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View Full Version : Fw 190 Boost systems: explainations and sources needed



faustnik
07-09-2004, 10:05 AM
I've been looking into the "boost" systems in the 190 and I'm having a very tough time finding technical sources. I'm having even more trouble matching up what I find in written material to what we have in FB. Here are a few questions:

Was the provision for GM-1 boost ever used in the A4?

What is the boost system modeled in the A5/A6, I have found no mention of it anywhere in any reference?

What was the top rated HP for the MW50 boost on the BMW801D-2?

What where the rated ATA boost levels for all the versions?

Sorry for all the questions, this stuff is just hard to find.

Thanks,

faust

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faustnik
07-09-2004, 10:05 AM
I've been looking into the "boost" systems in the 190 and I'm having a very tough time finding technical sources. I'm having even more trouble matching up what I find in written material to what we have in FB. Here are a few questions:

Was the provision for GM-1 boost ever used in the A4?

What is the boost system modeled in the A5/A6, I have found no mention of it anywhere in any reference?

What was the top rated HP for the MW50 boost on the BMW801D-2?

What where the rated ATA boost levels for all the versions?

Sorry for all the questions, this stuff is just hard to find.

Thanks,

faust

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S 8
07-09-2004, 10:22 AM
Maybe you´ve seen this but I think is has a lot of info.
http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/fw190.htm

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/113_1089291819_super3.jpg

faustnik
07-09-2004, 10:28 AM
Thanks for the reply Superluminal. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Yes, I have seen that page and it contains the matierial found in most reference books. What I'm looking for is a little more specific. What is very important is the ATA boost allowed in different versions and the time a change was allowed.

I can find no reference to the "WEP" available in the A5 and A6 like the FB model. I wonder if this is pure fiction.

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DaBallz
07-09-2004, 10:58 AM
WEP is an American term for "War Emergency Power".
It's being used here for anything over rated
power
and boost. ALL Combat engines of WWII ran under boost
at most times.
Rated power, is basicly what the manufacturer
claimed the engine could run at sustained.
Generaly rated power was also max cruise speed as well.
Millitary power was max RPM at max boost.
Usualy there was a time limit on military power.
WEP was max RPM with an over boost. Engine
life was severly shortend and there was a
short time limit.

In the IL2 game Oleg has chosen a generic
110% as the WEP overboost. In truth it varied.

Germany also used chemical boosting. NiOx and
methanol were used. the US used water
mixed
with methanol as a detonation control for
more boost. In the US setup the methanol
was primarily to prevent the freezing of
the mixture.

Da...

DangerForward
07-09-2004, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Thanks for the reply Superluminal. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Yes, I have seen that page and it contains the matierial found in most reference books. What I'm looking for is a little more specific. What is very important is the ATA boost allowed in different versions and the time a change was allowed.

I can find no reference to the "WEP" available in the A5 and A6 like the FB model. I wonder if this is pure fiction.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
_http://www.7jg77.com is recruiting_
_http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The closest thing I can find to it is explained in Hermann's book on the D9. Here's the quote:

"As the MW50 system will not be introduced until December, it was determined in consultation with Dr. Lichte that an immediate increase in output to 1900h.p. could be achieved by increasing boost pressure."

Dr. Lichte is from the Jumo factory. So basically he hot-rodded up the engine for the line pilots. The did it through some sort of kit which was installed when the planes were delivered.

I think a similar thing probably happened with the other planes with WEP. I also read that the 190A8 was the first model to have MW-50 or GM-1 installed. I think depending on where the plane was fighting(i.e western front).

Knowing this what I don't understand is why couldn't the planes have both the "boost kit" and MW-50 installed.(D9 in particular)

DangerForward

JtD
07-09-2004, 11:34 AM
Ask again in the German forum, many experts there. Most of which speak english.

FW 190 (801D) had extra fuel injection as emergency system. Increased rpm and manifold pressure, I think.

No MW or GM boost used with 801, afaik.

rjholloway
07-09-2004, 03:59 PM
My question on boost. It seems when I apply boost in the 109 I screw up the engine. Is there a specific height and speed when I can apply boost?

faustnik
07-09-2004, 04:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HardCorps88:
My question on boost. It seems when I apply boost in the 109 I screw up the engine. Is there a specific height and speed when I can apply boost?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HardCorps,

With the Fw190A8/A9 enable WEP at low RPM and leave it on. Don't enable it over 40% throttle or you will fry the engine. The boost will kick in automatically when you apply above 100% throttle if it is previously enabled. Set it and forget it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Helvik
07-09-2004, 05:00 PM
mw50 was never serialized on the 190A / F series. The 190A-4 came off the production line with the "plumbing" for an mw50 system but outside a few "mysterious" jabo A4s used against England the mw50 installation of the BMW proved problematic.

In 1943 C3 injection / "erh¶hte Notleistung" was tested on the 190A-5 but wasn't serialized until the summer of '44 on the A-8.

The A-5 and A-6 in FB/AEP both have C3 injection, as well as the A-9 and early D-9.

C3 worked similiar to mw50 in that C3 (instead of mw50) was injected into the eye of the blower. It had the effect of allowing increased boost by its charge-cooling effect.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>From Janes:

"The pilot had a small push-pull control which operated two *****. The first **** opened an air bleed in the boost pressure regulator chamber, causing the regulator to open the butterfly throttle to provide +8.8 lb. boost instead of +5.5 lb. boost at sea level. The second **** opened a pipe line from the fuel pump to a spray nozzle fitted in the port air intake.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GM1 on the A8 was never standardized.

http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s/190-2-1024.jpg

ZG77_Lignite
07-09-2004, 05:06 PM
Faustnik, I believe you are incorrect about the A8 and A9, as I understand it they both use the same fuel injection system (see below) as the A5 and A6.

This system (which I don't know the name for either, Butch2k does I bet) injects fuel (normally C3) directly into the supercharger (I believe), in an effort increase air charge temperature and decrease detonation, thus allowing for higher manifold pressures (and possibly RPM, of which I am less clear about), which leads to horsepower increase. This is essentially the same as the MW-50 system (which is essentially the same as the P47 or HellCat systems), except that instead of using MW-50 (methanol/water mixture) it uses a high grade gasoline. I believe German tests found that this fuel system was competitive (though still the loser for raw horsepower) in power increases when compared to MW-50 system, while being easier to maintain (and supply). Thus its use through to the end of the war, even though the MW-50 system finally did come into play (mid/late '44).

MW-50 was planned and the engine was capable of recieving it from the A4 onwards, however, as I understand it, it was never installed in a serial production A series (not even the A8, which is often listed as using it, as is the A4). GM-1 (nitrous oxide) is a whole different bear, and to my knowledge was not installed on any serial production FW190's (or even prototypes that I know of).

faustnik
07-09-2004, 05:29 PM
Thanks guys. That A8 chart is very helpful Helvik. Do you have any others?

Lignite,

When I mentioned A8/A9 boost that was in FB terms not real life. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Still trying to figure out the real life systems.

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Helvik
07-09-2004, 05:31 PM
190A-5

http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s/fw190_A5_speed.gif

3.JG51_Stecher
07-09-2004, 05:52 PM
In FB, the boosting system is the same for A-5,6,8,9,D-9 '44. There is no danger when engaging at any setting.

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