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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed Movie & Novelization - Lore Analysis, Oddities & Mystery (Spoilers)



Sorrosyss
01-02-2017, 11:48 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PXuWQFO.png

The Assassin's Creed movie brought us all some new lore to enjoy. A number of events occur during the movie, which will affect the playing field of the Modern Day going forwards. However, not all of the movie's lore makes absolute sense, and in some regards contradicts the existing franchise lore.

To this end, following on from watching the movie I elected to read the Novelization for any further insights. Based on the original screenplay, and likely forming part of potential deleted scenes, the Novelization does bring a number of new lines of dialogue between Sofia and Callum, and greatly expands on the characterization of the other captive assassins (Moussa, Nathan, Lin, and Emir).

Lets have a look then at some of the stand out moments from both sources and try to make sense of them. If you haven't watched the movie, then I'd strongly urge you to do so because there are major spoilers below.



The Apple of Eden

http://i.imgur.com/n0huDSh.png


War, religious persecution - and the closest Father Torquemada or any of our order came to finding the Apple.
- Ellen Kaye

For the majority of existing AC fans, the Apple of Eden within the movie has caused a great deal of confusion - more specifically as to why the Templars are acting like its the only one in existence. By all accounts, there were at least 12 Apples created by the First Civilization, and honestly likely far more that we do not even know of.

Alan Rikkin's reaction is especially strange, considering he was well aware of the situation with Desmond Miles. He and Vidic spoke at length on the Animus project, and there is no way he didn't review the security cameras when Desmond stormed through an Abstergo building wielding an Apple in plain sight. Why then does he refer to it as the Apple?

One possibility is that news of the Apples was suppressed. This would explain as to why the Elders knew nothing of them, and if it was indeed kept to the inner circle of Abstergo it would explain why Alan even feigns ignorance in front of Sofia as well. But even so, Al Mualim and Rodrigo Borgia both came into possession of an Apple, and even Abstergo itself had an Apple of its own to insert into their infamous Eye Satellite program - before they blew it up in Denver in 2011.

Another possibility is that they are literally referring to the Apple of Eden stolen by Eve herself. This in itself does not make much sense either, as we see two separate Apples within the Truth video of AC2. So it was not unique to the site at all. I suppose there might be some unique ability to the Eve version that we are not aware of, such as in the movie it appears to give off a green aura, but we remain pretty much in the dark as to its absolute abilities.

There is always the possibility that the movie writers just wanted to retell the Desmond story and decided to do away with the other Apples for a storytelling boon, but as stated this literally flies in the face of existing lore.

Another oddity is that the Apple in the movie appears red in colour in the Spanish timeframe, yet later in the modern day it appears to be both smaller and silver in appearance. There is no explanation given for this in the Novelization either. If there truly was one Apple - why are there several different versions mocked up as models within Sofia's office?

From a fan standpoint, the Apple situation is a bit of a mess honestly.

UPDATE: In a recent Reddit AMA, Aymar Aza´zia confirmed that the situation with the Apple was a script mistake, most likely caused by different script versions.



Rikkin and its Pronunciation

http://i.imgur.com/qqhfBkY.png

As we hear from the ending of Syndicate, the surname has always been pronounced 'Rick-in'. (Listen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv4XjLK_Xog&feature=youtu.be&t=193)) How on earth we ended up with 'Rye-kin' is beyond me. But it bothers me. :p

UPDATE: In a recent Reddit AMA, Aymar Aza´zia confirmed that this was a mistake, and canonically the pronunciation should be "Rick-in."



The Ring Finger

http://i.imgur.com/Xvq2W5q.png

Why were the Spanish Assassins still removing ring fingers? Its a strange oddity, when you factor in that Altair had already put in motion a way to stop the practice hundreds of years earlier. That plus other cells, such as the Italians, would scorch the finger instead of amputation. The Spanish even had grappling hooks in terms of technology, so I find it odd that they would not be aware of the current Assassin practices. I suppose they could have continued to remove fingers for purely nostalgic reasons or as an initiation test, but there was no need to do it for Aguilar's hidden blades for certain. After all, Callum used the exact same blades in the modern day with zero issue. Plus they only did one of Aguilar's hands. Oddness.

UPDATE: The official Assassin's Creed Facebook page pretty much confirmed (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1543991-Assassin-s-Creed-Movie-amp-Novelization-Lore-Analysis-Oddities-amp-Mystery-(Spoilers)?p=12157980&viewfull=1#post12157980) that it was for 'ritual' purposes.



The Elders

http://i.imgur.com/62y1NCD.png


Not to ourselves, but to the future - give glory.

- Ellen Kaye

We always knew that the Inner Sanctum was not the highest position within the order, but we finally have a name to them. It was previously suggested that the General of The Cross was the highest rank in the Order, and that may yet still be the case. But in terms of the movie, they are the Board of Directors, with Ellen Kaye as their Chairwoman. These are traditionalists, whom prefer to display the Templar order as they truly are, and do not hide behind the Abstergo face that the majority of the world sees.

UPDATE: In a recent Reddit AMA, Aymar Aza´zia confirmed that the Elders do not outrank the General of The Cross - nor does Ellen hold the title.



Shutting Down The Abstergo 'Project'

http://i.imgur.com/1x1eFjf.png

Speaking of Abstergo. My jaw dropped when I heard that The Elders were voting to close down the Abstergo 'Project'. I'm not sure this is a reference to the Phoenix Project, but more a reference to the Animus Project given that the Chairwoman speaks of chasing dreams with no results. Even so, the Animus project has yielded numerous Pieces of Eden, as well as an entire entertainment arm that literally brings in the company billions of dollars a year. In my view, I think Ellen views Alan as a threat to her own position within the Elders, and as such was planning on taking forthright action to prevent his ascension. Thats how I decided to read it anyway.



An End to Violence

http://i.imgur.com/oOp7HNG.png

The Rikkin's stated aim. I couldn't help but have flashbacks to the movie Clockwork Orange, where the government attempts to control aggression by the use of mind bending drugs. Here we apparently have the 'Seeds of Man's First Disobedience' within the Apple, which apparently means that the genetic code to free will is encased within the Apple of Eden.

I find it somewhat ironic then, that they require Callum to enter the Animus purely of his own free will. Surely thats a bit of a dichotomy right there...



Why the Animus?

http://i.imgur.com/FpTSrAu.png

Speaking of the Animus. The Rikkin's state that they need Callum to find the Apple. Except they don't.

We learn from the Novelization that Sofia has actually participated in the creation of most of the Animus chairs for the past few decades, and is fully aware of the video games that were created from the technology. In short, Helix.

Helix allows an entire bloodline to be explored without the need for a living subject, purely from a DNA or blood sample. We have known this within the lore since Black Flag in 2013, and it was made even more abundantly clear with the release of Unity when Abstergo made the unit an actual marketed games console in 2014.

Beyond wanting the nostalgia from the original game perhaps, there was literally no reason for an Animus to be used. At all. The Heresy novel tried to make the case that a more hands on approach in the Animus can yield extra secrets, but when an entire DNA timeline can be mapped out within Helix with no involvement required, it smacks more of the novel simply trying to justify the appearance of the Animus within the movie.

UPDATE: The novel Tomb of The Khan is the first lore to be released post movie, and specifically states that the new versions of the Animus are "much faster, more stable, and reliable than using Helix." So there you go.



Why do we hear everything in Spanish?

http://i.imgur.com/9fbUxyY.png

When this was initially announced for the historical sections, it bothered me. Since the very original game, the Animus has been able to translate foreign languages into English. Why this sudden retcon? Did the latest software simply decide to drop the translation program? Most odd.

The nearest explanation I can find is that the filmmakers wanted to retain the native Spanish to give a feel of authenticity to the scenes. However, it sadly flies in the face of traditional Animus lore.



Ezio Auditore de la la la

http://i.imgur.com/U7D84Td.png


I am a friend of the Creed.

- Christopher Columbus

I thought this was a nice touch. In my view this is clearly a reference to Ezio and the Assassins Creed II Discovery game for Nintendo DS and IoS that released in 2009. Within the storyline of that game, Ezio was actually in the Granada region of Spain at the same time as Aguilar and co in 1491, and even came close to assassinating Torquemada himself.

It is perhaps a sad thought that no true cameo of the great Assassin was made in the movie, given this obvious overlap in game and movie timelines.




The Black Knight

http://i.imgur.com/gQ6DHKQ.png

Ojeda, the enforcer of Torquemada's Inquisition. He wears black throughout, and is even referred to as The Black Knight. Within the Novelization, his backstory is greatly embellished with the revelation that he actually killed Aguilar's entire family - which ultimately pushed him into joining the Brotherhood.

He is a strong and capable fighter, and I wonder if this individual was actually one of the original Black Cross's within the Templar Order. The novelization also makes a point of stating that he has different coloured eyes, which immediately made me sit up and think 'SAGE'. But alas, there is little other evidence of this and I certainly don't recall the actor having different eyes within the actual film. (Feel free to correct me.)

UPDATE: In a recent Reddit AMA, Aymar Aza´zia confirmed that Ojeda is not a Sage.



AguilarXMaria

http://i.imgur.com/r7XSqKg.png

We got the smallest of glimpses in the movie at the romance between Aguilar and Maria. The Novelization takes it a step further, revealing that she actually fell in love with him prior to him joining the order. I always wondered why she evidently has no surname, and I have the suggestion that she may actually be Aguilar's actual wife all along.

She passes the necklace from her own parents to Aguilar, shortly before her death. This is ultimately the one and the same necklace that Callum is given within the film, having been passed down through the ages.



The 'Other' Modern Assassins

http://i.imgur.com/uY9RWl2.png

Within the Novelization, the four other modern day Assassins that are held within the Madrid facility are given far more characterization. We even learn as to whom they are related to, and we even get a regression scene for each of the historical assassins as well. If there are deleted scenes within the DVD/Blu Ray, I can guarantee it will feature these characters, particularly Moussa who has a fun scene with one of the guards.

Moussa / Baptiste
http://i.imgur.com/B6Awuik.png

Nathan / Duncan Walpole
http://i.imgur.com/mNd30wV.png

Lin / Shao Jun
http://i.imgur.com/njxd3gv.png

Emir / Yusuf Tazim
http://i.imgur.com/O8pckbU.png


Also, at some point there were FIVE Assassins in the ending. Hmm! The fifth was the character of Lara, whose scenes were sadly cut, but she can still be briefly seen in the first trailer.

http://i.imgur.com/FpcNbn7.png



The Bleeding Effect / The Final Hallucination

http://i.imgur.com/VPe53Xa.png

Another contentious point from the movie is what was going on once the Animus shut down, with Callum still attached. It was a very strange scene that on the face of it is very difficult to explain.

Earlier in the movie, we see 'Splitting' - which is the process by which a subject encounters a neurological split and loses their sense of identity - essentially becoming the emotionless zombies we saw in the Infinity Room. Was Callum experiencing a split over several lifetimes at once? If so, how - the Animus was essentially shut down at this point.

We see him fighting with a hallucination of Aguilar earlier in the movie, which suggests that the Bleeding Effect may be able to do far more than we experienced within the games. As other people present in the room could also see the Assassins, we can discount them as a hallucination purely of Cal's. They were also 'not memory' according to an aide.

Ok then, were they ghosts perhaps? Well, maybe. What if they were representations coming through via The Grey? Juno stated that the likes of Desmond and Clay lived on in the digital afterlife. Its a stretch, but with Callum still connected to technology it could feasibly be possible. Within the Novelization, his father appears within this scene as well, whom at this point of the film has recently been killed - which adds a little credence to this theory.

Were these ancestors all related to just Callum's DNA? Some certainly were, but its been suggested that Arno, Connor and even Ezio could be seen in the background. I doubt this is something we can really confirm without freeze framing, but if Callum was related to those bloodlines, why has he not exhibited Eagle Vision at any point in the movie (or novel)?

There is another major flaw to his DNA theory too. Why does Sofia see her own ancestor? The 'hallucination' is clearly interacting with Sofia, as she looks directly at her. If it was all coming from Cal's brain, then where on earth did she come from? Its a strange mystery, but in my mind confirms that Sofia's mother was actually an Assassin. I think she realises this, and ultimately knows that Alan was likely behind her murder. In my mind, this is why she makes no attempt to stop Callum murdering her father in the closing scenes of the movie.

In the end, the whole sequence makes little sense in the grand scheme of the lore. For now though I'm going to stick with The Grey theory.

UPDATE: In a recent Reddit AMA, Aymar Aza´zia confirmed that the sequence was a manifestation of Cal's subconcious combined with the Bleeding Effect, which allowed him to not only see his blood ancestors, but also individuals that interacted with them - such as Sofia's ancestor.



Overconfidence of the Templar Order

http://i.imgur.com/FAwopja.png


We've won. The modern world has outgrown notions like 'freedom'. They are content to follow.

- Ellen Kaye

We know from Syndicate that London has near always been a Templar stronghold, and the Modern Day is no different. We do see some extraordinary examples of overconfidence from the Templars here though. For a secretive order to be holding a grand party at the 'Templar Hall' with visible Templar logos all over it is one thing, but then to all be openly wearing hoods to the ceremony - its almost as if they were goading the Assassins to try and have a go. And ultimately they did, with their job made so much easier due to this. I found it a bit of a struggle lore wise to believe that this ancient order could be so naive, but there we have it.

Alan Rikkin, a member of the Inner Sanctum is now dead. A fundamental blow to Abstergo, and the end to a character that has been in the lore for a decade. With Sofia to take his position, she swears to track down the Apple for The Elders, but wants Cal for herself. The novel briefly suggests of a possible romantic angle between herself and Callum, but I think she is now in a strange position that she wants to track down whom was an Assassin in her bloodline. After knowing only a life within the Templar order, she suddenly wants to know more about the 'other side'. It could make her character arc very interesting in the purported sequel, as she may end up working for both sides in a fashion.

But what of the Assassin Brotherhood? Wow, they had a big win here. They've gained three new powerful and trained assassins, as well as another Apple of Eden (presumably to go along with the one that William Miles ran off with). What next for Callum, Moussa and Lin? Will they go off to join Miles and the rest of the known Modern Day Assassins? Will we possibly see them in the next game maybe? I guess we'll have to wait and see.



Conclusion

http://i.imgur.com/oxkDSS4.png

Looking back on some of the lore inconsistencies, I suppose one reason behind the differences is purely timing. After all, development of the movie apparently began in 2011. With the game series constantly progressing, perhaps there just wasn't enough focus on ensuring that new lore changes might impact upon the movie. That and of course that the movie be given its own room to try and do an impactful story for new fans.

Having said that, Ubisoft designs and writes their games years in advance of their releases too. I'd be curious to hear how some of the lore decisions were decided upon, but I suppose if the movie really is a self contained thing, if the movies do not continue it would not really affect the future of the game series that much. Well, save the death of Alan Rikkin.

Its a shame that the movie did not really touch on the First Civilization or Juno, as I feel it could have helped explain some of the things that confused many critics (especially around the purpose of the Apple). But alas. The movie still did a great job, I just wish there had been a bit more care versus the existing lore. Still, it gave me purpose to type all this out!

Anyhoo. What did you think to these lore points? Did I miss anything else lore wise? Feel free to jump in.



===============================================
Finally, if you were interested in my thoughts on the movie overall, I posted my review yesterday but I include it below for completeness should you be interested.


Presentation

I thought the differentation between the historical and modern day portions was really well done. They both had pretty distinct colourations, with the histortical sections more warm and golden, and the Abstergo sections cold and blue. I absolutely loved the use of the Eagle for bringing us to different scenes, I thought it was a beautiful and poignant way of setting up each piece.

I really enjoyed the fight sections, and thought the choreography was really good. The parkour scenes with Aguilar and Maria, and the fighting as a team was a great highlight for me.


Sound

I was kind of cringing at the start of the film when it opened to rock music, as it felt horribly out of place. Fortunately after that it switched to a more traditional soundtrack. I was a bit hesitant when I heard it was the director's brother serving as composer, but I honestly think he did a solid job. There was some really good music in the closing moments of the movie, which fit really well. Still, I would really have liked to have heard some tracks from the games. Ezio's Family and An Uncertain Present would have blown my mind, but alas.

Sound effect wise, there was the typical fare you expected like the hidden blade sound. Nothing really outside what was expected.


Story

It was essentially a retelling of Desmond's story. There is no way of getting around that. Though having said that, I thought it did a good job of introducing the Animus concept to non-fans. I'm really not sure why so many critics had such a hard time grasping the concept. I would say that the film could certainly have used a small explanation of the First Civilization and their ties to the Apple. It didn't really cover the story of Adam and Eve, and in my view would have benefitted the movie to have explained both the biblical tale and/or that of the AC universe version. I can see why those unfamiliar with either version of the Eden story might have found the Apple's purpose a bit wooly to understand.

I would say that the movie did feel short. Pacing wise, they could and should have done more with the historical sections. For example, it was obvious that Aguilar and Maria were in a relationship, but we saw next to nothing of that. Because everything zipped through so fast, the historical sections seemed to consist of primarily action sequences. It was a shame, but at the same time I really wasn't enjoying the subtitles - especially when we had write writing on a very brightly lit scene making it difficult to read. For me, the emotional impact is lessened when its outside of a language you are familiar with and you are more focused on reading the bottom of the screen, rather than enjoying the emotional performance of the actors. In my view, the sequences should have remained in English - not to mention the fact that the Animus could always translate in the games, thus this particular retcon makes little sense.

Speaking of lore contradictions. There were a LOT. I'm going to do a proper Lore Analysis over the coming days, but I want to double check my understanding versus the novelization before I post that. Suffice to say, there were some really odd things going on here that do not tally up with existing lore. As a big lore fan, this was without a doubt my biggest disappointment with the film, as with Ubisoft's direct involvement I fully expected everything to tie up - but alas. Anyhoo, I'll save that for my next thread as there is a lot to cover on the lore side.

As for the modern day, I enjoyed it. I thought the Bleeding Effect scenes translated well from the games. I quite liked Sofia (even though her accent was all over the place lol), and even Alan was quite fun. I was genuinely shocked that they killed off such a major character, as he has been around since the very original game. Felt a bit of a poor exit for such a big name. Still, the quest for eliminating aggression and violence kind of mirrored what Vidic was alluding to in the early games, so that was a nice touch - if a little familiar to the Clockwork Orange storyline. ;)

I thought that Fassbender did a really good job, but the way that Callum was written made it pretty difficult to like the character very much. I thought the scene with his father showed he was changing from the Animus, and in the end you could see that he was essentially reborn with a new purpose in life.

But my word, what a massive boost the ending was for the Assassins. Gained an apple, took out Rikkin in the middle of a Templar owned ceremony, and escaped into the night with three new powerful allies.


Conclusion

I enjoyed the film alot. As a fan, there was enough there to safely say that it was true to the franchise. At the same time, my love for the AC franchise is ultimately why I would mark it down too as some of the lore really got messed up here. I still felt that the new Animus looked far too goofy, the subtitled Spanish was unnecessary, and the film could definitely have benefited from being half an hour longer to give us more character development. That being said, this was a solid movie, and for the life of me I cannot understand why the critics are averaging this film at 1 or 2 out of 10.

The biggest mistake for this movie is ultimately nothing to do with the filmmakers though. I still argue (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1381954-The-Assassin-s-Creed-Movie-Release-Date-concerns-Forums) that releasing the movie in the same timeframe as Star Wars was a fundamental mistake. I had to travel quite a distance to see the AC movie, as my nearest cinema had dedicated most of its screens to Star Wars. If the movie had released a month before or after Star Wars, it would arguably have had a healthier run at the box office. That and actually making the movie a global release - why several territories are months after the USA baffles me and will drag out its box office to cries of 'flop' from the media. At time of writing, its made roughly a quarter of its budget back, but some commentors have suggested that this will curtail the hopes of any sequel. I personally hope that is not the case, as I would love to see a sequel to fill the gaps between the games.

Converting a behemoth like Assassin's Creed to a sub 2 hour movie was always going to be a big ask. I feel that overall though, the movie succeeded. In my view, the franchise would still be far better suited to a TV series (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1425451-quot-Previously-on-Assassin-s-Creed-quot-The-case-for-an-AC-Television-Series-Forums) that could allow for a good 10 hours to give us proper character development and to fully explore the Animus concept and multiple timeframes and locations. If the movies do not continue, I hope that Ubisoft does not give up with the TV idea, as the movie certainly proved that the franchise can be converted to a very enjoyable medium away from the games.

I would give the AC movie, a 7 out of 10.

+ Parkour, action sequences.
+ The musical score
+ Eagle sequences and cinematography
+ Fassbender, Cotillard and Irons all did a solid job

- Spoken spanish and subtitles
- Numerous lore issues
- Too short/pacing/character development
- Movie release schedule was just awful



Thanks for reading!

Farlander1991
01-03-2017, 12:57 AM
Alan Rikkin's reaction is especially strange, considering he was well aware of the situation with Desmond Miles. He and Vidic spoke at length on the Animus project, and there is no way he didn't review the security cameras when Desmond stormed through an Abstergo building wielding an Apple in plain sight. Why then does he refer to the Apple as 'the artifact'?

While I was a bit confused with how it seemed like there's just one Apple, regardless, why wouldn't he call it 'the artifact'? It is the artifact that they're searching for, so.


But even so, Al Mualim and Rodrigo Borgia both came into possession of an Apple, and even Abstergo itself had an Apple of its own to insert into their infamous Eye Satellite program - before they blew it up in Denver in 2011.

Al Mualim wasn't a Templar (he found the AC1 apple with the Templars, but he wasn't a part of the Templar order), and Borgia aren't really respected in the Md (plus their possession of the Apple was quite short-lived). The Denver thing though... What's interesting regarding the AC1 apple, now that I think about it, is that even though the Templars had it, they didn't record the locations of other artifacts that it has shown... so they brought in Desmond. Seems weird. But anyway, yeah, MD Templars had different apples in possession.

But then again, the games themselves had a huge mistake with the Apple in ACB (as AC2 apple was supposed to be Altair's one that got destroyed), and they've used ACR to retcon why is that the case, maybe it's a similar situation here. Some oversight. But also it's a lot simpler to talk about the artifact in singular from when introducing to the AC universe, so there's that.


Another oddity is that the Apple in the movie appears red in colour in the Spanish timeframe, yet later in the modern day it appears to be both smaller and silver in appearance. There is no explanation given for this in the Novelization either. If there truly was one Apple - why are there several different versions mocked up as models within Sofia's office?

The red part is an outer shell holding the real apple inside it. You can see in Sofia's office schematics of how the Apple sits inside that container, and when the Templars recover it, the container is half-broken. So that's not an error.


I find it somewhat ironic then, that they require Callum to enter the Animus purely of his own free will. Surely thats a bit of a dichotomy right there...

Yeah, that's interesting, but I also think that it was done on purpose. Because it also shows the difference between Sofia's and Alan's approach (though Alan manipulated it so it would fit both approaches... and that really is how the Templars can achieve ultimate control - make people think that they HAVE free will while in reality manipulating their decisions, using the Apple if we speak on broader scale).


Speaking of the Animus. The Rikkin's state that they need Callum to find the Apple. Except they don't.

Didn't they talk in one of the comics how Animus is better than Helix, though?


When this was initially announced for the historical sections, it bothered me. Since the very original game, the Animus has been able to translate foreign languages into English. Why this sudden retcon? Did the latest software simply decide to drop the translation program? Most odd.

The nearest explanation I can find is that the filmmakers wanted to retain the native Spanish to give a feel of authenticity to the scenes. However, it sadly flies in the face of traditional Animus lore.

The traditional Animus lore is a mess anyway straight from AC1, where Altair talked in American accent while others didn't. And honestly, the AC2 way... I dislike it. It really makes no sense for the translations to be English in Italian accents, because from the perception of the past self - they hear no foreign language accents as they're talking in their own language. I honestly think that ACU way makes more sense when it comes to translation. AC3 and AC4 got lucky in terms of the characters being in an English-speaking country, so whenever somebody spoke with an accent it is because they actually spoke with an accent in English.

Anyway, this didn't bother me much. I kinda liked that they had Spanish there.


If so, how - the Animus was essentially shut down at this point.

The Animus wasn't shut down. The arm was broken, but the Animus was still working as it was still connected to his spinal cord (and that's why also everyone could see what happens).


In the end, the whole sequence makes little sense in the grand scheme of the lore. For now though I'm going to stick with The Grey theory.

I think you're reading too much into it. It's like the white rooms, but on a more cryptic scale - something abstract that happens because of all DNA memories and Callum's knowledge being mixed in together.


ts a shame that the movie did not really touch on the First Civilization or Juno, as I feel it could have helped explain some of the things that confused many critics (especially around the purpose of the Apple).

Honestly, I think introducing First Civ or Juno would make the critics bash the movie even MORE, as they weren't as much confused about the purpose of the Apple, but they weren't accepting of the premise in general. Really, no amount of lore would change that. And it would confuse the casual movie goers more as well, there's enough to take in in the movie as it is for those who don't know the lore.

SixKeys
01-03-2017, 09:49 AM
For the majority of existing AC fans, the Apple of Eden within the movie has caused a great deal of confusion - more specifically as to why the Templars are acting like its the only one in existence. By all accounts, there were at least 12 Apples created by the First Civilization, and honestly likely far more that we do not even know of.

Alan Rikkin's reaction is especially strange, considering he was well aware of the situation with Desmond Miles. He and Vidic spoke at length on the Animus project, and there is no way he didn't review the security cameras when Desmond stormed through an Abstergo building wielding an Apple in plain sight. Why then does he refer to the Apple as 'the artifact'?

I know Ubi like to claim the movie is part of the same continuity as the games, but we know from many details that cannot possibly be the case. I'm happy to chalk this up to just one of those things that are necessary when adapting this kind of material into a 2-hour movie. It's best to view the movie as kind of like the edited versions of history the Templars like to sell to the masses.



Another oddity is that the Apple in the movie appears red in colour in the Spanish timeframe, yet later in the modern day it appears to be both smaller and silver in appearance. There is no explanation given for this in the Novelization either. If there truly was one Apple - why are there several different versions mocked up as models within Sofia's office?

I can't help but wonder if they reshot some scenes with the Apple. At no point in the movie did it look exactly like the replica being sold by UbiWorkshop. It didn't even look like the same one used in the trailers. The replica was clearly golden but as you say, at some point in the movie we get a clear look at the Apple and it's smooth and silver, just like the one in AC1. It's almost like they weren't happy with the initial version so they used one that was more games-accurate. I could be wrong, of course, but it distinctly looked like a different prop altogether.



Rikkin and its Pronunciation

As we hear from the ending of Syndicate, the surname has always been pronounced 'Rick-in'. (Listen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv4XjLK_Xog&feature=youtu.be&t=193)) How on earth we ended up with 'Rye-kin' is beyond me. But it bothers me. :p

Who's to say Syndicate didn't get it wrong? Even in the games people will occasionally pronounce a character's name in two different ways. I'm pretty sure Desmond said "All-TARE" a couple of times, then later switched to "Al-ta-eer". In the beginning of AC2 he even pronounces Ezio as "Easy-oh". Just saying, even in-universe characters can sometimes get it wrong.



Why were the Spanish Assassins still removing ring fingers? Its a strange oddity, when you factor in that Altair had already put in motion a way to stop the practice hundreds of years earlier. That plus other cells, such as the Italians, would scorch the finger instead of amputation. The Spanish even had grappling hooks in terms of technology, so I find it odd that they would not be aware of the current Assassin practices. I suppose they could have continued to remove fingers for purely nostalgic reasons or as an initiation test, but there was no need to do it for Aguilar's hidden blades for certain. After all, Callum used the exact same blades in the modern day with zero issue. Plus they only did one of Aguilar's hands. Oddness.

I'll play Devil's advocate and say maybe it's just one of those cultural things where different sects of assassins have different customs. Ezio had never heard of the hookblade before visiting Constantinople and the assassins there had apparently been using it for decades. You'd think such an advanced leap in technology would have spread to other cells around the world, but it was exclusive to the Turkish sect. The Spanish assassins also had facial tattoos for reasons that were never explained, so maybe it's just a unique initiation ritual for them.



Shutting Down The Abstergo 'Project'

Speaking of Abstergo. My jaw dropped when I heard that The Elders were voting to close down the Abstergo 'Project'. I'm not sure this is a reference to the Phoenix Project, but more a reference to the Animus Project given that the Chairwoman speaks of chasing dreams with no results. Even so, the Animus project has yielded numerous Pieces of Eden, as well as an entire entertainment arm that literally brings in the company billions of dollars a year. In my view, I think Ellen views Alan as a threat to her own position within the Elders, and as such was planning on taking forthright action to prevent his ascension. Thats how I decided to read it anyway.

It did sound a bit weird, but in terms of the movie it's not so strange. The Apple is presented as an object that can completely eradicate free will. The assassins are all presumed dead right before the big gathering. When the Templars get their hands on the Apple, they think they've finally won the war. Why wouldn't they start planning the dismantling of this expensive project now that they've achieved their ultimate goal? In the movie it seems pretty clear there is only one Apple, one artifact to rule them all and the Templars don't have a million others rotting in a cellar somewhere. Which is really much more sensible than the games where the Templars seem to have become hoarders who never actually USE the artifacts they find. This is why I find the idea of multiple Apples so problematic: it diminishes the urgency of getting to the treasure first. So what if the Templars have one Apple if there are ten more out there? Some of the other artifacts are a bit rubbish, like the Sword of Eden which only shoots lightning or the Shard which deflects bullets. Modern technology can produce far more powerful weapons than that, why even waste time on them?

Tl;dr The movie version of events makes more sense than the current games' canon, because in the movie Abstergo's ultimate purpose is to find this ONE treasure, and once they've fulfilled that goal, there would be no need for the company to exist anymore.



An End to Violence

The Rikkin's stated aim. I couldn't help but have flashbacks to the movie Clockwork Orange, where the government attempts to control aggression by the use of mind bending drugs. Here we apparently have the 'Seeds of Man's First Disobedience' within the Apple, which apparently means that the genetic code to free will is encased within the Apple of Eden.

I find it somewhat ironic then, that they require Callum to enter the Animus purely of his own free will. Surely thats a bit of a dichotomy right there...

It's obvious that "eradicating violence" was only Sophia's noble goal. Alan had more far-reaching goals in mind the whole time, he just allowed his daughter to do what she wanted because he saw potential in her approach. In a way you could argue there are parallels between Sophia and "Project Siren". Two women whose goal was to gain the subjects' trust with kindness, while ultimately they were being controlled from the shadows for more sinister purposes.



Beyond wanting the nostalgia from the original game perhaps, there was literally no reason for an Animus to be used. At all. The Heresy novel tried to make the case that a more hands on approach in the Animus can yield extra secrets, but when an entire DNA timeline can be mapped out within Helix with no involvement required, it smacks more of the novel simply trying to justify the appearance of the Animus within the movie.

I honestly don't care because I hate the Helix. The Animus is a much cooler and more iconic concept than a dumb Windows 10 menu. I hope Empire brings back the Animus - as a chair, an arm, whatever - and drops the Helix.


When this was initially announced for the historical sections, it bothered me. Since the very original game, the Animus has been able to translate foreign languages into English. Why this sudden retcon? Did the latest software simply decide to drop the translation program? Most odd.

Technically the Animus only translates the languages you need to understand. In AC1, Alta´r understands English and Arabic and he mostly interacts with Arabic- or English-speaking people during missions. There are German, Turkish and French soldiers in each city, but their dialogues are not translated, presumably because they're not essential.
In Callum's case I'm guessing maybe he already knows Spanish (from school, work, travel, whatever - we really don't know much about his life) so there's no need for the machine to translate stuff into English for him.

Like I said in another thread, I like the use of authentic language in the historical parts rather than English with fake Spanish accents. Farlander already explained why.



There is another major flaw to his DNA theory too. Why does Sofia see her own ancestor? The 'hallucination' is clearly interacting with Sofia, as she looks directly at her. If it was all coming from Cal's brain, then where on earth did she come from? Its a strange mystery, but in my mind confirms that Sofia's mother was actually an Assassin. I think she realises this, and ultimately knows that Alan was likely behind her murder. In my mind, this is why she makes no attempt to stop Callum murdering her father in the closing scenes of the movie.

This is how I interpreted the Sofia scene, too. As for the rest, I honestly have no idea what all that was. My guess would be a sync nexus, like between Desmond and Ezio in ACR. In ACR the two can't interact, but they are aware of each other. In all likelihood it was just a way to illustrate Cal embracing his lineage, his place and purpose in history. I'm not sure there is a way to explain it "properly" within the lore. But then, White Rooms have never made sense either, it's just something that looks cool.


But what of the Assassin Brotherhood? Wow, they had a big win here. They've gained three new powerful and trained assassins, as well as another Apple of Eden (presumably to go along with the one that William Miles ran off with). What next for Callum, Moussa and Lin? Will they go off to join Miles and the rest of the known Modern Day Assassins? Will we possibly see them in the next game maybe? I guess we'll have to wait and see.



Its a shame that the movie did not really touch on the First Civilization or Juno, as I feel it could have helped explain some of the things that confused many critics (especially around the purpose of the Apple). But alas. The movie still did a great job, I just wish there had been a bit more care versus the existing lore. Still, it gave me purpose to type all this out!

Once again, I agree with Farlander. The critics already struggled to wrap their heads around the idea that the Apple wasn't edible. :rolleyes: Throwing an ancient Roman alien goddess into the mix would have made them spontaneously combust. Hell, Juno barely makes sense in the games and they've had years to develop her.

joshoolhorst
01-03-2017, 06:41 PM
I honestly don't care because I hate the Helix. The Animus is a much cooler and more iconic concept than a dumb Windows 10 menu. I hope Empire brings back the Animus - as a chair, an arm, whatever - and drops the Helix.

I despise that thing being canon myself! Helix exist so the writers can easily write themself out of situations and everytime we ignore that thing I give the media it is presented in a big thumb up

Sorrosyss
01-03-2017, 09:27 PM
Ah, thanks very much Farlander and SixKeys for contributing. I value your opinions greatly. I'll try and combine your replies on the topics and respond to you both. :)



While I was a bit confused with how it seemed like there's just one Apple, regardless, why wouldn't he call it 'the artifact'? It is the artifact that they're searching for, so.

Yes, apologies. I really should proof read better. That should have simply read the Apple.




Al Mualim wasn't a Templar (he found the AC1 apple with the Templars, but he wasn't a part of the Templar order), and Borgia aren't really respected in the Md (plus their possession of the Apple was quite short-lived). The Denver thing though... What's interesting regarding the AC1 apple, now that I think about it, is that even though the Templars had it, they didn't record the locations of other artifacts that it has shown... so they brought in Desmond. Seems weird. But anyway, yeah, MD Templars had different apples in possession.

But then again, the games themselves had a huge mistake with the Apple in ACB (as AC2 apple was supposed to be Altair's one that got destroyed), and they've used ACR to retcon why is that the case, maybe it's a similar situation here. Some oversight. But also it's a lot simpler to talk about the artifact in singular from when introducing to the AC universe, so there's that.


I know Ubi like to claim the movie is part of the same continuity as the games, but we know from many details that cannot possibly be the case. I'm happy to chalk this up to just one of those things that are necessary when adapting this kind of material into a 2-hour movie. It's best to view the movie as kind of like the edited versions of history the Templars like to sell to the masses.

Yes, Al Mualim was probably not the best example to give there, but he was a collaborator with the Templars I suppose. He could have passed it to them at some point - well, if he'd have lived anyhoo.

But I think I agree with you Six, per what I suggested I think they just wanted to simply side step the lore of the multiple Apples to simplify it for the movie. Ubisoft are still insisting it is part of the greater lore, and the Heresy novel directly feeds into it in fairness. Thus I think the only in-lore explanation is that Alan was lying, and supressing information to the greater Templar Order. Given his character traits, I could totally see this on reflection.




Who's to say Syndicate didn't get it wrong? Even in the games people will occasionally pronounce a character's name in two different ways. I'm pretty sure Desmond said "All-TARE" a couple of times, then later switched to "Al-ta-eer". In the beginning of AC2 he even pronounces Ezio as "Easy-oh". Just saying, even in-universe characters can sometimes get it wrong.

Well, I'll concede I didn't think of that possibility. However, Grammatica serves within the Inner Sanctum with Rikkin. I'd be surprised if Alan would not have corrected him all this time. ;)




It did sound a bit weird, but in terms of the movie it's not so strange. The Apple is presented as an object that can completely eradicate free will. The assassins are all presumed dead right before the big gathering. When the Templars get their hands on the Apple, they think they've finally won the war. Why wouldn't they start planning the dismantling of this expensive project now that they've achieved their ultimate goal? In the movie it seems pretty clear there is only one Apple, one artifact to rule them all and the Templars don't have a million others rotting in a cellar somewhere. Which is really much more sensible than the games where the Templars seem to have become hoarders who never actually USE the artifacts they find. This is why I find the idea of multiple Apples so problematic: it diminishes the urgency of getting to the treasure first. So what if the Templars have one Apple if there are ten more out there? Some of the other artifacts are a bit rubbish, like the Sword of Eden which only shoots lightning or the Shard which deflects bullets. Modern technology can produce far more powerful weapons than that, why even waste time on them?

Tl;dr The movie version of events makes more sense than the current games' canon, because in the movie Abstergo's ultimate purpose is to find this ONE treasure, and once they've fulfilled that goal, there would be no need for the company to exist anymore.

Mmm. It is funny, when I saw the film I thought that Kaye was referring to the whole of Abstergo in totality. But I believe she is only referring to the Animus Project in this scene, especially when she talks of chasing dreams. That plus I hope that the entirety of Abstergo spends more than 3 billion a year! Haha. Abstergo has been around way before they started actively hunting for Pieces of Eden as well - at least to my knowledge. But yes, the Phoenix Project has not really yielded anything of use beyond mapping the Isu/Sage genome. I suppose that is ultimately why they still seek the artifacts in the hopes of finding something along the lines of the Blood Vials.




The red part is an outer shell holding the real apple inside it. You can see in Sofia's office schematics of how the Apple sits inside that container, and when the Templars recover it, the container is half-broken. So that's not an error.


I can't help but wonder if they reshot some scenes with the Apple. At no point in the movie did it look exactly like the replica being sold by UbiWorkshop. It didn't even look like the same one used in the trailers. The replica was clearly golden but as you say, at some point in the movie we get a clear look at the Apple and it's smooth and silver, just like the one in AC1. It's almost like they weren't happy with the initial version so they used one that was more games-accurate. I could be wrong, of course, but it distinctly looked like a different prop altogether.

Thats an interesting point about the outer shell being shown in the office Farlander. I'll have to keep an eye out on my next viewing. I mean we assume that is ultimately what happened, but I find it strange that even the novelization makes no mention of the colour change. Mind you, you might be right too SixKeys. I could have sworn I saw a photo of Alan Rikkin holding the red/gold apple a few months back. It may have been part of the reshoots that occurred in the summer, as I believe that was at a cathedral too.




Didn't they talk in one of the comics how Animus is better than Helix, though?


I honestly don't care because I hate the Helix. The Animus is a much cooler and more iconic concept than a dumb Windows 10 menu. I hope Empire brings back the Animus - as a chair, an arm, whatever - and drops the Helix.

They talk about the Animus being able to locate finer detail easier in the Heresy novel, but I don't recall it being mentioned in a comic. I may have to dig through and have a look, thanks.

As for Helix. Well, firstly I agree, I kind of hate it too. We all know it was brought in likely to excuse the lack of a Modern Day protagonist in Unity. I personally suspect Helix may disappear for the next game, but as of right now there is no explanation as to why it wasn't used. Beyond, you know, movie artistic integrity of putting Fassbender in a machine - plus callbacks to the original (*cough* better) games.




The traditional Animus lore is a mess anyway straight from AC1, where Altair talked in American accent while others didn't. And honestly, the AC2 way... I dislike it. It really makes no sense for the translations to be English in Italian accents, because from the perception of the past self - they hear no foreign language accents as they're talking in their own language. I honestly think that ACU way makes more sense when it comes to translation. AC3 and AC4 got lucky in terms of the characters being in an English-speaking country, so whenever somebody spoke with an accent it is because they actually spoke with an accent in English.

Anyway, this didn't bother me much. I kinda liked that they had Spanish there.


Technically the Animus only translates the languages you need to understand. In AC1, Alta´r understands English and Arabic and he mostly interacts with Arabic- or English-speaking people during missions. There are German, Turkish and French soldiers in each city, but their dialogues are not translated, presumably because they're not essential.
In Callum's case I'm guessing maybe he already knows Spanish (from school, work, travel, whatever - we really don't know much about his life) so there's no need for the machine to translate stuff into English for him.

Like I said in another thread, I like the use of authentic language in the historical parts rather than English with fake Spanish accents. Farlander already explained why.

Mmmm. Thats fair. The translation tool was spotty (even Rebecca said that) after all. Thats certainly a valid solution if Callum did know Spanish. Though we did see the Animus was translating on the monitors too, so I guess it was there to some degree.




The Animus wasn't shut down. The arm was broken, but the Animus was still working as it was still connected to his spinal cord (and that's why also everyone could see what happens).

I think you're reading too much into it. It's like the white rooms, but on a more cryptic scale - something abstract that happens because of all DNA memories and Callum's knowledge being mixed in together.


This is how I interpreted the Sofia scene, too. As for the rest, I honestly have no idea what all that was. My guess would be a sync nexus, like between Desmond and Ezio in ACR. In ACR the two can't interact, but they are aware of each other. In all likelihood it was just a way to illustrate Cal embracing his lineage, his place and purpose in history. I'm not sure there is a way to explain it "properly" within the lore. But then, White Rooms have never made sense either, it's just something that looks cool.

Whilst its true that it wasn't fully shut down, they did say it was not showing a memory. Thats more what I meant, in that it wasn't displaying a simulation at that particular moment. I've actually thought more about this today, and I came to another realisation. If it was the equivalent of a White Room as you both suggest, then essentially it could be loading in anything from Cal's DNA. As such, I think that we not only see his ancestors, but potentially any people that may have interacted with his ancestors. Essentially, this is how we could still see Arno and the like being present there. I mean yes, the scene was obviously made to show the audience that Callum was being initiated, but I like to think there is a rational explanation underneath all this.

The novelization states that the Assassins are "springing from Cal's DNA, his mind, or his conscience- she (Sofia) was utterly unable to tell which." After that she yells "He is projecting images of the Brotherhood!". This all fits, but I still can't put a rationale on why he is able to converse with his mother, other than a Sync Nexus as you suggest (or the actual Isu Nexus).

But yeah, this scene really is pretty mysterious. I look forward to hearing the Director's commentary on the DVD to shed some light.




Honestly, I think introducing First Civ or Juno would make the critics bash the movie even MORE, as they weren't as much confused about the purpose of the Apple, but they weren't accepting of the premise in general. Really, no amount of lore would change that. And it would confuse the casual movie goers more as well, there's enough to take in in the movie as it is for those who don't know the lore.



Once again, I agree with Farlander. The critics already struggled to wrap their heads around the idea that the Apple wasn't edible. :rolleyes: Throwing an ancient Roman alien goddess into the mix would have made them spontaneously combust. Hell, Juno barely makes sense in the games and they've had years to develop her.

*Inhales* Ohhh. I'm sat here with a Juno avatar, you wound me both. :D This is probably the one topic where I'll disagree with you guys though. Sofia's dialogue;

"The Bible tells us it contains the seed of man's first disobedience. But there are those who believe it has its basis in science. That within its genetic code, God - or some ancient civilization - has left us a roadmap to understand why people are violent."

To me, that is far too vague an explanation as to where it came from, and what its purpose is. I can understand why a lot of critics and movie goers were confused as to why there was no 'real' apple, as they likely referred in their minds to what is essentially the common biblical story of Eden and an actual real apple. Given that the film was on the short side, I personally do not think it would have hurt to have shown a very brief scene of Adam and Eve stealing the Apple. The Truth video in AC2 blew me away the very first time I saw it, and I was desperate to understand more about what happened to this version of humanity's history. I feel a similar short scene would have done enough to separate from the biblical tale, and left a degree of mystery and wonder for audiences. In my view it was this lack of a background that made the Apple's purpose and appearance a point of confusion for many.

HDinHB
01-03-2017, 09:32 PM
Spoilers below


Animus vs.Helix
Helix was kind of a cute way to tie the real world reality of games consoles to the Abstergo Entertainment corporate mind-control story, but as a literary tool, it's inferior to the Animus in every way. The whole benefit of having the modern day is seeing how the modern day protagonist connects to his/her ancestor and how that connection affects the modern day story. One of the best parts of the movie was when Cal went into the Animus hating and intending to destroy the Assassins,then experiencing the memory of Maria sacrificing herself when Aguilar could not, and how that paralleled his mother's own sacrifice. How awful it would have been if Callum was just a corporate drone like Floating Tablet or Numbskull and just watched Aguilar's story on a monitor. The arm is pretty busted, and I don't know if Abstergo is motivated to rebuild it--or if Rebecca could afford to--but if they use the movie as an excuse to retcon or ****can the Helix, I'm good with that.

Sophia's ancestor in the Animus
I always assumed this was one of Callum's ancestors. For an instant, when I first saw those amazing eyes, I thought it was her mother, but then I realized the ages wouldn't work, so it's an ancestor of Sophia's further back that is also an ancestor of Callum. Sophia must have realized this too, and it influenced her behavior during her father's speech in the Grand Hall.

The Apple's appearance
When they open the casket from Columbus's tomb, it looks at first like silver apple is sitting in sand, but you can see it looks like the red/orange coating is breaking down revealing the inner silver apple. I don't know what or why there's a red coating in the first place.

Aguilar's finger
Since Callum uses the hidden blade with all 10 finger's, there was no practical reason to cut off Aguilar's finger, so it must have been ceremonial. Maria had all her fingers, but I didn't get to see if Aguilar's mentor had all of his.

Favorite Easter eggs
When Maria and Aguilar are escaping the auto-da-fÚ, they push one of the pursuing guards off a roof and he falls into a haystack. I didn't get to see if he survived.

Sophia is awed when witnessing the leap of faith for the first time. She's obviously heard of them but never seen it.

SixKeys
01-03-2017, 10:14 PM
Favorite Easter eggs
When Maria and Aguilar are escaping the auto-da-fÚ, they push one of the pursuing guards off a roof and he falls into a haystack. I didn't get to see if he survived.

OMGGG I totally forgot to mention this in my review. Loved it!! :D It wasn't in-your-face like "see what we did there?" but a very subtle nod to the games.



Sophia is awed when witnessing the leap of faith for the first time. She's obviously heard of them but never seen it.

That line was really cringeworthy. They should have worked it into an earlier conversation, for example Sophia telling Callum about how his ancestors were so dedicated to their creed that they were known to perform these suicidal stunts. The way they did it, it was almost like you could hear the little ™ after she said "leap of faith". :p



Well, I'll concede I didn't think of that possibility. However, Grammatica serves within the Inner Sanctum with Rikkin. I'd be surprised if Alan would not have corrected him all this time. ;)

Now I'm picturing Alan as Count de Monet:


https://youtu.be/sztf4hcGrB4



Thats an interesting point about the outer shell being shown in the office Farlander. I'll have to keep an eye out on my next viewing. I mean we assume that is ultimately what happened, but I find it strange that even the novelization makes no mention of the colour change. Mind you, you might be right too SixKeys. I could have sworn I saw a photo of Alan Rikkin holding the red/gold apple a few months back. It may have been part of the reshoots that occurred in the summer, as I believe that was at a cathedral too.

I really hope all the stuff that was presumably reshot/cut out of the final movie shortly before release will be on the DVD as extras. It felt like there was so much missing, like all the MD assassins' backstories or Aguilar and Maria's relationship. If it was in the novelization, there's a strong possibility they were originally part of the script. I wonder if there was initially more hints regarding the lore, especially the First Civ, that may ultimately have been cut for whatever reason.



Mmmm. Thats fair. The translation tool was spotty (even Rebecca said that) after all. Thats certainly a valid solution if Callum did know Spanish. Though we did see the Animus was translating on the monitors too, so I guess it was there to some degree.

What I'm wondering is how Sophia and the other people in the room were able to follow what was happening. There is only one scene where she asks the technician for a direct translation. Does that mean they weren't seeing subtitles this whole time? That Callum was the only one who could understand Spanish? Shouldn't they be constantly asking "what's he saying now? what just happened?" ?

That was one technical aspect that really should have been explained more clearly. To be fair, it hasn't been explained well in the games either, but at least AC1 introduced us to the idea of "recording" memories (cut scenes) which suggests some kind of brain-to-video link in the machine. But in the movie they only ever talk about Callum synchronizing, not how they are able to see the things he sees.



Whilst its true that it wasn't fully shut down, they did say it was not showing a memory. Thats more what I meant, in that it wasn't displaying a simulation at that particular moment. I've actually thought more about this today, and I came to another realisation. If it was the equivalent of a White Room as you both suggest, then essentially it could be loading in anything from Cal's DNA. As such, I think that we not only see his ancestors, but potentially any people that may have interacted with his ancestors. Essentially, this is how we could still see Arno and the like being present there. I mean yes, the scene was obviously made to show the audience that Callum was being initiated, but I like to think there is a rational explanation underneath all this.

Speaking of that scene, did anyone recognize any of the other ancestors? I tried to my best to see if there were any other recognizable characters, but Arno was the only one that stood out.



The novelization states that the Assassins are "springing from Cal's DNA, his mind, or his conscience- she (Sofia) was utterly unable to tell which." After that she yells "He is projecting images of the Brotherhood!". This all fits, but I still can't put a rationale on why he is able to converse with his mother, other than a Sync Nexus as you suggest (or the actual Isu Nexus).

Lmao, it sounds like the novelization author saw the movie and even they couldn't figure out what the hell was going on there. :D



*Inhales* Ohhh. I'm sat here with a Juno avatar, you wound me both. :D This is probably the one topic where I'll disagree with you guys though. Sofia's dialogue;

"The Bible tells us it contains the seed of man's first disobedience. But there are those who believe it has its basis in science. That within its genetic code, God - or some ancient civilization - has left us a roadmap to understand why people are violent."

To me, that is far too vague an explanation as to where it came from, and what its purpose is. I can understand why a lot of critics and movie goers were confused as to why there was no 'real' apple, as they likely referred in their minds to what is essentially the common biblical story of Eden and an actual real apple. Given that the film was on the short side, I personally do not think it would have hurt to have shown a very brief scene of Adam and Eve stealing the Apple. The Truth video in AC2 blew me away the very first time I saw it, and I was desperate to understand more about what happened to this version of humanity's history. I feel a similar short scene would have done enough to separate from the biblical tale, and left a degree of mystery and wonder for audiences. In my view it was this lack of a background that made the Apple's purpose and appearance a point of confusion for many.

I'm not opposed to including the Isu, just not in the first movie out of a (planned) trilogy. AC1 didn't throw everything at us all at once either. Back then it was mind-blowing enough to learn that what we knew as the biblical creation myth actually hid a far bigger secret. Even AC2 gradually drops hints at the Roman gods/goddesses before Minerva reveals herself to us. We go around collecting statues at Monteriggioni and those statues unlock secret treasures, plus Alta´r's Codex suggests that all religions may have stemmed from the same, mysterious source. When Minerva appears, she basically confirms things we have already begun to suspect.

So yeah, if they move forward with a sequel (looking kind of unlikely at this point, sadly, but I'm not giving up hope yet), I expect we'll start to get more hints about the Isu. I'm just glad they didn't try to cram it into the first film when it already had so much to establish.

joshoolhorst
01-04-2017, 09:49 AM
OMGGG I totally forgot to mention this in my review. Loved it!! :D It wasn't in-your-face like "see what we did there?" but a very subtle nod to the games.

I'm not opposed to including the Isu, just not in the first movie out of a (planned) trilogy. AC1 didn't throw everything at us all at once either. Back then it was mind-blowing enough to learn that what we knew as the biblical creation myth actually hid a far bigger secret. Even AC2 gradually drops hints at the Roman gods/goddesses before Minerva reveals herself to us. We go around collecting statues at Monteriggioni and those statues unlock secret treasures, plus Alta´r's Codex suggests that all religions may have stemmed from the same, mysterious source. When Minerva appears, she basically confirms things we have already begun to suspect.

So yeah, if they move forward with a sequel (looking kind of unlikely at this point, sadly, but I'm not giving up hope yet), I expect we'll start to get more hints about the Isu. I'm just glad they didn't try to cram it into the first film when it already had so much to establish.

Resident Evil got 5 movie sequels... For reasons so I still have hope for Assassin's Creed 2

SixKeys
01-04-2017, 04:37 PM
Resident Evil got 5 movie sequels... For reasons so I still have hope for Assassin's Creed 2

Resident Evil was a surprise hit with non-gamers. I didn't care for the first one so I have no idea how they managed to make so many more, but their budget was probably a lot smaller than AC's.

darthmarticus
01-04-2017, 11:03 PM
As for the apple confusion, I just assumed that they've obviously been focused on this one apple for the last few months or even longer, so it makes sense to refer to it as 'the apple' - there's no other main apple around taking their immediate interest. What I don't understand is why it had that unique look in the past, but then looked like a regular apple in modern day. Bizarre.

As for the removal of the finger, I always assumed some Assassins groups would still do that as a sign of commitment, not that the blades needed it. This explain why he only had a finger removed on one hand, and why Cal didn't need it.

The only other thing that bothered me was the whole Templar get together in a big hall adorned with crosses in the middle of London. Not very conspicuous for a 'secret organisation'.

joshoolhorst
01-05-2017, 10:48 PM
Speaking about Eagle Vision I remember they had a interview they were including Eagle Vision but I am glad they didn't because it is kinda to much for a two hour movie

Sorrosyss
01-07-2017, 03:42 PM
http://i.imgur.com/xE62d6I.png

Seems we got an official (sorta) response on the finger amputations from the official Facebook page.

(credit to Access The Animus, and my friend Marco.)

Sorrosyss
01-21-2017, 04:42 PM
Two new updates for today.

One, the new novel Tomb of The Khan is the first lore to be released post movie, and specifically states that the new versions of the Animus are "much faster, more stable, and reliable than using Helix." So that explains the Helix situation - somewhat.

Secondly, courtesy of The Ones Who Came Before (https://twitter.com/ACfirstciv), we have this intriguing image. We know there were reshoots, we know there were rewrites, but there are FIVE Assassins shown at the ending here. Is that Nathan at the end? (he should be dead!)

http://i.imgur.com/FpcNbn7.png

Hmmm!

sebastianmk
01-21-2017, 11:52 PM
Two new updates for today.

One, the new novel Tomb of The Khan is the first lore to be released post movie, and specifically states that the new versions of the Animus are "much faster, more stable, and reliable than using Helix." So that explains the Helix situation - somewhat.

Secondly, courtesy of The Ones Who Came Before (https://twitter.com/ACfirstciv), we have this intriguing image. We know there were reshoots, we know there were rewrites, but there are FIVE Assassins shown at the ending here. Is that Nathan at the end? (he should be dead!)

http://i.imgur.com/FpcNbn7.png

Hmmm!

Sorrosyss, If you remember, articles from a set visit appeared on May 2016... and they have info regarding the role of actress Octavia Selena Alexandru who played "Lara", and she was described in articles as :

".. the teenager Lara, (played by Octavia Selena Alexandru) who grew up in Abstergo and knows all the secrets of the company. She is able to draw the portrait of the other prisoners, and remains the favorite of Dr. [Alan] Rikkin. The girl grew up to become a member of the Templar Order, but she gradually discovers that she has the soul of an Assassin..."

she shoot escenes with fassbender and appeared in the first trailer ( Assassin's Creed - Trailer World Premiere) at minute 1:26 as seen here : http://www.avantiproductions.co.uk/Lara.jpg

the press saw a scene being filmed :

" The journalists of the source, along with other British press representers watched a scene of the movie while it was shot, where characters Callum Lynch and Lara, played respectively by Michael Fassbender and Octavia Selena Alexandru, stood face to face, separated by a large transparent window. The sound was not audible but it seemed that the girl was drawing Callum in her notebook, while he talks. "

but she was cut from the movie, who knows why...

this info can be found here : https://www.facebook.com/AccessTheAnimus/posts/805308042903440:0

Sorrosyss
01-22-2017, 01:21 PM
Thanks Sebastian. I recall when she was announced there was a lot of theories as to why she was Rikkin's 'favourite'. It's a shame she got cut completely though, to be honest I didn't even remember she'd gone after I'd seen the movie.

I can only guess they figured they had too many characters with too few dialogue. Nathan barely spoke, Lin's lines were cut, so another near silent character might have got a bit much.

Still, i'd have liked to know who her ancestor was... that fighting stance is not particularly familiar. Maybe Evie? Hmm.

Would be nice if she's on the Blu Ray, but I somehow can't see it.

"Justice for Lara"

:p

Sorrosyss
02-11-2017, 03:25 PM
Well, further to my last, seems Lara will be on the Blu Ray after all! Apparently the Blu Ray will feature 15 minutes of deleted scenes.

The first deleted scene has been released online;

http://usat.ly/2kujsUz

If you thought the final hallucination scene was confusing to begin with, look at this version! Even Maria is there - though I suspect this may now actually mean that Lara's ancestor was in fact Maria.

http://i.imgur.com/W79FjE5.png

[Credit to Access The Animus (https://www.facebook.com/AccessTheAnimus/?fref=nf)]

joshoolhorst
02-11-2017, 04:41 PM
Well, further to my last, seems Lara will be on the Blu Ray after all! Apparently the Blu Ray will feature 15 minutes of deleted scenes.

The first deleted scene has been released online;

http://usat.ly/2kujsUz

If you thought the final hallucination scene was confusing to begin with, look at this version! Even Maria is there - though I suspect this may now actually mean that Lara's ancestor was in fact Maria.

http://i.imgur.com/W79FjE5.png

[Credit to Access The Animus (https://www.facebook.com/AccessTheAnimus/?fref=nf)]

Seems like Ezio was also in the movie but got cut

Edit: Wait it was Yusuf my bad

Glad this scene got cut if you ask me and redone

SixKeys
02-11-2017, 04:44 PM
Seems like Ezio was also in the movie but got cut

That's not Ezio, that's Yusuf from Revelations.

joshoolhorst
02-11-2017, 04:46 PM
That's not Ezio, that's Yusuf from Revelations.

I know I edited my post when I noticed my mistake

Sorrosyss
03-25-2017, 01:46 PM
A recent Reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/60pj33/i_am_aymar_azaizia_head_of_content_for_assassins/)with Aymar Aza´zia gave us a lot of answers to some of the lingering lore questions including the status on 'the Apple', Ojeda, the Elders, Discovery, and the final hallucination. I've updated as appropriate.

Its also been confirmed that Danny Wallace had a brief cameo (presumably as Shaun) in the movie, but was sadly cut. This perhaps explains why Shaun is mentioned as being in Madrid at the same time within the transmedia.

darthmarticus
03-25-2017, 08:02 PM
Its also been confirmed that Danny Wallace had a brief cameo (presumably as Shaun) in the movie, but was sadly cut. This perhaps explains why Shaun is mentioned as being in Madrid at the same time within the transmedia.

How could they film that and cut it! :(

joshoolhorst
06-21-2017, 01:11 PM
Sorry to say this but it's bad you have to go to an AMA or the Twiter page to get a answer for the movie

ze_topazio
06-24-2017, 01:33 AM
Ezio Auditore de la la la

http://i.imgur.com/U7D84Td.png



I thought this was a nice touch. In my view this is clearly a reference to Ezio and the Assassins Creed II Discovery game for Nintendo DS and IoS that released in 2009. Within the storyline of that game, Ezio was actually in the Granada region of Spain at the same time as Aguilar and co in 1491, and even came close to assassinating Torquemada himself.

It is perhaps a sad thought that no true cameo of the great Assassin was made in the movie, given this obvious overlap in game and movie timelines.

UPDATE: In a recent Reddit AMA, Aymar Aza´zia confirmed that Discovery is now no longer considered canon within the franchise. That explains that one then.



You may want to update this, after some fans came up with an explanation for why Discovery can still work, Aymar Aza´zia decided to make Discovery canon again.

Sorrosyss
06-24-2017, 06:12 PM
True, I remember reading that too. My bad. Updated. Thanks!

Syndicate122
06-28-2017, 07:58 AM
>Didn't they talk in one of the comics how Animus is better than Helix, though?

Helix is the OS and Animus is the hardware,what do you mean Helix is better than animus?its like saying the Windows 10 is better than a desktop PC