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Arm_slinger
01-08-2004, 10:06 AM
HOw the hell do you fly this bugger??? Was it a strict Boom and zoomer? Its turning abilities are crap so im guessing so.

And why is it so stally?

Arm_slinger
01-08-2004, 10:06 AM
HOw the hell do you fly this bugger??? Was it a strict Boom and zoomer? Its turning abilities are crap so im guessing so.

And why is it so stally?

robban75
01-08-2004, 10:28 AM
The Fw 190 is a fast bird with great firepower and agility. The Fw 190A-5 is good turner but it's hardly superior in turning to any bird in FB with the exeption of other 190's. Make sure to be higher than your enemy, if your not then make sure you are faster than him. The vertical is very much better than the horizontal. If you want to you could start flying the A-4 and A-5 and then jump into the D-9, you'll be amazed how fast she is!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

S 8
01-08-2004, 11:10 AM
...and if you get low and slow,flaps out (comabt or even take off) and start scissor manouver.They,mostly start following you but with 190´s roll rate you will do better ( do it gently though) and they,mostly disengage for a turn around or overshot you ,then take your snapshot at them....if you´re not shot down yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It works/ed for me when I fly,mostly A4-5/F8(mostly) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1073048715.jpg

WUAF_Boxer
01-08-2004, 11:18 AM
I'd like to know what you guys regard as the best varient of the 190 for FB. I'm still cloudy on the differences between them.

Hristo_
01-08-2004, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BOXER1X:
I'd like to know what you guys regard as the best varient of the 190 for FB. I'm still cloudy on the differences between them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fw 190A-5 mo st newbie friendly
Fw 190A-8 or A-9 most firepower
Fw 190D-9 most survivable, if you rely on its speed

VW-IceFire
01-08-2004, 02:09 PM
The D-9 is my favorite bird Luftwaffe bird. Its faster than the rest, has much more engine power and acceleration, and its agility is generally better. It does lack the outboard 20mm cannons so it requires good gunnery skills but its an excellent plane.

If you do get into a turning fight and you have to...really have to...then use combat flaps and have a light touch on the controls. When she feels like its going to snap roll back off and get some speed back. Its roll rate is great when you are defensive and need to make a break away from someone. Use speed and agility to your advantage to best a more manuverable aircraft.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

FW190fan
01-08-2004, 02:43 PM
You need to understand first and foremost that the FW190 is not for the classic "turn and burn" style of dogfighting.

It has a very high wing-loading, thus not condusive to *extended* turn fights, although it has very good initial corner velocity.

Your assets in the FW190 is that it is very fast, has the hardest hitting firepower of any piston-engine fighter in FB, and it has the best roll-rate among the elite fighters.

Set prop pitch to 100%, set rads to position 2 most of the time, and remember to hit the "W" key before you go above 100% throttle in emergency situations, and disengage it below 100%.

Of course, this is just scratching the surface...

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

JG26Red
01-08-2004, 02:49 PM
everyone has a diff way of using Boost, i.e. W key... i always turn it on before i turn on engine and leave it on all the time as i was told it only kicks in 101per and higher and turns off at 100per....???

WUAF_Boxer
01-08-2004, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the reply's guys.

TX-Zen
01-08-2004, 11:46 PM
I agree with the BnZ theory of the A series as many have posted here and elsewhere. Not much to add other than the obvious...try to stay high and stay fast, pick your targets, make a pass and extend to safety. (Keeping some clouds nearby doesn't hurt too much either, as long as they are pretty high).

For the D9 my tactics are evolving somewhat and I feel much more aggressive in it than I do in probably anything other plane.

When flying the D9, I don't stick to traditional BnZ rules anymore, I tend to fly much lower (1.5 to 4k as opposed to 3-6k), tend to fly much closer to furballs and accept the fact that flying lower will mean I will often get jumped at an E disadvantage.

My reasoning is pretty simple, I like the options I have in the Dora and it suits my style better than the A series does. I enjoy a good dogfight/E fight in the D9 and don't mind getting in the thick of things with it. The plane has so much power and outstanding high speed agility that it's quite enjoyable to 'break the FW fules' and get in there to mix it up.

I've said before the secret weapon of the Dora is the use of combat flaps...that and the scissors. These days I totally live by that philosophy and fly the plane in an agressive semi stall fighting manner. Am I drifting to the dark side of the Yak stall fighter? Am I trying to fool myself into thinking the Dora is a great low level plane?

I don't think I am doing either actually, but to me it just has that level of performance and is quite competitive down low if handled properly. Perhaps I am just warming up for the TA152 (which I find that I feel compelled to mention in just about every thread these days lol) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I say these somewhat contradictory things about the conventional wisdom of flying the FW series because the Dora is that interesting and seems to have that level of ability. Imho it is one of the most well rounded planes in the game and suffers no serious disadvantages except it's lack of air to ground ordinance.

It is at least average in just about everything and simply excels in a few key area's like roll rate and climb rate. Once you get used to the handling, the firepower and the forward visibility, the plane begins to show it's less obvious side and that is where the fun begins.



Simply because of it's great speed with the ability to rocket away from most pursuers, the Dora will perform well in BnZ if you can get used to the precision required from it's guns. This is a good time to remember your manual 100% prop pitch...at 3500 RPM the plane climbs like a Saturn V rocket.


The Dora has outstanding E fighting ability because of it's power and acceleration and this is what I think it's best suited for. The plane does lose E in tight turns but not as much as other FW versions, the issue is then when to turn and when to go vertical to get the best return on angles vs energy expended. This is the part that intrigues me the most about the plane and what has slowly caused me to put it in a category by itself seperate from the other 190's.

High speed turn radius is excellent, though obviously not as good as the dedicated TnB aircraft. The subtle point about this is that if you have built up a significant E advantage, you can pull some serious G's and convert that to a superior angles advantage. The Dora has very good high speed control and at certain speed brackets I think it outturns or comes close to outturning most fighters in the game...in essence it's corner velocity is in the high 400kph range compared to 250-350kph for the majority of TnB aircraft. It's not realistic to expect to stay at such a high speed if you are maneuvering aggressively, but with good flap use and some altitude you can usually continue to regain that speed, albeit while drifting lower instead of higher. This means that without doubt you cannot get down on the deck, but I've found that with about 1000 to 1500 meters of altitude I can fly the Dora almost as agressively as I like, compared to 3000 or higher for the other models.



For defensive I've said before how effective I think the scissors is and it's definately taking advantage of 3 key aspects of the plane simultaneously - acceleration, combat flaps and roll rate. I still don't claim this is an offensive move to defeat your enemy, but it's a way to keep accurate fire off you as you try and force your bandit to make a mistake, to stall or to overshoot. I love it partly because it's effective and partly because it's just a heck of a lot of fun to execute...I emphasise again that it takes a lot of practice but the results are worth it.



The Dora accelerates like mad in a dive and here is where the combat flaps really play a big role. The plane has so-so level turn rate but if you use diving turns with combat flaps extended the plane gets great angular rate at minimal loss of speed. On the upside of the turn going above the horizon I retract the flaps unless I am very close to pulling lead on the bandit. I keep them retracted for horizontal or climbing turns and try not to make those turns unless necessary, so my rule of thumb is to use them when scissoring or in a dive where I am pulling hard G's.

I find that a combination of high and low turns, scissors and level extensions seem to provide the best blend for taking advantage of the Dora's characteristics. It's hard to give a concrete example due to the infinite variables involved in a dogfight, but the general idea is a form of E fighting with one foot across the TnB threshold. (this is also why I haven't completed tracks of E fighting or scissors...too many darned variables, hard to nail the essence of the move down so that it is clearly demonstrated. Maybe I need to just lay down some tracks of how I fly the plane for comparisons sake)

Pure E fighting tends to keep the bandit in your rear quarter with you somewhat higher, you continue to maneuver until you have a decisive E advantage and then convert that to an angular advantage that puts you on his 6 or allows you to drop in for BnZ passes. The style I use is is more oriented toward closer ranged turning with an eye on maneuvering aggressively enough to burn off the bandits E while taking advantage of the Dora's ability to regain E lost during manuevers but at all times I am looking for the advantage. If I can begin BnZing I will, if I can extend and reverse to come back head on I will also...everything is based on what I think I can make happen at the moment while keeping an eye out for other bandits hopping into the fight.



I can't say enough about prop pitch either...100% manual is best way to get the most out of a climb or level acceleration but you have to keep an eye on your engine temperature. When the overheat warning comes on you have a little bit of leeway before anything serious happens, but you never know how long you will be engaged for and I hate to cook my engine, so I drop power on a regular basis to keep the engine cool. A subtle point about the Dora is that she doesn't maneuver well at less than full throttle...so don't keep the engine hot if you don't need the performance, don't use full power unless you actively engaged and/or fighting for your life. This is also a hard thing to give an accurate description of but generally I will fly on 95% power and auto pitch until I am engaging. Radiator stays on auto unless I need scorching speed or unless I have run too hot for a while, then I will either close it or open it completely as required. Any chance I get to drop power and cool the engine I take without question...engine management is critical to success.



I've been flying the Dora for a while now and these are some of the aspects of the plane that I have come to appreciate. Part of it is how my flying style makes me use the Dora and part of it is how the D9 has changed my flying style because of it's performance. I do not fly the plane perfectly and sometimes even I wonder if I am using it incorrectly here and there, but on the whole the plane has given me more enjoyment than probably any other aspect of the sim. I'm inclined to think that I am on the right track though and with time my style will refine even further. Hopefully I will get to the point of being on top of my game and flying to the limits of my abilities but there is no doubt that it has been the Dora that has really shown me what air to air combat in this sim is all about. In many ways I consider it to be the perfect fighter...it is good but not uber, has strengths and weaknesses and must be flown with care. It is a finely balance plane because you can't be reckless, but if you are aggressive and pay attention to her handling you can succeed in almost any circumstances, with the usual requirement of having a bit of luck on your side.

S!

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX-Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM Only)
TX-OC3 Server 209.163.147.69:21000
http://www.txsquadron.com/library/20031218144359_Zensig2.jpg (http://www.txsquadron.com)

robban75
01-09-2004, 06:18 AM
VERY well put Zen!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

p1ngu666
01-09-2004, 06:39 AM
good read zen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
my fave is the f8, for bombing online its the best i think, u got just enuff speed to peg it after dive bombing

nicolas10
01-09-2004, 07:48 AM
Ahem...

Did someone say Ta 152? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Nic

The first official D12 whiner!

BS87
01-11-2004, 10:43 PM
the 190s generally require you to use high-speed gunnery, instead of TnB gunnery, this i have learned. One thing i have learned about High-speed gunnery, is to always fire BEFORE you THINK you need to. Chances are, your shots will hit alot more. Beasides, its it better to put some rounds infront of the plane, and have a chance of it hitting, than to put them behind the plane, and have no chance at all.

GoodKn1ght
01-12-2004, 01:35 AM
watch ur prop pitch in highspeed dives in the dora, you cant leave it at 100, the engine will blow out. bring it back to 85.

I fly agressively with all the fws like zen said i only need 1500 , thats enough to outdive someone and run to safety (reverse roll and pull up). i rely a lot on my gunnery and (sometimes) wingman. gutted is a noob and cant be trusted. im also really good at jinking and im used to having someone firing on my six. you get used to it after you fly the 190 for a while.

you have to be a good shot too, it helps if you cripple ur opponent in the wing on high angle shots then feel free to turn behind them. if you explode thier plane, thats even better.
fw190 has plenty of ammo too, ive brought down 9 planes online in one flight before. Ive started using 150 convergence. if you play without a cockpit i suggest higher.

i frequently cut throttle behind an opponent and drop combat flaps to pepper the snot out of them. (p47s are your friends) i know i shouldnt burn my E usually, but i have confidence in my gunnery. work at it until you are also confident.

i think there are 3 more threads about how to fly the 190 floating around somewhere, so its pretty much all been said before.
-gk

bazzaah2
01-12-2004, 04:21 AM
good read TX-Zen - thanks for that.

I tried the A5 online for first time the other night and must say that, while I got shot down a few times, there were a few time when even Yak3 couldn't get near me and got a good stang pilot to overhsoot with scissors.

I'm starting (slowly) to get the 190 and think it a fine plane, slow to yield its charms perhaps but worth the effort.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Lunix
01-12-2004, 09:35 AM
WTG Zen. He wrote the book, ok. All I can add is that it is very fulfilling to fly a 190 well and that it really is a team plane. 2 people who know what they are doing in this beast are a force to be reconed with. 4 is a reds worst nightmare.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

FMJ3G
01-18-2004, 05:02 PM
Great discussion on the FW-190 - a great fighter that has "the good the bad and the ugly" in one neat package.

Cajun76
01-18-2004, 06:46 PM
Wow, Zen, really good stuff. I think some of the things I've learned in the ThunderSlug http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif could be applied to the D9, apparently. I think I'll try it out again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TX-Zen
01-18-2004, 08:33 PM
I would think that the P47 should be flow more like the Antons...you would know better than I would on that concept since I don't get much stick time in the jug. (but I like it alot!)

I have to caution about the D9 tactics in anything other than a very fast climbing fighter...I'm crazy when I fly it, throw caution to the wind and just go balls at it. Therefore I might not be the wisest person to follow when it comes to pure doctrine, my tactics work in the D9, I don't necessarily recommend them in anything else.

Just trying to show a possible different mindset when flying the FW, not trying to write the manual http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX-Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM Only)
TX-OC3 Server 209.163.147.69:21000
http://www.txsquadron.com/library/20031218144359_Zensig2.jpg (http://www.txsquadron.com)

Cajun76
01-18-2004, 09:05 PM
Heh, that's why I said "some" of the things. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But the Jug is the first fighter I've really BnZ with. Before, I used to fly the La7. Quite the dfferance in styles, as I flew the La-7 with TnB tactics and with Yo-Yo's, along with some BnZ. I had recognized that some things, like level acceleration and non-zoom climb would not apply, but some others will, or I'm already doing. Check out my post in the most recent P-47 tip thread. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm a nut!

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
01-18-2004, 09:05 PM
P47 is a different beast from the Antons and the Dora because of a more sluggish roll rate in the D-27 and even in the D-22 and D-10 you cannot compair to the 190's roll rate. However...pilots who succeed in Antons can adapt their style to P-47's fairly easily in most occasions. The P-47 has the advantage of a massive spread of firepower....putting guns on the target is that much harder in some instances and easier in others. I fly the P-47, P-51, Yak-9U, and FW190D-9 quite a bit...I find different tactics and styles for each of them but I can't say I'm exceptionally better in one over the other. At best I'd put it at a tie in the P-51 and D9...but I think the D9 has a definate edge in most places...I too have been taking the D9 into more stall fighting. Its an agressive plane if you have the experience and instinct to know when she's about to roll over on her back in a stall.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

BS87
01-18-2004, 09:44 PM
Goodknight, there was no need to bash gutted... In my opinion he has excelent gunnery skills. If you dont have anything constructive to say, leave that part out of the post.

Nice read, Zen.

GoodKn1ght
01-19-2004, 01:19 AM
im in jg53 with him and he knows im a joke. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
gutted is hands down one of the best pilots out there.
"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"

TheGozr
01-19-2004, 01:42 AM
I like the fw190 A8 it's a good baby
The first thing i did to be able to manuver well in it it's to lower your sens in the ingame joystick input setup ( play with it a find your good smooth speed).

Of course if you attemp to fly the fw's for awhile.
It's a plane that you hate and learn to love it.

DOn't forget like in racing we say "smooth is the key..."

-GOZR
"TheMotorheads" All for One and One for All (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

BS87
01-19-2004, 09:23 AM
Ahh, ok goodknight, thought you were bashing him. Guess my sarcasm meter needs new batteries

Lunix
01-20-2004, 12:29 AM
Funny all the talk of P47's in this thread. One of my very favorite fights is me flying a P47 vs a 190. Its usually a very long intensly mental battle.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg