PDA

View Full Version : Some questions about Orochi and Peacekeeper



Seraphid
01-29-2017, 02:54 AM
Well, I post this because after playing like two hours vs Orochi as a Peacekeeper, I can't see any reason to play it. The Orochi is like a better version of the Peacekeeper. I will resume it in some points.

-The moving atack is faster
-Have more range.
-The evasion attack to the left or right is faster, can't be blocked by a guard break and is easy to follow up with a combo
-They can easily punish you for fleeing, since they have an insane range with the withdraw attack.
-Their charge attack can't be dodged to left or right, since it is homing on you.


Beyond these, I can't see anything where Peacekeeper is greater or anything she can do that Orochi can't. The only thing that I see that Peacekeeper is greater I think, is that she can heavily punish you with a ward break, what will result in maybe half square more of damage than Orochi. I'm a level 30 Peacekeeper (1 Reputation) and I only want to get the point of this, so if someone can explain me why I'm wrong or any deffect to take advantage of, I will be so grateful.

Altair_Snake
01-29-2017, 12:14 PM
Blocked by a Guard Break?

I haven't played much with either. But I have the impresison that the Peacekeeper can deal mroe damage off of guard breaks, specially if the opponen is low on health or if she is revenge mode (and perhaps also if the is a wall, but I'm not sure on this one). You can double stab, kick, then land a top heavy + the extra stab. I also suspect that her heavies deal effectively more damage, due to the extra stab. And I think her fast attacks are faster than the Orochi, though with a little less range. And she has a sprinting GB, that works just like her normal (awesome) GB. I intend to try her out, if I have the time, before the beta ends.

Seraphid
01-29-2017, 02:03 PM
Blocked by a Guard Break?

What I want to say is that if the opponent attacks you with a light attack, you can sidestep and then stab him, but if he tries a guard break instead of an attack and you make a sidestep, you will get grabbed, while Orochi already starts the attack and punish the opponent for trying to guard break.


I also suspect that her heavies deal effectively more damage, due to the extra stab.

Sincerely, I don't feel like is any longer possible to land his heavy strikes without counting the stabs when you make a sidestep or a gap closer step. I just keep getting blocked no matter how I try to prepare them with the combos. The only way to land them is from behind. Another thing that makes this so bad is that since you can't land them, you get it so difficult if you want to execute anybody. If there's any way to make them easier to land, I will be grateful to hear that.


And I think her fast attacks are faster than the Orochi, though with a little less range

I think this is not true, after the long fight I had yesterday, we hit at the same time I think, except after landing a combo on him, where for some reason, he always attacked first. This with light attacks. Anyway, if he makes his sidestep move, he will hit you and you will fail. He also has de feint where he makes a backstep and then he moves forward to attack.

Cast_1
01-30-2017, 02:03 PM
I had the same experience as you, then i managed to master the deflection mechanic, and i never lost to orochis again, usually i just didnt get hit. You go aggresive, and bait out their dodge and hit mechanic. Then you deflect it and do the light attack bleed combo you get off of the deflect, wich no one ive played against manage to parry, block, or dodge cause its so freaking fast, and has insane tracking. I would argue the opposite of you acutally, why play orochi, when the peacekeeper is the perfect counter. You hit faster basically with the peacekeeper.

Seraphid
01-30-2017, 02:43 PM
I had the same experience as you, then i managed to master the deflection mechanic, and i never lost to orochis again, usually i just didnt get hit. You go aggresive, and bait out their dodge and hit mechanic. Then you deflect it and do the light attack bleed combo you get off of the deflect, wich no one ive played against manage to parry, block, or dodge cause its so freaking fast, and has insane tracking. I would argue the opposite of you acutally, why play orochi, when the peacekeeper is the perfect counter. You hit faster basically with the peacekeeper.

It's not about countering him or not. I'm just saying that he is better at every single thing. An Orochi can also counter another Orochi because he also features the deflection mechanic. Furthermore, he doesn't even have to time it since he can simply use his sidestep attack and evade it for sure and punish you with a combo including a guardbreak attack.

So I still don't get the point of playing Peacekeeper when you can play Orochi and make everything that she does with lower risk and more rewards.

Cast_1
01-30-2017, 02:47 PM
Ohh, it was in my answer, and its quite simple. Faster animations/attacks. In other words, the better you aree, the better the peacekeeper is compared to the orochi, at least in my experience.

Seraphid
01-30-2017, 04:40 PM
Ohh, it was in my answer, and its quite simple. Faster animations/attacks. In other words, the better you aree, the better the peacekeeper is compared to the orochi, at least in my experience.

After playing +15 Hours with Peacekeeper I can tell you that's false. Peacekeeper doesn't attack faster than Orochi. But well, imagine is true. What's the point of being faster and working better vs one character when you can be highly better vs the 8 characters remaining?

Cast_1
01-30-2017, 05:12 PM
I can agree with you there. Although for med, i played the peacekeeper just better then all the other classes, and murdered everything when i mastered all the combos. Im pretty sure the class that will be best is 90% subjective, in other words, the class you just play the best, although if your best class is not an assasin you will just fail from what ive experienced, as they are just plain better then the other classes.

Peligrad
02-01-2017, 01:21 PM
In my experience, Orochi and Peacekeeper are on about equal footing as assassins but Orochi has much stronger defense.

Orochi seems to have the mobility of peacekeeper, the ability to assault and pressure like beserker, and the defensive capability of nobushi but all combined into one.

I find good Orochis to be nearly untouchable because of this.

I sincerely hope they address this before launch.

Peacekeeper's only advantage is that her GB is more punishing. But honestly classes where you expect GBs for days I find easy because you just set more priority on GB. It's honestly pretty easy to just always expect the GB.

ZuivrZilvr
02-01-2017, 03:51 PM
Funny, imo Orochi is really quite average and a weaker version of the peacekeeper. All they seem to have over the peacekeeper are riptide strike and storm rush, both of which are cool looking useless abilities. They are simply way too easy to counter. I hardly ever lose against an Orochi (I main Warden, but my first try on Warlord I was wrecking (relatively) high level Orochis even harder), but Peacekeepers give me loads of trouble. The triple stab is madly powerful, and at this point almost no one seems able to actually block the stabs.

If anything, the Peacekeeper will be getting a slight nerf. You can count on that honestly. In terms of nerfs I would expect the following:

Warlord: very likely
Peacekeeper: quite possibly
Nobushi: unlikely

I'd be very surprised if any others will get any nerfs any time soon, especially Orochi.

Altair_Snake
02-02-2017, 02:33 AM
Funny, imo Orochi is really quite average and a weaker version of the peacekeeper. All they seem to have over the peacekeeper are riptide strike and storm rush, both of which are cool looking useless abilities. They are simply way too easy to counter. I hardly ever lose against an Orochi (I main Warden, but my first try on Warlord I was wrecking (relatively) high level Orochis even harder), but Peacekeepers give me loads of trouble. The triple stab is madly powerful, and at this point almost no one seems able to actually block the stabs.

If anything, the Peacekeeper will be getting a slight nerf. You can count on that honestly. In terms of nerfs I would expect the following:

Warlord: very likely
Peacekeeper: quite possibly
Nobushi: unlikely

I'd be very surprised if any others will get any nerfs any time soon, especially Orochi.
Did you figure out how blocking teh stabs work? Is it possible to block all of them easily?
_________

BTW, I think after landing most combos, the attacker ends up at frame disadvantage. So it is ot surprising that the PK gets hit first in that scenario. It also doesn't mean she is slower than the Orochi. It's atcually hard to test their speed. One way would be to figure would be to figure out an even set up (when in a mirror match the attacks would hit ta the same time/clash). Then you could compare different classes (or different attacks) to see who's faster.

BTW, the Nobushi seems to have a ocmbo that leaves her at frame advantage, but I'm not sure. Her tripple light seems like a good set up for her retreating light.

yoloswaggerboi
02-02-2017, 05:40 AM
well, i post this because after playing like two hours vs orochi as a peacekeeper, i can't see any reason to play it. The orochi is like a better version of the peacekeeper. I will resume it in some points.

-the moving atack is faster
-have more range.
-the evasion attack to the left or right is faster, can't be blocked by a guard break and is easy to follow up with a combo
-they can easily punish you for fleeing, since they have an insane range with the withdraw attack.
-their charge attack can't be dodged to left or right, since it is homing on you.


Beyond these, i can't see anything where peacekeeper is greater or anything she can do that orochi can't. The only thing that i see that peacekeeper is greater i think, is that she can heavily punish you with a ward break, what will result in maybe half square more of damage than orochi. I'm a level 30 peacekeeper (1 reputation) and i only want to get the point of this, so if someone can explain me why i'm wrong or any deffect to take advantage of, i will be so grateful.

1.Wrong,peacekeeper is faster overall.
2.Only by a little which doesn´t really matter since you can move faster + your jump attack has almost double the range of orochi´s dash attacks.
3.Wrong,peacekeepers evasion attack is faster and more stupid since you can follow up with an unblockable heavy attack which applies bleed everytime you do it.
4.True but fleeing is always a stupid idea.
5.Wrong,it can be dodged/deflected/parried/blocked.I´ve seen it.I´ve done it.It´s possible.

Expect peacekeeper to be nerfed.

SethUnleashed
02-02-2017, 07:39 AM
peacekeeper doesnt need a nerf, people just need to learn how to guardbreak-counter, parry and feint (which most people didnt during the closed beta).

as for the OP:

orochi is one of the easiest enemies for a peacekeeper, as the orochi is pretty telegraphed and his attacks are rather simple to avoid.

his charge attack can be blocked, parried, dodged AND deflected (tried it all, done it all) and its easy to see coming too.

you dont "block by a guardbreak", you parry his side-attacks and follow up with a guardbreak.

this is yet another 100% "learn to play" problem, as almost all whine threads in this forum ...

Peligrad
02-02-2017, 07:26 PM
Charged attack? Orochi doesn't have a charged attack!

I swear some of these people are playing a different game...

Wait storm rush? Storm rush is not a charge attack. Go please learn the vocabulary of this game and figure out what a charge attack is.

Are you seriously saying Orochi is bad because storm rush can be countered?

Are you really that daft!?

You aren't supposed to be using storm rush as a gap closer anyway unless you have your enemy severely off balance.

Storm rush, by design, pulls you out of typical melee range and then instantly gap closes and strike your enemy with a side heavy. You are supposed to use it to avoid an attack and then retaliate.

If you are spamming it expecting it to be unblockable then you clearly don't understand how to play this game...

Also... any person who says you can beat another character by just doing 1 thing... is bad and plays bad players and you should not listen to their advice ever.

Any half-decent player is going to adapt very quickly the moment you start relying on one tactic.

Anyone who says, "Just use (insert tactic) and you'll never lose to (insert class)" is a noob and has low MMR and hence only plays noobs.

crazybread101
02-07-2017, 06:46 AM
Anyone who says, "Just use (insert tactic) and you'll never lose to (insert class)" is a noob and has low MMR and hence only plays noobs.

I love you @Peligrad you summed up my feelings about every video game ever perfectly

Oh and more on topic as a player who's played mostly orochi in the beta and alpha I honestly struggle more against peacekeeper as an orochi than any other class its because of several things some simple some complex for instance I misjudge their range on the dive because it doesn't always match their animations also I'm used to playing a counter style offense as is intended for him and the peacekeeper is one of the fastest characters and their recovery time will allow him/her to still block my attacks which moral of the story you may not be used to that speed and it may **** with you because the assassin classes are so quick that your usual tactics may fail personally I find the berserker is the easiest to telegraph but I've also got more playing time against him just play and you'll develop tactics combos and strategies that will make you better

Yggdrasil_67
02-07-2017, 08:36 PM
-the evasion attack to the left or right is faster, can't be blocked by a guard break and is easy to follow up with a combo
It's the same for all assassins. If you initiate a gard cancel on them while they are evading, it won't work since it will connect while they are doing their side dash attack. It must be done before they evade. The thing is, most classes have different startup frames for their grab.

-Their charge attack can't be dodged to left or right, since it is homing on you.
But they are amazingly easy to parry anyway.

Peacekeepers have that three-stab attack on grab that deal bleeding damage and also bleed damage on deflect and after a dodge attack IIRC. I think it's fairly balanced.
Other than that, what yoloswaggerboi said.

feuerundblut
02-08-2017, 03:45 PM
The peacekeeper has by far the farest reach with her evades of the game and they costs basically nothing. And besides, her evades are crazy good openers. So even if the oroshis have faster ones, if the peacekeeper initiates the fight and keep on harassing, oroshis are dead meat.

But then, I guess it's more a question of playstyle, really. I tried oroshi too but honestly, nothing as good as stabbing the guts with a bloody dagger.

Edit: PK is nerfed by the way. Her bleeds will get 75% effect reduction on stabs.