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View Full Version : Gun Power - relative strengths of armaments



mynameisroland
09-02-2004, 10:18 AM
I read an intereseting article in a flight magazine (cant rem which one , its out this month in UK with spit in desert cammo on front cover) all about fighter armament in WW2.
It surmised each of the major airforces weapons and their developments. What was interesting was it showed that the Mg151/20 was one of the best all round cannons. Faster firing than the Hispano, good trajectory , good destructive power ect. It seems that its rate of fire was not that much lower than the russian ShVak and that the Americans were much impressed by it and the Mg151/15 and tried to re produce it.

The comparison included heavy MGs like the .50 cal and the MG131 and concluded that over all the cannon was superior to the heavy Mg for aerial fighting.

After plying FB for a year and a half now the one thing that is really galling ( Yes I know its well documented ) is the lack of destructive power for all of the LW weapons except; in my opinion , the MK108/103.

It takes normally around 10 hits from the 151/20 to bring down a Yak or a Lagg not just from dead six but even when firing with good angles of deflection. Normally online most people shun the 151/20 for the 108 whenever possible to get the quickest kills. What i find unacceptable in comparision with weapons of a lesser caliber is how uncommon pilot kills are with this gun. The .50 cal seems to be the best gun of all for this along with engine kills. I know its unlikely to see a plane explode when firing at it with .50's for more non spectacular kills it is very effective. Why has the sim allowed this to be the case? Surely a 20mm shell hitting pilot armour or engine block would have the same if not greater effect?

The ShVaks and Hispanos are very powerfull in the game, in reality they were too. The statistics printed in the magazine suggested that the 151/20 was not disimilar in perfornmance to either of these guns yet in the game the muzzle velocity and ROF of the ShVak is incredible. Consider a hub mounted 151/20 fires about 10/11 rounds per sec and a ShVak fires 11/12 rounds per sec how come a Lagg7 seems to have one and a half (im being generous here its more like 2) the rate of fire? Bearing in mind the former is unsynchronised unlike the Laggs ShVaks.

Anyway I made a track flying against Spits to experiment with different power of weapons. When firing soley with the 151/20 i hit one spit a dozen or so times with little damage except for a fuel trail. After running out of ammo at the end of the track I fired using the MG131s and the Spits wing snapped off!

This gun is a pea shooter in comparison, maybe the Spit was pulling high G and the shots helped shear the wing off but it didnt look like that to me - is that even modelled in the game?

Sorry about the beef just wanted to moan about an otherwise truely brilliant sim series, I grew up wanting to play games like this - Thanks Maddox ; )

By the way has anynone else had any strange MG131 occurences? Also will LW fighters be included in Pacific Fighters?

Also how do you post tracks?

[This message was edited by mynameisroland on Thu September 02 2004 at 09:28 AM.]

mynameisroland
09-02-2004, 10:18 AM
I read an intereseting article in a flight magazine (cant rem which one , its out this month in UK with spit in desert cammo on front cover) all about fighter armament in WW2.
It surmised each of the major airforces weapons and their developments. What was interesting was it showed that the Mg151/20 was one of the best all round cannons. Faster firing than the Hispano, good trajectory , good destructive power ect. It seems that its rate of fire was not that much lower than the russian ShVak and that the Americans were much impressed by it and the Mg151/15 and tried to re produce it.

The comparison included heavy MGs like the .50 cal and the MG131 and concluded that over all the cannon was superior to the heavy Mg for aerial fighting.

After plying FB for a year and a half now the one thing that is really galling ( Yes I know its well documented ) is the lack of destructive power for all of the LW weapons except; in my opinion , the MK108/103.

It takes normally around 10 hits from the 151/20 to bring down a Yak or a Lagg not just from dead six but even when firing with good angles of deflection. Normally online most people shun the 151/20 for the 108 whenever possible to get the quickest kills. What i find unacceptable in comparision with weapons of a lesser caliber is how uncommon pilot kills are with this gun. The .50 cal seems to be the best gun of all for this along with engine kills. I know its unlikely to see a plane explode when firing at it with .50's for more non spectacular kills it is very effective. Why has the sim allowed this to be the case? Surely a 20mm shell hitting pilot armour or engine block would have the same if not greater effect?

The ShVaks and Hispanos are very powerfull in the game, in reality they were too. The statistics printed in the magazine suggested that the 151/20 was not disimilar in perfornmance to either of these guns yet in the game the muzzle velocity and ROF of the ShVak is incredible. Consider a hub mounted 151/20 fires about 10/11 rounds per sec and a ShVak fires 11/12 rounds per sec how come a Lagg7 seems to have one and a half (im being generous here its more like 2) the rate of fire? Bearing in mind the former is unsynchronised unlike the Laggs ShVaks.

Anyway I made a track flying against Spits to experiment with different power of weapons. When firing soley with the 151/20 i hit one spit a dozen or so times with little damage except for a fuel trail. After running out of ammo at the end of the track I fired using the MG131s and the Spits wing snapped off!

This gun is a pea shooter in comparison, maybe the Spit was pulling high G and the shots helped shear the wing off but it didnt look like that to me - is that even modelled in the game?

Sorry about the beef just wanted to moan about an otherwise truely brilliant sim series, I grew up wanting to play games like this - Thanks Maddox ; )

By the way has anynone else had any strange MG131 occurences? Also will LW fighters be included in Pacific Fighters?

Also how do you post tracks?

[This message was edited by mynameisroland on Thu September 02 2004 at 09:28 AM.]

NorrisMcWhirter
09-02-2004, 10:26 AM
Hi,

Lordy..here we go. Expect 5x10^43 pages of waffle on this one.

I have this mag (Aeroplane Monthly, I think) and some of it was interesting reading, particularly in Russian guns being favoured. I wonder if they did their testing in FB? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In the game, the LW guns are inconsistent at best but don't expect them to be fixed cos there ain't no wonga in it.

Cheers,
Norris

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jugent
09-03-2004, 01:59 AM
Dont make the mistake to think that Forgotten battles shall reflect the truth about how it was in real life during the world war II.
If the maddox team came from Italy and the germas where the major customers, guess what planes would be the best?

If maddox-team want to they could make a blimp outmanouvre anything or make the hitarea bigger for a certain gun.
The biggest cheaters are the programming team.

F19_Ob
09-03-2004, 03:09 AM
Hi there mynameiroland .
If u are interested in comparisons u might want to try the arcademode.
In arcademode U can get an idea how much damage
each weapon does by watching the impact and shrapnel arrows.

All cannons are powerful but non of them are immune to the "edgehits", hits on the edges of wing and tailsurfaces, wich can make the explosion go off outside the plane without the shrapnel hitting any vital parts, or any parts at all.


If u have limited time u might want to peek at my test and my thoughts about actual and visual damage.

ACTUAL and VISUAL damage (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=949108326)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
09-03-2004, 06:07 AM
Read this link: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-in.html

Get a feel for how all the various cannons stacked up against each other. See why the Hispano hits so hard, or the ShVAK is so effective, or why the MG151/20 was favored over the MG-FF.

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RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"