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View Full Version : Please Revert Deflecting (sort of)



theevilgood
01-29-2017, 02:49 AM
Okay, so before anyone decides to just read the title and leave an angry comment: I'm not asking for Deflections to be fully reverted to Alpha levels.

So hear me out. I've played this game almost nonstop since the Beta dropped and I kept my ear to the ground during the Alpha just so I could keep myself in the loop. The Orochi's deflection in Alpha was absolutely ludicrous, so I understand the need to nerf the window and the fact that they're testing the waters in terms of remapping the ability into a dodge rather than a block.

However, in my opinion, they need to remap the Deflect back to the right stick. The maneuver was clearly intended for stationary characters, so often as the peacekeeper I find myself dodging into an attack (due to poor timing on my own part) or being struck by attacks which I thought were timed properly. The window is often rather inconsistent, perhaps due to the inherent P2P lag. There is simply no reason to deflect rather than parry at this point. The parry is simply a superior move with a much, much better balance of risk-reward. Compare this to the dodge-based deflection, which if mistimed can cost you upwards of 75% of your health. And what do you get for your troubles? A counterattack which can combo into, what, 25% health on some of the lighter characters?

Now I'm no fool. I've seen the videos. I know how that stuff used to be. I'm not asking to widen the window or anything which will re-break the assassins back into Alpha Orochi territory. But I simply can't justify deflecting in the current build of the game when parrying is a much better decision on every front. Yeah there's a lot about this game that I still need to learn. Yeah I'm still working on my timing for a lot of stuff. But while I can chalk up getting overwhelming by attack barrages to needing to learn my options better, I simply cannot overlook how useless the deflect maneuver is currently.

I'm looking for some input here. Am I totally off my rocker in suggesting that this be remapped to RS? If anyone's got any pointers for how to reliably make these come out that I'm more than receptive. I just can't see these being anywhere near useful enough to risk eating a hit when I can just parry and follow up with an LA string (into dagger madness, because I personally play Peacekeeper)

kID_is_onLINE
01-29-2017, 03:04 AM
I totally agree with you. I went into a custom game duel with a level one bot warden, guess how many times I deflected, even with perfect timing? ZERO! it's absurd!

Altair_Snake
01-29-2017, 12:10 PM
I totally agree with you. I went into a custom game duel with a level one bot warden, guess how many times I deflected, even with perfect timing? ZERO! it's absurd!
Are you serious?

theevilgood
01-29-2017, 07:54 PM
I think if the problem were as simple as timing then I wouldn't be making this thread.

The deflect being tied to something which commits you wholeheartedly in a direction, and an action which requires that you take your thumb off the ever-important joystick absolutely kills the risk-reward for deflections. I play on PS4, so obviously PC players aren't going to have this particular problem (though as I understand it you guys have an entirely different set of control problems).

I understand the idea that deflecting is now more of a risk thanks to having to commit to it rather than simply flick it and probably still get a block even if you don't deflect. But to me it just very clearly WASN'T intended to be that way, and was nerfed a little bit too hard as a reaction to problems with the Orochi. This is, of course, despite the fact that (imo) the one of biggest problems for Orochi (Peacekeepers) wasn't in the Alpha iirc.

I could also air out my many, many, many complaints with Dominion mode in this thread since I'm fresh off of a ridiculously salty loss streak thanks to P2P lag and team mates slapping me in the spine while I'm trying to stab people. But I think we'll save that for another day

Kintoun
01-30-2017, 04:57 AM
With the pool of players we have now, parry > deflect for reasons OP stated. However post-launch I feel everything will balance out and here is why.

Parry reward > deflect reward. Deflect risk > parry risk. However the counter to parry is feint (which basically nobody is using since they have less than 24h experience). If a player begins feinting against a parry user, suddenly deflect risk < parry risk. Imagine whiffing a heavy because the attacker feinted. They're going to attack from a different direction and get a hit. Imagine whiffing a deflect (dodge) because the attacker feinted. Much lower risk since you're dodging, and on assassins you can even attack mid dodge when you notice the whiff.

If deflect was made "too easy" with nearly zero risk, game play slows down and becomes too defensive. I believe this is why deflect was changed.

SethUnleashed
01-30-2017, 08:43 AM
i've tested this stuff a LOT too the last few days and i have to agree with OP... either deflect needs to work differently or the opportunity window needs to be a TINY bit bigger.

against AI, deflects can be done with a consistency of at least 80% or more, but against humans, it feels almost impossible (even if the connection seems to be green and stable from both players.

also, the deflect reward is laughably small... i can chain attack-combos together that take 50%+ of an enemies health without deflecting, but a deflect counter itself only does about the same damage as a light attack (or in orochis case his heavy counter equals about a heavy attack), basically it gives you a light or heavy hit (the heavy one not even being guaranteed to land) and interrupts the enemies combo (unless you are stupid enough to use the orochi's heavy deflect against someone midcombo, then youre counter will take too long before they hit you again).

the window is so damn small, that the benefit of deflecting is soooo small, that a parry will always be the safer way, or just use dodges in general and chain them into side-step-attacks.

i have also only encountered a SINGLE player during the whole weekend that actually used faint (which probably will change when ppl play more) but against those players deflecting becomes even more useless, as you need to react to the feint AND time the deflect, which just isnt going to happen consistently (esp not with the slightes lag)

Cast_1
01-30-2017, 01:48 PM
Didnt play the alpha, so I cannot comment on that. That said thouh. I absolutly loved deflect, i played the crap outta the peacekeeper, and with deflect i just murderer all other assasins, they never ever hit me. And the ultra fast light bleed attack you get after made it way to easy. Maybe your used to a different deflect? But i did not find it in any way hard to perform.

SethUnleashed
01-30-2017, 02:43 PM
after doing some more thinking and reading i think i might have a clue why it felt so inconsistent, but beta is over, so testing will have to wait for 2 weeks :)

Xanthus730
01-30-2017, 05:13 PM
Deflect isn't necessarily more risky than parry. If you finding you're dodging into attacks, that's because your deflect is too late. When you're going for deflects, error on the side of dodging early. An early dodge will almost always still get you a dodge, and if you get the timing, you'll get the deflect. Late = you get hit. Parry is basically the opposite, it seems. A late parry = you probably still get the block. Early = you get hit.

Altair_Snake
01-31-2017, 03:22 PM
^Exactly! That's what I came here to post. When I realised this I loved the change.

Deuz_Vult
02-02-2017, 02:01 PM
They should just make Deflect same as parry but instead of heavy attack, press light attack.

There You go, deflect fixed..

vennstrom.
02-02-2017, 02:40 PM
Deflect isn't necessarily more risky than parry. If you finding you're dodging into attacks, that's because your deflect is too late. When you're going for deflects, error on the side of dodging early. An early dodge will almost always still get you a dodge, and if you get the timing, you'll get the deflect. Late = you get hit. Parry is basically the opposite, it seems. A late parry = you probably still get the block. Early = you get hit.

This guy gets it.
Dodging is massive iframes, with a chance for free bonus damage in from deflect. It's not direct competition to parrying, it's a different tool for a different purpose.

The-Grey-Night
02-03-2017, 12:38 AM
I cannot see any else purpose.

I think this problem, and a lots more, could be balanced by simply nerfing Parry.

Arnaldo27
02-03-2017, 09:52 AM
I cannot see any else purpose.

I think this problem, and a lots more, could be balanced by simply nerfing Parry.

This. Parry is too strong and relatively easy to use IMO.

CaptainPwnet
02-05-2017, 06:56 AM
Both parry and deflect are too strong. Free damage for defensive options is bad game design. Neither of them are difficult to do either.

Also yes deflect is less risky unless you are doing something wrong. But zerker deflect reward is the same as parry but more consistent. Otherwise for orochi and PK they actually don't have much reason to deflect. It's more just something that you can get if you are timing dodges properly not really something you need to do.

Also putting it back on right stick is a bad idea unless you add another input. Otherwise you will see way too many accidental deflects just from regular blocking which was the real issue aside from the lenient window to deflect in the September alpha. It's great the way it is and makes sense as the assassins are very dodge-centric.

But as I said, NERF PARRIES AND DEFLECTS BOTH. That is all.