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View Full Version : Thoughts on guard breaks...



UltimateKuro
01-29-2017, 10:06 PM
I love the idea, play style, and story of the game but that all gets ruined when I play against someone who spams guard breaks.

I know you have a small window to counter but my fingers and my mind should be ready to block, attack, and dodge. Countering is important but the fight is boring and going to go on forever if all you're going to do is get ready to counter a guard break. Not only do some heroes have unfair guard breaks (like the viking that can eat half your stamina and push you off, to the ground, or against a wall) but anyone can spam it.

My thoughts are that you should have to aim in the direction their aiming to pull off a guard break and if you don't than your opponent can just block any attack you throw after ward (not giving you a free hit on them) or you lose a lot of stamina. That's just ideas on the top of my head, if those don't work then whatever just add a cool down to guard breaks.

If you don't agree to the first idea at least agree to cool downs, no one should have to train just to handle someone with little to no skill.

Also this might be me but i'd like my health and stamina to be in a corner or something like dark souls because it's so small that it's easy to lose track of it.

Ryumanjisen
01-29-2017, 10:23 PM
Guard breaks are perfectly fine, and they are necessary for the balance of the game. You need a tool to beat someone who only blocks, as it is in any fighting game. They are pretty easy to counter, as light attacks (and depends of the startup of the heavy attack) beat them.

The only thing I'll add, as suggeste in other thread, would make them cost some stamina to perform. Not too much, just a significant amount.

TCTF_SWAT
01-29-2017, 10:43 PM
Guard breaks are perfectly fine, and they are necessary for the balance of the game. You need a tool to beat someone who only blocks, as it is in any fighting game. They are pretty easy to counter, as light attacks (and depends of the startup of the heavy attack) beat them.

The only thing I'll add, as suggeste in other thread, would make them cost some stamina to perform. Not too much, just a significant amount.

Throw range and the reward for them is pretty high for a low risk move.

Ryumanjisen
01-29-2017, 10:52 PM
The reward is, basically, the same thing you're risking: a guaranteed light attack hit.

TCTF_SWAT
01-29-2017, 10:57 PM
The reward is, basically, the same thing you're risking: a guaranteed light attack hit.

You get free heavies from it. Most characters can. The raider and the warlod I think are the only classes that can't.

Ryumanjisen
01-29-2017, 11:04 PM
Nope, you can block a heavy after a guard break, as far as I've experienced. I can assure you that Wardens, Nobushi and Kensei (the three classes I most play) can't get a heavy after a guard break. And I've blocked most heavy attacks after a GB, when I'm hit is because I was blocking the wrong way.

That being said, I suppose there can be some fast heavy that can be linked after a GB, but somehow I'm not sure that's possible.

TCTF_SWAT
01-29-2017, 11:06 PM
Oh you can. Done it many times and vice versa.

Captain.Weegee
01-29-2017, 11:41 PM
Guardbreaks are just broken or bad designed... you cant block them allways off = just hit - guardbreak / hit - guardbreak/ hit - guardbreak ... repeat!

It is unblockable if you get a hit or someone attacks you with a heavy attack and you block the attack normal, it should be used to stop extremly defensive players but also you can use it to play so da,m aggressive, thats bulls***

Just lock it for 1 second after you hit your enemy or something.

And a question: Why the hell can some characters use "aimbot flying chase guardbreak" while the others have to touch the enemy first? I mean they slide to you with their guardbreak, like some characters have this ridiculous sliding chase attack too...

Ryumanjisen
01-29-2017, 11:41 PM
We need the frame data of this game...

TCTF_SWAT
01-29-2017, 11:50 PM
techiing should reset back to neutral and the person who got teched shouldn't be punished for it.

Oupyz
01-30-2017, 12:00 AM
Guard attack counter need more time if there's a lagg u can't counter the guard break , they need to work on it better + mouse responsiveness

blobathehut
01-30-2017, 03:18 AM
I think GB works 100% fine as is. I almost never get beaten by someone who spams GB.
A few ways to bet it.
1. Light attack almost always hits first and stops it.
2. Dodge works almost every time.
3. Counter it. IT can be a little hard a first but if you Spam the GB button as soon as you see them start up then you should be able to get it.

TCTF_SWAT
01-30-2017, 03:36 AM
You can't dodge GB's. Only rolls have immunity to GB's. If you "dodged" a GB then you were out of range to begin with.

Kintoun
01-30-2017, 05:01 AM
We need the frame data of this game...

Would be nice, but not required. Ask what info you're seeking. Many of us did testing and generally know the frame data.e.g. which classes get what after a guard break or wall throw. Someone even tested different guard stances and their frame data. A Warden can get a heavy top attack off a wall throw when in left guard stance but cannot when in top or right guard stance prior to the throw. Similar timings with Raiders unblockable after carry.

IMO guard break is perfect except the window for counter guard breaking needs to be a hair larger. It's simply not reactable unless you expect it coming.

TCTF_SWAT
01-30-2017, 05:03 AM
Would be nice, but not required. Ask what info you're seeking. Many of us did testing and generally know the frame data.e.g. which classes get what after a guard break or wall throw. Someone even tested different guard stances and their frame data. A Warden can get a heavy top attack off a wall throw when in left guard stance but cannot when in top or right guard stance prior to the throw. Similar timings with Raiders unblockable after carry.

IMO guard break is perfect except the window for counter guard breaking needs to be a hair larger. It's simply not reactable unless you expect it coming.

Nah, just reduce the reward for landing a GB (this excludes wall stuns or kncokdowns).

wvila
01-30-2017, 11:04 AM
You dont want to get guard break. Then do this.

Attack. And dont guard at all

wvila
01-30-2017, 11:10 AM
I agree. Stop asking for changes so that it works for slow fingers to react.

just predict your opponents action then act. If your wrong then try next time you should still have enough health.

L0k3d
01-30-2017, 03:23 PM
Guard attack counter need more time if there's a lagg u can't counter the guard break , they need to work on it better + mouse responsiveness
^ this

Altair_Snake
01-30-2017, 08:17 PM
You get free heavies from it. Most characters can. The raider and the warlod I think are the only classes that can't.
Some can land side heavies, but not tops. The Warlord, strangely, can land a free top, but not sides. And some can land any.

And don't remember the Raider.

Altair_Snake
01-30-2017, 08:32 PM
Am I crazy, or did a thread with a short GB guide just got deleted?

TCTF_SWAT
01-30-2017, 08:40 PM
Some can land side heavies, but not tops. The Warlord, strangely, can land a free top, but not sides. And some can land any.

And don't remember the Raider.

I don't think that should be a thing unless it's a wall stun or a knockdown. A GB should only really allow a throw, one light attack (no autos either). That's the reward.

That way they can keep GB spammy but the reward for it is small.

I see it as if the GB counter window was increased then it would make turtling stronger due easier window breaks. If kept the way it is now then you can still slip it in but your reward isn't huge unless it's a environmental hazard or wall.

That way out in the open getting GB wouldn't spell doom all the time. And rewards better positioning and thought process.

Captain.Weegee
01-31-2017, 02:01 PM
how does it works really if you'll use the GB and your enemy too?
Sometimes nobody nothing happend, but other times i used my GB just 0,5 seconds later than him and my GB worked while his GB was got blocked(it was a real GB not just the counter).

Altair_Snake
01-31-2017, 03:14 PM
how does it works really if you'll use the GB and your enemy too?
Sometimes nobody nothing happend, but other times i used my GB just 0,5 seconds later than him and my GB worked while his GB was got blocked(it was a real GB not just the counter).

Maybe his whiffed?

And it could also be a lag compensation paradox.

Captain.Weegee
01-31-2017, 03:23 PM
Maybe his whiffed?

And it could also be a lag compensation paradox.

Oh god i do not hope so :( the gameplay seems allway so smoothly, it would be bad if you cant see if it lagging or not.

So the Warlord cant GB through an attack? (or it is an ability of the shieldusers?):confused:

Just saw a video of myself, where a Peacekeeper attacks me , but i was able to GB him fast through the attack, if the lags are so inconspicuous... then i am not wondering why the things with GB are so problematic, you think allways "wft what wrong with that combat system?!"

Altair_Snake
01-31-2017, 03:49 PM
GB can beat a strong atatck early in the animation.

Captain.Weegee
01-31-2017, 03:58 PM
GB can beat a strong atatck early in the animation.

Ah damn, you're right! She started an heavy attack, thnak you very much.
But damn i dont like this option, attack should beat GB allways :(

Altair_Snake
01-31-2017, 11:56 PM
That is how it works on Dead or Alive. Grabs simply whiff if the opponent is attacking. I actualy thought GBscould beat light attacks,t oo, if they caught early enough. So, now I'm OK with the "compromise" of having light attacks always win, but having heavies depending on timing.