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View Full Version : Great work on AI in AEP, Oleg.



SeaFireLIV
04-01-2004, 02:35 AM
Just had to say again... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
04-01-2004, 02:35 AM
Just had to say again... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VVS-Manuc
04-01-2004, 02:44 AM
Yes...AI wingman shoot me down when attacking my target http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-01-2004, 02:51 AM
Then stop trying to steal their kills all the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Neo-X-
04-01-2004, 03:29 AM
Seafire, I have to agree to you again! AI's doing a great job now. And to those AI-killed-ones.. You don't really want to say that you get blasted away by your wingmen ALL the time. Since I have got AEP installed they hit me about 5 times and only once I got killed.
*** OLEG, KEEP UP YOUR GREAT WORK ***
I hope PF gets even better then il2 is at the moment..

*** Sorry for my rather bad english http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ***

JG51_Arnie
04-01-2004, 05:22 AM
I agree that the AI is alot better now. And I hardly ever get shot at by my wingmen, might it be that I started with the lowest rank possible?
I think that in the many missions I played up till now I got hit two times and not even badly.

Jetbuff
04-01-2004, 09:17 AM
I have yet to see anything that looked "scripted" or moronic from AI in AEP.

e.g. a flight of laggs bounced our BF110 flight. Aside from the speed at which they attacked us, it was great to see them DISENGAGE when one of them was pinged by my 20mm. He seemed to just go "To heck with it, I don't want to die today," and head home. It was extremely refreshing to say the least.


If you want absolute proof of how the AI has changed, set up a bunch of 190's to attack B-17s or similar bombers. Watch them climb to directly above the formation and dive in at high speed to attack before veering off. It's AWESOME!

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

JG53Keil
04-01-2004, 09:39 AM
About AI, when do 70mm Tanks stop shooting at enemy planes? The AI-Planes become really better

III/JG53*Keil Staffelf├╝hrer 8.Staffel III/JG53

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/keil.gif (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

Luftcaca
04-01-2004, 10:01 AM
"Then stop trying to steal their kills all the time"

yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiight, like it would change something lol

last day I was playing my IL2 campaign. For some reason , ALL my wingmen crashed on the ground for some reason, I swear it was hilarious to see em all ******s commiting suicides http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

then I was engaged by two 109 g2, one flew by none else than Rall himself. While he was pursuing one of the Mig that was escorting "us", I managed to hit him with 20mm shells.
He ignored it, continued his pursue of the Mig which was already smoking big black thick smoke.
Finally Rall crashed on the ground after some time cuz his plane was too damaged to perform the low alt manoeuvers he was trying to pull.

Yes...the AI IS GREAT I TELL YA!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LEXX_Luthor
04-01-2004, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>one flew by none else than Rall himself. While he was pursuing one of the Mig that was escorting "us", I managed to hit him with 20mm shells.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In real life if you see Rall then you get out of his way, unless....

...we are better Aces then Rall, then Rall needs to get out of our way. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Me~163 Takeoff Bug will be Patched "soon"....use airstart for now.


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Luftcaca
04-01-2004, 11:30 AM
"In real life if you see Rall then you get out of his way, unless...."

lol in real life I meet Rall, I prolly never gonna tell anyone http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif the thing is, do you think ACE AI should ignore 20mm hits and continue to pursue an already crippled Mig?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

SeaFireLIV
04-01-2004, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
I have yet to see anything that looked "scripted" or moronic from AI in AEP.

e.g. a flight of laggs bounced our BF110 flight. Aside from the speed at which they attacked us, it was great to see them DISENGAGE when one of them was pinged by my 20mm. He seemed to just go "To heck with it, I don't want to die today," and head home. It was extremely refreshing to say the least.


If you want absolute proof of how the AI has changed, set up a bunch of 190's to attack B-17s or similar bombers. Watch them climb to directly above the formation and dive in at high speed to attack before veering off. It's AWESOME!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice to see you discover the good stuff, jetbuff. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV...

SeaFireLIV
04-01-2004, 11:58 AM
This is what I discovered about the AI and posted in GD earlier. Don`t believe everything you hear, ESPECIALLY if untested whines, because the changes are BIG.

Here`s what I found. And it`s all true:

OFFLINE AI in Campaign. Using Lagg3` 41, I16`s vs 109s/110s. P40s/Spitfire vs G2s, LA5s, vs FWS, King Cobra vs Jets and FWS D9s, 109s.

1. AI aircraft in formations are more spaced out. This goes for your team too.

2. Collisions greatly reduced. (But not totally eliminated- and they shouldn`t be).

Combat AI:

3. Faster B&Z aircraft will attempt to B&Z you if they can.

4. They will try to AMBUSH you too. While you concentrate on one pair, another pair will stay high and try to make it`s way round and behind then dive on you. (Only just discovered this one).

5. They`ll try to outrun you if faster.

6. They`ll try to drag you to the enemy AF if you`re on them and they`re alone.

7. They`ll avoid a friendly AF if you make it there. But it`s not the AF itself but Flak. In one case I flew to a friendly airfield, but there was no flak, the AI continued after me.
7b. But there avoidance of AF flak is not gauranteed. Once again raced to a friendly AF with plenty of flak being chased by 2 109s and 2 110s. They continued right on through that flak after me. Only one escaped alived. It varies.

8. AI avoidance routines are good in combat and appear much more believable. In my Lagg3`41 I slightly smoked a lone 109, I overshot him as he barreled rolled me, then my 3 wingmen got on his six. I stayed close by. The 109 used it`s speed and looped up high, then hammer headed right and down still being chased by these eager friendlies. He crested the tops of the trees and up again. One of the friendlies hit the trees and exploded. I was impressed, This guy`s good, I thought. He actually got on an AI`s six and fired, And still aggressive! He didn`t seem to want to run (perhaps the situation made it so he couldn`t). Then finally his engine began quitting he slowed and was shot down. I actually felt a bit sorry for that brave skilled AI pilot.

9. 110s and 109s will use speed and try to outdive you if they have the height. Was after a 110 and it dived hard- after a few seconds I had to abort or watch my plane fall apart! Brilliant!

Now all of this varies, so an AI plane won`t ALWAYS do the right manouever. Sometimes they will try to turn where they shouldn`t. That doesn`t make the AI stupid, it makes it seem more human. If AI always did perfect manouevers it would not be believable. Also, their moves seem helped a lot by their experience level, you really can tell a good pilot from a crap one.

I`m sure there`s more.

Negatives on AI (No such thing as perfect AI, otherwise it`d be Human, You`d have to give it rights! )

1. They DO still collide sometimes but this now happens far less and could now be considered human error as in reality.

2. I had one weird situation where my team ( I was number 4) were flying low over the trees on a bombing mission. There was an undulation to the ground... The leader flew with it easily, diving a little then pulling up to avoid the wood, but no 2 & 3 just ploughed straight into the trees. A fault of AI inexperience? Seen twice.

3. AI kill-stealing. The AI are eager to nick kills. Not a problem when overwhelmed by the enemy. I`ve learned to let them have the kill and to even nick a kill off them to make up for it. Most often I`ll just look elsewhere. I`ll take it for the other great improvements! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

There you go. Like I said a while before Oleg`s work is a lot more than what`s on the surface. The main work is involved and deep, so flying the sim for a bit on QMB then saying the `AI is just the same` is very misleading. One needs to fly the sim in depth and the really complex work shines out. Flying against the AI is a joy now, I never know what`s going to happen next.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Old1.jpg

It`s not about the Machine...
(aka: You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!)

Jetbuff
04-04-2004, 12:53 AM
I'll be sure to look for that ambush deal Seafire, I've seen a few high speed passes but never actually seen the AI 'set up' except againt bombers; wonder if it's a general routine now. Tx..

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

US_8th_Dosiere
04-04-2004, 02:17 AM
Overall the AI in AEP is indeed rather good.

Two things though that really need to be worked on.

Every fight has to be a battle to the death. It's dang hard to disengage, as the AI never wants to call it quits. For example: It would be nice if my flight of 109s, being outnumbered, could just make a pass at the enemy and then run for it like they did in real life.

They(the AI) do not know how to crash land. They cant tell the difference between forested and non-forested areas apparently, which is a shame because in the offline campaign I lose some good pilots from my squad to this.

Mr_Brot
04-04-2004, 04:48 AM
Hello, I'm new here

As a pure Offline-player I really appreciate the many AI-improvements. This is what I observed:

AI Bf 109s now are dangerous enemies. In AEP I recently lost a battle against four Bf 109s (g6late I think) while flying with a squadron of eight Yak-9U. They attacked from above and destroyed two planes on their first pass (including my own). This would never happen before AEP.

Another improvement I've not yet seen mentioned here.
In AEP AI Il-2s and Stukas (maybe other planes as well) attack nearby planes after destroying their ground targets. Also Stukas now Strafe their ground targets if their bombs didn't destroy them. Sometimes this leads to rather strange scenes like a wing of Stukas trying to chase a Yak-9.

Another thing that has changed with AEP are escort missions.
Before AEP the AI escort fighters attacked every plane in sight and left the bomners to destroy a passing U-2 or Ju-52 while enemy interceptors shot down all bombers. Now with AEP they ignore everything that doesn't attack their bombers. Sadly this also includes enemies attacking the escort fighters themselves. Only when being shot at they react and defend themselves. When flying an escort mission as a wingman one has to call for help as soon as the enemy fighters attack or your wingleader will fly straight to the target.

But still there are some flaws that can make offline gameplay very frustrating:

On the Kuban map there is an airfield where all AI-planes trying to land there crashed into the same hill. I had to abort my campaign because every mission I lost all squadmates.

Another annoying thing since 1.0 is that if there is only one enemy plane left my whole squadron goes after it. The enemy plane flies circles at ground level with my squadron chasing it but they cannot catch him because they are not fast enough. So they fly in circles for hours until getting low on fuel, crashing into the ground or into each other. Also they completely ignore enemy AA-guns in that situation.
This happens often when the planes on both sides are about equal in speed.

All other improvements I noticed have already been mentioned.

SeaFireLIV
04-04-2004, 05:27 AM
Hello, Mr_Brot and thanx for your observations. Yep, there are still a few glitches with the AI, but at least it`s quite a lot better than it was. Even though I feel kinda `weak` in my I16 or lagg3 sometimes because of the tactics Axis AI will use against my plane, I enjoy it more than before. It means I have to be aware of my aircraft abilities. Again, just yesterday another 110 tried out diving me, I was determined NOT to lose him so I too pushed my dive while extending my combat flaps. But then I heard bits breaking off, tried to pull out, couldn`t- BOOM! Beaten by an AI 110`s tactics.

P.s. I`m sure Oleg`s taken some of these tactics from the way online players fly as well.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Old1.jpg

It`s not about the Machine...
(aka: You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!)

Extreme_One
04-04-2004, 06:10 AM
And I heard someone on another forum saying that the AI in the original IL-2 was better than the current AI!?!

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-spit_sig.jpg

SeaFireLIV
04-04-2004, 08:53 AM
Hmm, I may have seen that...

Well just had another 110 outdiving 2 pursuing Lagg3 `41 (It was my leader and his wingman). I was thinking that the AI never get caught out by the dive trick, but to my surprise both Laggs smashed into the ground and the 110 flew on happily. I was too high and by the time I got low enough he was gone!

VW-IceFire
04-04-2004, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
And I heard someone on another forum saying that the AI in the original IL-2 was better than the current AI!?!

_S! Simon_
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html.

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html. _*NEW*_

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-spit_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They are likely insane then.

I've never seen better AI than what we have right now. Its not perfect...AI always has room for improvement but they are challenging, fun, interesting, interactive, and downright scarry sometimes.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Luftcaca
04-04-2004, 12:24 PM
heh I read lately someone saying that friendly fire happened less often???

No way, in my Russian career, got hit by friendly fire 3 different times in the SAME mission!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

well at least it was only small caliber so I got no dmamage out of it but still, man...how annoying is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


yes, I admit it, the ennemy AI is slightly better, even if I often come home with 7 kills or more.

but the friendly AI is still not far from being completely pathetic, which makes the overall AI of the game still very defficient

pls Oleg do something...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
04-04-2004, 12:30 PM
What I wonder is why someone would try to mask the imperfections of the AI here.

This is supposed to be a place for discussing wishlists, bugs and asking what is up with future development.

Sorry but AI is STILL the weakest point in this game despite fantasies about AI tactics and performance.

I have been shot down by the ennemy. The problem is that I have been shot down more often by friendlies, though.

About the AI dragging you to their airfield. You must be sleeping since IL2 V1.0 to fail to notice that AI will often retreat in the worst moments, that the fact that he dragged you to his airfield was probably more of a COINCIDENCE than a calculated scheme.

Yesterday I saw the AI in his burning plane write "F*ck Y*u" in smoke letters before he blew apart, I am sure that this was intentionnal, wow AI is better.

Oh and I saw a Pe8 drop his bombs on a village after I shot him to pieces. If I remember well, one guy living down there was dating the pilot's sister, AI is better.

Quit the fantasy world, please.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

[This message was edited by LuftKuhMist on Sun April 04 2004 at 11:41 AM.]

Luftcaca
04-04-2004, 12:44 PM
WUAHHAHAHAAHAHAHA
thats totally hilarious

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

SeaFireLIV
04-04-2004, 02:17 PM
Who will believe who, I wonder? The considered tests and observations that I`ve spent time to find where shown the GOOD and BAD of AI, in a courteous manner?

Or the rantings of children who must use swear words to try and look clever?

Time will show the truth.

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Dark.jpg

LuftKuhMist
04-04-2004, 02:36 PM
That YOU find me brilliant or not is the last of my worries my friend.

These are also my observations. And speaking of tests, show me what is your testing methods for the AI, because before calling something a TEST you must make it methodic.

Sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention though. The fact is we must see what is coincidences and planified tactics in AI and I often see for example: "wow this is great I saw a BF109 climb away on purpose" when I see ALL PLANE TYPES (including bombers) try to climb away, I can't call this a planified action.

If you want to hear a positive point, AI tries to extend away from combat to return with a "surprise" attack but If I remember well it used to do it in FB.

But meanwhile I was again shot to pieces by my wingman and got killed in a matter of seconds.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Bearcat99
04-04-2004, 03:21 PM
While I must say the AI in FB is the best I have ever had..the 2.0 AI needs a little work. At the very least some kind of routine should be worked out to do the same thing with me that it does with AI on AI... like the "Watch it 6 your shooting at a friendly!!" when #6 shoots at any other friendly other than me. That is my only gripe with AI.. at least if it were random you could assume it is adding to realism..after all some pilots in RL were killed by thier fellow pilots who just plain made a mistake or couldnt see them. But it happens too often in 2.0 and it ONLY happens when the AI is shooting me..(or you).
Also often even when you tell the AI to drop thier bombs,rockets or whatever several times many of them still manage to come back to base with full tubes and bombs on thier racks......... The enemy AI is very challenging but the friendly AI needs work.

Other than that the AI is great!!

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
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LuftKuhMist
04-04-2004, 11:06 PM
Ok lets say I'd just have 3 gripes with AI, they would be: Friendly Fire, Kill stealing and energy management.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Skii_
04-05-2004, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
And I heard someone on another forum saying that the AI in the original IL-2 was better than the current AI!?!

_S! Simon_
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html.

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html. _*NEW*_

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-spit_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They are likely insane then.

I've never seen better AI than what we have right now. Its not perfect...AI always has room for improvement but they are challenging, fun, interesting, interactive, and downright scarry sometimes.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope

Not insane, well not when I last checked anyway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Why do I think the AI is better in the original IL2 ?

Bit of a harsh statement I admit, but the main crux of my point is that I no longer enjoy
offline play.

Ever since I fired up FB its the same damn silly routine, attack enemy plane, enemy plane reacts at specified distance with huge deceleration and
a series of impossible to follow barrel rolls,every single time. Sometimes it almost seemed like I was
fighting a human opponent in IL2, not any more.

Possibly wingman AI is better, probably is, they admittedly tend to obey instructions a bit better, but your wingman will still sit behind you as the enemy plane chews off your rudder, he'll still riddle you with bullets if you happen to be between him and his designated target,and now he has developed a curious habit of piling into the ground as you return to base!

I just can't see the improvement.

Gaaah its all a bit negative, no doubt many will shout and flame but its just the way I feel about the 'improved AI'

Still, I love flying that P-38 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.skiisworld.plus.com/pilot2%20copy.jpg
XP Pro / 2200XP / Fx5950 Ultra, 1Gb Pc2700 DDR / Abit KD7A Kt400 / Carppy old case

SeaFireLIV
04-05-2004, 08:47 AM
Sorry to hear that, Skii. When I first flew the original IL2 I was quite happy to follow 109s in a constant turn fight and shoot them down when they weakly attempted to avoid me. I never knew the difference nor cared as long as I shot them all down.

It`s only since I`ve grown more interested in LW versus Allied tactics (and hearing people`s knowledge on WWII flight combat), that I realised just how unrealistic AI combat was, especially LW. Also, my online experiences demonstrated the faults . So I became much more critical of what I saw and how I needed to fight in a furball.

Now I`d say AEP/FB is not perfect (I`ve said it many times), but it`s BY FAR better than anything previous. I certainly don`t understand `series of impossible barrel rolls` I haven`t seen this. I suppose you did a few quick flies on QMB and that was it. Oh well. Everyone`s different with their own idea of what they want. I DO agree a few bugs need fixing, especially the `over-the-top-` kill stealing, the anti-grav effect is much reduced, but, dammit, Oleg gets BETTER with the AI every time!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Well done, Old Chap, Mr. Maddox. Keep improving, m8!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Old1.jpg

It`s not about the Machine...
(aka: You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!)

SeaFireLIV
04-05-2004, 08:50 AM
oops. double post!

Skii_
04-05-2004, 09:01 AM
Was a little negative I admit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

I hate to make it sound like such a downer on what is essentially the best combat flight sim ever made, but it is a weak point.

You're probably right Seafire, the AI has probably improved, and is improving, I just hate that barrel-roll decelerating thing with a passion, I hope to god that Pacific Fighters doesn't use the same code in that respect

John

http://www.skiisworld.plus.com/pilot2%20copy.jpg
XP Pro / 2200XP / Fx5950 Ultra, 1Gb Pc2700 DDR / Abit KD7A Kt400 / Carppy old case

Bearcat99
04-05-2004, 09:54 AM
I think the enemy AI is OK... especially if they are all Aces... it is the closest to live pilots I have ever seen... like I said my gripe is with the friendly AI. Even your wingman will shoot you down. I have had missions where I tell the AI to attack a target 7 or 8 times and they STILL dont get rid of all thier ordinance and not only that they try to dogfight with bombs on thier racks..... I know the crew is working hard so I will wait for the improvements.. I just hope they are in the first patch. That is basically my only real gripe about FB 2.0. It runs like butter...and I have yet to convert someone to it and have them tell me it bites.... I do however get the thankyou thank you thank yous ALL THE TIME... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

Luftcaca
04-05-2004, 11:12 AM
"he'll still riddle you with bullets if you happen to be between him and his designated target,and now he has developed a curious habit of piling into the ground as you return to base!"

yeah well, not only when going back to base, actually at least two of my fellas Il2's die crashing on the ground while we are "en route" to our ground targets, every mission or almost. Stalingrad, end 42


oh yeah, another thing about ENNEMY AI that stuns me almost every time: after the leader of the ennemy flight has emptied all his magazines (unless its an ace they just CANT correct a deflection angle!), they pass to "ignoring mode"

which means you cant go at their 6, shoot em all down and if you're lucky, they will not even try any evasive maneuvers.

oh yeah....Seafire, now you think the AI is good cuz it E Fights?

well I was flying G2 and met some I-16's
they start to E fight with me.
I DONT call that good AI, sorry

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

SeaFireLIV
04-07-2004, 04:39 AM
Great work on the AI, Oleg! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

clint-ruin
04-07-2004, 05:50 AM
Differences in AI are always going to be a bit hard to see from outside of the code.

I would class AEP as 'different' without necessarily being 'better'.

A few things that have been mentioned [notably: ground area attacks] were always in the Il-2 codebase and that one in particular is even in the original mudmovers FMB guide.

I would not be surprised if a lot of the perceived difference comes down to very, very minor changes such as the distance between aircraft in formation, etc.

The one thing I've definitely noticed is that the typical 2 part formation [plane + wingman] seem a lot less likely to copy each others moves directly via delay. I've noticed it more than once that the first plane is likely to go high and the wingman low, and they seem more apt to split off and engage seperate targets. Not something I particularly noticed them doing pre 2.00.

I would hesitate to call anything 'new' behaviour, rather I think some minor tweaks may have just brought out behaviour that was always there.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

SeaFireLIV
04-07-2004, 06:36 AM
Well, as I was taught, "Perceptions are a very perceptual thing`.

I only say it like it appears to me, and I won`t be told I`m not seeing what I see. Anyway, the changes are there. Are these things definitely happening? Yes. Is it possible some may be a fluke? Anything`s possible- the AI aircraft running for the friendly airfield might have been, since I haven`t seen it happen again, but the situation hasn`t arrived for it to repeat yet.

But avoiding AAA at enemy airfields, yes and all the rest, yes. Without being able to delve into the game code how can I produce real evidence? Even a saved track could be called a `Fluke`.

But these things have happened and still do happen. I have flown AEP consistently since I received it and as it says on the box, there are definite Enhancements to the AI, which there are indeed. The whole offline Campaign experience has become more evolved and involved for me. Many people who have otherwise been quiet have piped up to agree. They just don`t like arguing (and I shouldn`t either, but Oleg needs credit where it`s due). It`s the old story of contented people say nothing while discontented whine, giving an unbalance view of things...

Perhaps one day Oleg will give us a run down on what he actually tried to make the AI do. Although at the moment he`s probably right not to intefere.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

clint-ruin
04-07-2004, 06:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
But these things have happened and still do happen. I have flown AEP consistently since I received it and as it says on the box, there are definite Enhancements to the AI. Perhaps one day Oleg will give us a run down on what he actually tried to make the AI do. Although at the moment he`s probably right not to intefere.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, what I was trying to say was .. if you make even a minor change such as formation distance, you are changing what each plane will see in front of it, and they're going to behave differently. Changing their priority order / state progression would also have a large effect without having to change what those states are. I have no problem believing that this has exposed some kinds of behaviour and made them happen differently than before, just that we are probably seeing emergent behaviour rather than a complete re-write.

I really haven't seen that much that I would call new, some things seem a little different [e retention, number of degrees they'll try to lead you through a turn, etc] but certainly not massively so. Enough to have to relearn some of their tricks at least :&gt;

All the same if you are finding things you didn't find before and enjoying it then that's great.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

LuftKuhMist
04-07-2004, 11:05 AM
Seafire, why do you defend so much the AI here I don't understand. It's good, surely better than most sim but there are pretty annoying things going on here that we don't see in other inferior sims.

Friendly AI is a pain in the arse as it is now and enemy AI is mostly innoffensive except in the collision expertise and when it has LOT of speed, which it bleeds like crazy when you're on its 6 anyway.

Now you're going to post "GREAT WORK ON AI OLEG"? Well he didn't code it. EVERYTHING in FB is pretty cool but AI makes me stop playing.

In that respect, thanks, I don't loose too much time playing.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
04-07-2004, 12:22 PM
yeah....I remember SEAFIRE told us WE were misleading peeps...

Keep repeating GREAT WORK ON THE AI OLEG is in my opinion the worst case of misleading Ive seen here.

Claiming that high and proud every day which leads us to believe that you think the AI is perfect the way it currently is and that it should be used as a model for other sims...despite the FACT that the flaws are so many...now THATS
what I call major league misleading

oh yeah, great work, even the IL4 are trying to E fight!!!

blblblbblblblblblblblbblblbl http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

overall, the AI is OK
but the flaws are....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Neo-X-
04-07-2004, 01:49 PM
At first: I don't mean to offend anyone here!
But I just have to agree to seafire again: "Great work an AI Oleg and team !!!"
I just don't understand how some of you get shot down by your wingman in nearly every mission. Since about one week or more I haven't been shot by them. And I fly evry day and I'm a offliner to 99,99%. For me AI doesn't feel so scripted or predictable any more. Btw I haven't seen an I16 B'n'Zing since I have AEP..
But what I wanted really to say is that this thread is for those people seeing good things in AI. For the bad things on AI there are more than enough threads running I guess. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I hope Oleg is also looking at threads like this so that he is seeing the results of his work and doesn't always have to look at the things Forgotten Battles is missing or doing wrong.. So once again:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif "Great work on AI Oleg !!!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Btw: I'm playing IL2 since the first demo came out so I guess I know what I'm talking about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
______________________________________________
Kampf, Sieg oder Tod.. ( :W: )

SeaFireLIV
04-07-2004, 01:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Neo-X-:

But what I wanted really to say is that this thread is for those people seeing good things in AI. For the bad things on AI there are more than enough threads running I guess. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I hope Oleg is also looking at threads like this so that he is seeing the results of his work and doesn't always have to look at the things Forgotten Battles is missing or doing wrong.. So once again:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif "Great work on AI Oleg !!!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
______________________________________________
Kampf, Sieg oder Tod.. ( :W: )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THANKYOU. That`s all this thread was supposed to be. But certain troublemakers (they know who they are) have decided to leave their own WHINE thread and come and hijack this one EVERY SINGLE TIME I say something positive to Oleg.

It`s very bad sport. Thankyou again, Neo-X. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

Neo-X-
04-07-2004, 02:08 PM
No problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif My pleasure !!!
Sometimes when I read through this forum I get the feeling that FB has to be a very bad game.. BUT IT ISNT !!! Its my all time favourite just followed by Operation Flashpoint!!!
But some guys give you a really hard time with this topic. Its such a shame..
So I thought I had to come by and help a little bit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Greetings and thanks

Luftcaca
04-07-2004, 02:30 PM
"But certain troublemakers"

yes, Im a troublemaker cuz my opinion is different than yours.

Ahhh...good old predictable Seafire... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Neo-X-
04-07-2004, 02:35 PM
Well others are predictable too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Guess there was no name mentioned but well if you think that you were meant.. Mhm..
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Luftcaca
04-07-2004, 02:44 PM
well duh Mr Smarty Pants
its obvious who Seafire was referring to and Im not going to hide for sure

Im not looking for trouble and Im certainly not a troll, and at least, when I have no argument, I dont post things like: "Ok Oleg your AI SUCKS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif"

I wish Seafire could argue, at least it would be fun :P

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
04-07-2004, 02:50 PM
Well there is a function private topic, this way it could not be "hijacked".

If you don't want comments on AI then don't post on AI, it's as simple as that.

Did I post ONE TIME a personnal attack on your person? I got some not too great insults already. I already apologized if I offended you, what do you want more?

Do you think I am inventing stuff on AI? No, it's legitimate stuff. I only have ONE complain it's AI. We post on AI, then we see 56 new subjects from you saying "wow AI is great".

We said AI is good but some things are very bad. We named them. I could post "AI is baaaad" each time "AI is good" is posted but it would be an insult to your intelligence, no?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Neo-X-
04-07-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
If you don't want comments on AI then don't post on AI, it's as simple as that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, but like I said before there are threads about improvements to AI out there and thats just the right place to post bad things about AI. That was what I was saying. And there was no personel offence in here. Just what I'm thinking about this thread and some replies.
And I also know there are bad things about AI and Seafire also posted about them, so I just don't see the problem..

_______________________________________________
Kampf, Sieg oder Tod..

LuftKuhMist
04-07-2004, 11:33 PM
Then there is no problem, lets all be friends!

http://www.stlport.org/irina/picts/2001/0511.champion_party/champion.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

mamal
04-09-2004, 06:34 AM
I canÔ┬┤t agree!
When in dogfight - enemys wingmans follows its leader trying to shootdown my leader even flying besides me (autopilot) as on the promenade. If my leader is shootdown they finnally notice me and attack! Sometimes it looks like a military parade and took one or more minutes.

Steph

SeaFireLIV
04-09-2004, 06:56 AM
HO!HO! You`ve just helped bump up my positive message to the top. I`ve never had such a long lived post! Ah, I love it when a plan works out.

Anyway, if you bothered to read my extensive writings I have said that the AI still has its negative points, but Oleg`s done a great job on IMPROVING AI (If you look, rather than just stick on your fave gripe) and simply should keep improving on all these things. Deja vu again...

But very few whiners actually seem to read. They just get the general idea through `plant-like` osmosis and just post blindly.

I really wouldn`t have some of you guys as scientists in any kind of important test, I can just imagine the outcome .... First it`s crap, then become fixated that it`s crap cos someone else says it isn`t and then it becomes a polarised issue of `We versus Them`.

You know what`s REALLY funny... ah, never mind...

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

Neo-X-
04-09-2004, 08:06 AM
Maybe that just happens 'cause some people don't read the whole thread and just post what comes to mind when reading the headlines..
But well so we are already on the third page and the thread is kept alive http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
_______________________________________________

Kampf, Sieg oder Tod.. ( :W: )

LuftKuhMist
04-09-2004, 11:39 AM
Seafire, I have tried a friendly approach I see the results.

You exceeded far what I have expected from you.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
04-09-2004, 11:51 AM
well Im not really surprised...since we are shadowing his mega-buttlicking area...

see? the guy cant make the diff between whats GOOD and what is IMPROVED. if it says on my dogs food can that the flavor was IMPROVED, it doesnt mean its GOOD...

yes the ennemy AI was improved a bit. thats what the topic's all about heh?

but is the overall AI GOOD now? No, especially not Friendly AI. thats what Oleg's ready room is all about heh?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

mortoma
04-09-2004, 01:01 PM
Nobody plays more offline campaigns than I do. I had over 30 campaigns going under different names when AEP came out. All of them transferred successfully to AEP. In my continued game play, I have noticed no AI improvement at all, not any period.
Not from 1.22 anyway. I still have 1.22 on another hard drive and even have played some more of my old campaigns in it right after having played AEP, again didn't notice any difference. I think the planes in formation fly farther apart but that is not an AI improvement. Just a change in the code that spaces them farther apart. I think wishful thinking and fantasizing have something to do with all of this, it's purely pshycological. I also contend that if any AI improvements were implemented, Oleg would have bragged about it in the Readme file, which is not the case. I know my comments will not be very popular but I always post what I truly feel, regardless of the whether it will be regarded warmly.

Jetbuff
04-09-2004, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
I think the planes in formation fly farther apart but that is not an AI improvement. Just a change in the code that spaces them farther apart. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that is actually a VERY good thing. It's a programmer's dream; a quick fix that gets the job done (fewer collisions) for minimum effort.

As far as not noticing improvements, try this:
190's with Mk108 wing cannons versus a flight of B17's. In 1.22 they dive in the same old pair formation attacking the bombers as they would fighters (from dead six) with disasterous results. In 2.0, the same scenario results in slashing attacks that make you feel almost sorry for the bombers.

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

SeaFireLIV
04-09-2004, 01:09 PM
Mortoma, you`ve not seen how Jerry fighters hover over bombers, then attack vertically down and up (B&Z)? You`ve not seen them extend away if they have faster aircraft? A couple of examples.

How do you know that nobody plays offline Campaigns more than you? Are you omnipresent? Now I`m not saying the writing on the box proves anything, but check the back anyway, it says `huge enhancements in FLIGHT DYNAMICS and AI` (like I said that statement doesn`t mean much, but it`s there as some form of confirmation that AI has been enhanced).


(oops, didn`t see Jetbuff`s response there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

LuftKuhMist
04-09-2004, 01:19 PM
Mortoma there are some improvement but overall not much has changed, but don't say it too loud here, it's pseudo-dangerous.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
04-09-2004, 01:33 PM
I have currently 4 offline campaigns

1. Lagg3 s66 year is 1943
2. Il2M first serie Stalingrad late 42
3. Finnish G2 Leningrad campaing in 43
4. Fw190A4 Stalingrad Fall of 42

in my IL2 campaign, almost EVERY single mission, I loose comrades who crash on the ground for no reason. Usually its 3 or/and 5...
Sometimes I order my wingmen to attack other targets than the ones designated as primary targets in the briefing. Instead of dropping their bombs on the newly designated targets, they "Jettison" their bombs as if I told em to engage ennemy fighters...thats yet another flaw in the friendly AI...

in my Finnish campaigns I saw some cool things about the ennemy AI. I have sometimes seen ennemies using an energy advantage effectively against me, but then again, when I was flying Brewster, I was usually comming back to base with 5 or more kills...

in my German campaing...LOL hahahahahah Ive seen some GREAT energy fighting...like I-16's trying to E fight with me when I was flying G2, or even more lately, Yak1 trying to E Fight with me even if Im flying Fw190A4...thats SOOOOOOO tha way to go agaisnt Wulfs isnt it :P



oh...and yes...
if an ennemy fighter is behind you and shooting at you, dont be afraid...just perform a slight an regular turn, and look at em wasting all their ammo...to the last bullet. then, when is all empty, you just kill him, since he has no more ammo, he'll just ignore you til he is dead...
and that btw works since FB 1.0

lets see....1...2...3...4 patches and an expansion and it still works like a charm??? hmmmmm...

conclusion: the AI was slightly increased...which makes it IMPROVED, but NOT GOOD

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
04-12-2004, 12:22 PM
Is that thread dead?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
04-13-2004, 02:10 PM
no its not
Bump

heh I got shot down a few times lately by the ennemy AI
I agree progresses were made with AEP regarding the ennemy AI on some points. If they are aces, you CANNOT ignore em, nor can you make em empty their magazines without being hit

Ennemy aces are now a challenge well done Oleg its a nice start http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ps: no sarcasm here btw

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
04-13-2004, 09:58 PM
I got shot pretty badly by a tenacious Mig while flying BF109F2, the sucker couldn't deflection shot but he shot me alright when I was pourring my stuff on his buddy.

Ennemy AI can be a challenge. Friendly AI can also be, though.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-13-2004, 10:28 PM
Overall some *nice* improvement, butt....

Yep, the enemy AI spraying your tail when you are in gentle turn still has never been fixed for higher skill levels at leaszt. Exploiting that deflection turn is almost Cheating in offwhine play. This is often made up for when in a big dogfight I suddenly blow up, and from external view I see an enemy plane fly through my debris cloud. That impresses me when they catch you by surprise, and very realistic too.



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Itto_Okami
04-14-2004, 01:39 AM
AI sucks... they can't avoid me when I'm in a collision route... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

talking seriusly, I was a bit surprised yesterday, I was away from the game for a while and tried two QM to see if my aiming was still good. first mission was me on a Ki.84 vs two P-51D aces. after first clash with some bullets from me on the #2 they simply escaped straight away and I get both with a quick burst from dead 6. #1 did nothing to avoid me even if I had just killed his #2 who was flying on his wing. He just kept his route.
The second QM was me on a Spit V vs 2 109G-6, ace level and after few .303 #2 escaped leaving his #1 to figh with me. This time was a nice combat with the #1 taht lasted for some minute, even if some times #1 had some... suicidal tendence closing scissors very very close to my canopy. Both QM started with no advantage. After this I have some mixed feeling about AI. Just one thing... when... I ask... when the gunner's aim will be toned to reality? during 6 runs I get 3 PK and a dead engine for a single bullet straight in the center of the spinner... with this type of gunners surely escort fighters were not needed at all! BTW... the only two times I was not killed I was on a Ki-84 and had a kill at passage against B-17 while no chances vs the Pe-8.

S!

Itto

Luftcaca
04-14-2004, 12:33 PM
I dont think the AI gunners are too accurate with AEP
of course you can be badlucked and receive a bullet right in the head, but yanno, were would be the thrill without that??

as for the dead engine, keep in mind that you have to be extra careful especially with a liquid cooled engine. In other word, if you attack B-17's with a 109, just DONT get in bad position or bye bye.

Another example, P-40M vs Heikel 111's
just DONT attack em from behind, face to face is recommended, since the pilot is so easy to kill this way.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

HEXxANGEL
04-14-2004, 03:35 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Great work on AI in AEP,Oleg! It has been improved much! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BTW I don't think that gunners AI is too good..
I think gunners AI in 1.22 was a bit more realistic. Something between 1.22 and the current gunners AI would be great in my opinion http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
_______________________________________________
Kampf, Sieg oder Tod..

Beery
05-01-2004, 10:39 AM
I would think it would be fairly simple to make the AI disengage when damaged. Has such a change been implemented yet? I haven't played in a while and I recall this was the reason I stopped playing - AI pilots would continue to fight even after they were badly damaged. No real pilot would continue to fight after even moderate damage. What's the deal?

VMF223_Anderson
05-01-2004, 02:03 PM
&lt;S!&gt;

I tend to agree the enemy AI is more intelligent in AEP, and alot more challanging to fight. But only gripe is the wingman AI, while spacing is better, and collision avoidance is better, they lack priorities, dead plane versus undamaged plane, and ground avoidance. While I agree I have spun into the mud being dumb, a flight of 3 running into a hillside is a bit hard to believe in clear weather. If they can shoot through the clouds like its not there, it should be able to see a mountain. Kill stealing doesn't bother me either if the mission is a success, but shooting me down to get to the enemy is a issue, and it happens way to often. Just my opinion.

G.Anderson
Hilo, Hawaii

plumps_
05-01-2004, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beery:
I would think it would be fairly simple to make the AI disengage when damaged. Has such a change been implemented yet? I haven't played in a while and I recall this was the reason I stopped playing - AI pilots would continue to fight even after they were badly damaged. No real pilot would continue to fight after even moderate damage. What's the deal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In fact they do disengage (they always have), but only when they have taken some kind of critical damage. This means that in most cases they won't make it back to their base.
If you play missions or watch tracks in Arcade mode (Arcade=1 in conf.ini) you will notice the bubble saying "I'm RTBing" appearing now and then. That's the moment when the AI pilot decides to disengage.

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Beery
05-02-2004, 12:38 PM
I realise they have always disengaged. The problem is, they wait until disengaging can never keep them alive - they disengage only when their aircraft is so damaged that it can no longer manoeuvre or outrun its opponents at all. It becomes a sitting duck. Why have the feature if it never actually works to the AI's advantage???

The disengagement feature needs to be tweaked so that it kicks in at lower damage levels, so that the AI still has a chance to outrun a pursuer, otherwise it is worse than useless and not very realistic. After all, what reasonable pilot keeps fighting when he notices even a small drop in performance. At that point, you look for a way to disengage - live to fight another day. I'm not expecting that level of realism from the sim, but I think AI pilots should disengage when there's a noticeable difference in plane performance, instead of keeping fighting until the point at which they can barely stay airborne.

VMF223_Anderson
05-06-2004, 11:51 AM
&lt;S!&gt;Bump,

Hoping BOB developers read this stuffhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

G.Anderson
Hilo, Hawaii

FLAGRUM_3
05-08-2004, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Beery:
I realise they have always disengaged. The problem is, they wait until disengaging can never keep them alive - they disengage only when their aircraft is so damaged that it can no longer manoeuvre or outrun its opponents at all. It becomes a sitting duck. Why have the feature if it never actually works to the AI's advantage???[unqoute]

Beery I find in AEP that the AI will disengage much sooner now than in FB when damaged and also as stated before by others, enemy AI are more challenging. I would agree with alot of others here also that the friendly AI is the big problem now i.e whole squad members crashing into hills, whole squad chasing down one plane while your left alone to fight 2or3 enemy..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.giffortunatly I haven't experienced being shot down by my wingman yet.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV
05-08-2004, 11:23 AM
Hmmm... This thread still going, eh? Has a life of it`s own.

The friendly AI is really the only problem (stealing kills/ sometimes hitting your plane).

Enemy AI are absolutely marvellous. They B&Z, use extending tactics and will run if overwhelmed. Attack bombers realistically (from high). They will stay and fight if they think they still have a chance against you (more of them than you), even if planes knackered somewhat. Those 109s now make my I16 feel really crappy....

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Impatient3.jpg

We`re coming for that Patch ready or not!