder pedals are my latest purchase..don't know how I did without them this long...

I am not going to repeat what has already been said except to agree... you can't go wrong with CH Products...

"Gypsy"

310th FS Opps Officer
CO Bravo Wing

http://imageshack.us/files/Gypsy%20Sig2.jpg

Dunkelgrun
01-22-2004, 11:27 AM
Only got the pedals, but wouldn't be without them. Only slight problem is that despite being heavy they will slide. Once anchored securely, great!
Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg

Spinne_3.-JG51
01-22-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
Only got the pedals, but wouldn't be without them. Only slight problem is that despite being heavy they will slide. Once anchored securely, great!
Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love my CH Pedals, and I wouldn't want to do without them. When it comes to the throttle, if you fly multiengined planes fairly often, hold off buying the CH Throttle as CH is comming out with a new 4 throttle-in-one set which will be perfect for controlling a dual engined prop. You could assign two throttles to the thrust on each engine and two more for prop pitch. Take a look at it on the CH website.

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg

"Come on in, I'll treat you nice! I used to know your father."

Alexi_Alx_Anova
01-23-2004, 01:46 AM
bump

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Capt.LoneRanger
01-23-2004, 02:51 AM
Hello, there!

I've tested several sticks, including TM's Afterburner/Afterburner2, Saitek X35/X45 and some other smaller sticks, that are not really HOTAS.

I'm still playing with my 10 year old CH HOTAS. I think that says it all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But to your questions:
1. It really depends. I've not the largest hands myself, but I can reach any hat or button, without bending fingers. If you put them a bit lower than on a desk, the stick fits perfectly in any hand.
2. Springs are very good. Not too stiff and not to soft. A big pro, especially against X45 is the fact, that X and Y axis have seperate springs. So you can feel any time, where your stick is pointed.
Additionally, you can replace the springs in 5 minutes, with rubber-bands or something simmular, adjusting resistance as you want it. I did this and it is very easy and very comfortable. Something that would be a bit harder on Cougar. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
3. I can only speak for the gameport-version here, but afaik it's the same for USB and it was allready stated before: There are 2 rotaries for the both axis, practicaly a manual trim (as it is actually called) The third is the throttle without a seperate throttle. On gameport this is disabled if your plug in a throttle, but I think you can still use it on USB-devices, since they utilize another signal, naturally.
4. Isn't on my throttle, but I think it's free movement.
One more thing about the throttle:
It's not a rotary lever as on X45 and Cougar. This may be not very realistic for most NATO-planes, but it has a very big PLUS: You can reach all buttons all the time with no problem at all. If you set the X45 on a desk, you'll have to break your hand to reach the rudder.
5. Free movement - at least gameport-version. I allready read about some modifications.
6. Dunno - don't have pedals, yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I still prefer the CH-HOTAS over the Cougar and any other device on the market. My HOTAS centers perfectly still, all buttons working perfectly. Looking at the suggestions to replace all potis for another 150-200 bucks, this totals up for a 500 bucks - half of it, you pay for the name.

Hope it helps. I would buy and infact I will buy CH-HOTAS, anytime.


greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg