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LordKaterchen
02-07-2017, 11:26 PM
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The Duelist Code of Honor is a community driven project and not an official Ubisoft code of conduct


The Duelist Code of Honor (DCoH)



https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/vAwnLFDJ4.png


Introduction

I have been playing For Honor now since the earliest test versions and also read through a lot of forum discussions on the topic of ‘honor’ in For Honor. Seeing how they tend to escalate into nastiness very quickly, let me clarify one thing immediately with as much emphasis as possible:


This post does NOT explain how to play For Honor the ‘right way’, nor does it claim to even be the ‘right way’ to go about the topic of honor in For Honor. In fact you can make a rather strong case for it being a ‘wrong way’ to play.


The ONLY intent of this post is to provide a clear definition and explain the reasoning for ONE possible style of play, that people with a similar mindset might point towards sparing them the need for complex explanations.

My friends and I have been adhering to this code for the full amount of our playtime so far and we do not intend to deviate from it after game release or ever for that matter. Having gathered quite some experience playing this way, I will also explain what the goals are, how it feels and address the potential team mates who are not participating in it with the only correct way to address them – and that is an apology.

First I will explain the code. It is separated into non-optional rules and gestures of respect towards your opponent. While I leave the latter up to everyone’s own decision how to go about them, the actual rules are non optional. Afterwards I will address the in-fight behaviour, explain the reasoning and goals for the code as a whole and in the end address both - players who will not play by the code and players who will - seperately.

*UPDATES resulting from responses:

While this DCoH is meant for all game modes including dominion, it is not meant for actual ranked play. To be more precise. As long as unranked and ranked are not seperated I will still apply the code. If unranked and ranked get seperated I would only apply it to unranked play. In ranked play I would still adhere to the first four rules, but I would leave out the Rule of Numbers and the Rule of Courage as well as mostly not applying any of the handicapping gestures or respect.
Even though I tried to drive this point home throughout the post. I am not calling anyone dishonorable and I do not want to force the code onto anybody. As a matter of fact, I would probably find it a little bit boring if literally every player followed this code, just as I would find it boring if literally every player went for 100% play-to-win effectiveness. But I see no risk whatsoever of either happening. I think that a lot of memorable matches come from the multitude of different playstyles and personalities involved in the game. That being said I would very much enjoy if far more people tended to follow rules 1 through 4.
I hoped this would be apparent, but just in case that there is confusion. I do not apply every Gesture of Respect with every opponent. It is an individual decision every time and often it will depend on how much courtesy I get in return. The Rules however are always applied no matter how horrible an opponent behaves.



The rules of the DCoH


Disclaimer: I deem all rules of the DCoH to be MANDATORY. Mandatory means that if you do not adhere to them, you are not playing by the DCoH. And that is not a judgement. You might be playing by your own code of honor or no code at all - either of which is totally fine! But the goal of this post is to describe and define one particular code of honor to be easy distinguishable from ofthers. And the rules are the very core essence of it.


The rule of Preference:
You do not ever berate, belittle or otherwise criticize any other player for not following the DCoH or not having any kind of honor. You do not express any kind of superiority over others, in fact you do not even perceive such. Playing by this code is a personal choice, not a device for feeling false superiority.


The rule of Respect:
You do not ever act disrespectful towards your opponent. While enjoying ones victory is fine, any kind of demeaning behavior or taunting (similar to tea bagging or other abuse of the fallen opponent by use of emotes or otherwise) is forbidden.


The rule of Calm:
Also in chat/voice-chat you do not ever flame or personally attack any other players in the game, even if they don’t do you the same courtesy. It also doesn’t matter if they start it and come at you aggressively. At worst inform them that you prefer to cease communication and put them on mute.


The rule of Balance:
While the developers of course try to make the game balanced, it is highly unlikely that they will ever achieve perfect balance due to the complexity of the problem and the diversity of mechanics. And even if such perfect balance could be achieved it would never feel like it to the majority of players due to bias. And while balance might actually even really be broken sometimes, you will never diminish an opponents performance or highlight yours implicitly by complaining about or pointing out any perceived imbalance in the game during a match. Balance discussions should be impersonal and a constructive process in the forum. Used in game they are usually just a tool for preserving ones pride in cases of self-perceived failure.


The rule of Numbers:
You do not ever actively fight with an advantage in numbers. Even if you already were in a fight, where the numbers were even. If another ally joins the fray or an opponent falls, giving you the advantage in numbers, you cease attacking and attempt to disengage, passively defending yourself as necessary should your opponent deny your disengage. You can and should support allies who are outnumbered though with full force and even if you are not supposed to interrupt other duels, you are well within your right to interrupt enemy executions. The fight has ended the moment your ally cannot fight back anymore.


The rule of Courage:
While repositioning and using the battlefield to your advantage is very much allowed, actively disengaging from an existing fight for the sole purpose of regeneration is considered forbidden.




The Gestures of (utmost) Respect of the DCoH


Disclaimer: All of the mentioned Gestures of Respect are explicitly optional. You can adhere to them in general, only grant them to opponents that you want to express beyond average respect towards or completely ignore them, as you see fit. A lot of them would mean giving up certain class advantages, which are part of the overall game balance, which is all the more reason, why they are utterly OPTIONAL and SITUATIONAL. In the end, using your class to it’s full potential in the scope of an existing engagement is very well accepted.


Duelist’s Greeting:
Pointing at a chosen opponent who is already aware of you or saluting them before engaging is considered a gesture of respect.


Duelist’s Praise:
No matter if you beat your opponent or your opponent beats you. If the fight was a close one and you enjoyed it or deem your opponent worthy of praise for his skill, you should proclaim it was a ‘Good Fight!’ or even provide a simple ‘Wow!’ from the in-game communication menu as a gesture of respect. Just be careful to only use it, when appropriate, otherwise it can very well be understood as sarcastic taunting.


Forfeit Initiative:
A battlefield is hectic and an opponent might not always see you coming. This is especially true if you are using some of the assassin class feats which help you hide your presence. Making your presence known to your opponent and giving him the time to prepare for the upcoming fight is considered a gesture of respect.


Forfeit Feats:
You can choose not to use a feat that would give you a considerable advantage over your opponent in a given fight situation as a gesture of respect.


Forfeit Environmental Insta-Kills:
You can choose not to explicitly aim or even avoid pushing someone down a ledge or into spikes for a quick kill as a gesture of respect. Again some classes are far better at this than others (Raider, Lawbringer for example), so for those this would mean an even bigger sacrifice.


Forfeit Execution:
If you consider your opponent to have fought so well, that you want to give him the chance to stand up again or just in general spare their life, you can forfeit an Execution as a gesture of respect.


Allow Regeneration:
Beginning a fight against an opponent you might find yourself at a hitpoint advantage. If regeneration is close by, instead of suppressing it, you could allow your opponent to reg back to full health instead before engaging as a gesture of respect.


Allow Revive:
If you are utterly fearless or just want to fight one opponent again immediately or even aim for a 1v2, you can choose not to interrupt a revive as a gesture of respect.




Clarification on in-fight behavior

You might notice that the only rules to impact the actual gameplay are the Rule of Numbers and the Rule of Courage.
While there are a lot of possible gestures of respect potentially seriously handicapping yourself even further and diminishing your performance, I consider none of them to be inherently necessary or the lack of using them to break the code.

There are two main reasons for this:
One is class balance, where some classes would have a tremendous advantage over others when using the full extent of the gestures of respect.
The other one is that the Honor part of the DCoH refers to the perceived honor as a player rather than any kind of ‘roleplaying your character’ -honor as derived from fantasy or history. Although it is nice of course should they coincide for you.

But if your character has class-mechanics that could be considered dishonorable from a roleplaying perspective (traps for example), feel free to use them even while adhering to the DCoH, because from a player perspective they are just a different mechanic. The same goes for the use of terrain, poison, bleeding or draining your opponents stamina.



What the goal is and how it feels

I do not want to judge why others might choose the DCoH, but I will gladly explain what MY reasons are for choosing the rules like this and playing by them. The reasons are two-fold:

The primary reason regarding the first four rules is atmosphere of the game. And again, I am not talking about atmosphere in a roleplaying sense but rather the atmosphere as a competitive environment of a game.
For me personally toxicity in competitive games has been a major diminishing factor to my enjoyment of any game, where I participated in the community, even if I could power through it. For Honor by it’s very design with it’s presentation, the emotes and the executions is already aimed at a personal feeling of pride and skill. It provides an intense impact to both your victories and your losses. Emotions will run high in such an environment, even if people want to be nice about it initially. Frustration and Anger are quick to be relieved onto other players.
The overall goal of the rules is to diminish some of these already unpreventable unpleasant effects by abstaining from any kind of provocation and by avoiding two types of situations, that tend to push people over the edge. One of which is being ganged up upon, the other one is having an enemy escape when you feel like you had won the engagement and having your kill denied.

The other reason is a heightened sense of challenge and accomplishment. You will find yourself in situations where you have to face multiple opponents more oft than not and personally I enjoy that a lot. Ganging up on someone gives me a rather hollow feeling of victory, but this is really personal preference.

But I will also usher a warning to everyone trying the DCoH. If you are not immune to frustration yourself, … getting flamed by your team, taunted by the opposing team ganging up on you, not getting a single kill before you lose the game and your opponents proclaiming how easy their win was because you are so stupid … might be taxing to some.

At the same time seeing an opponent approach an already running duel that you are in and then realizing that he stopped and waits for you to finish, rather than hack you in the back, feels really nice.

Still… you cannot, should not and have no right to expect such courtesy from anyone. If you choose to follow this code, do it for yourself, not for any praise or morale high ground. There is no moral high ground for us in this. Which brings me to the next topic.



Addressing the players who do NOT follow the DCoH

No matter if you have your own code of honor, if you just don’t care and play as you see fit, or if you are trying to follow a strict play-to-win philosophy.


You are all doing fine and thank you for participating in this great game.
And my sincere apology for my ultimately selfish adherence to the Duelist Code of Honor, if I happen to be your team mate.

I can understand the frustration of someone expecting me to help them in a duel if they are cornered and feeling betrayed that I just run by or the anger of a win-focused player over me not playing to my maximum effectiveness in a setting where win/loss is a shared property between us. It is those moments of frustration that my apology is meant for.


The fact of the matter is, that ultimately I play by the DCoH because it is more fun for me to play the game this way, rather than – for example – following the Play-to-Win philosophy, which I sometimes did embrace in other games.

I do not want to start the enormous and actually rather complicated discussion about playing the game ‘how it’s fun for you’ versus playing a game ‘as effectively as possible’ to do right by your potentially random team members. Let me just put up one argument why it might not be as bad as it seems:

Adhering to the DCoH is a potentially enormous self-imposed handicap. So there is no discussion that my theoretical maximum effectiveness might be far bigger than my actual effectiveness when playing according to DCoH.

And if I was playing to my maximum effectiveness all the time, gaining an appropriate match-making rating that is basically the ‘expected effectiveness’ that I will provide for my team, then – yes – suddenly playing a lot less effective than what you were matched for means that your team is not getting as much win chance out of you as your matchmaking rating promised them.

But I am never playing to my maximum effectiveness. If I constantly play by the DCoH my matchmaking rating will actually depict my diminished effectiveness including the self-imposed handicap. That means that in the long run, if I get matched with you as a teammate, I will bring the appropriate win-chance to the team that match-making promises me to bring with my handicap well considered. If I suddenly played to my maximum effectiveness then, it would actually not be fair towards the opponents. It would be like losing a few times on purpose - not caring - only to drop in ranking and then collect some easy wins in uneven match-ups. (ie. smurfing)

That still won’t prevent the frustrating moments that I – again – sincerely apologize for. But at the very least you can be sure, that in regards to the overall win chance of the team I make up for it in other ways.



To those interested in the DCoH

Please help us to establish this code as something that - even if it may not be widely accepted - is at least understood by the majority of the community. You can help by:



Rate the post
Respond to this post proclaiming that you will play DCoH
Calling for a sticky - already succeeded
Proclaiming to follow the Duelist Code of Honor at the start of your matches so your teammates are warned and not surprised by your behavior
Keeping a constructive discussion going



Thank you very much for your patience in reading all of this. See you all on the battlefield!

Lord Katerchen

NPG_Opie
02-07-2017, 11:36 PM
Very well written. Enjoyed the read and I completely agree with this on many points!! My friends and I are trying to adhere to a very similar code. Extremely thrilled to know there are many more out there who want to remain honorable

SpacePremier
02-07-2017, 11:38 PM
You can write this honor code but dont expect me to follow it, not gonna have same experience as the dark souls fight club. my honor code are simple you fight till the end even you lose no need other rules cause everything is permitted in there. good luck try to build that code

Egotistic_Ez
02-07-2017, 11:44 PM
In a 2v2 I'll wait for my ally to finish duelling before engaging, but only until ranked is released. If the game is ranked then I'll use any legitimate method to win.

Therein ends my code and I thank you for the easy win.

NPG_Opie
02-08-2017, 12:10 AM
In a 2v2 I'll wait for my ally to finish duelling before engaging, but only until ranked is released. If the game is ranked then I'll use any legitimate method to win.

Therein ends my code and I thank you for the easy win.

Agreed, in ranked matches its all about winning no matter what.

DSD_Breaker
02-08-2017, 12:28 AM
„You wish to finish this war with your honor intact?
Stand among the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters...
The silence will be your answer.”
– Javik – Mass Effect.

A nice text, liked reading it, and if you have more fun playing this way, that’s fine. I might even agree with a few points, regarding chat behaviour for example. I always give a “Good Fight”, even if I lose but enjoyed the fight.

But some of your points in my opinion even show a lack of honor. For example, if I fight in a 2v1 and see my friend losing, I will engage. Where is the honor in letting your friends die? I might stand by if my friend is dominating anyway, but otherwise I will rescue him.

Also regarding environmental kills. I think it’s a lack of awareness of the opponent if I kick him down somewhere. Because at some point this becomes ridicules. Do I also have to move back if he is backed into a corner by me? You could apply it to basically every advanced game mechanic, for example bleed or unblockable attacks.

But as long as you are not trying to impose this code on anyone or complain if someone is not fighting according to it, I think it’s a nice idea to find likeminded players.

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 12:47 AM
@Opie:
I feel you. It's always nice if you meet someone who spontaneously lets you finish a duel :)

@Egotistic_EZ & Opie:
Hmmm. Ranked play is a fair point. Should they implement and specifically seperate between ranked and unranked play I would argue that ranked warrants a play-to-win-approach by default. But as long as it's unranked or there is no seperate ranked mode, I prefer the code :)

@ Zeppeloni:
I don't expect anyone to follow the code. I will still be glad if a few adopt it or if people were likeminded to begin with. But I do not mind people playing any way they deem right.

@Breaker:
Hmmm. The 2v1 honor argument you make is a hard call. Personally I never want someone to interrupt my duel, even if I appear to be losing. I still prefer to try as long as I haven't lost for sure.
Regarding environmental kills you are absolutely right. I also do not use all of the gestures of respect as rules. It is meant to be an explicit gesture of respect and I only apply them situationally. But you are right that it is ultimately an arbitrary way to forfeit an advantage you might have had..
And no, I am not imposing it onto anyone :)

DSD_Breaker
02-08-2017, 01:00 AM
@Breaker: Hmmm. The 2v1 honor argument you make is a hard call. Personally I never want someone to interrupt my duel, even if I appear to be losing. I still prefer to try as long as I haven't lost for sure.

I totally understand the idea behind this way of playing, but in my opinion this is the reason why we have 1vs1 and 2vs2 game mode. If I always wait for the fight to finish I could just play two 1vs1 matches (except for the possible health difference it would basically be the same).

As a matter of fact, I actually enjoy it when two players come at me in a close 1vs2 fight. Okay, most times I will lose. But then there is also nothing better than being able to finish one of, go into revenge mode and even strike down the other one as well. That’s the moment I play 2vs2 for. That’s when I fight FOR HONOR! (even if I win without honor because I kick one player down somewhere)

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 01:06 AM
I totally understand the idea behind this way of playing, but in my opinion this is the reason why we have 1vs1 and 2vs2 game mode. If I always wait for the fight to finish I could just play two 1vs1 matches (except for the possible health difference it would basically be the same).

As a matter of fact, I actually enjoy it when two players come at me in a close 1vs2 fight. Okay, most times I will lose. But then there is also nothing better than being able to finish one of, go into revenge mode and even strike down the other one as well. That’s the moment I play 2vs2 for. That’s when I fight FOR HONOR! (even if I win without honor because I kick one player down somewhere)

Heh, i would be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy my 1v2s or 1v3s. I enjoy them a lot. And while I agree that those would no more occur if all people played by a similar code I don't see a big risk of that happening. I was rather thruthful when I said that I appreciate all playstyles :)

SF_JHawk373
02-08-2017, 02:16 AM
I like to feel it out, I assume if someone taunt/salutes before a 1v1 match that they will not ledge throw. I won't do it to start but if they do it to me first then it's game on.

For 2v2 by default I won't interfere until they do. So simply stated I give it a round or two as an assessment phase. This community is for too large to uphold the code and as others have stated all bets are off come raked play. It will be the ruthless that will rule.

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 02:22 AM
I like to feel it out, I assume if someone taunt/salutes before a 1v1 match that they will not ledge throw. I won't do it to start but if they do it to me first then it's game on.

For 2v2 by default I won't interfere until they do. So simply stated I give it a round or two as an assessment phase. This community is for too large to uphold the code and as others have stated all bets are off come raked play. It will be the ruthless that will rule.

Let me actually update the post regarding ranked play. So there is no confusion.

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 02:32 AM
All updated :) Its right at the end of the introduction

Reinborn
02-08-2017, 03:00 AM
First of all, very well written, whether anybody chooses to follow that code or not to, one definitely should choose to respect those who do as I personally concur with some of your points.

The word "honor", which everyone seems to perceive in their own way, could mean a lot of things (or only one thing) to every single individual. There is one thing that does not go hand-in-hand with that word - "teabagging", to dehonest your dead opponent whether it is a 1v1, 2v2 or 4v4.
I also use an emote in 1v1 while the camera is zoomed on me as a nice little gesture, just as I say "Good Fight!" or "Wow!" if the fight goes on for long and it's quite equal. Also, I generally do not use the same hero againts the same player that I already killed 2 times (or more) in 1v1, I would feel like that player doesn't know how to counter my recently played hero and I would end up switching to some other character, but that's just my conscience kicking in. :o

But the most debate is brought by the 2v1 situation in Brawl matches. I truly always abhor dislawful behavior, sneaky moves and all that one would recognize as a "bad thing to do". But I really see NOTHING (had to bold and caps that word to put more emphasis on it) wrong with jumping on the other enemy while I killed my opponent to make it 2v1. Just as I can do good by saving or helping my teammate, I might as well do some bad by giving our opponent more rage-meter points, which is the time when 2v1 can backfire, considering we're both around half way down our health, putting our opponent into an advantage.
From my teammates' perspective, if I still battle my guy 1v1 and you jump in to help me or to kill the guy from behind with a single slash, feel free to! If I were the one hit from behind, I would accept that and NOT call that there is "no honor" in that as nearly everyone does. People have some weird understanding of honor. I believe it's been said NUMEROUS times but I'll say it again - if I wait for my teammate to finish his fight after I killed my opponent, only to get into another 1v1, I might as well jump into 1v1 Duels instead of Brawl. :confused:

As for ranked matches? I'll do whatever I can to either help myself to win or to help my teammate and ensure my team doesn't die. The only thing I am definitely and always going to avoid, is dehonesting dead opponents.

That being said, I don't mind if I get jumped, ganked by another player while already fighting one and it turns out to be 1v2, let that happen - it's fine with me as I would do the same. If somebody uses the environment to harm me and/or throws me off a ledge and kills me immediately, whether it's a 1v1 or 4v4 - it's fine with me as I would do the same. If my opponents retreats to heal his wounds or calls for help of his allies then again - it's fine with me as I would do the same.
If there is any "code" or anything I live and play by, it's the following: "Do not do unto others what you do not want others do unto you." which immediately explains the upper paragraph.

edit: I definitely like this code but I think it's going a bit too far at some points - declining yourself an execution or letting an opponent escape to heal himself up while he may kill someone else on the way. To each their own, though. I will stick to my own creed but respect those who chose to follow this code,

bsftsfk
02-08-2017, 08:28 AM
Hey LordKaterchen,

I think, your idea lacks one very important thing: some kind of sign, which will let your opponent to know, that you intend to fight according to this Code.
Find the way how such players can show this at the very beginning of a fight and after victory. It should be very clear. The more players will recognize such behaviour the more people will treat it as really "cool" thing to do.

Lord_Binz
02-08-2017, 09:18 AM
I like your code. I will adhere to it (so long as I remember it), though clearly I will have my own, slightly different variant on it, depending on how the match goes.

But I really like some of the bits, especially saluting at the beginning to signal your intent to duel. And I also like people having their 1v1s, the battle isnt over till one person is dead so even if it looks like im losing, id appreciate being given the chance to finish the fight myself.

Aibjorn
02-08-2017, 10:33 AM
I wish I could re-pick. I thought you were talking about waiting on people to finish a duel and let them finish their execution. Because that's all I'm going to do, the rest of that stuff is dumb and un-necessary.

iHunny
02-08-2017, 12:53 PM
Nope.

whirly5
02-08-2017, 01:14 PM
no teabagging? forget it, lol ;)

Ragnar---
02-08-2017, 01:20 PM
In a game with 'I win buttons' I don't think this really works unless you role play lol.

K3NDOWOLF
02-08-2017, 01:27 PM
The idea behind this code is a good one, many valid points to which i will definitely adhere. I practiced Kendo (japanese fencing) during 5 years and like any japanese martial art there is great respect for your opponent whether you win or lose, no matter what their level, etc.

Having played a fair bit of Overwatch i was sort of shocked by the toxicity of the community, people throwing games and verbally abusing another person because they didn't want to switch characters and what not. It would be nice if For Honor had a very competitive community where players respected each other. Having said that, with such a large community we can't expect everyone to be respectful.

I don't see any problems in players pushing others off the ledge for example, it's a game mechanic to use to your advantage. But little things like not engaging an ongoing fight or not executing after a good fight i think is fine and can create a great atmosphere amongst players. Saying "Good Fight" is always good after a close combat, and i experienced this in the closed beta and i liked the respect give and shown.

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 03:40 PM
@Rein:
Thank you for your insights :) I think I will make another small update based upon it, that encompasses some of the points being part of the responses.

@bsftsfk:
Yeah .. but there is no actual gesture unique enough for this purpose. That is why I will simply use chat to announce that I will be playing by DCoH at the start of a match :) Being able to do so is one of the reasons for this post.

@Lord_Binz:
Glad to hear it :)

@Sky-Sweeper, iHunny, SillyFetus, whirly5:
Suit yourself :) (< Not a critique. Just the only way I know how to express it in English that it's fine. See you on the battlefield)

@VIctusMortuus:
I assume you are referring to the 'legde-fighting' discussion that is raging on since the event yesterday? I am not decided on this matter. There is no way to actually 'force' your opponent down the ledge that is uncounterable and most of them can be punished with quite some damage. It is not broken or anything but personally I could live with a little fewer ledges on the maps :) Just preferrence though, not a complaint.

@K3NDOWOLF:
Heh, yes I feel you. I did Katori-Shinto-Ryu, where there is not really much competition in comparison to Kendo, but I learned to properly respect the opponent through Go :)

Reaper_Sykko
02-08-2017, 04:46 PM
to me it really dépends , on 4v4 i dont give a fck about honor and the enemie team dont and shouldnt either , in 2v2 i accept that my Partner dont want me to Attack his prey , but in 2v2 i also love it when both the enemie gank me because 2v1 is so easy for me.

So no, i dont follow this glorified unspoken rule , and somtimes i dont want my enemies to follow it either.

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 05:55 PM
to me it really dépends , on 4v4 i dont give a fck about honor and the enemie team dont and shouldnt either , in 2v2 i accept that my Partner dont want me to Attack his prey , but in 2v2 i also love it when both the enemie gank me because 2v1 is so easy for me.

So no, i dont follow this glorified unspoken rule , and somtimes i dont want my enemies to follow it either.

There isn't much glorifiaction going on and I took some effort to have it as a spoken one. Though it is a rule of choice and not a rule to be imposed onto others.
And I updated the end of the introduction accordingly regarding being ganked :)

ausknipsr
02-08-2017, 06:19 PM
well, i think i will have to decide ingame. while i absolutely dig the first part of your code (by that i mean the "manners matter"-section), i might be asking "dcoh?" at the beginning of every duel, the reply of my enemy will set the ground rules of the match, easy as that.

SournoisFox
02-08-2017, 06:23 PM
What a bloody coincidence, 80% of the things described in this code I have already followed in the Closed Beta.



Still, a nicely written post. Hope more people will follow these rules, especially the first "Mind your Manners" ones.

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 07:46 PM
@ausknipsr:
First of all, great name (see what you did there ^.^). Second of all great profile picture. The Meow wills it xD Exactly!
As for your post: I love the idea of basically making somewhat of an agreeement with your opponent based on the DCoH :) Still that would need for the DCoH to become somewhat of common knowledge in the community and that might be hard to do. Though I would appreciate any help. Still hoping to get a sticky for this thread.

@SournoisFox:
Hehehe xD I guess I beat you to the curb then. It was a lot of work, you didn't miss much ;)
Yeah, the first rules are listed first for a reason.

Gregjader
02-08-2017, 08:19 PM
I have applied most of those rules in the Beta and don't intend to make any changes to my playstyle. However this courtesy I only extend to 1v1 or 2v2 game modes with Elimination as a possible exception. Dominion is in and for all intended purposes WAR.

Haus_Gnom
02-08-2017, 08:58 PM
So, while I basically play by those same rules you have written, I consider it not honorable to hit a player during an execution.

Furthermore, I think all this bowing stuff is a little much and I will normally not engage in that.

Apart from that, looking forward to meeting you on the battlefield :D

DraxeI
02-08-2017, 09:12 PM
Like some people here, I've sort of naturally felt like this is the "right" way to play from the start.

I do hope this code will bring more people into this type of play! ;)

ausknipsr
02-08-2017, 09:43 PM
@ausknipsr:
Still that would need for the DCoH to become somewhat of common knowledge in the community and that might be hard to do. Though I would appreciate any help. Still hoping to get a sticky for this thread.


Thanks, same to you. And well, looks like you got your sticky thread.
As for the knowledge, this will be a particular hard thing to do. asking "dcoh?" at the beginning of every duel/brawl might get people to google it, tho...

LordKaterchen
02-08-2017, 10:22 PM
@Gregjader:
You are not the only one that I hear this from. A lot of people make an expclicit difference between dominion and the other playmodes regardings their codes of honor. Which I can understand :)

@Haus_Gnom:
Then your code goes beyond even mine xD Which is kind of cool.
See you on the battlefield, keep your weapon sharp :)

@Draxel:
I hope so too. It is also an awareness thing. I am very glad the thread got pinned but I will also annoucne to play by DCoH in every match with new teammates. Mostly to warn them honestly but it's a nice side-effect if it spreads the knowledge :)

@Ausknipsr:
Thanks, made me very Happy :)
And I think that just mentioning it in game will help a lot!

THEGODLYNESS
02-08-2017, 11:00 PM
I do a lot of brawl with my bro. If they gank first we then gank back. If they taunt in a not friendly manner they get humpty danced back. Not angry with them or even care to much win or lose. But turn about is fair play.

So why yes this seems fine. In practice after beating an opponent(s) a few rounds with out the gank they inevitably throw "honor" to the wind and try to win any way possible. Gank ledge spam (which is perfectly fine my fault for getting thrown off and even walking me next to him)

But bots have 0 honor. They will rush no matter what and even do it at the start of the match. Only natural for people to emulate them.

TheEpicRage
02-08-2017, 11:40 PM
To admit defeat is to blaspheme against the emperor.

Seriously though rules 1 through 4 should be common practice for all.

FOR RUSS AND THE ALL FATHER!

Jenovacide
02-09-2017, 02:21 AM
I like your code of Honour, but I have my own. I will acknowledge this, but my own code dictates Honour In Glory, and it's dishonourable to let a brother-in-arms be slain whilst I watch

Still a bloody awesome code, however. I hope most abide by some of this code, and keep it toxic free and whilst my code is Honour in Glory, if the better team wins and I lose it'll be fine. All a learning experience!

Goat3_Saeko
02-09-2017, 03:16 AM
ok in 2v2 i can accept it but in the dominion mode or in elimination how do u expect people to do only 1v1? i know i dont cuz is a team fight.

THEPH0NECOMPANY
02-09-2017, 06:16 AM
Made up my mind at no teabagging, but not abusing balance issue ruins the game as a whole, if you pretend they are not there the devs have less incentive to make their game better, it slows down the evolution of the game mechanics, in that fight it might be better but becomes toxic to the community if everyone follows it

LordKaterchen
02-09-2017, 09:11 AM
@THEGODLYNESS:
Yeah, I also saw it often enough that pepople would appear to follow similar rules, but when they start losing, they abandon the idea. I can honestly say myself that I haven't done it yet, but I very much understand the temptation.
Also screw bots xD There is no Honor against bots.

@TheEpicRage:
Should be, but I see them violated more oft than not. And Judging by experience from other multiplayer titles over the last two ... well ... decades (holy crap, I'm old) it will only get worse, the better people become at this game. Saw it with every game so far. With their own skill and understanding of the game rising people's expectations towards themselves and other players tend to go out of control.

@Jenovacide:
Glad you liked it. And sure, play by your own code. According to the poll that is what most people will do. As for the toxicity. The best one can do is not to participate in it ^.^

@Irriducibili84:
That is the good thing. I don't 'expect' anyone to keep to this. I go into the game fully expecting my opponents to do everything they can to win. The code is not based on your opponent also complying :) It's a personal choice

@THEPH0NECOMPANY:
I never said you should pretend balance Issues are not there :) You should watch out for it and constructively share your opninion so the devs can improve the game as quickly as possible. The rule only states not to complain about it DURING a match, it's not the time and place for it. During a match it usually serves no other purpose than justifying an unsuccessful round.

TheBidenhander
02-09-2017, 11:19 AM
This is mostly cool, but I just can't bring myself to eliminate the Conqueror's airhumping.

I just can't, mang.

V3ri
02-09-2017, 12:02 PM
Thank you for your summary.
Since I have already played my whole live by almost exactly these rules in every other game and having accepted and imbrased disadvantages on my own terms of honor without ever mentioning them to my oponents.
e.g. playing all CoD´s without perks or letting myself be noticed by using headbut(sap) before using ambush and backstab ... :D
I also love 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5 situations! That gets the blood pumping and brings honor for the clan.
I also never openly flamed other players(at least last 10 years) for their gameplay or have been unfriendly or unhonorble to other players, therfore

I pledge allegiance to the DCoH and swear to uphold its principles and rules for the EMPEROR until death!

JudgeGavri-EL
02-09-2017, 12:21 PM
I agree to almost all of the rule except for the rule of courage. In dominion mode, The assassin class would be of much disadvantage since they can only take a few hits and are designed to flee if they are low in health.

I'll form my own code but it will be based on this one. Great article!

See you on the battlefield :cool:

Braegulfer
02-09-2017, 02:22 PM
Super cool that you took the time to put this together, and a totally fun read. One quick note (I teach English Composition at college); very early on in the piece you write, "we do not intend to derive from this code," or something very similar. I am almost positive you meant to write deviate. Honestly, if so much care had not been put into writing it I probably wouldn't have bothered to even bring it up. I'm not typically a grammaticaster--I swear. It was too well written to not bring it up. Good stuff mate.

LordKaterchen
02-09-2017, 03:11 PM
@TheBidenhander:
Ahahaha xD I guess if you are already used to it you'd fell like losing something.

@V3ri:
I am ... almost speechless ^.^''
I would say 'welcome aboard' but judging by your explanation 'Oh, someone else was already on the ship!' would be more fitting :) See you on the battlefield

@DanTheJudge:
Sure go ahead. Hope to witness your own code in action. See you on the battlefield!

@Elebreon:
So much justification for a move that I appreciate to begin with. I don't feel attacked, I am thankful for every error you uncover. There is a reason editors get payed for their work. If you find anything else, please let me know!
Embarassing still <.< You think that you finally reached the eloquency of a native speaker in English and then something like this happens!

Ninder
02-09-2017, 03:59 PM
I got my own CoH which basically consists of treating 2v2s as 1v1s. In Dominion there are in my eyes too few duels and the whole game mode is very much centered around not dueling. But if I get the chance for one I will take it.

But how do you treat teammates that don't follow your CoH? Let's say in a 2v2 your teammate kills his opponent and now charges into your duel. Do you drop it and let those two fight it out until you get the chance for the 1v1?

LordKaterchen
02-09-2017, 04:30 PM
@Ninder

If I am engaged in a 1v1 and an ally joins the fray, so that we would outnumber the enemy, I will keep my lock on the enemy and try to get out of the fight in a controlled fashion. If the enemy chases after and keeps attacking I will passively defend myself without counter-attacking until he ceases to attack me. I basically treat it like my ally claiming my duel for himself.

If I am already fighting multiple enemies (which I do enjoy to be honest) and an ally comes to help and evens the numbers I will just continue fighting.

Mathonn
02-10-2017, 04:46 AM
I like the concept, but if you're playing by these rules with randoms in team modes, you're screwing them over if you can't back it up with serious ability.

GTCSeventhSon
02-10-2017, 07:43 AM
We need a section about how to respond to other people not following the code of honor. I see so much outrage when someone isn't honorable and then they feel justified to be as ridiculous and dishonorable as possible. Honor is living by the code even in the face of one who doesn't.

Ryumanjisen
02-10-2017, 08:34 AM
Well, since I've been playing by these rules since the closed Alpha, I hereby declare I abide by your Code of Honor, LordKaterchen. I will continue to use the enviroment (the wise warrior use every tool at his disposal), but the rest of your points of etiquette are very reasonable.

Your original post was very well put, by the way. Quite a good reading.

LordKaterchen
02-10-2017, 10:23 AM
@Mathonn:
I hope to bring serious ability to the table ^.^
But even if I didn't. Even if I was just a beginner. Combined with the handicap that I put on myself my matchmaking rating (In the long run) would be low enough to still bring an appropriate win-chance to my team. I explained this a little in the section targeted at players who not follow the code.

@GTCSeventhSon:
I agree. You apply honor even if your opponent does not. I hoped this would be apparent! But just in case I updated the post (end of introducion) to clarify this :) Thank you for the feedback.

@Ryumanjisen:
I am glad to hear it and thank you very much! Hope to see you on the battlefield :)
(Also it is Katerchen, not Kater-chan. It's .... a german word. To be more precise it's the diminutive of 'tomcat'. But it is extremely hard to pronounce in English and Kater-chan basically has the same meaning so nevermind I guess xD)

AkenoKobayashi
02-11-2017, 01:55 AM
I certainly agree with them and already used some before reading this. Of course, nothing is certain and survival comes first.

CHeapSHeets
02-11-2017, 01:57 AM
Really, just stop. This is a videogame. Any "Honor" I have is for my team and my faction, NOT my enemy. This isn't the place for ancient battlefield ethics and whatnot. I'll be darned if I just stand by and watch my teammate get dismantled, only for the victor to pop Revenge and destroy me as well. No, not gonna happen. I play to win. Want an honorable duel? Play 1v1. Period.

LordKaterchen
02-11-2017, 02:05 AM
@Flyin Japman4:
Glad you agree with most

@CHeapSHeets:
That is your choice and that is fine :) But playing the game like this is more fun to me and also to a lot of other people. If you look at the polls it seems thaat about 70% of people are concerned with some idea of honor in this game. You should not be bothered by other players playing another way.

Jaggyr
02-11-2017, 03:24 AM
Ok, too much effort on something people will NOT follow; War/Conflict, like Life, is NEVER Fair and almost NEVER polite or courteous.. To think any amount of time spent pledging others to behave any differently is a waste of time and effort.

Mathonn
02-11-2017, 03:26 AM
@Mathonn:
I hope to bring serious ability to the table ^.^
But even if I didn't. Even if I was just a beginner. Combined with the handicap that I put on myself my matchmaking rating (In the long run) would be low enough to still bring an appropriate win-chance to my team. I explained this a little in the section targeted at players who not follow the code.

I think you overestimate their matchmaking.

As I said, I can respect people having a code of honor, i have one as well, and I appreciate you including acknowledgement that differing codes are as viable and should not be considered dishonorable, I've been arguing that all over. Be aware though that this code being fun for you could be at the expense of fun for the players around you.

CHeapSHeets
02-11-2017, 06:48 AM
@LordKaterchen

If your idea of being honorable is hanging your teammates out to dry, then yes, count me out. In 2V2 you have a responsibility to your teammate, not your enemy. Why not just do 1V1? Seriously, I'd like to know the answer. Do you need some kind of "validation" for your honorable actions that can only be achieved by a witness? I DO take issue with this nonsense because now you'll have idiots running around insulting players saying this person has honor, but THAT person has no honor. You don't know me...I'm just playing a videogame, not competing in some medieval ethics contest that's gonna get my teammate killed. Your poll proves nothing with it's ridiculously small sample of players. I'd suggest that maybe you create a Guild or something and only play with yourselves because I certainly won't be appreciating your virtuous honor code while you stand there and watch me get killed.

LordKaterchen
02-11-2017, 12:48 PM
@Jaggyr:
I am not trying to convince people to follow this code. I am providing an umbrella term and explanation for the convenience of people who were playing in a a simillar fashion already anyway. I am not even trying to change anything :)
Also in playing most of the versions of For Honor so far and also extensively for the last two days I saw people with similar mindests remarkably often.

@Mathonn:
Seeing as I played 8 hours straight yesterday ... from my experience I have to agree that Matchmaking appears a little bit wonky at the moment. But that is probably because all ELO-type systems (wth a matchmaking rating) need quite a number of games to stabilize and we had both - a great influx of new players and a lot of veterans from older test versions - for which the 'start rating' was the same in open beta. So currently it appears random but I assume it will stabilize in the long run after release.

As for your second point. In the cases where this actually is true, that is what the explicit apology was meant for.

@CHeapSHeets:
First of all. If we are talking about a videogame, like you emphasize, I do not perceive Players from the other team as enemies, but rather as opponents who would like to have just as much fun with the game as anyone else.
And as you might imagine - your post is an excellent example - I do not get that much 'validation' out of it. In the last two days of beta during play my code of honor was neither acknowledged nor complimented. Not even once. And I am pretty fine with it ^.^

But let me get to the biggest issue: The issue of people running around, abiding some code of honor, and flaming/reproaching/belittling other players for not doing so.

I do not like such people and I do not approve of them doing this. And anyone doing this is not playing by DCoH.

If you had actually taken the time to read my post you would have noticed not only the first Rule, which is the Rule of Preference, explicitly forbidding any such action, but you would have also seen the multiple times I emphasized that me playing by this code does NOT imply any kind of judgement towards other players.
Hence I do not understand why you say "You don't know me...", I never attacked you in the first place. You can play as win oriented as you like. At worst I would like you to be nice about it :)

In regards to watching 'my teammate getting killed' (assuming he is in a 1v1. I would always support if he was outnumbered). In that regard you are right, and that is also exactly the situation that my apology in the thread is meant for.

Ah! And as for the sample size. While it is not enough to be truly represantative of all players (starting with only representing forum enthusiasts), it is also not a worthless indication. Especially since the percentages for each answer have been stable and only fluctuating in -3/+3 % since around 40 votes.

Warphorntek
02-11-2017, 02:55 PM
I like idea of setting "order" into this game. I am quite into it coz blamers are in numbers and its alwas nice to show em different attitute. I must admire that i feel sort of satisfaction too. Long story short. I agree with almost everything you said . I disagree with some minor thigs which are chooseable to do so ye . i am in.
PS: Maybe its that feeling which bring you above anger to avoid it :) just like it

The4orTy67
02-11-2017, 05:25 PM
I really like this code, such a shame I am being constantly battled in groups of 2 or more.

WTWR_Zydrate
02-11-2017, 05:57 PM
Giving this one a hard no. Too many handicaps that allow the enemy get an advantage over me. I like to win.

WALKMANmr
02-11-2017, 06:10 PM
this is just going to far
it's a game
go practice HEMA if you want that kinda stuff

LordKaterchen
02-11-2017, 07:43 PM
@G6_Warphorntek:
Welcome aboard then :) And yes. Turns out, that my biggest struggle regarding the DCoH is to get past the assumption, that I demand everyone to follow this. There have been (and are still) so many threads where people complain about others being 'honorless', that the players focussed on winning just assume this to be another reproach.

@The4orTy67:
I don't perceive that as a shame. I actually enjoy fighting multiple opponents at once :)

@ZydrateVIals:
Then go ahead and focus on winning. Nobdy should mind ^.^

@WALKMANmr:
Why is this going to far? It is a game - exactly - and I merely described how I like to play it. If anything,
As for HEMA, I am already doing that ^.^

Reinborn
02-12-2017, 05:12 AM
Ï'm afraid this whole "honor" thing has really gotten out of hand. People go around, insulting others for having no honor for attacking others in a 4v4 or 2v2 game. I've seen a couple of people actually call it out before the Elimination match started, one guy said: "hey, lets be honorable - no ganking and respect 1v1" and that was in a 4v4 match mind you. My head almost bursted. I'm sure it's not @LordKaterchen's doing as he cannot affect and is not responsible for people that do not stop from forcing their way of honor onto others but this whole thread surely contributed to this whole thing in a bad way. :nonchalance:

What upsets me the most is that I/we end up being called "dishonorable" (by some little guy whose only understanding of honor is "no 2v1") for playing the game it was designed and meant to be. And like I said, it's really going too far. I always did and always will support honorable DUELS in an actual 1v1 game mode scenario. If the guy asks for no throwing off ledge or other environmental kills, I will gladly agree to it but I will never follow anyone's made up rules that would limit me in any way. And I will always do whatever it takes to survive and win if it's either 2v2 or 4v4 game mode. Only if I am specifically asked to not interve a particular moment, I shall not, but I won't do it automatically therefore noone should expect me to.
The only times I decide to not jump into the fight is when one guy is already fighting 2 or 3 more and I would just get in way and it would look redicilous as I might also accidentally hit my teammates.
I honor my team, not my enemy.

I feel like this is an endless topic, lol. Two sides of the barricade.


tl;dr
The entire "honor" trend is all over the place and us, who don't want to have anything to do with either following any sort of code or not, end up paying the price regardless by being called names and end up looking like the bad guys.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-12-2017, 09:51 AM
Of course 90% of people won't follow this.


90% of the people who play this can't win 1 v 1 if they had god's own help.

So they will just roam in groups or gank like pansies.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-12-2017, 09:53 AM
Ï'm afraid this whole "honor" thing has really gotten out of hand. People go around, insulting others for having no honor for attacking others in a 4v4 or 2v2 game. I've seen a couple of people actually call it out before the Elimination match started, one guy said: "hey, lets be honorable - no ganking and respect 1v1" and that was in a 4v4 match mind you. My head almost bursted. I'm sure it's not @LordKaterchen's doing as he cannot affect and is not responsible for people that do not stop from forcing their way of honor onto others but this whole thread surely contributed to this whole thing in a bad way. :nonchalance:

What upsets me the most is that I/we end up being called "dishonorable" (by some little guy whose only understanding of honor is "no 2v1") for playing the game it was designed and meant to be. And like I said, it's really going too far. I always did and always will support honorable DUELS in an actual 1v1 game mode scenario. If the guy asks for no throwing off ledge or other environmental kills, I will gladly agree to it but I will never follow anyone's made up rules that would limit me in any way. And I will always do whatever it takes to survive and win if it's either 2v2 or 4v4 game mode. Only if I am specifically asked to not interve a particular moment, I shall not, but I won't do it automatically therefore noone should expect me to.
The only times I decide to not jump into the fight is when one guy is already fighting 2 or 3 more and I would just get in way and it would look redicilous as I might also accidentally hit my teammates.
I honor my team, not my enemy.

I feel like this is an endless topic, lol. Two sides of the barricade.


tl;dr
The entire "honor" trend is all over the place and us, who don't want to have anything to do with either following any sort of code or not, end up paying the price regardless by being called names and end up looking like the bad guys.

Hey if you wanna play like a dirtbag then go for it.


But in a game where you have the option to play properly but choose not to you have no right to be excluded from shaming or namecalling.



If you play like a dirtbag then you are gonna be treated like one.


And there isn't "two sides of the barricade" here. There is one side and the people who disagree with it. Here you have the DEV suggesting how they wanted the game to be played in a game that is called FOR HONOR. If you play like a dirtbag you don't get to say "Oh well I am just playing by my own rules/Honor"


No you are not. You are playing like a dirtbag therefore you are a dirtbag. End of story. No arguments to be made.

LordKaterchen
02-12-2017, 12:09 PM
@SahrotRein:
Yes, I have witnessed such by myself and I wish it wasn't like that.
Look, there is a reason why the rules are sorted this way and also a reason why the first rule is in first place. I wish people wouldn't see the title, assume something and then just skim the read but obviously it does happen, despite all the emphasized, colored bold statements that are right at the beginning of the introduction. Still, this 'honor' thing getting out of hand has been happening way before this thread. I mean it when I say, that I have seen dozens of threads escalating into nastiness. Also thank you for not putting this on me.

I am not on either side of the barricade :) Neither is the DCoH.

Let me just assure you, that I explicitly do not approve of this whole 'others are dishonorable' thing. Which brings me to my next response. Oh boy, here we go...

@CoyoteXStarrk:
I will try to be calm about this. But I basically disagree with everything you said. Strongly:

1. I am not a DEV and if you had read even the FIRST LINE of my thread you would know that
2. You haven't read anything else of the thread either obviously. Because if you had read the start of the introduction or any of the rules, including the most important Rule of Preference you would not assume me to be on your side in this.

So at this point I can only assume that you saw the title and assumed it to express whatever your view of 'honor' is... which is an indication for exactly the kind of - sorry - ignorance that I would assume from someone acting so pretentiously and demeaning to others for not sharing his views.

While I do not assume that you will, I would actually advise you to give the thread a read before you post a reply. Most people, even those who disagree actually seemd to think it is a good read at least.

As for your shaming and namecalling...
Let me just say that I deem what you do here to be just as toxic as any guy calling out 'ez' after a game, teabagging there fallen enemy or indulge in other behaviour solely for the purpose of lessening other peoples enjoyment of the game.

Honor is personal choice that you stick to even if it puts you at a disadvantage or is uncomfortable. And it includes respecting others, even if they don't share your opinion.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-12-2017, 12:21 PM
TL;DR



If you jump in on a legitimate 1 v 1 you are a dirtbag.


Call it whatever you want.


You have the option to play correctly if you don't then you can't claim "I am playing by my own rules" No you are not. You are a scrub who can't win on his own and relies on the help of others to win.

The game is literally called FOR HONOR


If you play without it you can and WILL be looked down upon and you are not good at the game until you realize that fact and respect it.


If you can't beat me one on one and rely on ganking or gang mentality you are not better than me skill wise. It just means you are more afraid of me than I am of you.

LordKaterchen
02-12-2017, 12:26 PM
If you jump in on a legitimate 1 v 1 you are a dirtbag.


Call it whatever you want.


You have the option to play correctly if you don't then you can't claim "I am playing by my own rules" No you are not. You are a scrub who can't win on his own and relies on the help of others to win.

The game is literally called FOR HONOR


If you play without it you can and WILL be looked down upon and you are not good at the game until you realize that fact and respect it.

This is my last reply to you. Solely to inform you that I choose not to communicate with people who do not even bother reading responses ^.^ Enjoy the game, I hope we do not meet. Please refrain from further posting in this thread.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-12-2017, 12:31 PM
This is my last reply to you. Solely to inform you that I choose not to communicate with people who do not even bother reading responses ^.^ Enjoy the game, I hope we do not meet. Please refrain from further posting in this thread.

I love how you come from a part of the internet that TL;DR implies I didn't read it and not simply "That is alot of text I don't want it to clog up my post so I am gonna clip it and be snooty about it"


I read it (Sadly) and my point still stands. There is a right and wrong to the way this game is played based purely on the way the game is designed and even named.


If you go against that you are automatically lower than those who play by its rules and standards. Just like spawn campers or drop shotters are looked down upon in other games you can and WILL be considered of lesser skill by doing it.


Call it whatever you want though Because I honestly could care less whether you agree. If you break the rules you are below me. The reasons you use to justify that fact is meaningless to me.


But please go ahead and ignore my perfectly valid points.


Just proves me right lol

CoyoteXStarrk
02-12-2017, 01:00 PM
I will even put it another way


Situation #1


Your teammate is fighting against an enemy and its a close fight.


You hang back and your teammate wins by skin of his teeth. You guys take the point together.


Situation #2

Your Teammate is fighting against an enemy and its a close fight.


You jump in out of nowhere and blindside the enemy for the kill.

You capture the point with no effort whatsoever.



Now which situation is the morally correct situation given the game and its principles.


If you have an argument for #2 you are automatically wrong by sheer common sense given the circumstances.

XxHunterHxX
02-12-2017, 04:13 PM
or you can just go play 1 v 1 ? if they wanted the game to be 1 v 1 they wold never add 4 v 4 or 2 v 2

Mathonn
02-12-2017, 04:27 PM
I love how you come from a part of the internet that TL;DR implies I didn't read it and not simply "That is alot of text I don't want it to clog up my post so I am gonna clip it and be snooty about it"


I read it (Sadly) and my point still stands. There is a right and wrong to the way this game is played based purely on the way the game is designed and even named.


If you go against that you are automatically lower than those who play by its rules and standards. Just like spawn campers or drop shotters are looked down upon in other games you can and WILL be considered of lesser skill by doing it.


Call it whatever you want though Because I honestly could care less whether you agree. If you break the rules you are below me. The reasons you use to justify that fact is meaningless to me.


But please go ahead and ignore my perfectly valid points.


Just proves me right lol

First, TL;DR literally means "Too long; Didn't Read".

Second, you and many others seem to lack a full understanding of the concept of honor, the differences between having honor and gaining honor, and how codes of honor are affected by personal influence, culture, and the object of the code. There is not a universal code of honor that all beings are bound to follow and judged under.

Third, to claim that you are honorable and others aren't because you follow some code you have and they don't, and then to berate or insult them simply proves point two.

Finally, the title is hardly an argument for what the devs intended, particularly since it is a relatively clear allusion to the phrase "For Honor and Glory". The fact that there are no rules in place to support you, the 2v2 mode is labeled Brawl Mode, the A.I. pursues 2v1 opportunities, and certain classes (Conquror) earn renown by kill assists, suggests that the devs are well aware that honor is not as strict as you want to believe.

But thanks for playing.

LordKaterchen
02-12-2017, 07:30 PM
@SiewcaRaka:
You came to play the game this way and you still can, nobody is hindering you ^.^

@Eviler-SP-:
I hear that argument a lot but it is not actually correct.
1. Even if tend to duel and let others fight duels. Having the victory depend on both me and my teammate winning or one of us beating two opponents in one round if the other screws up is still a different game mode and feeling than actual 1v1. It is still a team effort. Like Team vs Team as a series in 1v1s in starcraft pro gaming for example.
2. I honestly don't know how much it matters how the devs wanted the game to be played (no disrespect, dear developers). I think it is their part to give players a platform that the players enjoy playing on. How exactly the players do that is more up to them.
3. And I cannot stress that enough - I am not demanding, nor do I want every single player to play this way. I just explained why I prefer to.

@Mathonn:
I agree with everything you said, but would advise you not to engage in this discussion with said individual. I don't think that an actual discussion is his goal, as almost every single of his forum posts appears to be inflammatory and get personal very quickly :)

forrest0755
02-12-2017, 11:29 PM
"You don't fight with honor,"

"No, but he did,"

Fighting, "honorably," justs makes it more likely that you will die. There is no honor in war. Your only goal is to survive, and to make sure your team survives.

fariic
02-13-2017, 02:24 AM
4v4 matches you should not be letting your teammate fall.

You dishonor your faction when you let a teammate fall, and grant the enemy more war assets.

Imp-C-Bravo
02-13-2017, 02:36 AM
Stuff

Well written and concise. You obviously spent a lot of time into a subject that is very important to you. Much respect.

I did, however, vote absolutely not.

Salty_Tincan
02-13-2017, 03:45 AM
I can never give up on missing any oportunity for environmental kills.
Also this applies to unranked, if you go for wins, then 100% all the time.
Having a challenge is what normal gameplay is about.
Ranked though, is where you excercise the results of your hardships.

(Should there be a ranked mode in the game ~~dunno if it will~~ making hypothesis)

Reinborn
02-13-2017, 03:46 AM
Hey if you wanna play like a dirtbag then go for it.


But in a game where you have the option to play properly but choose not to you have no right to be excluded from shaming or namecalling.



If you play like a dirtbag then you are gonna be treated like one.


And there isn't "two sides of the barricade" here. There is one side and the people who disagree with it. Here you have the DEV suggesting how they wanted the game to be played in a game that is called FOR HONOR. If you play like a dirtbag you don't get to say "Oh well I am just playing by my own rules/Honor"


No you are not. You are playing like a dirtbag therefore you are a dirtbag. End of story. No arguments to be made.

That was very straightforward response. I suppose my post took a different turn and I let myself carry away a bit but one should definitely not expect others to fight honorably in 4v4s. If you do and I see that, I can get on that level and do the same gladly. I can definitely respect that in elimination match if it's called out early in the match, if it's not, I'll see how it goes. Provided there is a couple that has been fighting for a while, I will let them finish.
As I mentioned in my previous post the person that called the "no ganking, respect duels" in 4v4, I was surprised but then I respected it and played by it because people requried it. That's my whole point but if it's not called in 4v4, I will play the way to save my teammates from dying, unless it's the situation I spoke of in the previous paragraph.
When it comes to 2v2, I in majority of cases let the other duo finish undisturbed even if that contradicts my whole view on this.

Long story short, I in the end, always play honorably in 1v1s - in actual duels, as it should be. In elimination matches whenever it's called out or I see that it wouldn't be nice from me to disrupt a fight, I stay away and let them fight. But in Dominion matches I rarely do any of the above, unless it's the very end of the match, enemy team is breaking with just 1 guy left fighting somebody from our team, so I let them finish and I just stand by.
Please, it hurts me to see you assume that I play like a "dirtbag" (btw, do you have some affinity to this word or what? :confused:), I adapt to situation and behave by it. I do not, by any means, ever mean to be dishonorable when it's uncalled for. If I get jumped in Brawl match, expect me to do that in return the next round, but I am not going to be the first to do it, I only return the favor - not initiating it.

I am not entirely for or againts the DCoH but at the same time, I fully respect those who are completely committed to it and I appreciate that @LordKaterchen is not forcing this code on anyone and stays neutral in this thread. That alone should make one consider at least some points of his codex.

Butonfly
02-13-2017, 07:02 AM
It sounds like you want to roleplay, which is fine. You could actually achieve the same result simply by writing your own fanfic and posting it on the forums. In fact you probably should retain your code strictly to the forums.

If you're not playing to win, you're not playing the game. You're playing some game, but not <b>the</b> game.

Do yourself and the game a service. Play the game mode, play the objective, play to win.

Vikko2
02-13-2017, 08:59 AM
I'd say the first four mandatory rules you have here are just fine, but the last two are debatable.

Numbers kind of depends on who gangs up first for me. I wouldn't do it, but if it's already be done to me at any given point, then I'll start doing it too since then it'd be fair with no surprises.
If the game allows for it, then it is allowed, technically speaking. While I think the starting post already gets this across, I just like to reinforce it.

If my opponent has the first opportunity to give me the chance to fight one-on-one after my teammate's gone down (in say a Brawl), then I'll issue the same kindness back. I would do the same thing if I got the opportunity to do so first as well. However, as soon as an opponent even tries to attack me as a group, every rule goes down- even more so if I've already issued that kindness to them.

As for the one about 'courage', I think running for recovery is perfectly reasonable. Whether it's someone out of stamina or low on health, it's fine by me, makes things more dynamic. Duel arenas aren't big enough to safely run around without being smacked up a little anyway, and running for stamina in Dominion or something is kind of just a waste of time. Running away in Dominion to heal leaves an opening for the opponent to either do other stuff or cap the point you were defending, even if it's less time than if they were to die.

The thing about the rules of this applying to Dominion, and perhaps Elimination, is that the chaotic element of it is what makes it fun. It feels more like war where everything is meant to be chaotic, or a skirmish between two factions who crossed paths somewhere- which seems to be what they were going for with these modes.

Just my two cents and don't mean any disrespect. I like the idea, but it's a little strict in my honest opinion in some aspects.
However, it really is just a "niceness guideline" that intends to make the game more fun for everyone, and that I can appreciate.

To sum things up, I only have a problem with running to heal in Dominion being labelled as dishonourable, as there are advantages and disadvantages to doing so. In 4v4, it's unlikely that all members of the game would comply anyway.

Personally, I find these rules to be fine in 1v1 and 2v2, but I don't think it should be held against anyone in any 4v4 scenario and was a little saddened to see it inclusive to 4v4 as chaotic strategy is its strong point.

One last thing, even though you've listed it as optional, I think executions whenever possible should always be done. If I get executed, I know they deserved to do it for landing a heavy attack on me as the final strike.

LordKaterchen
02-13-2017, 11:38 AM
@SiewcaRaka:
I still don't intend to make it easy for you, so ... come at me xD

@forrest0755:
Thank god it's a game that I play for enjoyment and not war then :)
I am very well aware that I am putting myself at a disadvantage though.

@fariic:
That doesn't really apply. People are not matched by their chosen Faction. Despite playing for one faction I might be in a team with 3 people from another and you are not even limited to the heroes of your faction (which is a good thing).
Still, if my goal was to optimize war assets for my faction I would have to actually try to lose if I assume or know that most of my teammates are not in my own faction. Which I am not going to do ^.^

@Imp-C-Bravo:
Very well... I appreciate the respect and see you on the battlefield :)

@Salty_Tincan: (Love the name by the way)
Sure thing. Go for your env kills always. For me it's still situational, i.e. depending on the behaviour of my opponent to a certain degree.
As for the disparaty between ranked and unranked, I agree. That is why I included the updates at the end of the introduction.

@SahrotRein:
You do seem to have a position somewhere in the grey area which I very much appreciate.
Also thank you for not misjudging my intent. Happens quite often sadly ^.^

@Butonfly:
No, no it really would not be the same ^.^
And I am still aiming to win my games, I am just not playing optimally. I see the DCoH more as a meta game decision. Like playing a suboptimal build on a hero in a MOBA. Or playing a class/hero which counts as horribly underpowered in current meta to begin with. If you play solely for the win you would just not do that, but as it stands I choose to play like this because it is more enjoyable for me. Just like picking a bad hero/class/champion or a fun but suboptimal build might be more fun.

I do not buy into the argumentation that the only way to enjoy a multiplayer game is by optimizing your win chances. I actually think that this might even be the part where quite a fraction of players lose their fun over.

Now if we get seperate modes for ranked or unranked I will gladly (as stated in the updates) limit the self-handicapping rules and gestures of the DCoH to the unranked modes. Ranked modes are implicitly about the competition and there I would try to play for the win as well. (Granted, I would not engage in psychological warfare. Rules 1-4 still apply)

@Vikko2:
First of all, thank you for the extensive writeup.
Your points are perfectly reasonable, I see no flaw in them. In the end the choices of where I handicap myself and how and for what reason are puerly arbitrary. If you don't go by a play to win strategy (i. e. 100% effectiveness) you have to draw the line somewhere in the sand and the DCoH just represents where that arbitrary line is for me. It has turned out to be the right balance between not being to much of a handicap but still having enough (arbitrarily imagined) 'meaning' to me :)
As for your bold print, just let me make one correction. I am not calling anyone or any playstyle dishonorable.

m0u-1337
02-13-2017, 11:42 AM
I have played some games now and i never interrupted 1vs1 fights when my oponent was dead. But i have seen so many people who dont care about that that i, in return, give a sht about it now, too. i will from now on start 2vs1 just to be sure.

LordKaterchen
02-13-2017, 11:54 AM
@m0u-1337
I know that 1337 is common terminology. but seeing it with a dash after your name. Are you guys actually a clan? Because if so, I think I saw and fought some of your teammates in brawl :)
And what you describe is what I would call the 'DayZ'-effect :) Not going to explain it, but some people will surely understand.
I understand that you don't want to put yourself at a disadvantage and if it bothers you to do so, then you shouldn't. Play to win and enjoy the game ^.^

m0u-1337
02-13-2017, 12:03 PM
No, i have the "1337" only because m0u was too short and i was too lazy to think about an alternative name :P I have no clan, so i dont know the people you spoke about :)

Yeah, maybe you are right about the day-z effect. Thats totally what i meant by that. if my enemy does follow the 1vs1-rule i will follow, too. But initially i don't.

dariothebest97
02-13-2017, 01:21 PM
I'll do my best to follow this code as much as possible

RoosterIlluzion
02-13-2017, 05:53 PM
Great post. Only thing I'd like to mention for consideration is the revive rule. Perhaps it would also be fitting to guard break and/or throw the resuscitating player, if you wanted to duel them after dispatching their teammate. That way, your last victim is still revivable, yet you're not at disadvantage, nor dishonorable.

RoosterIlluzion
02-13-2017, 06:04 PM
I agree. If I see a teammate in a duel, I'll let them have it out. If my teammate loses and is about to be executed, I'll try to stop it and hopefully defeat him in order to revive my teammate. I try to follow a code of honor regarding double, triple, quadruple-teaming an opponent... I'll only do it if you do it first.

Johnsom9
02-13-2017, 09:06 PM
1-4 prevent 5 or 6. I'll pass on the lobotomy, thanks.

Greengrunt
02-13-2017, 09:43 PM
I dont feel like my favorite class excels or is balanced around just doing 1v1 so therefore I wont play that way, I will play to what I believe is my favorite class's strength, which is teamplay, fighting while outnumbered, and getting big hits on people being distracted. I don't play an assasin which basically levels faster and even says the class is designed for doing 1v1. I play raider which me and many others feel is very weak in just doing 1v1s all day every day, same probably goes for other slow characters like shugoki, conqueror, possibly lawbringer? not sure.


4v4 and 2v2 game modes are for just that, 4v4 doesnt always = 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1 and 2v2 not always 1v1v1v1. If you cant accept the fact that people will play the game however THEY want, and not however YOU want, pls just go play 1v1 duel or just dont cry about it, im sick of being constantly berated for running around and/or ganging up on people in 4v4 deathmatch, just PLEASE stfu, im not breaking any ubisoft policies here, and my concept of honor isnt the same as yours because 4v4 in any way you play it = honorable. 4v3 however I wouldnt consider honorable, good thing there are no 4v3 game modes right? I also NEVER teabag or initiate trashtalk on people. One thing I don't understand is these players playing by the 1v1 "code of honor" and yet they are the ones teabagging, trashtalking, complaining about my playstyle, insulting me on the forums, for people preaching about honor you guys seem to have very little of it yourself (not all of you, I really liked the main post here). I may gank but i dont actually disrespect people in-game, the most I do is a victory cheer and keep my silence.

heres what I like to do in 4v4 deathmatch because im a raider and I love it, I run from the initial fight and get 1-2 powerups, I then proceed to 2 shot (cuz raider hits very hard and slow) from behind some poor assassin focusing on my team ate and execute them, the dead player and the player chasing me then proceed to trash talk my playstyle and start whining.

Next round I get ganged up on 1v2 lets say, well NP im a vanguard and I can keep my guard up and have decent HP, just need to use revenge on their incoming attack soon.... bam hes knocked down and out of stamina from revenge, time to wind up this massive unblockable aoe attack also uninterupable from revenge doing 50-70% of any nearby enemies's health, cya later nerds, start running. So after reading this you might understand why a raider main loving the raider to death would ever want to trap himself into just doing 1v1s all DAY EVERY DAY?????

LordKaterchen
02-13-2017, 10:16 PM
@dariothebest97:
Welcome aboard

@RoosterIlluzion:
I don't know if you can actually Guardbreak someone out of an execution animation. Probably yes. I always go for a light strike if I merely want to interrupt.

@Johnsom9:
If you deem being halfway nice and decent to others (rules 1-4) as a lobotomy I guess there is nothing more for us to discuss. Nevertheless enjoy the game :)

@Greengrunt:
I play Kensei so I am not exactly the strongest duel class in the game either.

And as for your complaint about people who insist others to play by their code of honor, while not even adhering to common decency in treating others. Yes I have no understanding for those either.

None at all.

Thank god you mentioned to have liked tha main post. For most of your text I was assuming that you were talking to me! Sadly there is quite a few people who didn't even read the original post and just assume this to be another code of honor to be enforced onto them ^.^ I try to be patient when correcting them.

Greengrunt
02-13-2017, 10:21 PM
nah your post seems very neutral and i got no problems with people wanting to play that way, you have my respect.
but I just wanted to mention the reasons I personally wouldn't want to adhere to your code thats all

kensei still much faster than the raider it feels like but your right, sitll not the best 1v1 dueler, that probably goes to the assasins, especially PK and orochi, even the warden can be so fast you could argue her to be an assasin, lol

forrest0755
02-14-2017, 01:23 AM
I have no problem with people wanting to play a specific way. My problem is with the people who expect to play their way. If you want to adhere to strict rules, you are better off making a private match, because a lot of people wont want to play that way. The only way to ensure your rules are followed is to specifically seek out others who also want to play that way. I prefer the dyanmic of team play and teaming up on other people.

ekahn6
02-14-2017, 02:54 AM
I like the idea of the code and I support you and others doing it but I have one issue with it. My issue is this: I enjoy fighting 1v2s as the 1. I really like the challenge of taking on 2 opponents because it's so different than fighting 1v1. So I like doing brawls because I can enjoy my duel but if my ally goes down I have a chance to try my hand at taking on two opponents and really testing my abilities. So that is why I would be annoyed at someone for following the code, because I would want them to attack me.

So is there a way we could identify to you that we want you to join into a fight against us?

Ceremonsen
02-14-2017, 05:19 AM
In this matter it would be nice to have a choice to perform along with Execution, for instance, Greetings, Challenge, and such.

In Way of the Samurai 4 when the Hero kills an opponent and there are another warriors or civilians around, they freeze, contemplating a dead body for several sec, some fold their hands together and pray. It was kind of unexpected and really impressed me, and in my opinion adds a lots to the game atmosphere.

Of course, we are in war in The Honor and there's just a tiny room for such emotion, but still it would be nice to have such option at least to suit the gamers who prefer to play DCoH style or similar.

Maximus-3-
02-14-2017, 08:23 AM
I was playing last man stand mode. I can clearly see this rules need to be part of the game. I know i am just a beginner when it comes to my skill in this game. But when all get good i am sure if u have 3 vs 1 is a sure win. I was thinking is there a chance the game developer can add someting ingame where u sign up to pledge this rules. I think this will get the game more fun and honorable. If not i am afraid the game will die out faster. But i will wait a bit and play the game befor i stand 100% on this.

QueensDescent
02-14-2017, 10:40 AM
To be honest, I feel that the people with this "honor" standard is the most toxic people i've ever met. You say that you should not impose this to others or feel a false moral superiority, but honestly the kind of players that follow this kind of patterns tends to be people that it's unable to adapt to the opponent playstile.
In my first match ever, I fought a guy who said "no honor go kill yourself". Fun fact, he was trying to throw me off a ledge, i teched the throw and he felt down lel. Next fight i stomped him and ended my game grabbing him into a Wall and executing him, to which he said "Omg you can't win a fight without throwing". At this point I was actually getting quite mad and in the next round i just defended against him and throw a hit or two. Perfected the guy without grabing him once. Still he said "**** you no honor and left".

That's one of the most annoying cases i've met, but I really feel that honor people tend to be more toxic, but as I said, i feel that most people adhere to this cause they're damn unable to tech a grab and stop falling of a ledge. If you are getting pwnded by grabs, step up your damn game and learn to tech. I'm pretty sure that this isn't your case, you seem like a cool guy and I respect your way of playing, but to most people it feels like a random excuse to not accept that they got their asses handed.

And in the personal, I feel disrespected when someone autohandicaps when fighting me. I like to fight opponents who are trying to beat me with all they got.

CrusadingNoble
02-14-2017, 12:34 PM
I am not going to read that wall of text with formatting taken out from a toddler's colouring book. I would only agree wtih perhaps saluting one in a 1v1 duel and the "good fight" bit at the end. I do not mind a silent duel. I do not mind being schooled time and time agaoin and will vote for a rematch many times even if i get stomped, because I want to learn and improve.

If i get crushed or my opponent gets crushed insanely fast in a 2v2 I think it's fair game to go and 2v1 someone. If it's in the game, it's fine to use it. There are no rules in war. Don't bring up chivalry as that was mainly a way to extract ransom from capturing nobles/knights on the battlefield. Any form of chivalry in this game is a inherent disadvantage. Forfeiting feat use? Why should I intentionally gimp myself out of a part of the game? Only to see an Orochi snipe me with a bow or someone drops a suicide flaming rock on my team?

Just play the game. If you want to ROLEPLAY with a group of pre-selceted friends, sure. But don't ever expect this to be anything more than wishful thinking out in the wild, hectic MP scene.

LordKaterchen
02-14-2017, 01:29 PM
@forrest0755:
But that is just the point. I do not need my opponents to follow the same rules ^.^ I am not demanding anything.

@ekahn6:
Hmmm, that is a good question. Apart from literally telling your opponents by chat I would know no way. All ingame actions and emoter are not nearly specific enough.

@Cermonsen:
I would actually like that. Being able to give an execution a spin that expresses something.

@KingEagl3:
I am sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. I don't think there should be any mechanics in announcing or enforcing those rules. Or if so, it should actually be another game mode. I draw my joy from following the code by my own volition, rather than being forced to do it. That would not be a code to begin with it would just be a different game mechanic.

@Queensdescent:
I actually have to agree with you on this. I far more often see the misused 'honor' as a device to justify ones own loss or diminish your opponents victory and I also have seen quite a lot of flaming based on it. Even against me, funnily enough. I guess my code of honor is not honorful enough to ensure my opponent's victory xD

But that is also why I distance myself so strongly from people who do that.

As for the disrespect. You are not the only one mentioning that they might want their opponents to go all out of them, including outnumbering even. You have point there. I will think about how to accomodate for that as I have no simple solution right up.

@satorbg:
I haven't read beyond your first line. I don't feel the need to properly respond to someone who deliberately doesn't read what I write to begin with ^.^ Enjoy the game.

pYx.alfomatico
02-14-2017, 11:21 PM
I find it refreshing to see, that I'm gladly not the only one following a code of honor. Though I didn't know about this thread, I nearly followed everything from the very beginning. Nothing feels/is more honorable than having a good fight, and by a good fight I mean a fight in which you feel like you have accomplished something and made a step towards being better. Also the empathy was important to me. When fighting >1v1 modes (except dominion, because this is casual for me, nothing competitive). I always waited for my opponent(s) to finish.

I even like to do one more thing:
I played other fighting / Beat'em-Up games like Ultra Street Fighter 4 (USF4), BlazBlue, GUILTY GEAR Xrd and so on. When I experienced and adapted this kind of behavior I try to do the same to everyone (if the situation allows it). I mean by that that it is like in a dojo with a sensei teaching, forming and improving you. Or at least trying his best to do so.
When I face opponents, who are defeated way too fast and/or easy, I try to help them by either telling them what they should do first (you gotta start somewhere at least) or if I get the impression they lack some mechanics/techs, I explain it to them (like GB-counter or the - what I like to call it - "Toss Parry / Better parry" (when parrying and right clicking on the moment the red attack marker is blinking)). Provided they allow me to do so of course.
It felt nice, because I helped about 5-6 people already that way. I even managed to get them to win 1 game (they were actually good, but just lacked the mechanics/techs).

So far,

Your honorable,

alfomatico91


edit:

In case someone gets the funny idea/impression that I am a god or something similar in For Honor: I am absolutely not. But thanks to the fighting games I mentioned above I got pretty quick than without.

OLEGSANDER
02-15-2017, 02:33 AM
Be careful guys, this is a huge lobby-driven conspiracy. These guys DO NOT WANT you to git gud
They will try everything possible to prevent you from practicing the art of fighting.
They will say that you shouldn't train to fight 1v2, nor 2v1, so that when the real situation happens, you won't be able to deal with it.
Everyone in this game follows the "play to win" philosophy, and forcing people into a code of honor like this is only a part of said philosophy.
Do not get fooled. Think for yourself.

Zeolite XIII
02-15-2017, 04:33 AM
Look if thats how you want to play and you want to organize around it please do it off the official forums. The fact that this thread exist influences and supports players to not follow the rules of the game and the match. If you want to play like this keep those actions to the duel playlist only. I'm sick and tired of seeing 4v4 dominion matches go belly up because of someone else's confused sense of honor. We all play this game to win, other people shouldn't suffer because you have an unrealistic expectation of altruistic 1v1 fights while playing 4v4 playlist. That's not fair to others.

Ceremonsen
02-15-2017, 09:17 AM
I would actually like that. Being able to give an execution a spin that expresses something.
Moreover, it's not hard to implement. It's all about several additional simple animations which do not interfere with the current ingame balance.

BobTheWizzard
02-15-2017, 10:00 AM
First 4 points are okay. Those are common sense. Other 2 are not. I will do everything I can to secure the victory, no matter what. If I see someone from my team doing this, I will act disrespectful towards him, because his egoism, costs me victory. Wanna act honorable by playing as characters who rape, kill, steal, raid etc? Go ahead, but make it so others won't suffer. Make a steam group where you all will play together or something. The game has rules, those rules do not forbid going 2-4v1, they even consider it, seeing how there is an ability to block attacks from other people.

CrusadingNoble
02-15-2017, 10:42 AM
Look if thats how you want to play and you want to organize around it please do it off the official forums. The fact that this thread exist influences and supports players to not follow the rules of the game and the match. If you want to play like this keep those actions to the duel playlist only. I'm sick and tired of seeing 4v4 dominion matches go belly up because of someone else's confused sense of honor. We all play this game to win, other people shouldn't suffer because you have an unrealistic expectation of altruistic 1v1 fights while playing 4v4 playlist. That's not fair to others.

The main problem is that this thread is stickied on the general forum. People are used to dev threads being stickied up top on the central forum hub of a game - things like patch notes, release dates, known bugs lists and so on.

This is the equivalent of stickying someone's 50 page fanfiction of how Ned Stark actually survived his execution and became the transgender queen of Westeros on the official GRRM/ASOIAF forums (if there were any) and new readers come on and it's the first thing they see. "What, really? Wow, i guess I must have been reading the books wrong".

On the note of 2v2 ganking - last night I played with a newly made friend (orochi main). We got a couple vs us who were more or less our equals and we didn't gank each other. We just sort of had a silent understanding about it. But is this the norm? Hell no. Best way to see it's not even encouraged by the devs: the bots gank you in 2v2. Sometimes they even run like maniacs right from the start of the match to 2v1 someone.

If/when this game gets competitive I expect such cheesy 2v1 rushes to become a thing depending on the enemy class composition. It's like proxy rushing in an RTS game - occasionally it will give you a huge lead or easy win if it catches the opponent off guards.

As to the OP: fair point. I will read everything you wrote and address it accordingly:



he actual rules are non optional.


On the contrary, the whole concept is entirely optional. I might wish to employ your code only in 1v1. I might only wish to use the salutes/good fight. You cannot presume any ownership on this "code" thing or any means of imposing your will on how people use it.



While this DCoH is meant for all game modes including dominion, it is not meant for actual ranked play. To be more precise. As long as unranked and ranked are not seperated I will still apply the code. If unranked and ranked get seperated I would only apply it to unranked play. In ranked play I would still adhere to the first four rules, but I would leave out the Rule of Numbers and the Rule of Courage as well as mostly not applying any of the handicapping gestures or respect.

I'm glad you added this after 100 pages of feedback from the player base. But remember that people enjoy winning just as much as they enjoy ranking up. Going into an unranked mode doesn't mean I want to play with Gimpy the Gimpdin on my side who doesn't use half of the ingame features to actually win the bloody fight!




Disclaimer: I deem all rules of the DCoH to be MANDATORY. Mandatory means that if you do not adhere to them, you are not playing by the DCoH. And that is not a judgement. You might be playing by your own code of honor or no code at all - either of which is totally fine! But the goal of this post is to describe and define one particular code of honor to be easy distinguishable from ofthers. And the rules are the very core essence of it.



This stuff again. Who died and made you King?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0



The rule of Respect:
You do not ever act disrespectful towards your opponent. While enjoying ones victory is fine, any kind of demeaning behavior or taunting (similar to tea bagging or other abuse of the fallen opponent by use of emotes or otherwise) is forbidden.
This is nice to have, of course you can't expect the 13 year old Xboxers to not behave like such.



The rule of Calm:
Also in chat/voice-chat you do not ever flame or personally attack any other players in the game, even if they don’t do you the same courtesy. It also doesn’t matter if they start it and come at you aggressively. At worst inform them that you prefer to cease communication and put them on mute.
Wise, but also hard to do. Because we are emotional beings and in any form of competitive enviromnemt we will get tilted, especially if we perceive to have been wronged either by our opponent or by "ill luck" even. Imagine you wrecking someone 2 times in a row in a duel and in the third match he wins by a hair's brath and starts taunting you. How many times can you endure it before you retort? If it's your first duel of the day - sure. What if it's your 25th duel and you've been on an 8 duel losing streak? And then you beat him in match 4? Sometimes it feels good to give them a taste of their own medicine. Although I do see where you're coming from I don't think that ANYONE would follow this at 100% of the time, unless they were recording/streaming and would wish to seem so mannered and above things.



The rule of Numbers:
You do not ever actively fight with an advantage in numbers. Even if you already were in a fight, where the numbers were even. If another ally joins the fray or an opponent falls, giving you the advantage in numbers, you cease attacking and attempt to disengage, passively defending yourself as necessary should your opponent deny your disengage. You can and should support allies who are outnumbered though with full force and even if you are not supposed to interrupt other duels, you are well within your right to interrupt enemy executions. The fight has ended the moment your ally cannot fight back anymore.

I disagree for anything above 2v2 brawl. And for ranked 2v2 brawl I don't ever want to see this.



The rule of Courage:
While repositioning and using the battlefield to your advantage is very much allowed, actively disengaging from an existing fight for the sole purpose of regeneration is considered forbidden.
[/LIST][/SIZE]
This is absurd, there are feats and map mechanics specifically meant to regen health. Running away to heal instead of suiciding on someone's pike so you can wait for an extended death timer is absolutely gimping yourself and your team. If you don't want health regen go in 1v1 duels.



Pointing at a chosen opponent who is already aware of you or saluting them before engaging is considered a gesture of respect.


Duelist’s Praise:
No matter if you beat your opponent or your opponent beats you. If the fight was a close one and you enjoyed it or deem your opponent worthy of praise for his skill, you should proclaim it was a ‘Good Fight!’ or even provide a simple ‘Wow!’ from the in-game communication menu as a gesture of respect. Just be careful to only use it, when appropriate, otherwise it can very well be understood as sarcastic taunting.

I like both, but I could do without them. The behaviour of the person after he has defeated me in a duel will almost always irritate me, regardless of what they have done. The UTMOST gesture of respect is for them to accept a rematch. It doesn't matter if they teabag me, spam emotes or drop to the ground, I'm already irritaded - mainly at myself for not playing properly.



Forfeit Initiative:
A battlefield is hectic and an opponent might not always see you coming. This is especially true if you are using some of the assassin class feats which help you hide your presence. Making your presence known to your opponent and giving him the time to prepare for the upcoming fight is considered a gesture of respect.

No I disagree. positioning is key in the larger melees, as is awareness. Yesterday I had a duel vs a Peacekeeper. The only time she beat me was in a map with 4 large pillars in the middle. She hid about and stabbed me, then ran away. I think it was a perfect way to play an assassin and it taught me how to guard against such behaviour in the future. You don't go and wait like a mule while the polearm wielding maniac gets into the perfect position to bash your 3 health bar head in. There is a reason why the different classes have different walking speed and varying amounts of gap closers.




Forfeit Feats:
You can choose not to use a feat that would give you a considerable advantage over your opponent in a given fight situation as a gesture of respect.[/QUOTE]
You can choose to save said feat to just gib a more dangerous enemy. Otherwise - no.




Forfeit Environmental Insta-Kills:
You can choose not to explicitly aim or even avoid pushing someone down a ledge or into spikes for a quick kill as a gesture of respect. Again some classes are far better at this than others (Raider, Lawbringer for example), so for those this would mean an even bigger sacrifice.[/COLOR]

I personally would view this as a gesture of disrespect. As if you're saying "look, I'm so much better than you i don't even need to punish your mistakes by throwing you off the cliff". I would perceive it as arrogance and I would immediately try to punish you in return. Throw people off cliffs. This is the best way to make them lEARN how to avoid/counter it. I would have never learned this unless I got mauled by my orochi friend time and again on the narrow bridge and we then started talking and practicing. Also, you might as well not play a good grappler class if you're not going to use their main advantages in battle.



Forfeit Execution:
If you consider your opponent to have fought so well, that you want to give him the chance to stand up again or just in general spare their life, you can forfeit an Execution as a gesture of respect.[/COLOR]

This is not The Sims. You do NOT let enemies recuperate. This is actiavely working against your team. I would HATE having such a player on my team. This is a FIGHTING GAME, the objective is to kill the enemies as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Yes, evein in unranked. Now you're going into territory that will actually get people on your team tilted. It's like passive-aggressive toxicity and I view it as the equivalent of doing "Solo mid or feed" on a moba and just running face first into the enemy team and toweres, feeding them kills. This honour stuff is all good but don't actively work to hinder your team and help the enemies! You like an enemy so much? Message them, add them, play 1v1 duels. Don't ruin the match for the others who are trying to win by becoming besties right in the middle of the breaking phase.



Allow Regeneration:
Beginning a fight against an opponent you might find yourself at a hitpoint advantage. If regeneration is close by, instead of suppressing it, you could allow your opponent to reg back to full health instead before engaging as a gesture of respect.
It seems to me like what you want is an endless match of 1v1 duels. This needlessly protracts the game and exposes your team to further risk of loss.



Allow Revive:
If you are utterly fearless or just want to fight one opponent again immediately or even aim for a 1v2, you can choose not to interrupt a revive as a gesture of respect.
[/LIST][/SIZE]
If you are utterly full of it and you have a superiority complex, then sure. I hope you get butchered in that 1v2




Clarification on in-fight behavior

You might notice that the only rules to impact the actual gameplay are the Rule of Numbers and the Rule of Courage.
While there are a lot of possible gestures of respect potentially seriously handicapping yourself even further and diminishing your performance, I consider none of them to be inherently necessary or the lack of using them to break the code.

I view using them at any time to be daft and against the spirit of a competitive online game. You are either intentionally gimping yourself and your team, or you are so smug and sure of your abilities that you beleive that even giving a significant advantage to your enemies will still not result in a loss. At the very least, most of these prolong the match which is annoying and pointless. For people with limited time to play, being stuck in a team with Sir Doesn'tExecute, Lord GoandRegenhealth and BaronNeverhelps will be frustrating as all hell.



One is class balance, where some classes would have a tremendous advantage over others when using the full extent of the gestures of respect.
The other one is that the Honor part of the DCoH refers to the perceived honor as a player rather than any kind of ‘roleplaying your character’ -honor as derived from fantasy or history. Although it is nice of course should they coincide for you.

But if your character has class-mechanics that could be considered dishonorable from a roleplaying perspective (traps for example), feel free to use them even while adhering to the DCoH, because from a player perspective they are just a different mechanic. The same goes for the use of terrain, poison, bleeding or draining your opponents stamina.

Players learn and overcome. And by doing this babying and handholding you are depriving them of earning a hard won fight. I play warden mostly for now. If a Nobushi didn't use her range and poison it would be much easier for me, but I wouldn't get the awesome feeling of having overcome a disadvantageous situation through my own skill and cunning. I would wail on her with heavies untill she dies and I would think "I guess this guy is new" Classes having advantages over other classes is good and winning as the disadvantaged class feels great.




The primary reason regarding the first four rules is atmosphere of the game. And again, I am not talking about atmosphere in a roleplaying sense but rather the atmosphere as a competitive environment of a game.
For me personally toxicity in competitive games has been a major diminishing factor to my enjoyment of any game, where I participated in the community, even if I could power through it. For Honor by it’s very design with it’s presentation, the emotes and the executions is already aimed at a personal feeling of pride and skill. It provides an intense impact to both your victories and your losses. Emotions will run high in such an environment, even if people want to be nice about it initially. Frustration and Anger are quick to be relieved onto other players.
The overall goal of the rules is to diminish some of these already unpreventable unpleasant effects by abstaining from any kind of provocation and by avoiding two types of situations, that tend to push people over the edge. One of which is being ganged up upon, the other one is having an enemy escape when you feel like you had won the engagement and having your kill denied.

You presume too much. Have you any statistical, scientific data on what tilts players the most? For me it's neither of those two things. Being ganged upon is normal, and it's either the result of your own poor awareness and placement or the enemy team is losing their advantage on other fronts to focus on you. if you manage to stall them or escape with your life by using revenge and running away it's actually a way to create space for your team and turn their focusing of 3 players on you into a mistake. I agree that toxicity is bad but the only way to remove it to remove chatting with the enemy team and emote spamming.


The other reason is a heightened sense of challenge and accomplishment. You will find yourself in situations where you have to face multiple opponents more oft than not and personally I enjoy that a lot. Ganging up on someone gives me a rather hollow feeling of victory, but this is really personal preference.

Thank you for sharing this intimate information with us. Tell us about your childhood.


But I will also usher a warning to everyone trying the DCoH. If you are not immune to frustration yourself, … getting flamed by your team, taunted by the opposing team ganging up on you, not getting a single kill before you lose the game and your opponents proclaiming how easy their win was because you are so stupid … might be taxing to some.

You might get flamed at higher ranks if you are 0 in 6, i personally haven't been flamed yet. You will surely get flamed if someone sees you actiavely hindering the team though.



At the same time seeing an opponent approach an already running duel that you are in and then realizing that he stopped and waits for you to finish, rather than hack you in the back, feels really nice.
It sure does in a 2v2 brawl but I don't expect it and I would accept a gank. It would feel weird and immersion breaking in the 4v4 melees.

You continue to apologize time and again about how you will be intentionally gimping the team because this is the way you enjoy playing the game. I only hope ranked modes come faster so I don't have to deal with someone not instantly killing an opponent or not executing them because he is sir Palador the Galliant and this is how he enjoys playing the game (ie. he enjoys losing)

LordKaterchen
02-15-2017, 11:15 AM
@OLEGSANDER:
Actually I do not say any of the things you mentioned. I can only advise you to read the actual first post before replying to what you assume it is going to be :)

@ZEO-XIII:
Calling for a delete might be bit much, don't you think? Even if you disagree I am hardly breaking any forum rules.
Also I think you are far overestimating the number of players who follow a play-to-win philosophy in For Honor. While I cannot call the poll representative seeing as there is somewhat above 200 votes for a few hundred thousand or even millions of players it is interesting to notice that the percentages for each response have barely fluctuated since about 40 votes in. Including the positive responses to this thread I think your claim that 'we all play to win' might be somewhat of an exaggeration based on projecting your own values on others.

@Ceremonsen:
Agreed :)

@kressnik:
I understand the frustration but as I mentioned in the thread. My matchmaking rating will actually account for that self-imposed handicap in the long run, so I will still bring my team pretty much exactly the win chance which I was matched for.

@satorbg:
Since your post is so detailed I will address it in it's own response. Might take a while though, I am only in the forums for a few minutes. Thank you for taking the time to read for now anyway.

LordKaterchen
02-15-2017, 12:07 PM
The main problem is that this thread is stickied on the general forum. People are used to dev threads being stickied up top on the central forum hub of a game - things like patch notes, release dates, known bugs lists and so on.

This is the equivalent of stickying someone's 50 page fanfiction of how Ned Stark actually survived his execution and became the transgender queen of Westeros on the official GRRM/ASOIAF forums (if there were any) and new readers come on and it's the first thing they see. "What, really? Wow, i guess I must have been reading the books wrong".


I will try to overgo the polemic nature of most of your response and reply to the actually contained arguments. You do seem to take something not deliberately directed at you rather personal though :)
Having this as a sticky is not exactly something I would call a problem. If you look at the subforums there is also some other posts from players stickied. G



On the note of 2v2 ganking - last night I played with a newly made friend (orochi main). We got a couple vs us who were more or less our equals and we didn't gank each other. We just sort of had a silent understanding about it. But is this the norm? Hell no. Best way to see it's not even encouraged by the devs: the bots gank you in 2v2. Sometimes they even run like maniacs right from the start of the match to 2v1 someone.


I do not even want it as a 'norm' :) You are assuming an Intention I do not have.



If/when this game gets competitive I expect such cheesy 2v1 rushes to become a thing depending on the enemy class composition. It's like proxy rushing in an RTS game - occasionally it will give you a huge lead or easy win if it catches the opponent off guards.


So do I. In ranked play I would even employ them :) Been playing starcraft 2 for a while competitively



As to the OP: fair point. I will read everything you wrote and address it accordingly:

On the contrary, the whole concept is entirely optional. I might wish to employ your code only in 1v1. I might only wish to use the salutes/good fight. You cannot presume any ownership on this "code" thing or any means of imposing your will on how people use it.


Of course I can claim ownership of this code. It is literally an arbirtrary mental construct that I created and gave a name to. If you created somewthing from your own volition and gave a name to it, it would also be yours.
What I cannot do is to demand or expect anyone else to follow this. And I DO NOT do that :) As stated multiple times. I am not imposing my will on anyone. I am offering this as a possibility that people can embrace and use for their own purpose or go against completely with no judgement on my side.




I'm glad you added this after 100 pages of feedback from the player base. But remember that people enjoy winning just as much as they enjoy ranking up. Going into an unranked mode doesn't mean I want to play with Gimpy the Gimpdin on my side who doesn't use half of the ingame features to actually win the bloody fight!

It is only 10 pages and I added it after about 3 but as I said you seem prone to the polemic side of argumentation.
Also no offense, but it is not any responsibility of mine to play according to your wishes, just as it is not yours to play according to mine.



This stuff again. Who died and made you King?


Again it is my own definition :) I do not enforce this code on anyone, but I do have the right to explicitly define what I mean by this code and as such who I deem to be playing by it or not. Again it is an arbitrary but clear definition that does not claim to be the only one or the 'right one'. It is just one. My one if you want to call it that. As seen in the polls a lot of people who even do follow a code of honor have different ideas about it. And they are equally eligible as any other including play-to-win strategies .



This is nice to have, of course you can't expect the 13 year old Xboxers to not behave like such.


Thankfully I am not expecting anyone to do anything ^.^



Wise, but also hard to do. Because we are emotional beings and in any form of competitive enviromnemt we will get tilted, especially if we perceive to have been wronged either by our opponent or by "ill luck" even. Imagine you wrecking someone 2 times in a row in a duel and in the third match he wins by a hair's brath and starts taunting you. How many times can you endure it before you retort? If it's your first duel of the day - sure. What if it's your 25th duel and you've been on an 8 duel losing streak? And then you beat him in match 4? Sometimes it feels good to give them a taste of their own medicine. Although I do see where you're coming from I don't think that ANYONE would follow this at 100% of the time, unless they were recording/streaming and would wish to seem so mannered and above things.


You are absolutely right :)
It is really really hard. So far I have endured for an accumulated 50 game hours in For Honor and there were moments where I almost break my own self-imposed rules.
I implored the same behavioural rules in C&C Renegade for 2 years back then not slipping once. My clan kind of built a reputation around never flaming. It was remarkably nice.

Still I admit that it takes a lot of self control or ...tranquility.



I disagree for anything above 2v2 brawl. And for ranked 2v2 brawl I don't ever want to see this.


You are free to, as is anyone else :) Honestly I am already glad if anyone takes anything positive from any of the rules. I still appreciate people being nicer, even if the do not follow the DCoH to the letter. As I said a lot of negative responders just assume that I want to enforce something on them.

Which I can understand, seeing as there is a rather obnoxious toxic crowd in this community that HAS and is STILL trying to enforce something like this on others. But as I said a few times. I am just not one of them :)



This is absurd, there are feats and map mechanics specifically meant to regen health. Running away to heal instead of suiciding on someone's pike so you can wait for an extended death timer is absolutely gimping yourself and your team. If you don't want health regen go in 1v1 duels.


I never said I do not want health regen :) I said that I do not interrupt a running battle with an opponent to reg up.



I like both, but I could do without them. The behaviour of the person after he has defeated me in a duel will almost always irritate me, regardless of what they have done. The UTMOST gesture of respect is for them to accept a rematch. It doesn't matter if they teabag me, spam emotes or drop to the ground, I'm already irritaded - mainly at myself for not playing properly.


Hehehe yeah xD That is also the main thing that I get irritated about. Though I will admit that any kind of gloating or exp****ly taunting behavour from my opponent does make it feel worse.



No I disagree. positioning is key in the larger melees, as is awareness. Yesterday I had a duel vs a Peacekeeper. The only time she beat me was in a map with 4 large pillars in the middle. She hid about and stabbed me, then ran away. I think it was a perfect way to play an assassin and it taught me how to guard against such behaviour in the future. You don't go and wait like a mule while the polearm wielding maniac gets into the perfect position to bash your 3 health bar head in. There is a reason why the different classes have different walking speed and varying amounts of gap closers.

You can choose to save said feat to just gib a more dangerous enemy. Otherwise - no.

I personally would view this as a gesture of disrespect. As if you're saying "look, I'm so much better than you i don't even need to punish your mistakes by throwing you off the cliff". I would perceive it as arrogance and I would immediately try to punish you in return. Throw people off cliffs. This is the best way to make them lEARN how to avoid/counter it. I would have never learned this unless I got mauled by my orochi friend time and again on the narrow bridge and we then started talking and practicing. Also, you might as well not play a good grappler class if you're not going to use their main advantages in battle.

This is not The Sims. You do NOT let enemies recuperate. This is actiavely working against your team. I would HATE having such a player on my team. This is a FIGHTING GAME, the objective is to kill the enemies as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Yes, evein in unranked. Now you're going into territory that will actually get people on your team tilted. It's like passive-aggressive toxicity and I view it as the equivalent of doing "Solo mid or feed" on a moba and just running face first into the enemy team and toweres, feeding them kills. This honour stuff is all good but don't actively work to hinder your team and help the enemies! You like an enemy so much? Message them, add them, play 1v1 duels. Don't ruin the match for the others who are trying to win by becoming besties right in the middle of the breaking phase.

It seems to me like what you want is an endless match of 1v1 duels. This needlessly protracts the game and exposes your team to further risk of loss.


You are absolutely right with most of arguments here :)
As mentioned the gestures are all arbitrary handicaps of different severity to be applied as much or as little as you want. I tend to go for most of them particularly if I deem an opponent to behave decently enough. But I also don't apply them all the time. That is why I mentioned in the disclaimer for them to be optional and situational. If you want you can call them exaggerated gestures of respect.
And no, in a breaking phase I would probably not apply any of them unless my opponent does so as well :)



If you are utterly full of it and you have a superiority complex, then sure. I hope you get butchered in that 1v2


I actually enjoy most of my 1v2's and I would not call it a superiority complex. It would be that if I expected to win most of those. Which I neither expect nor do :)



I view using them at any time to be daft and against the spirit of a competitive online game. You are either intentionally gimping yourself and your team, or you are so smug and sure of your abilities that you beleive that even giving a significant advantage to your enemies will still not result in a loss. At the very least, most of these prolong the match which is annoying and pointless. For people with limited time to play, being stuck in a team with Sir Doesn'tExecute, Lord GoandRegenhealth and BaronNeverhelps will be frustrating as all hell.


I am intentionally handicapping myself for the sake of heightened enjoyment partly due to the challenge involved partly due to an almost roleplaying aspect to it, so far you are right.

Still, I do understand your mentioned frustration and the apology I ushered for it is a serious one.



Players learn and overcome. And by doing this babying and handholding you are depriving them of earning a hard won fight. I play warden mostly for now. If a Nobushi didn't use her range and poison it would be much easier for me, but I wouldn't get the awesome feeling of having overcome a disadvantageous situation through my own skill and cunning. I would wail on her with heavies untill she dies and I would think "I guess this guy is new" Classes having advantages over other classes is good and winning as the disadvantaged class feels great.


If I am not strong enough to give my opponent a hard won fight with my selfimposed handycap, someone else will :)
I neither expect nor would I want every single player to follow this code. I actually like the mix of flavors in playstyle in the community. Also unless you are literally the best player in For Honor you will easily find a challenge in the Matchmaking in the long run. I am not hampering anyone's advancement in the game, I am just providing a lower actual playstrength than I could, but I do so consistently. That means that I am matched for it accordingly.



You presume too much. Have you any statistical, scientific data on what tilts players the most? For me it's neither of those two things. Being ganged upon is normal, and it's either the result of your own poor awareness and placement or the enemy team is losing their advantage on other fronts to focus on you. if you manage to stall them or escape with your life by using revenge and running away it's actually a way to create space for your team and turn their focusing of 3 players on you into a mistake. I agree that toxicity is bad but the only way to remove it to remove chatting with the enemy team and emote spamming.


No, I do not have any statistical scientific data. I don't think anyone has :) I am talking from my very limited point of view and own experience. I should have emphasized that fact though, so ... my aplogies.
And as for the toxicity. I know a lot of games went this way because the problem just got out of hand. I am not sure it is the only way to diminish the nastiness somewhat but so far it is the only proven way, albeit a somewhat drastic one.



Thank you for sharing this intimate information with us. Tell us about your childhood.


Still don't know why you make this personal, but suit yourself ^.^ Thankfully you bring up enough decent points outside of that to justify a response nevertheless.



You might get flamed at higher ranks if you are 0 in 6, i personally haven't been flamed yet. You will surely get flamed if someone sees you actiavely hindering the team though.


That is a possibility though funnily enough it hasn't happened yet through all of alpha and beta play :)
Still, seeing as blaming your teammates in a team game is the easiest way to diminish your own feeling of failure I expect to be flamed at some point (when players expectations about their winrates rise with their skill) mostly regardless of whether I actually made an error or not. The Moba communities are excellent examples of this happening on a regular basis.



It sure does in a 2v2 brawl but I don't expect it and I would accept a gank. It would feel weird and immersion breaking in the 4v4 melees.


I don't expect it either. And there is not lack of acceptance on my side. I also don't feel it to be immersion breaking I tend to feel like it's a nice temporary change of pace.



You continue to apologize time and again about how you will be intentionally gimping the team because this is the way you enjoy playing the game. I only hope ranked modes come faster so I don't have to deal with someone not instantly killing an opponent or not executing them because he is sir Palador the Galliant and this is how he enjoys playing the game (ie. he enjoys losing)

Ahahaha xD I actually like some of the nicknames that you apply. While not exactly flattering, some of them are funny.
Although despite your gross oversimplification of me and my intentions I do not enjoy losing :) I still try to win, I just don't do it with all and every tool at my disposal.

I know what it means to play-to-win and I have done so in multiple other games in the past. In this one I choose not to, unless I decide to sometime delve into ranked with a serious competitive spirit. And even then I would still refrain from using pschological warfare (i.e. flaming taunting to imbalance your opponent.)

CptnFlags
02-15-2017, 12:31 PM
5+ points to those who wrote that code...but aint no one gonna follow it. I mean i completely agree and all but people are going to continue to do what they do in every game. GANK.

LordKaterchen
02-15-2017, 12:36 PM
@pYx.alfomatico:
Hah, almost missed your post because it was the last on the page before!
And you are not the only one to be glad about finding someone else with a similar interpretation :)

My only noteworthy background in fighting games was being on a decent level in the soul calibur games. But It gave me profound understanding of, mixups, wake-up play, spacing, frame-data, combos etc. You know the whole terminology and what's actually behind it. And Yes I imagine with an actual background in fighting games (especially those with a difficult execution) you'd do impressively on cancel-heavy class like the berserker :)

I also had someone ask me to actually go for some dules to train them recently. Was a nice experience.

Hope to see you in game some time :)

@CptnFlags:
I wrote that code so thank you very much for the +5 I guess xD
Somewhat of a pessimistic outlook. The polls are nice and I already met a decent amount of players following this or similar codes :)
Also I don't mind the ganking.

CrusadingNoble
02-15-2017, 01:01 PM
My post was intended to be filled with some humorous jabs but because I am loathe to overuse emoticons it might have come off as the rant of a sulking brat. You coming from the SC2 competitive scene gave me a clearer angle of what you want to achieve. Essentially a "WhiteRA" type of online manners when it's not grossly hampering your team (like throwing the game because you would not execute enemies etc.) I understand better now, especially since you admit that the ranking/ladder competitive mentality deos have its place and you would have it as well. It might be worth adding that you see the unranked modes as some sort of casual, laid back gaming mode that would be done mostly for recreational purposes. Kind of like CoOP in SC2, to let off the pressure of the ranked ladder grind.

In that case I would agree, though I myself would still not refrain from feat use or shoving people off ledges. That being said, I would love you to add me and teach me in 1v1 as I only played the open beta and am but a simple page in skill.

The fact that I bought a controller today and have to learn how to use it won't help my battle readyness much though.

LordKaterchen
02-15-2017, 01:30 PM
@satorbg:
The humorous jabs, while humorous, could have easily escalated this, if I wasn't so intent on temperance :)

Still I am very glad that in the end - judging by your latest response - you do understand my intention now. So I am happy to have put in the time into my response. Yes, WhiteRA is a good example for this.

And as long as there is only 'one' mixed game mode and ranked and unranked are not seperated I will play the game with a 'casual' mindset. Mind you I will still try to master the combat mechanics and play an enormous amount of time, but I will not do it for the only and single purpose of winning and ranking up. I might reconsider if explicit ranked modes get implemented.

Also ... abolishing a strict play-to-win philosophy can be somewhat of a relief. You talk of the pressure of the ranked ladder grind in SC2. While it is thrilling it has not always been enjoyable. Cutting yourself some slack in both matters of skill and winning can actually make you enjoy a game more..

And as someone not aiming for a pro-career, enjoyment is exactly the main motiviation I have in playing games ^.^

EDIT (totally slipped this one): As for your question regarding training. I surely wouldn't mind in general. But for the moment I am trying to get in as much playtime with my friends beside work and familiy as possible. Also I am at best slightly above average, you can find better players than me easily. If you are still interested in it in a few days drop me a note.

CrusadingNoble
02-15-2017, 02:36 PM
Aye, i know how limited time coudl be. Anyway, cartoonz seems to be adhering to the code:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLnt7ZF3XCA

JonYurBz
02-15-2017, 02:48 PM
Well after a day of release I can tell not many if any of the people I fought in duel or brawl adhered to ANY of this. Duel has turned into how many times can I throw spam until I push you off ledge. Fun. Brawl was much more honorable in beta but this is what happens when you release it to the masses. Cheese spam city.

CrusadingNoble
02-15-2017, 03:23 PM
Well after a day of release I can tell not many if any of the people I fought in duel or brawl adhered to ANY of this. Duel has turned into how many times can I throw spam until I push you off ledge. Fun. Brawl was much more honorable in beta but this is what happens when you release it to the masses. Cheese spam city.

How is throwing off the ledge cheese? It's litrerally a game mechanic meant to punish you if you get yourself parried/GBed near the edge.

JonYurBz
02-15-2017, 04:57 PM
How is throwing off the ledge cheese? It's litrerally a game mechanic meant to punish you if you get yourself parried/GBed near the edge.

I feel that way cause most of the duels I played ended that way. Trying to get better at gb counter but can't get timing down. Seems random atm. It seems that 80% players I played yesterday barely even swung a weapon and went straight for that. It's annoying sorry man. It was not like that in the alpha betas. The maps don't help either. It would be great to fight a duel with weapons instead of who is better at throwing people of ledges. Why even have weapons at this point! Just my thoughts.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-15-2017, 06:39 PM
Once the scrubs get bored and go back to CoD we will have a dueling system that is alot like Dark Souls I bet.


- Bowing

- Waiting for another 1 v 1 to finish before fighting the winner


People with actual respect and skill tend to be more mature when it comes to skill based PvP games like this.


Though Dominion will always be a cesspit of 3 v 1s and ganking. Its the nature of modes like that.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-15-2017, 11:26 PM
If you will bow in front of me, expect heavy blow to the head. And if you think i will wait in 2v2 until you finish your "duel" then you are mistaken.

Thanks for proving my point lol

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 12:47 AM
If you are not paying attention then you will be killed. Zanshin. Simple as that. You must be ready for everything and not bow during fight. That is beyond ******ed. You want to show me your skill? Then do this, cause bowing and waiting like moron is not a skill. It is stupidity. You know when you respect your opponent? When you are giving everything you got to kill him. Those things are you mention are things that disrespect your enemy.

Bowing and respecting the fights of others is disrespect? \


lol okay

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 12:55 AM
Yes. Cause that means you are not paying attention to your opponent and you are lacking in Zanshin(bowing), and that you belittle him(waiting). That's disrespect. But don't worry, whenever i see such disrespecting attitude I make sure to punish it:)

I am glad people like you are in the minority lol

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 12:57 AM
And i am glad you are majority :) it is more likely that i will find you and have easy win, so I can finish faster and meet challenging opponent:)

Whatever makes you feel better man lol

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 01:03 AM
Better? Yes i think it makes me feel better:) I won. You have not. We are fighting FOR honor that doesn't mean we should fight with honor. In entire history all codes(for knights samurais etc) dictated how they should live, not how they should fight. And they were ganking up, they were throwing people of the ledge and if they found moron that would actually bow in front of them they would kill him right away and moved on. Survival is key. That's all.

You won? lol its all opinion man. You think you are hot stuff for attacking people who are bowing and jumping people 2 v 1


I disagree and believe it takes a better player to play respectfully than recklessly.



We are on different sides. Agree to disagree.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 01:12 AM
What is reckless in playing smart? Your respectful way of fighting is reckless. And because it is reckless it is disrespectful. You are living in paradox.

BTW. Nope, if you die in 2v2 when i ganked your ***, I won, you have not. Even games says so with beautiful word "Victory" on my screen :D

This will be my last post because this is like arguing with a particularly dense wall.


What do opponents do before a professional Karate match? They bow.

What do professional boxers do before a fight? They touch gloves.

What do opponents do before and after Judo matches? They bow.

What do MMA fighters do before a match? They touch gloves.


In almost every single professional combat sport opponents show each other mutual respect by bowing, shaking hands, touching gloves, or even just a nod. A sign of respect and mutual sportsmanship between two competitors is NOT somehow disrespectful or wrong. You are completely and factually wrong on that point.


As far as your "I won you lost idc" attitude it just goes to prove my point that its mostly mature and skillful players that exhibit the behaviors I just listed.


Good talk kid.

Black_Star300
02-16-2017, 01:17 AM
This will be my last post because this is like arguing with a particularly dense wall.


What do opponents do before a professional Karate match? They bow.

What do professional boxers do before a fight? They touch gloves.

What do opponents do before and after Judo matches? They bow.

What do MMA fighters do before a match? They touch gloves.


In almost every single professional combat sport opponents show each other mutual respect by bowing, shaking hands, touching gloves, or even just a nod. A sign of respect and mutual sportsmanship between two competitors is NOT somehow disrespectful or wrong. You are completely and factually wrong on that point.


As far as your "I won you lost idc" attitude it just goes to prove my point that its mostly mature and skillful players that exhibit the behaviors I just listed.


Good talk kid.

Again I love seeing your posts because of how stupid you are. MMA? Um they are forced to do so because have you seen weigh-ins and they don't show respect there? They HAVE to touch gloves before the fight starts. Doesn't mean they show respect. *******.

Black_Star300
02-16-2017, 01:22 AM
I bolded key word in your "statement". SPORT. When attacked on the street will karateka and judoka bow? Will professional boxer or mma fighter try to touch fists? This "game" is about quite realistic battles. Fighting not having "sport match". You want to play it as sport? Go ahead make my day with easy win for me. I play it as game offer me to - in realistic way. I practice 600 years old ryu and when I hear this i want to laugh. The only courtesy you get is in dojo, on battlefield you should drop the act.

BTW. Kid? I got PHD from nuclear physics :D Unless you are 40 year old, calling me kid is a bit stupid :D

Watch out with that PHD because he will "claim" you have it as that is what he likes to spout on about are CLAIMS, CLAIMS, CLAIMS. Oh my gosh the claims....

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 01:23 AM
Again I love seeing your posts because of how stupid you are. MMA? Um they are forced to do so because have you seen weigh-ins and they don't show respect there? They HAVE to touch gloves before the fight starts. Doesn't mean they show respect. *******.



It shows how much you pay attention to MMA they are not FORCED to do anything. Its optional. I have seen DOZENS and DOZENS of fights where they refuse to touch gloves. And 90% of the weigh ins go off without a hitch because most of the fighters are friends.


But good job ignoring my overall point and instead trying focus on a single part. (And you even did that wrong) lol


I am flattered though you are getting so worked up by my posts and pay so much attention to me :)

Black_Star300
02-16-2017, 01:27 AM
I can solve some differential equations if he want :D Or solve Shrodinger equation. Time independant maybe?:P

nah cuz I'm sure he will CLAIM (his favorite word) that you looked em up or some ****.

LordKaterchen
02-16-2017, 01:46 AM
@JonYurBz:
Well, people do not have to follow this ^.^
Also I don't find ledge play inherently cheese, just a little bit boring as it tends to make risk-reward even worse for people who actually try offense instead of defense.
Still nothing inherently wrong with it

@SiewcaRaka and Black_Star300:
Forgive me for not intervening but I have given up any communication with CoyoteXStarrk a while ago.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 01:47 AM
Forgive me for not intervening but I have given up any communication with CoyoteXStarrk a while ago.


Oh look! holier than thou high horse is back!


How are ya mate?

Black_Star300
02-16-2017, 01:48 AM
Oh look! holier than thou high horse is back!


How are ya mate?

high horse? Why are you talking about yourself?

CoyoteXStarrk
02-16-2017, 01:53 AM
high horse? Why are you talking about yourself?

Did you just go 7th grade on me? lol


Wow.

GayForShugoki
02-16-2017, 05:05 AM
It’s either kill or be killed. I don’t care if someone was having a duel and I stumble by, they’re getting killed as they’re a threat and in my way. If you want to have a one on one fight, go play one on one. Amazing – I would have never thought of that. If you play Dominion and cry because you got ‘ganked’, you need to get over yourself as soon as possible.

Just because the game is called ‘For Honor’ doesn’t mean that you must be honourable in any duel or fight. That’s not what the honour in the game’s title means.

Anyone who moans about honour in this game gets a spear to the head. Honour won’t save you from a spicy loss coming your way. Heroes always lose in the end, so whatever.

Scaevus
02-16-2017, 09:40 AM
I won't waste my advantage which I fairly achieved to please YOU, I don't use cheats, I dont use bugs, do I play fairly? I think yes, so anybody's personal damn codes doesnt bother me, not I nor anybody should play by YOUR rules.

LordKaterchen
02-16-2017, 10:11 AM
@Postmodernweeb and Scaevus:
It is apparent, you are both making assumptions just based on the title instead of actually reading the thread.
I don't cry about anything, I accept all playstyles ^.^
And I neither demand nor need other people to 'play by my rules' :)

I can only advise you to actually read the original post instead of complaining about something that is not even expressed.

@ryaneko:
Yeah, I have been wondering about that too. I was almost inclined to start posting a link to here in every new such thread but then I decided not to. Mostly because a considerable part of those 'honor' threads are less concerned with any kind of personal code of honor and far more with shaming other players, imposing your will on others and justifying your failure.

Icetower
02-16-2017, 09:08 PM
I'll try to do this, but if I end up playing against people who are going to treat the game and myself as if it is the Titanfall 2 servers, then I'm going to do everything I can to win.

Seriously, that community is a wasteland of jerks. Hopefully, I'll end up playing with the same type of decent players I have played with on Battlefield 1.

LordKaterchen
02-16-2017, 10:52 PM
@Icetower:
Glad you are going to try it.

And yeah, I have witnessed some broken communities in my lifetime. I wish I knew an actually realistic solution, but I honestly do not. I think actually trying to be nice and not deliberately aggravating people is a good start though.

Icetower
02-16-2017, 11:02 PM
@LordKaterchen I appreciate the time you put into this and I'm really hoping for a fun game with some good interactions with players. The Open Beta gave me hope. Played some 2v2 duels where the other team took one of us down, one of them wited to see how the other fight would pan out instead of just murderfacing us. It was a nice change of pace. I really like the concept of this game and look forward to lots of great fun with good players. See ya on the battlefield!

@ Everyone: As for Dominion mode don't forget: PTFO!

Rhadegar
02-17-2017, 12:02 AM
While a lot of those are just common courtesy, the fact that they are getting viewership and getting their established name (DCOH) is great, as the declaration that you are following that is a great way to have allies know in advance what you plan to play with. I think this will add the primary thing this game is lacking - soul, as I personally find a game named "For Honor" which doesn't have any actual stress on any meaning of the word "honor" to either being great at being ironic, or to be missing something completely. Salute for creating this initiative, sir, I shall follow it gladly.

Also, despite all of your disclaimers there are still those that think it is about them personally and how you are asking them to follow a playstyle. I cannot explain it to myself how it happens considering how clear the post is.

Fips-DieGrille
02-17-2017, 01:02 AM
I saw that you did a lot of work there and it is nice that you encourage yourself
BUT this attitude is ruining the game for a lot of people.
When people try to make a 1v1 out of a 2v2 or even 4v4 game, something is definetly going wrong. I like teamplay, i like to use all the game gives you to strike the enemy team down. It is really annoying when people flame you for this (i know you dont do that) or just do not participate.
I do not understand why the people that want to play 1v1 (that is totally legit) not just play 1v1? There is this gamemode. Just use it.
For honor has great mechanics to fight against multiple enemies. 1v2 are totally manageable. For 1v3 or 1v4 it is mostly too hard, ofc but it is normal to lose if your team loses. So there is nothing new compared to any other team game.
Please treat the multiplayer modes as they are: multiplayer! You would not do that with other games, would you? Playing league of legends all 1v1? or Counterstrike? Or whatever you can think of.

Fordol
02-17-2017, 01:27 AM
I'll follow it as far as my opponent does in duels and brawls, and elimination where possible. I won't use a numbers advantage unless my opponent does so first. If I extend that courtesy to my opponent and they choose not to do the same in return, then I'll happily gang up on them. If my opponent wants to fight honourably, then I'll do the same. If not, I won't. I'll let them choose the terms of engagment, but I won't put myself at a disadvantage by refusing to gang up if they are doing so.

However, in the chaos of dominion mode all bets are off. Its proper war, and as they say, all is fair in love and war.

slbcrew
02-17-2017, 01:59 AM
You can write this honor code but dont expect me to follow it, not gonna have same experience as the dark souls fight club. my honor code are simple you fight till the end even you lose no need other rules cause everything is permitted in there. good luck try to build that code
Low skill or cowardice

slbcrew
02-17-2017, 02:01 AM
I won't waste my advantage which I fairly achieved to please YOU, I don't use cheats, I dont use bugs, do I play fairly? I think yes, so anybody's personal damn codes doesnt bother me, not I nor anybody should play by YOUR rules.
You attacking 1 injured opponent with 3 teammates isn't EARNED, it's cowardly and a mark of low skill since you CAN'T win a legit 1 on 1, but keep being a coward and sooner or later the community will get tired of it and dwindle to nothing and you can play bots

slbcrew
02-17-2017, 02:05 AM
@Icetower:
Glad you are going to try it.

And yeah, I have witnessed some broken communities in my lifetime. I wish I knew an actually realistic solution, but I honestly do not. I think actually trying to be nice and not deliberately aggravating people is a good start though.
These cowards who only attack 3 or 4 on 1 are crappie players who can't win honorable duels and what will happen is a majority of the player base will get tired of herbs and cowards and will leave and the game will either die or get patched to stop it

LordKaterchen
02-17-2017, 02:29 AM
@Icetower: See you on the Battlefield

@Rhadegar:
Thank you so much, it is posts like these that help me keep temperance and positivity in the scope of this thread :)

@Fips-DieGrille:
Thank you for reading.
But when we come to attitudes ruining the game for other players I would actually start with the much bigger problem of flaming and toxicity.

And despite your claims of a 'lot of players' having this ruin the game for them, judging by the polls by far the most seem to be fine with it one way or another even if they do not follow the code. Which is fine by me both in regards to my opponents and team mates.

And 1v1 is still not the same thing because even if you follow the code, winning a 2v2 or 4v4 remains a team-effort where one can step up to win the fight that a teammate lost. So it is a different thing.

@Fordol:
Fair enough ^.^ You seem to have a decent mittleground

@slbcrew:
I would very much appreacite if you would stop insulting random responders to my thread.

Honestly it is people like you, who give the idea of 'honor' a bad reputation in this game.

Playing to win does neither imply cowardice, nor lack of skill nor malice. It is just playing a game with focus on the competitive aspect and there is nothing wrong with it.

There is a reason for the first four rules to be mostly about social interaction. That is by far the most important part of the code.
When I was talking about having witnessed multiple communities breaking down in my lifetime I was not talking about gamers who follow a play-to-win strategy I was talking about the communities becoming a cesspool of toxic interaction. A problem that you are partaking in with your attempt to force your view how to play the game onto others and insulting them if they disagree.

Mathonn
02-17-2017, 04:50 AM
Hope your quest for honor in dueling is going well, and that maybe some players will catch on to the social aspects of the code.

YungHeadshots
02-17-2017, 08:30 AM
lol you guys have fun with your tea party, I'm gonna kill you all the same

WONGBOMBWONG
02-17-2017, 01:23 PM
Great Post!

I commend you for taking the time and having the patience to respond to so many of the replies in this thread.

I will strive to keep to the code.

Duelists gonna duel, haters gonna hate.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-17-2017, 02:13 PM
In 2 v 2 for the most part I have had no issues. Most of the time I get mature and respectful opponents who wait and most of the time I even get people who actively avoid using ledge throws.


BUT


I have noticed a trend that for some people this respect only lasts as long as they are winning. The MOMENT you gain the upperhand on them they are 2 v 1-ing till the cows come home.

Even funnier when the poor kids start hanging out next to ledges and refuse to fight anywhere else.

Its sad that people are willing to sacrifice skill and maturity for a win lol

LordKaterchen
02-17-2017, 03:49 PM
@Mathonn:
Yes the social aspect is the most important for me as well. Playing in the last days and watching the community had thoroughly ... mixed results

@ReturnOfSanta:
Sure, you do that. It's not like our tea parties would be lacking any killing to begin with ^.^

@WONGBOMBWONG:
Yeah it is somewhat of a struggle :) Glad you'll try keeping it up

Crytsch
02-17-2017, 10:04 PM
You attacking 1 injured opponent with 3 teammates isn't EARNED, it's cowardly and a mark of low skill since you CAN'T win a legit 1 on 1, but keep being a coward and sooner or later the community will get tired of it and dwindle to nothing and you can play bots

why you think someone who ganks doesnt earned this advantage? if he is able to gank because the game is 2/3/4vs1, then ofcourse he earned it by winning his own 1vs1. your "honor"-code is out of any logic it seems
you want people to play with your "rules" but deny them to play after their rules? that very selfish and ignorant, dont you think so?

- saying that i dont like to gank nor do i gank when i won my 1vs1,i wait as long as the enemy does the same when they are 2vs1 against me or my teammate.

YungHeadshots
02-17-2017, 10:51 PM
Imagine being so bad at 75% of the game that you make up an entire ruleset to avoid it. Then you call it "honor" so you can feel superior to those that don't abide :confused:

Have you guys even played the advanced practice? It shows you the basics of fighting multiple opponents. It's a super engaging and fun part of the game and honestly you're robbing yourself of a challenge.

LordKaterchen
02-17-2017, 10:54 PM
@Crytsch:
Hi ^.^
First of all, the honor code presented in this thread is not slbcrews honor code, seeing as he is literally violating the first rule already :)
Second of all I already asked slbcrew not to randomly flame other posters for following a different playstyle.
Third: No one is denying you playing by your own rules. I can only advise you to read the original post.

@ReturnOfSanta:
I am not avoiding anything :) I play with people following play-to-win strategies all the time, without complaining, mind you.
So, no I am not robbing myself of any challenge. This is a ruleset that I follow for myself, I do not expect my opponents to follow it.
Also no feeling of superiority going around :)

I can only advise you to read the original post instead of responding to what you assume is actually expressed therein.

Crytsch
02-17-2017, 11:02 PM
@Crytsch:
Hi ^.^
First of all, the honor code presented in this thread is not slbcrews honor code, seeing as he is literally violating the first rule already :)
Second of all I already asked slbcrew not to randomly flame other posters for following a different playstyle.
Third: No one is denying you playing by your own rules. I can only advise you to read the original post.

have read part of the op. its most likely a guide to be the "nice-guy" in for honor. some goods things are in there which can be transfered into all games and also in reallife (beeing civilized, keep calm, dont rage, etc.).

however, the whole thing with honorable playstyle, attitude etc. seem to be good (atleast in my eyes), but it can NEVER be applied to the whole community. we had these kind of "rules" since dark souls 1. and by the time the dark souls franchise has grown and lived for YEARS now, there are still players who dont follow these rules.
but thats not the point. the point is that everyone is getting satisfaction in a different way.

the only things who should be on this list of rules are:

-be a nice guy (attitude-wise) - because thats always good
- play however you want, do whatever you want. if you are able to do it in the game without cheating or bugabusing its intended.

PERIOD. everything else is just bull-poo. people tend to think that they are superior while they are only selfish and ignorant in the end, because they think their point of view is the only one / the best one

LordKaterchen
02-17-2017, 11:35 PM
@Crytsch:
You are right, it cannot be applied to the whole community. That is why in the original post i mention multiple times that I explicitly DO NOT APPLY it to the whole community. I leave it up to personal choice with no judgement against people who do not follow the rules.

It is not MEANT to be a general Ruleset for everyone to follow. It is a specific code of honor that got a NAME and a DEFINITION so likeminded people can just point at it or use the phrase to everyone's understanding and you'd know that much if you even had read the introduction instead of skimming it and jumping to conclusions.

You are still answering to something that I neither wrote, nor intended.

jaka_lope
02-17-2017, 11:37 PM
so go play duels. tired of people whining about getting ganged up when they voluntarily joined a mode with more people than a standard duel. if you don't like it, go play 1v1.

LordKaterchen
02-17-2017, 11:47 PM
@jaka_lope:
I can understand you man.

Not only am I also getting tired of people who use 'honor' as an instrument for justifying their losses while shaming others.

I also am getting a little bit tired of people seeing the title of the thread and making wild assumptions to what is contained within it instead of reading.

Please, read the original post before replying to something that is just not there.

Crytsch
02-18-2017, 11:49 AM
@Crytsch:
You are right, it cannot be applied to the whole community. That is why in the original post i mention multiple times that I explicitly DO NOT APPLY it to the whole community. I leave it up to personal choice with no judgement against people who do not follow the rules.

It is not MEANT to be a general Ruleset for everyone to follow. It is a specific code of honor that got a NAME and a DEFINITION so likeminded people can just point at it or use the phrase to everyone's understanding and you'd know that much if you even had read the introduction instead of skimming it and jumping to conclusions.

You are still answering to something that I neither wrote, nor intended.

I have never said that you said it in this way. I just wrote that it doesnt make sense because you will never have the whole community following this code, nor will you reach the whole community with a single thread. Considering this, this whole thread is worthless. That was my point after all. :rolleyes:

Therefore, people are right when they say "go play 1vs1". This, or play private games with ur friends or with people who also follow that code.

But asking in public matchmaking for following guidelines who arent accepted by everyone, nor are known to everyone - senseless in creating such a code in general ;)

(tbh i dont want to insult or blame you or anyone who follow this code, as i menntioned before i do it in most of your op-points too)

Fordol
02-18-2017, 11:55 AM
I have never said that you said it in this way. I just wrote that it doesnt make sense because you will never have the whole community following this code, nor will you reach the whole community with a single thread. Considering this, this whole thread is worthless. That was my point after all. :rolleyes:

Therefore, people are right when they say "go play 1vs1". This, or play private games with ur friends or with people who also follow that code.

But asking in public matchmaking for following guidelines who arent accepted by everyone, nor are known to everyone - senseless in creating such a code in general ;)

(tbh i dont want to insult or blame you or anyone who follow this code, as i menntioned before i do it in most of your op-points too)

So you're saying that because it only reaches some people it isn't worth doing? That is incorrect. The point isn't to convert the whole community to this way of playing, its a way to fight that gives those that subscribe to it a sense of satisfaction by playing in a way that they enjoy, and perceive as fair and honourable. If you didn't get that from the OP then I suspect you should go through and read it again.

The Code explicitly says that you shouldn't expect your opponent to abide by the rules even of you are, nor should you belittle or insult them for not doing so. It is just a personal choice for the player. And if you come across people fighting in the same way then that's all well and good too.

LordKaterchen
02-18-2017, 03:07 PM
Crytsch:
*points to Fordols response* That is pretty much exactly what I would have responded. Which brings me to...

@Fordol:
I am ... literally unable to express the scope of my gratitude for your response.
You understand very well what I wanted to express and on top of it you try to be nice about it.
Thank you so much.

Fips-DieGrille
02-18-2017, 03:38 PM
@Fips-DieGrille:
Thank you for reading.
But when we come to attitudes ruining the game for other players I would actually start with the much bigger problem of flaming and toxicity.

And despite your claims of a 'lot of players' having this ruin the game for them, judging by the polls by far the most seem to be fine with it one way or another even if they do not follow the code. Which is fine by me both in regards to my opponents and team mates.

And 1v1 is still not the same thing because even if you follow the code, winning a 2v2 or 4v4 remains a team-effort where one can step up to win the fight that a teammate lost. So it is a different thing.



You are right about the toxicity issue, i totally agree.
But you are wrong about the poll: over 62% voted no. This whole 1v1 thing ruins multiplayer modes. And splitting all fights into 1v1s can maybe still seen as a team effort but it does not require any strategical team action and so is not the kind of teamplay i and i think a lot of other teamplayers enjoy.
So i am sorry but i stick with the advice to do duel mode because that is what you want: duels!
Ubisoft may should put a gamemode that you can have more player in the duel mode lobby with a rotation, then you would more exactly get what you want. I would totally support his. But please stop trying to convert a game mode to something that it is not meant for.

YungHeadshots
02-18-2017, 06:13 PM
OP is calling for "no 10 second blitz" in the NFL

VioI3t
02-18-2017, 08:06 PM
so go play duels. tired of people whining about getting ganged up when they voluntarily joined a mode with more people than a standard duel. if you don't like it, go play 1v1.

Sorry that ya know some of us have friends that we enjoy playing a fair game with.

Krot.torK
02-18-2017, 11:07 PM
I just wanted to input real quick as some are taking this a bit too seriously...

This DCoH guideline is a matter or respect. There is a lot of opportunity for griefing during a decent fight. If you follow this guideline, which has been the unspoken rules of honor for a while now, you will gain a feeling of pride and accomplishment regardless outcome.

Since launch I've been constantly playing against play to win strats, a few gaurd hacks and have been dropped out of games right before the last execution. In the end it just feels like another not so noteworthy match against pubs. Conform or lose (or lose your hair). But when you are in a match where everyone is respectful and atleast follow some of the guide outlined here, you will have the most memorable fun without that feeling of pettiness.

Please even if you don't want to follow and guides, I beg you all to stay honorful! I love this game so much, but after so many games of people being salty, complaining about every single detail, dropping players and being just aweful people in general, it makes me not want to associate with the community.

TL;DR Regardless of what you do, keep your dignity and always remain honorful.

Zeolite XIII
02-18-2017, 11:46 PM
Look, I can't make this any more simple. Take your misguided honor and stick to the damn 1v1 playlist or custom matches.

Because of you and people like you and this woefully misguided thread noobs walk into Dominion and think their going to promote 1v1 honor fights. They withdraw from anything other then 1v1 leaving the team in a worse situation then if a bot was there because a bot will actually play the objective.

Suck it up buttercup the game isn't about 1v1 either accept it and move on or go buy some standard fighting game. We all shouldn't suffer because of someone's confused chivalry!

jaka_lope
02-19-2017, 01:11 AM
and my final fix is... turn off the text chat. now nobody can whine at me for anything that happens outside of the 1v1. perfect solution :)

PKUSUB
02-19-2017, 01:43 AM
If there's anything I can praise you for it is the fact that it is very well written, but what a waste of time.

Creating some "honor code" where you are in no position to punish/reward doesn't make any sense. In the end, you will only be more frustrated because you are bounded a made up code that only you will follow.

sorry man, this is not real combat, for honor doesn't require real honor.

LordKaterchen
02-19-2017, 05:07 AM
@Fips-DieGrille:
I am glad you agree regarding the toxicity.
As for the poll. While 62% voted no in some regard, only a fraction of that is actively opposed to the idea. (And that is including quite a few who didn't actually even read the Original Post but rather just assumed another whine post or attempt to force my rules onto others. Seriously, just look through all the response pages. There is so many people who didn't bother reading and responded to something that I didn't write but what they assumed by just the title. Just judging by that I can assume a part of the negative votes to come from just as much bias and assumption instead of actual information).

And if you count in people who have their own code of honor together with those who might try or follow the DCoH at least in the poll that is actually a majority of people interested in some kind of honor. (granted the majoritiy of people who would even look at this thread, which is still just a fraction of players.)

And I have 36 hours of playtime in in the release version now (on top of some 40+ in betas) and while I did see the multiplayer modes being ruined by either excessive flaming or leavers I have yet to find it ruined by someone playing by the DCoH. And that includes me. Over all that playtime I got exactly one complaint from a teammate who wanted me to help out 2v1.

What I did see ruin games a few times is the war between those who DEMAND from others to follow their idea of honor VS those who DEMAND others to play to win.

I am not part of either side in this though. There is a reason that not trying to push this code onto anyone is literally the first rule.
Also, while I do enjoy duelling it is not like I wouldn't enjoy my 1vs2 and 1vs3 fights once in a while (actually currently more often then not, I don't see many people abstaining from interfering. Which is fine), so sticking to a duel mode wouldn't exactly provide that.

But I will grant you that a duel lobby would be a great idea. As for our discrepancy... what would really fix it, is a seperation of ranked/rated and unranked/unrated modes. I would totally accept that rated/ranked is explicitly intended for a play-to-win strategy and In those modes I would also abide by it.

@agiant5:
I appreciate the idea of helping but getting personal is not the right way to go about it, so please don't

@torkshad0w:
Not demanding from anyone to be honorful. I would be more than satisfied with people just being a little bit nicer ^.^

@Zeo-XIII:
No offense, but I really have no obligation to play the game like you want me to, as long as I stay within the rules of the gamesystem and still strive for victory. Just like you don't have to play the game like I would like you too.

Also assuming that DCoH players are actually bad for the team's win chance - which they arguably are when compared to pure play-to-win-type of players - this will result in them losing more often than not and as such reduce their matchmaking rating. That means that their selfimposed handicap is going to be accounted for in the long run.
If you still get teamed up with a DCoH player after the MMR has stabilized that will just mean that this player brings about as much strength to the team as you do, despite the selfimposed handicap. So it is still a fair match overall.

@jaka_lope:
Again, not promoting whining ^.^ Actually kind of anti-promoting it.

@PKUSUB:
I appreciate the praise.

But you are mistaking my point. I do not want to punish or reward anybody, as I am not trying to enforce this code of honor.
I also don't think it is a waste of time. The biggest goal I can have with this code is to be just something that people understand. So if I join a match and announce to play by the DCoH my team is warned and knows what to expect. If that starts to work at least in some cases, i would have achieved everything I wanted.
I do not try to get everyone to play by this.

As for the frustration. I am 36 hours in (76+ with betas) strictly following the code and I still thoroughly enjoy the game. Also judging by the polls and some of the responses I am not really the only one interested or trying this.

And I agree that 'For Honor' doesn't require any honor, but I would say that having each and everyone applying pure play to win strategy would actually be a little bit boring :)

Nhat_
02-19-2017, 08:19 AM
Well, then you need the mode "Duel" to remove all cards from the cliffs, fire and geysers. In any other mode, such cards are allowed, but not in duels 1 vs 1. In the duel should be disclosed to your level of character, and not the ability to push. Personally, if I push in a duel over a cliff, just go out for a worthy opponent just fight with artificial intelligence

Fips-DieGrille
02-19-2017, 02:04 PM
@Fips-DieGrille:
I am glad you agree regarding the toxicity.
As for the poll. While 62% voted no in some regard, only a fraction of that is actively opposed to the idea. (And that is including quite a few who didn't actually even read the Original Post but rather just assumed another whine post or attempt to force my rules onto others. Seriously, just look through all the response pages. There is so many people who didn't bother reading and responded to something that I didn't write but what they assumed by just the title. Just judging by that I can assume a part of the negative votes to come from just as much bias and assumption instead of actual information).

And if you count in people who have their own code of honor together with those who might try or follow the DCoH at least in the poll that is actually a majority of people interested in some kind of honor. (granted the majoritiy of people who would even look at this thread, which is still just a fraction of players.)

And I have 36 hours of playtime in in the release version now (on top of some 40+ in betas) and while I did see the multiplayer modes being ruined by either excessive flaming or leavers I have yet to find it ruined by someone playing by the DCoH. And that includes me. Over all that playtime I got exactly one complaint from a teammate who wanted me to help out 2v1.

What I did see ruin games a few times is the war between those who DEMAND from others to follow their idea of honor VS those who DEMAND others to play to win.

I am not part of either side in this though. There is a reason that not trying to push this code onto anyone is literally the first rule.
Also, while I do enjoy duelling it is not like I wouldn't enjoy my 1vs2 and 1vs3 fights once in a while (actually currently more often then not, I don't see many people abstaining from interfering. Which is fine), so sticking to a duel mode wouldn't exactly provide that.

But I will grant you that a duel lobby would be a great idea. As for our discrepancy... what would really fix it, is a seperation of ranked/rated and unranked/unrated modes. I would totally accept that rated/ranked is explicitly intended for a play-to-win strategy and In those modes I would also abide by it.


But you cannot know what people mean by their own code. And the problem is that you are mixing up too many things here. You cannot really say what people agree and disagree with. I would for example totally agree with your code if you would get rid of this 1v1 thing. In my opinion this has nothing to do with honor or respect. You are mixing here a suggestion for fair and good behaviour in a community with an opinion of how to play the game and i would really suggest to seperate this because it has nothing to do with each other. It makes it hard because a lot of people have to agree and disagree at the same time.

Panakawan
02-19-2017, 09:51 PM
i dont agree in Forfeit Environmental Insta-Kills,
because its not easy too land a single hit to good assassins, n most samurai heroes.

u're playing kensei, u have speed n agility.
so throwing its not ur heroes advantage,

don't u think that ur opponent (raider, lawbringer, warlord for example) dishonoring u when he didn't using all of his capabilities?


btw, i got a lot complain about player specially my opponent, asking for DCoH.
i mean, y i have to see my partner getting beaten?
if its a brawl, it have to be my partner who asking me for DCoH, n that i will honor his wish.
otherway, he should help me after killing his opponent faster, even if i agree for his DCoH, because im not asking it.

its a honor, to fullfill a brother in arm's wish,
n its a honor, to fight an opponent who gives his best to fight me, even if i lost, i enjoy the fight.

i'm sorry for my bad english, its not my mother language, i hope u get my point.

Gothic_Mando
02-21-2017, 12:10 PM
Concerning your 6 rules, i can respect all except no.6. Thats just robbing players of choice and tactics. Why shouldnt we be able to make a strategic retreat to regroup / replenish health?... im sure its seen by some as an underhanded tactic, but its also smart and effective.

Aside from that, i always encourage ideas that aim to help stamp out provocative behavior in online communities, aswell as promoting respect and kinship.

AKDagriZ
02-21-2017, 06:34 PM
I do not agree.Im the first one to encourage no ganking the last one standing and letting him have a decent death . Other than that i will use every means to win and not dying.

If you run out of stamina i will definitly go and shoulder bash you on the floor ! If i make a mistake you will try to kill .The enemy is here to kill you it is the only purpose of a fight, killing your opponent

If i can sneak behind you in dominion i will definitly try to kill you or throw you a feat

I will also use everything around that can help me kill you.In duel 1v1 it something else ...If you feel you have a good connection with your opponent there is usualy an unwritten law where no one will try by all mean to thorw offf of cliffs.But that it !

Elimination . I will find any teammate near me and assist him .Having a respectful 2 vs 1 is actualy one of the best aspect of the game

CapnPunkin
02-21-2017, 07:12 PM
I adore fighting multiple opponents, I take it as an oppertunity to overcome the impossible and often in a 4v1 scenario I take several opponents with me, or even flat out win the game through sheer grit and dirty filthy slaughter. But in a 1V1 I try to be respectful right up to the point where I see someone abusing combos and getting downright cheesy. At that point honor is broken, and as a Lawbringer I will bash spam my opponent right off the map with no shame what so ever.

RavenSpear13
02-21-2017, 08:04 PM
There's a lesson to be learned here, and while some people seem capable of grasping that, others are steering their way around it with some rather coarse and nasty language. Honor, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. In layman's terms, one's honor is based solely on opinion. There are no set rules or fact that denote it. To those like the OP, they find the concept of a duelist's code to be both fun an entertaining, and isn't that why we all play games? Games are an entertainment media, and if someone decides to play it differently than you because they find that the more entertaining option, that's their decision. I have a great deal of respect for Katerchen because of his steadfast and honest defence of his own choices in this matter, when so many of these posts have been referring to matters far beyond his control. This is something he decided to do, and a work he decided to share with others, whether they agreed with its principles or not. I agree with most of them, particularly with those sections regarding social interaction, as I endeavor to be as pleasant and polite in my communication with others in the game as I can. When I lose, I congratulate the enemy, and when I win (which is rare, admittedly), I do the same. I don't fault people for using the available means at their disposal, even if I personally eschew using some of them (particularly just heroes with powerful throws around ledges) for my own enjoyment. Play the game your way. Enjoy it that way, and like the OP stated at the beginning, it's your way, so don't push it on others.

Fips-DieGrille
02-22-2017, 12:24 AM
it's your way, so don't push it on others.

But this does not count for team games, because that is what teamgames are about: Relying on others. A good teamgame cant be done alone. And people must understand that the developers had a specific way in their mind and so i would like to encourage people to play it like that. Otherwise you do not play the game to its full potential. For example: The Assassin is meant to be stronger in 1v1 fights, while heavies can hold against multiple enemies for a longer time. They also get different amount of points for what they do. In a 1v1 1v1 1v1 1v1 Assassins are totally in advantage. If someone invents a game, respect the rules they made or you cannot play the game properly. If it would just be for yourself i would not care but think of the others that rely on you. Help them win, for honor!

CF_Alrik
02-22-2017, 01:39 AM
But this does not count for team games, because that is what teamgames are about: Relying on others. A good teamgame cant be done alone. And people must understand that the developers had a specific way in their mind and so i would like to encourage people to play it like that. Otherwise you do not play the game to its full potential. For example: The Assassin is meant to be stronger in 1v1 fights, while heavies can hold against multiple enemies for a longer time. They also get different amount of points for what they do. In a 1v1 1v1 1v1 1v1 Assassins are totally in advantage. If someone invents a game, respect the rules they made or you cannot play the game properly. If it would just be for yourself i would not care but think of the others that rely on you. Help them win, for honor!

I think most 1v1 mode players would agree with me that assassins are not inherently stronger than other classes in a duel. Peacekeepers, Orochis and Berserkers are by no means bad classes, but they are not straight up superior to others like warlord, Shugoki and warden when it comes to duels.

suboptiml
02-22-2017, 04:29 AM
It's "For Honor", not "With Honor".

RatedChaotic
02-22-2017, 08:02 AM
No mercy!!!!

LordKaterchen
02-22-2017, 01:00 PM
@Nhat_:
No, I do not need them removed. I can still omit using them :) I don't demand the same from my opponent.

@Fips-DieGrille:
You are by now pretty much the living embodiement of why I said that you can make a pretty strong case that it is a 'wrong way' to play the game. Your argumentation is tight and I appreciate the calm and topic-related tone in your responses, especially in contrast to some other posts, so thank you for that.

Beyond the Rule of Numbers and some of the gestures of respect which partly share the fact of being a handicap the Duelist Code of Honor would be little more than a 'be nice' guide, that is akin to the basic behavioural guidelines of any game, online community or forum. We already have those guidelines (even though they are massively ignored for the most part because it's the internet).

But even though I see the social guidelines as a necessary and actually major foundation of the code, they are not sufficient to express the kind of playstyle which this DCoH still is, that I follow and wanted to give a clear definition for.

Nevertheless your posts got me thinking on how you could compromise or close the gap a little between the extremes of 'play to win' amd 'strict codes of honor', but I think that the DCoH is already the best compromise I can come up with while preserving my fun in the game.

Either way, I stand by that a seperation of ranked and unranked/casual play would solve this problem for the most part.

As for your argumentation towards RavenSpear13:
You are totally right assuming that the only goal is winning.
But that is just what I am saying: Winning at any and all cost and optimizing my play solely towards that goal is not my exclusive intention when playing for honor. My enjoyment of the game goes beyond the result of a round and is also rooted in how I play it.

That is by the way also the reason why a lot of games tend to seperate between ranked and unranked modes. In order to provide a playground for the strictly competitive crew as well as for the people who want to play for fun first and foremost. I have belonged to both of those factions multiple times depending on the game in question and I can understand and respect both intentions.

In For Honor both of those are thrown together and the mixture tends to explode.

On another note: I played a lot the last few days and holy crap ... I think I haven't played a single round over the course of 6 hours without someone complaining, flaming, taunting or outright personally attacking someone else. This still occured more between opponents than within a team (and again not once based on my choice of DCoH), but even for someone used to mobas this was ... sad to witness. I guess the emotions really run high in this game and with no tangible consequence people just let go.

@Panakawan:
If someone actually asked you to follow the DCoH, they were not really following the DCoH. Rule number one already states that you accept all other playstyles.
As for class balance affecting the insta-kill chance. You are right. That is also the reason why it is an optional gesture, not an actual rule.

@Gothic_Mando:
You are right, but then every additional rule you put upon yourself that goes beyond what the game enforces puts another limitation on you. The choice of my rules in this is arbitrary in the sense that once you start making additional rules at all there is no clear sense of right and wrong. So the DCoH is merely a composition of my preference. You are very free to follow your own code and I still appreciate that you agree to a good part of it :)

@AKDagriZ:
Yes, play to win :) If that is how you get the most out of the game, play it that way. I still appreciate that you give the last man standing a fighting chance. Love those moments.

@CapnPunkin:
Me too :) Playing 1vX is fun for me personally.
As for the point where the honor is broken... I do not get to that point. Because if I drop my code just because someone else gets an advantage because of it I would basically never use it. It would be less of a personal code (which this is) and more of an agreement on a shared ruleset within a match. Which is also fine though :)

@RavenSpear13:
Thank you so very, very much ^.^ Hope to see you in game some day.

@Sputtelkopf:
I would also agreee that not every assasin is stronger in duel than every other single class.
I am very sure though that some classes perform better in duels (or at least better vs certain other classes) assuming exactly equal skill between players.

@suboptiml:
Uhm ... so? I still played starcraft without delving into the craft of how to beautifully create stars ^.^ I never claimed that the title of the game had anything to do with my decision why I play this way and I deem any arguments based on this to be rather silly honestly.

@RatedChaotic:
Sure. Nobody asks your for any mercy :)

Dzehenuti
02-22-2017, 04:51 PM
Add Revenge and i will agreed.

RedRecon141
02-22-2017, 06:25 PM
I like how the people who can't play the game don't follow this because the only way they can kill people is by double teaming.

CF_Alrik
02-22-2017, 06:34 PM
I like how the people who can't play the game don't follow this because the only way they can kill people is by double teaming.

You don't follow this Code either. Your post goes against the very core of this thread as far as i understand the OP.

bob333e
02-22-2017, 11:21 PM
First off, I should point out: reactivated my account here just today, and entered the forums, for the sole purpose of supporting this move. I've heard of this elsewhere, and came here to check it out. I hope my account sees more useful activity than to follow this thread and news on the implementation of the DCoH within the For Honor community, but heh, one can only hope.

Very well written article. I'll start with some of the points I personally found confusing:

-Gesture of Respect #3: Some classes are designed as assassins and henceforth meant to give you trouble in preparing for an oncoming attack from them on the battlefield. In some way, telling them to remain visible and detected is like asking them to give you free food. Which I personally dislike, because in my opinion, 1) it becomes a crutch over time, and you learn less and less how to effectively detect, and deflect, attacks from assassins, and 2) I don't like having my opponent handicap themselves so I can feel comfy, I want them to go full brute force with their entire combat arsenal. (I'm talking about actual combat. Not ganks or excessive attempts at pushing into ledge / spike walls).

-Gesture of Respect #6: in a real scenario, this would have made sense. In For Honor, it would have made sense if executions were the only real way to kill your opponent. Your opponent will simply die when out of health, executions or not, plus they can still be revived even when executed, saw that in a couple vids. I don't see the point of refraining from using the execution animations, they do make the killing blow more fun to spectate, for both sides. They're very well done animations. And on a side note, "executing" someone can also mean two things: 1) You're thanking them for a really good fight and ending it on a good note (provided you don't spam emotes afterwards), rather than do a simple light/heavy attack and stand still or run towards the nearest wall, and 2) if the fight was too easy for you, you're essentially telling them, "this is so you remember this battle, fight better next time!"

-Gesture of Respect #7: In my opinion, Elimination, Dominion, and Skirmish are hectic messes, you don't really wait for anything, and you can barely even afford to have good 1v1s in these modes. And more often than not, your opponent will likely seek to revive a fallen teammate, as a surplus. In essence, they're people I don't know. I'm already doing my best to remain honourable by waiting for them to finish a duel, by not spamming emotes and doing a circus show, by not berating them in quickchat, etc. To ask me to even wait for them to regen, that's asking a bit too much :p

-Gesture of Respect #8: Speaking of revive... only allow that if YOU deem the opposing team deserving more chances against you. If they're cheapo cowards, they simply do not deserve this added luxury. It just means an even more annoying fight to you. In some rare cases, if you ever meet two skilled duellists, or even better, an actual duo / trio / squad, then by all means, let one revive another; the survivor will understand you wish to rematch the one who fell. It's another unwritten and unspoken rule, and a bit too overlooked.

Other than the aforementioned confusions, I agree with everything you said, and I support the DCoH. You've done a splendid job wording it out, and I hope more people follow it to some extent. We do not need another Dark Souls playerbase, or, worse, another Call of Duty playerbase (the comparison applies, with ranked matches and scavenger crates and whatnot).

Thanks for reading. :)

AKDagriZ
02-23-2017, 08:24 PM
this whole honor code debate is a non sense.At first when me and my brother start to play closed beta we tough brawl mode was a kinda 2 :1v1. Then we realise BOT run away to regroup everytime you give him enough space.After that we understood how well heroes perform when outnumbered ! The mechanic of the revenge mode ,etc...

Now this is how we expect to play Brawl fights :

-first whenever its possible we will try to regroup at the beginnig of the round

-Dont listen to any favor enemy may ask.(well if he ask couple second delay that ok) Keep in mind at the end its you or them.They will never take your side.they will try to kill you at the very first opportunity and execute you.

-if you loose your duel some by stand and let your teammate wear out and will let he's own teammate die , so he can finish your teammate right away.Smart but no honor.

-if your teammate lost is duel , keep an eye on the second enemy.If he bystand your duel strike him as well .They are often surprised by your move since he was chilling out and enjoying the show.Use their response wisely to gain maximum of revenge don't let them surround you , try to keep your 2 opponent in front of you.

-If you won your duel and your almost out of energy .Dont by stand yur teammate.If the enemy kill your teammate , he will more likely be in a good momentum since you are not fighting you loose your edge and your level of stress.

That being said if you won your duel and you are half full energy.Analyse whats going on ! does your teamate doing really good ? does your teamate have a tooth against this particular dude and he wish to kill him himself?Maybe it is also an outstanding fight that worth to be watched.Or does your teammate really need your help.Dont jump in the brawl at all cost.

There is not bad or dirty tactik me what i really like is With the Valkyrie or conqueror only shield bash the enemy in direction of my teammate .My teammate Strike as i shield bash again.

Show respect to the death dont teabag or sit on your dead opponent with Shugoki.

IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH HONOR .DONT EVER EXECUTE AN ENEMY .THERE IS NO HONOR IN EXECUTING SOMEONE WHO IS ALREADY DOWN AND BEATEN :nonchalance:

i will not abide by any code .I respect everyone .I usually play along with at least 2 other in a room.We congrat enemy for a good fight.I swear if we begin to see dcoH tag in game we will gank you more than anyone else !We , who understood the game and really enjoy it for what it is start to feel opressed by a group of extremist fanatic who want to impose their own Will and forces us to believe in code that doesnt exist

JeenaSun
02-24-2017, 09:18 AM
This is ******ed. There is a mode 1v1 for crybabies like that. Revenge mode and gear are made for a reason in this game. I enjoy when 2-4 players attack since I have a revenge build. It makes it easier to kill them, and I just need one heavy attack to finish them off. And I hate people who play this "honorable" way, and I report them for that.

Aidames
02-24-2017, 07:26 PM
It is unbelievable how many people still think that this topic is here to convince everyone to use an honor system, even though the TC states very clearly that it is absolutely not the intention.

I agree with most of the code and my playstyle is similar, except I'm more willing to adapt to others. Meaning, in Brawls I usually ask if 2v1s are OK or not and play accordingly, if someone asks me not to do ledge throws or just help them figure something out, I honor their request. But, as a veteran roleplayer, I never once had a doubt that in 4v4 modes dueling honor has no place. Just like it never had in real wars. It's only in movies that the good guy magically duels with the big bad guy while the battle around them stops for like 15 minutes. In real life either of them would've been stabbed to death by a third (or fourth) party, given the first chance.

I also have no real issues with environmental deaths. At first I was like "ARGH WHAT A CHEAP WAY TO WIN" until I realized that it is through my own faults and mistakes that the opponent even has the chance to finish me off so cheaply.

A bit off topic, but if anyone has the feeling a lot that "Hey, I blocked that hit, why did it go through regardless?!", try tweaking your block sensitivity setting in the Options. It helped me out a bunch. It turned out that quite often (because of overly sensitive block settings) the game thought I was moving my stance when I really just wanted to move around and tilt the camera a tiny bit while in guard mode.

TC, I commend you on your efforts, though, and wish you good fortune in battle!

WoodDaGawd
02-24-2017, 10:35 PM
Yeah.. no


If I can kill you Im going to kill you. If there is an advantage, im going to take full use of it. If you want to play 1v1 in all battle modes, you should just limit yourself to 1v1 in that battle mode.

If I were in a street fight, im sure the guy im fighting is not going to wait til I tie my shoes and make sure im ready before he is ok to proceed.

kikid1999
02-25-2017, 02:03 AM
There are too many ledges in every single map so you don't need to learn combat anyway. The entire game is flawed.

Ski_nnyman
02-25-2017, 09:05 PM
In 2vs2, I'll wait 'till the other duel is done. If I see that the other team does not wait, then I don't either.

MobiusN749
02-26-2017, 02:29 AM
If someone specifically gestures to fight me I'll fight them honorably I'll even follow them to an open area if they want up until the point that they start trying to spam or one of their teammates tries to gank me. It's always Important to me to draw the line between fighting stupid and fighting dirty.

lBryanFury
02-26-2017, 05:01 AM
My answer is... "No and I think nobody should"

Because... this is a ******* war. There is no honor in war than get your life back to home. That is the only code to follow. Kill or Die, no matter the situation or the numbers.

As i follow that TRUE code of war, i don't complain on those that does the same against me. War is war, all means are good means... sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

ZoB.Raymond
02-26-2017, 06:19 AM
Aaaaah, nowadays people ... You are forced to "disclaim" everything because idiots get triggered by this ... You just can't say anything nowadays, this is a shame.

Brave_Thunder
02-26-2017, 10:09 AM
My answer is... "No and I think nobody should"

Because... this is a ******* war. There is no honor in war than get your life back to home. That is the only code to follow. Kill or Die, no matter the situation or the numbers.

As i follow that TRUE code of war, i don't complain on those that does the same against me. War is war, all means are good means... sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

I've never seen wars fighted in 4v4.In a real war,all is allowed,because your life is in true danger.Here the difference is only in the word that appears at the end of the round.Why cheese your way when you can fight and improve in the meantime?

Kernel.Fender
02-26-2017, 11:30 AM
Call This Number 01800-555-2356, say I told you to call, tell her its an emergency; she will know what to do. GL :)

TheCadian_
02-26-2017, 10:46 PM
I selected the 'No, but I will accept DCoH players' mainly because I feel that suits my play style just fine. For the most part in 1vs1 scenarios I tend to adhere to these ideals anyway. However I don't particularly stand in agreement on the re-positioning and retreating rules, mainly because I don't agree with the idea that it is dishonourable to throw someone off a ledge or into spikes.

Typically I won't do it if I can help it but from time to time someone sets themselves up for a gorgeous tumble and I feel obliged to help them.

E.G- Warden Shoulder Charge (not into GB) that positions them next to an edge... I just have to give them the nudge.

But if people don't throw me off ledges or try to I won't do the same.

LordKaterchen
02-27-2017, 05:47 PM
@Dzehenuti:
I was close to adding revenge, but I still hope they rework the mechanics to be helpful in only outnumbered fights and not trigger in every duel based upon gear.

@RedRecon141:
Judging by your statement you are not following it either.

@CF_Alrik.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you, I appreciate people actually helping me with the responses :)

@Fady117:
That is very flattering, thank you. Though it is less of move to establish it accross all of the For Honor multiplayer community and more of an effort to give a name and clear definition to something that DOES matter for a considerably number of players.
Also thank you for your insights on the multiple gestures, I might actually switch a few things up in my next update based on your thoughts.

@AKDagriZ:
I am sorry, but your post is extremely confusing.
First you declare the honor discussion to be nonsense only to then explain what is essentially your own take on the topic.
Also you call - I assume - me as the creator of the DCoH out as a an 'extremist fanatic' which all in itself is massively exaggerated. And you do this based ony my alleged intention to force my will onto others.
Based on that I can only assume that you didn't really read my original post... not even the introduction. Please, before you write a response to something that is not even there, read the actual post first. You are making a lot of very wrong assumptions.

@JeenaSun:
I am not crying, there is barely even a complaint in my post.
And I guess if you go as far as hating other human beings for playing a game with another set of goals than you do and reporting them for not adhering to your sense of how to play this is pretty much where our conversation ends. Enjoy the game though :)

@Aidames:
Regarding your first sentence ... yes it is unbelievable. To be unnecessary british about it, I am flabbergasted regarding how often that occurs.
I appreciate your response and I do very much respect people who take the time and effort to research their team and the enemy team to find a suitable playstyle every match. It is all in itself commendable.
Good Fortune to you too :) See you on the battlefield.

@WoodDaGawd:
Suit yourself :) I am not asking anybody to follow the code.

@kikid1999:
I actually like the game a lot. I do not perceive it as broken and I would appreciate if you stood on topic. There is plenty enough ledge-complain posts in the forum to express your frustration.

@Ski-nnyman:
Good enough :) That is already something I appreciate.

@MobiusN749:
It is so hard to draw that line though. It really depends on what is the most important part of the experience for you.
From a play-to-win philosophy standpoint you should do everything (within the scope and rules of the game) to achieve a 'VICTORY' screen. Personally for me that is not the most important or rewarding part of the multiplayer experience.

@IBryanFury:
Very inspiring.
It doesn't exactly explain why nobody should do it but it certainly explains how you go about it. Although it is less of a code and more of a play-to-win approach :)

@ZoB.Raymond:
Ahahahaah ^.^ It would be even better if the disclaimers actually helped :)

@Brave_Thunder:
I would agree that there is basically no comparison between actual war and this multiplayer game, but maybe that was meant as an in-game roleplay perspective :)

@Kernel.Fender.
No

@TheCadian_:
Thumbs up for the tolerance there :)
Also I don't even call it dishonorable (infact I do not really call anything dishonorable I only express it to be against my arbitrary code), I just offer it as a possibility to show some respect beyond the normal flow of play to my opponent.
Either way, see you on the battlefield!

Jobsalot
02-27-2017, 09:17 PM
This is a nice topic, a nice effort and it deserves praise regardless of whether it matches the opinion of others. It is in fact a rare thing nowadays and I find it applaudable because it takes courage to stick to your own convictions even if they make life a bit harder for yourself and maybe for others. It is actually the right thing to do, at least when it comes to the mandatory stuff. The optional stuff I can't quite agree on in all parts, though.

I personally don't follow this strictly. I have played by this code before, unbeknownst to what it actually was. Simply because my mommy and daddy raised me to be a good sportsman hehe :3

Jokes aside, I do sometimes feel the need for success and a reward in form of a victory is balm for the ego when you are down after a hard day at work or you just wanna blow off some steam. And if some guy has to go off a cliff, into spikes or get the sh+t ganked out of him/her, so be it :D

I will however welcome people of DCoH in matches, provided you clearly state as such and I will try to memorize its rules as best as can be. I find it most important that this game is fun. Fun for me, fun for you. Fun for everyone, if possible. I have no issue sticking to some rules for some matches so that should make both sides happy then, right?

FirestormX5
02-28-2017, 03:47 AM
wow a lot of drama here, I just came to win...respectfully ofcourse

Keltsiera
02-28-2017, 07:44 PM
First, why was this Thread unstickied.
Having something that furthers good and proper behavior
towards each other is a good thing to be the first thing to see in a FOrum in my opinion,
I follow this Code since the last Alpha I was allowed in and yes every once in a while it
might cost you a game because the the last surviving enemy player played well enough
to best your whole team. Sometimes nurturng a good well-behaved community might be a better
incentive then winning one single round of the game.
Now i do understand that people might not want to "cripple" themselves with a bothersome system like "honor" in a game called "For Honor"
And noone is forcing anyone to adhere to any code whatsoever. As regularily stated by the OP.
Ths Code is merely an incentive to shine a light on one specific interpretation of honor with the goal of improving the community
in the process.

Captain-Courage
03-08-2017, 11:12 AM
First, why was this Thread unstickied.

Because a subjective honor code only written for people to comfort themselves in their false good conscience (social desirability), self percieved sense of virtue and righteousness (understand : self esteem) and lack of environmental awareness and skills has nothing to do on sticky.

In computing, code is law. Always. Nothing can get over it, because that's the code that allows things to exist or not in a virtual environment But it's not your code we're talking about. And even the AI do 2 on 1. That's also why there is a 1 vs 1 mode. No external interference. Once again, the rule is written directly in the code of the game, not your subjective romanced vision of code of honor.

And I saw that some people even mentionned Charlemagne's code of Chivalry. God, are they that much uneducated about History ? Don't they know that this is this exact code that made Agincourt a slaughter for the French ?
That Tokugawa won Sekigahara precisely because Kobayakawa betrayed and the Bushido wasn't followed ? (the amount of romancing and fantasy towards East is even more over the top than for medieval times)

They would be the worst allies to have in a real battle ... No, ironically indeed, when you see the level of aggressivity they display when they enter in contact with sodium, when things don't go their way (insults, ragequits, swearing, sometimes even threaths ...), they would be the first to **** on said "code of honor".

bob333e
01-01-2018, 06:36 PM
Is this thing still active? hoping to revive it here. Much time has passed, and the community changed a lot. There might still be a chance for this to be a collective thing. I still support it.

BarbeQMichael
01-01-2018, 07:11 PM
Is this thing still active? hoping to revive it here. Much time has passed, and the community changed a lot. There might still be a chance for this to be a collective thing. I still support it.

As far as I've seen, yes. In duels, well there is not many ways of nohonor other than throwing to spikes/ledges, but in brawls too most players play it 2x1v1; not ganking after first kill or killing while executing, and no revenge using.

bmason1000
01-02-2018, 01:32 AM
Is this thing still active? hoping to revive it here. Much time has passed, and the community changed a lot. There might still be a chance for this to be a collective thing. I still support it.
Please, don't do that. People "saluting" all over the place and "GOOD FIGHT!" after every round is so damn annoying.

bob333e
01-02-2018, 04:01 AM
As far as I've seen, yes. In duels, well there is not many ways of nohonor other than throwing to spikes/ledges, but in brawls too most players play it 2x1v1; not ganking after first kill or killing while executing, and no revenge using.

Ah yeah, I've noticed this too, in the moments where I did Brawls, and mostly on Youtube videos. People popping Revenge then pausing the duel, letting Revenge wear off before resuming. And people doing 1v1s in Brawl. I've also had one instance today where I was up against a Shaman, we were in High Fort, he could have easily resorted to ledging but he abstained from it twice. You're right, I should have thought of it that way, that the Code of Honor is indirectly being treated with care amongst the community, even though this thread died long ago. Thanks for pointing that out.


Please, don't do that. People "saluting" all over the place and "GOOD FIGHT!" after every round is so damn annoying.

Hahhha no no... it's not like that. At most one emote before the fight, and a 'Good Fight' only if it was indeed a duel that didn't involve cheesing, ledging, or enviro kills. Heck, those who spam any sort of message post-duel are annoying; not just 'Good Fight'.

bmason1000
01-02-2018, 07:08 AM
Hahhha no no... it's not like that. At most one emote before the fight, and a 'Good Fight' only if it was indeed a duel that didn't involve cheesing, ledging, or enviro kills. Heck, those who spam any sort of message post-duel are annoying; not just 'Good Fight'.
One emote at the start is too many, one "good fight" is too many. I'm not talking about spamming at all.

nufrancis
01-02-2018, 10:34 AM
@LordKaterchen

Your philosophy is more like Daredevil (Marvel Comics Superhero). On the other hand I choose Punisher side.

I have my own code. I try to be honorable in Duel and Brawl. I never ledge in both modes and never gang in Brawl, Buuttttt... If the opponent start to gang me or ledge me then I will do the same. So eye for an eye.

In Dominion, Tribute, I will do anything to win (not with cheating of course). Because if I try to be honorable and the opponent choose not to (most of time), it will only give my team a disadvantage and losing in worst case. Besides, surviving a ganking situation is one proof that you are skillful in FH, ledging enemies proofs you are smart enough to use environtment for your advantage, these 2 things also proofs you are good in this game.