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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed Syndicate - Women Enemies



bill1222012
10-07-2016, 09:52 AM
Why was this even added?

Is there a way to disable the very accurate croſs-dreſsing women enemies,gang members and fighters in Victorian England?

TheHumanTowel
10-07-2016, 12:56 PM
Why was this even added?

Why not? You play as a woman as well in case you didn't notice.

cawatrooper9
10-07-2016, 04:56 PM
https://youtu.be/qmLvWL3_mOA


It actually is accurate, buddy.

LoyalACFan
10-07-2016, 05:32 PM
Trust me, you don't want to go down this rabbit hole. I made a thread like this about a year ago, and apparently I'm a chauvinist pig for wondering why 50+% of the gang leaders in Syndicate's 19th-century London were women. I'm all for equal representation in gaming, but I'd prefer it if it made some logical sense, instead of flimsy tokenism to make up for the "women are harder to animate" snafu. Mostly though, I was just bothered by the fact that there were only like five enemy character models in the game. That thin dark-haired cockney woman and the big bald brute dude... I'm pretty sure I've killed each of them at least 8204739 times by now.

cawatrooper9
10-07-2016, 06:54 PM
Trust me, you don't want to go down this rabbit hole. I made a thread like this about a year ago, and apparently I'm a chauvinist pig for wondering why 50+% of the gang leaders in Syndicate's 19th-century London were women. I'm all for equal representation in gaming, but I'd prefer it if it made some logical sense, instead of flimsy tokenism to make up for the "women are harder to animate" snafu.
It may well be tokenism is it was done in direct response to Unity's poorly calculated PR, but it's completely devoid of logical sense. The Rock Push, the Mandelbum Gang, and the all female Forty Elephants would heartily disagree with you about women not having prominent roles in gangs of Victorian London.

I'm not calling you sexist or chauvinist or whatever it is that you seem to be all bent out of shape about- I'm simply stating that when considering the past, it's often best to do more than just think of what your particular interpretation of it might have been based solely off of aesthetics. It's easy to look at today's Athens and think that even during the ancient days it was a city of unpainted ruins, but that would obviously be false.

Were they overrepresented? Sure. Perhaps, after game after game of complete 100% historical accuracy in this series of superhuman Forsest Gumps, Ubisoft finally slipped up. Good job, you caught them, I guess. :p


Mostly though, I was just bothered by the fact that there were only like five enemy character models in the game. That thin dark-haired cockney woman and the big bald brute dude... I'm pretty sure I've killed each of them at least 8204739 times by now.

On that, friend, we can agree.

SixKeys
10-07-2016, 10:37 PM
OP brings up a valid point. I want a way to disable the very accurate haybale-jumping, parachuting, alien technology-wielding assassins. What's the keyboard command for that?

Farlander1991
10-07-2016, 10:51 PM
Even if we presume that historically there were no female gangs, logically why would a man who's motto is 'Why not?' and who thinks that everybody should literally do as they please wouldn't take female members into his gang?

You can notice that there's no female police or female royal guards, so it's not like female archetypes were just being added for the sake of being added regardless of historical accuracy.

LoyalACFan
10-08-2016, 08:05 PM
It may well be tokenism is it was done in direct response to Unity's poorly calculated PR, but it's completely devoid of logical sense. The Rock Push, the Mandelbum Gang, and the all female Forty Elephants would heartily disagree with you about women not having prominent roles in gangs of Victorian London.

I'm not calling you sexist or chauvinist or whatever it is that you seem to be all bent out of shape about- I'm simply stating that when considering the past, it's often best to do more than just think of what your particular interpretation of it might have been based solely off of aesthetics. It's easy to look at today's Athens and think that even during the ancient days it was a city of unpainted ruins, but that would obviously be false.

Were they overrepresented? Sure. Perhaps, after game after game of complete 100% historical accuracy in this series of superhuman Forsest Gumps, Ubisoft finally slipped up. Good job, you caught them, I guess. :p

But that's the thing, I'm not bent out of shape about the inclusion of female enemies, but rather the backlash I got for saying it didn't really make that much sense. I mean, here's the original post I made, which (I thought) was very pro-egalitarian but anti-token.


Alright, so, I think I'm generally a nice person and I'm loathe to open a can of worms like this online, but after Unity's fiasco with the whole "animating women" controversy, it seems like Ubisoft took kind of a strange approach with their depiction of female characters in Syndicate. I mean, yes, we have Evie, and she's great (IMO she should have been the sole protagonist, Jacob is a friggin dolt) but it strikes me as odd that they still only gave her about half as many story missions as Jacob (and even said as much before release).

On the flip side, they added a ton of female enemies, which is... another strange one, honestly. It feels like they, in an attempt to show how equal they believe women should be, just stuck a bunch of female NPC's (correction- two female NPCs cloned over and over, since there are only like five enemy character models) in Blighter uniforms as if to say "hey look, equality!" So rather than using Evie as their beacon, they've got her still playing second fiddle to Brash Assassin Hero Man while female enemies are abundant all over London and two thirds of the city's generic gang leaders are women (which is pushing the boundaries of realism to the breaking point honestly, this is supposed to be 1860s London and you've got women leading over half of the city's organized crime. Come on now).

I mean personally, I didn't think the controversy over Unity's lack of female co-op characters was justified (everyone plays as Arno on their screen, so rigging a female avatar just to show up on your partner's screen is a lot of work for very little tangible gain) but it's to see Ubisoft keep stumbling all over themselves when it comes to gender. It just comes across as lip service to buy themselves a ticket on the PC train, rather than a genuine attempt to promote female characters in gaming. And is it stupid that there are so many women in leadership positions in 19th-century street gangs, or am I just a horrible sexist bastard?

And people were all up in my arse about it. My issue wasn't even the female enemies per se, it was the fact that they were a hamhanded way to brush aside the stain of "HarderToAnimateGate" without really making as much of a positive change as they could have.

But you're right, I should have probably moved on by now :p

Farlander1991
10-08-2016, 08:19 PM
I mean, here's the original post I made, which (I thought) was very pro-egalitarian but anti-token.

I wasn't participating in the backlash (as I haven't seen anything outrageous in your post), but to be fair, you did provide an option to call yourself a horrible sexist bastard :p

LoyalACFan
10-08-2016, 09:03 PM
I wasn't participating in the backlash (as I haven't seen anything outrageous in your post), but to be fair, you did provide an option to call yourself a horrible sexist bastard :p

Ach, the fine print always bites me in the bum ;)

SixKeys
10-08-2016, 09:22 PM
Frankly it's a little hard to judge whether people really did overreact to your post or if you felt more attacked than you actually were without seeing the actual replies to your post. Not saying it's necessarily the case, but I've noticed people on the internet tend to think any kind of disagreement on issues of social justice equals to "they called me a chauvinist pig!", even if the actual reply was more along the lines of "are you sure you aren't mistaking popular entertainment's poor gender representation for historical accuracy?" (as has been pointed out in this thread).

LoyalACFan
10-08-2016, 09:38 PM
Frankly it's a little hard to judge whether people really did overreact to your post or if you felt more attacked than you actually were without seeing the actual replies to your post. Not saying it's necessarily the case, but I've noticed people on the internet tend to think any kind of disagreement on issues of social justice equals to "they called me a chauvinist pig!", even if the actual reply was more along the lines of "are you sure you aren't mistaking popular entertainment's poor gender representation for historical accuracy?" (as has been pointed out in this thread).

You're kind of right. Reading through it again now, it was just one poster who went fully ad hominem on me (although I noticed some of the thread's original messages have been deleted by mods, so there could have been more). It derailed shortly thereafter, but I think I bowed out before that. IDK my memory is not entirely reliable, as this conversation has shown.

Edit- actually, screw it, here's the link. Revel in my shame ;)
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1305432-*No-Spoilers*-Ubi-s-new-approach-to-female-characters