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View Full Version : The HUD presents an imersion issue.



JahzShammah
12-29-2016, 09:58 PM
Too many things are flashing on screen, creative director Jason VandenBerghe has a vision that the player feels like they were actrually there when playing and felt like a true warrior in battle. this is not possible with pulsating blue or purple beams and blue flames radiating off of players who activated buffs it takes a game set in antiquity and almost makes it sci fi. some of the latest elimination game play is the worst example of this with little icons floating around the players bodies you just can't feel like you where there, please therefore, i'm begging you if nothing else at least make this optional.

In battlefield 1 you can turn off the HUD and immedaitly it feels like your in a movie or there for real. It's true this does present gameplay challenges like not knowing who's on your team or where objectives are, but with for honour the colour schemes of opposing sides and the need to get up close to duel an opponent makes those drawbacks irrelevent.

In this mode buffs wouldn't ruin the immersion, Revenge mode would be obvious because the player would still roar and throw me on the ground and if it is a passive buff i'd still se the flag in the ground so despite not seeing the effect i'd still know there was a buff activated.

Granted other buffs are more obscure... perhaps then information like for those cases could be as minimal as possible so say I've turned the Hud off but now my opponent has increased attack or defence from a buff just a singular exclamation mark atop his head when the buff is activated could alert me. that would be better the pulsing ultraviolet purple rays going all over the place because honestly those effects just cover the beautiful detail the game makers have put into character and environment design

Please consider, acknowlege and reply to suggestion

DrExtrem
12-30-2016, 09:00 AM
in this game, it is a necessary evil - at least in pvp.

i saw a video on youtube, where people stated that it is possible to turn off the hud elements in single player. ctually, this happens on the highest difficulty level. naturally, the game gets more difficult without the enemy telling you, what stance he/she has chosen and whether the attack is part of a combo or not.

my gess is, that it is not possible for players to play without the hud in pvp combat. people without would be at a disadvantage and competitive pvp is based on having he same "ruleset" for everybody. in addition. if you decide to play without hud and get hammered every turm by the enemies, you are hampering your own team. that would not be cool.

maybe thy add private modes where you can set the rulesets by yourself. difficulty level (hud), number of bots on each team, game mode etc.

that would be really cool.

Orisoll
01-01-2017, 03:45 AM
Clearly Ubisoft felt they needed to make it easier to get into while retaining that high-level challenge more experienced players will thrive on. Early gameplay didn't have so much HUD cluttering the screen, but somewhere along the line they must've concluded that the lowest common denominator would quit once they discovered there was a hefty learning curve. I'm fine with the excessive UI elements, but a specific game type or rule set to disable it would be very much appreciated.

AeraLure
01-05-2017, 07:14 PM
I think it could have been much more subtle. Not everyone needs flashing neon color as an indicator that something is going on.

JahzShammah
01-07-2017, 01:10 AM
But as I said battlefield is a pvp based game, and they don't have a hud.

It should be up to the player to decide hud could be a default for those who feel they need it, but we should be able to disable it if we feel confident

Since it can be done in single player it is a learnable skill to be undertaken by those who feel they can

DraxeI
01-08-2017, 09:46 AM
A more customizable HUD was a very requested feature in the september Closed-Alpha test, so it is likely we'll see a feature like that in the beta or at release.

waraidako
01-09-2017, 09:26 PM
HUD design should always strive to be minimalistic IMO. Whenever you consider adding something, you should ask if it's really necessary, or if it can better be told through ingame cues and hints. And when it is necessary, how much is needed should be taken into consideration. Do you really need a HUD element to take up 25% of the screen etc. etc.

There are HUD elements in For Honor that are necessary. But I think the HUD is cluttered right now.

http://i.imgur.com/xp27raQ.gif

1. The scoreboard in the top right corner is larger than necessary
2. The team icon next to the enemy name is pointless, the enemies are colour coded already and you can't lock onto friendlies.
3. The guard break icon is pointless
4. The guard directional arrows are too big
5. The controller stick icon in the middle doesn't serve a purpose. The arrows are highlighted, and the character gives off an animation cue as to their stance, no need for a third thing to tell us the exact same information.
6. The circle around the feet of the enemy is fairly pointless. Some people might like it, but for most of us it's obvious who we're locked onto. We don't need that indicator.
7. All of these 3D HUD elements are pointless. The same information is available on the radar.
8. Once you've learned the controls, L1 Quickchat is just clutter. It should be something you can disable.

The healthbars are probably the least egregious part of it. Sure they too could be simplified and reduced in size, but they're fine. The game is beautiful, don't hide it behind a bunch of unnecessary HUD elements.

Mr_Gallows
01-10-2017, 12:14 PM
It's the same with all Ubisoft games. They have beautiful game worlds and then they spray these hud elements all over just to make sure no one gets too immersed in the game. Instead of big white icons representing pickups - how about some actual models of the pick ups in the game with a slight glow?

Instead of all the borders around control points being big fat lines, how about making an ingame representation of where the zone is and a physican ingame flag getting raised to signify capture progress.

I have never seen more intrusive HUDs than in UBIsoft games. It would be nice if they some day figured out to do all these things in a different way. Game world icons really suck.

What do we need from the HUD?

1. The Block tri-thingy
2. Health / stamina
3. Skills

Remove everything else and make a way to represent it naturally in the game world. You can have a minimap to find control points instead of having all these game world icons littering the screen.

LastMoh1can
01-12-2017, 08:23 PM
You nailed all the problems ive seen so far with the HUD man, nice perception! thats exactly what the devs should think of if they decide to reduce the HUD, making perfect for an Hardcore Mode i was so hyped for :D I couldnt have said it better myself

I really dont like all those neon flashes, give us more blood instead and (going a little off topic) maybe even cause wounds on the target, as an aesthetic indicator for -practically speaking- making attacks in that specific region (left/ top&torso /right) deal more damage based on some math between your weapon and the target's armor, like for example having X% chance of piercing through armor and causing wounds, but maybe its for another thread.

There are way too many icons and flashes on the screen, all of them pointless. Like when you do an guardbreak there is a "shockwave" with white neons and an icon JUST TO SHOW WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW, you did an guardbreak......... and the animation is the best indicator you have, not neons and icons. All of this make this game so.....Disney....so casual....that really breaks all the immersion for me. Sometimes it looks like Street Fighter, with all the effects coming from every action you do :/

waraidako
01-12-2017, 11:09 PM
You nailed all the problems ive seen so far with the HUD man, nice perception! thats exactly what the devs should think of if they decide to reduce the HUD, making perfect for an Hardcore Mode i was so hyped for :D I couldnt have said it better myself

I really dont like all those neon flashes, give us more blood instead and (going a little off topic) maybe even cause wounds on the target, as an aesthetic indicator for -practically speaking- making attacks in that specific region (left/ top&torso /right) deal more damage based on some math between your weapon and the target's armor, like for example having X% chance of piercing through armor and causing wounds, but maybe its for another thread.

There are way too many icons and flashes on the screen, all of them pointless. Like when you do an guardbreak there is a "shockwave" with white neons and an icon JUST TO SHOW WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW, you did an guardbreak......... and the animation is the best indicator you have, not neons and icons. All of this make this game so.....Disney....so casual....that really breaks all the immersion for me. Sometimes it looks like Street Fighter, with all the effects coming from every action you do :/

That part already happens. If you look at the gif you can see already going into it the blue kensei has a gash across his stomach, and when he gets poked he gets another one on his left shoulder. When I played the alpha my warden pretty much always had a huge gash in her helmet because I had ****ed up and gotten smashed in the face. :D

In fact, looking at the gif I think the orange kensei has that too. A gash across the helmet with blood stains on the right side.

xLeapingLizardx
01-12-2017, 11:25 PM
Even though I mostly agree that the HUD goes a little overboard most of the time, a lot of the stuff y'all are claiming is pointless may not be so.

The team Icon next to the health of all warriors is very important in my opinion. That is usually the very first thing I look at when I see another character. ESPECIALLY at zone B where there are a whole bunch of soldiers and I don't have time to identify if a character is wearing blue or red.

The white circle underneath your targeted opponent I agree is a little big. Middle ground could be just making the circle much thinner and not so intrusive, same with the directional arrows. I don't really have an opinion on the R Stick symbol in the middle of the arrows... Although it may be largely pointless once you understand the game, but It doesn't bother me so much.

Finally, I disagree that the guard break icon is pointless. They display that so that when you are guard broken you know immediately, so that you are able to respond with counter guard break. This game is a skill based dueling game and if things happen to you and you have no idea what, that would be a problem. EXAMPLE: Being white or blinking white while being hit means uninterruptable, The flame thing when you swing means unblockable, your character blinking red means you are taking bleed damage, and they also have a kind of orange flame to indicate a "push" or whatever such as the Warden's shoulder charge and Warlord's head-butt. These indicators are there so that you can know exactly what's happening to you, why blocking didn't work, why you couldn't move, or what you will expect the next time you see that indicator. Without these indicators there would be much more "Oh how did I just die?" or "Why did I block and still get hit". They are there so you have all the information that you need to fight back.

Also the buffs were brought up. I didn't really like the idea of those buffs in elimination myself; However, If they are sticking with these buffs the indicators would really be needed. Blue flames on the feet indicate increased movement speed. If you ran from someone and they caught up to you and killed you, you wouldn't understand how they were so fast without seeing the indication of increased movement speed by the blue flames on his feet. Same with blue flames on the hand indicating increased damage. Without it there would be a bunch of "how is this guy doing so much damage".

One last note: you really can't compare their current builds with the one back in E3 2015.. That was probably way before they had the idea of different combos, uninterruptable, unblockable, and even different classes.

All in all I think they can easily find a middle ground with the HUD and indicators. Making most things less intrusive and taking some of the less important flashy elements out would be a good step. Even though I think Hardcore mode would be awesome, I fear it just be a bunch of unblockable and uninterruptable attacks ruling that game type since you wouldn't be able to tell that that was happening.... Still hope they add it though haha!

LastMoh1can
01-12-2017, 11:34 PM
That part already happens. If you look at the gif you can see already going into it the blue kensei has a gash across his stomach, and when he gets poked he gets another one on his left shoulder. When I played the alpha my warden pretty much always had a huge gash in her helmet because I had ****ed up and gotten smashed in the face. :D

In fact, looking at the gif I think the orange kensei has that too. A gash across the helmet with blood stains on the right side.

thats nice :D i didnt know that already happens, but to be honest, i hardly noticed those marks on the kensei, they made the wounds really small in some situations. But its awesome to know this :D

waraidako
01-13-2017, 12:55 AM
The simple solution is to just let us turn off HUD elements as we please. Me turning off circles around the feet, or the stick icon, or guard break icon, doesn't effect anyone else, after all. The main one where I really want them to change it for everyone, is the guard directional arrows. They are so big! And I get that not everyone has a 32 inch monitor, but at least have a few options or something. Large, regular, small, minimalistic, etc. etc. or let me resize it manually.

xLeapingLizardx
01-13-2017, 02:35 AM
The simple solution is to just let us turn off HUD elements as we please. Me turning off circles around the feet, or the stick icon, or guard break icon, doesn't effect anyone else, after all. The main one where I really want them to change it for everyone, is the guard directional arrows. They are so big! And I get that not everyone has a 32 inch monitor, but at least have a few options or something. Large, regular, small, minimalistic, etc. etc. or let me resize it manually.

Not saying that I think this is a bad idea or that I disagree with it. But I could see something happen where people start using that as an excuse on why they lose. "Oh you only beat me because I have my HUD turned off" or "Turn your HUD off like a real fighter, scrub". There is already talk that throwing people off cliffs or into spikes is considered "dishonorable"; so I wouldn't be surprised if using the HUD started becoming a symbol of "no skill" or "dishonorableness". As far-fetched as that possibility sounds, it could happen, especially with certain gamers nowadays.

I still think the middle ground of just generally minimizing the HUD where possible is a better solution that keeps everyone on equal footing. Or just adding a Hardcore mode for the purists. Either way though I wouldn't mind the option to personally customize/turn-off the HUD as I please. As you said, doesn't really effect anyone else.

waraidako
01-13-2017, 03:48 AM
Blaming various other things when you lose is the hallmark of a true scrub anyway, so who cares what people like that say? I'm the type of gamer who will play multiplayer shooters and only use a revolver, when everyone else is running around with assault rifles. If I put myself at a disadvantage because I think that's fun, I have no one to blame but myself when I get killed. Same thing here. If you could turn off guard break icons and you miss one because of it, that's on you. Whining about it just makes them sore losers, and nobody likes those.

xLeapingLizardx
01-13-2017, 06:22 AM
Blaming various other things when you lose is the hallmark of a true scrub anyway, so who cares what people like that say? I'm the type of gamer who will play multiplayer shooters and only use a revolver, when everyone else is running around with assault rifles. If I put myself at a disadvantage because I think that's fun, I have no one to blame but myself when I get killed. Same thing here. If you could turn off guard break icons and you miss one because of it, that's on you. Whining about it just makes them sore losers, and nobody likes those.

Good points! I guess what I am saying is that it gives people more things that they can create an excuse from. examples from other games I've played are: Gears of War, people would complain about people using actives. MMO's, "oh you only beat me because I am not on my main account that is level 118". Call of Duty, a quick-scoping sniper would complain that someone hard-scopes. All of these examples are of people complaining when they had a choice of utilizing a part of a game and choosing not to, but then go and antagonize someone else for using it. They had a choice weather to active reload, use their best character, or hard scope, but they chose not to. They still complain even though it was their choice.

Again this probably is less likely to happen in this scenario but I wouldn't eliminate the possibility. I think what we are really learning here is that gamers are going to find a way to complain with the ability to customize their HUD and without it. lol

waraidako
01-13-2017, 11:45 AM
The best thing for those people, just reply once with "git gud, scrub" and just sit back and enjoy the fireworks. Don't engage again, don't make it a conversation, just that one phrase to dismiss their entire argument. They get so angry, it's so much fun. :D

MusCanus
01-14-2017, 06:42 AM
While totally agree with the OP I would rather suggest making all those HUD elements and buffs look eh... more uniform. Say, instead of floating shields (Elimination defence buff) - the whole body greenish hue like the revenge yellow one. Or none at all. The HP increase is clearly visible from the HUD.

Instead of glowing circles around banners and the such - simple border line like the ones that indicate zones borders in Dominion.

Some of the feat icons look ugly in comparison to others accurate and geometrical ones (for example, Vikings Fury feat icon).

And so on.

Fatal-Feit
01-14-2017, 09:40 AM
While totally agree with the OP I would rather suggest making all those HUD elements and buffs look eh... more uniform. Say, instead of floating shields (Elimination defence buff) - the whole body greenish hue like the revenge yellow one. Or none at all. The HP increase is clearly visible from the HUD.

Instead of glowing circles around banners and the such - simple border line like the ones that indicate zones borders in Dominion.

Some of the feat icons look ugly in comparison to others accurate and geometrical ones (for example, Vikings Fury feat icon).

And so on.

Yes, exactly. It's not the amount of UI on screen that's the problem; it's their design. I preach this all the time. It doesn't look bad, but they could be much, MUCH simpler and clean. I was playing a demo of a highly anticipated game of mine a few weeks ago, Nier Automata (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGGhSCuhJUk), and something I realized by the end of it was just how incredibly clean the game looked throughout. The UI design was elegant and matched the art style so well that it blended into the experience without obscuring my immersion. The health bar, the tutorial, lock-on, damage numbers, map, particle effects, I never had an issue with any of them.

Gothic_Shadow
01-15-2017, 09:59 AM
I think they should add a "Hardcore" Mode where all the HUD elements are turned off. that way people who want to play without the HUD can and have a mode for it and it would be alot more competitive.

bent_toe
01-15-2017, 09:22 PM
The fix for this is simple.

Outline, some icons and all flashing stuff should disappear after lvl 20. Just keeping the basic.

Lvl 1-20 is probably enough hours to learn the game and then its time for the big boys game.

xLeapingLizardx
01-16-2017, 06:57 AM
The fix for this is simple.

Outline, some icons and all flashing stuff should disappear after lvl 20. Just keeping the basic.

Lvl 1-20 is probably enough hours to learn the game and then its time for the big boys game.

I don't think that would work because that's 20 levels of practicing with the HUD and then it suddenly goes away without the option of bringing it back. Also, if you run into a lower level while you are a higher level then it turns into a massively handicapped fight.

You may say the fix is then to basically have a playlist for levels 1-20's and that playlist goes away while another one (the 20+ playlist) opens up. The problem with that would be that once the game is well into its time there would just be a bunch of high levels playing and fighting with no HUD. The developers of this game mainly want the HUD used because that's the way they have designed it. They likely want the majority of players using the HUD and having the HUD taken off at higher levels defeats their vision for the game.

It's kind of like saying at level 50 they then take away your ability to block all together. Blocking is a main component of the game, as is their HUD.

Vejymonster
01-16-2017, 07:30 AM
The game looks beautiful, but the HUD has Ubisoft written all over it. I wouldn't mind the HUD sticking around if it didn't look so jarring in comparison to the game world. At least keep it in-line with the game's art style. I know it's supposed to stand out, but it just looks ugly and serves only to break immersion. Nothing pulls me out of the experience like a bunch of glowing holograms.

MusCanus
01-16-2017, 07:55 AM
The game looks beautiful, but the HUD has Ubisoft written all over it. I wouldn't mind the HUD sticking around if it didn't look so jarring in comparison to the game world. At least keep it in-line with the game's art style. I know it's supposed to stand out, but it just looks ugly and serves only to break immersion. Nothing pulls me out of the experience like a bunch of glowing holograms.

Aye, this version of Animus interface is kinda broken =)


... I was playing a demo of a highly anticipated game of mine a few weeks ago, Nier Automata (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGGhSCuhJUk), and something I realized by the end of it was just how incredibly clean the game looked throughout. The UI design was elegant and matched the art style so well that it blended into the experience without obscuring my immersion. The health bar, the tutorial, lock-on, damage numbers, map, particle effects, I never had an issue with any of them.
Maybe it is too minimalistic to serve as an example for FH, but it looks really cool.

Orisoll
01-22-2017, 02:20 PM
Look at the difference between the original gameplay and what we have now:

Old HUD (0:40):

https://youtu.be/AklfGck7KUI?t=40s

New HUD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_rxH8uN0vQ

LastMoh1can
01-23-2017, 01:44 AM
look even the blood splashes, there wasnt any neon or sayajin effects coming from everywhere (except revenge mode), just pure combat, all you could see was blood and sparks coming out from the blades and armors.... that was ideal. They implemented so much arcade-disney effects that makes me sorry for the immersion the game hopes to bring us. The feats are highly exaggerated and looks like voodoo magic with that 5m aura radius and glowing like a fungus. Make those feats something more "discreet" and maybe let them have actual models instead of magic auras, such as when you get an armor/speed/damage feat in deathmatch. Make it an anesthetic plant, medicine or repair hammer, instead of sayajin auras.

The old HUD was so much better, dont know why they had to change it, and I know that old gameplay was somewhat scripted and masked... you cant even see the scoreboard there, but that was all. I could play just fine in that old HUD, i hope they bring it back or at least make an option to disable HUD.

I want this so bad that i rather play with the HUD off than to play with this new one...

x(

xLeapingLizardx
01-23-2017, 03:39 AM
Look at the difference between the original gameplay and what we have now:

Old HUD (0:40):

https://youtu.be/AklfGck7KUI?t=40s

New HUD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_rxH8uN0vQ

Like I've previously stated that it's pretty unfair to compare the look of the game in it's infancy to the look of it now.

Just take a second to think about it and imagine why they needed to make changes or what was different from the current build to that build 2 years ago.

The old footage could easily be before any of the following things were put into the game:
1. Other classes
2. Unblockable attacks
3. Uninterruptable attacks
4. Revive option
5. Feats
6. Feints
7. Stamina

Even in the footage you can't see Health bars or control points, that in itself should tell you that you really shouldn't compare the two builds.

Lastly, I'll say this again I think the middle ground is for them to minimalize the HUD as much as they can. Even if they kept everything largely the same but just not so intrusive. (Because again a lot of the HUD is needed to make it a balanced fighting game..)
Also I think a sort of "Hardcore Mode" would be nice! (Even though I still think it would be ruled by unblockable and uninterruptable attacks since there would be no way of knowing that's what they are without HUD indicators.)