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View Full Version : Stall/Spin recovery in the P39



HangerQueen
04-21-2004, 02:49 AM
I know there was a thread on this a long time ago, but I can't find it. Anyone got any tips for stall/spin recovery in the P39 (in Il2 Original)? Cheers.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/HangerQueen-Within_the_Realm_Dying_Sun2copy.jpg

Despite repeated warnings, Jason continued to loiter outside the public lavatories dressed as Pestilence.

HangerQueen
04-21-2004, 02:49 AM
I know there was a thread on this a long time ago, but I can't find it. Anyone got any tips for stall/spin recovery in the P39 (in Il2 Original)? Cheers.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/HangerQueen-Within_the_Realm_Dying_Sun2copy.jpg

Despite repeated warnings, Jason continued to loiter outside the public lavatories dressed as Pestilence.

Koan___
04-21-2004, 03:50 AM
Flat spin.
Throttle - 0
Rudder - opposite spin direction
Stick - push (not pull) to extreme position
Pause (2 sec. maybe)
Throttle slowly up to max.
Pray.

MatuDa
04-21-2004, 04:30 AM
I read somewhere that the p39 flatspin has only been broken 3 times according to written documents and that the plane used to snap into it with very little or no warning.. Sounds like a plane you wouldn't push to the edge IRL if you had to fly it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I guess the "pray"-part is authentic simulation of what really happened http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-21-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koan___:
Flat spin.
Throttle - 0
Rudder - opposite spin direction
Stick - push (not pull) to extreme position
Pause (2 sec. maybe)
Throttle slowly up to max.
Pray.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sounds about right to me, with one exception...altitude. If you're under 2k... fuggedaboudit.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Locust_
04-21-2004, 09:15 AM
many times if you catch it fast enough u can go full left stick & full right rudder, that will bring u right out of it unless your real slow

you have to catch it FAST tho

Once it develops by by

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

04-21-2004, 11:55 AM
Rudder pro-spin for 2-3 revs to get the nose down, and THEN begin standard recovery.

KrasniyYastreb
04-21-2004, 12:03 PM
I used to fly P-39N1 the worst spinner of them all. Full rudder against spin, full aileron in spin direction. You will need to sense when you regain control. Usually this happens pretty quickly for normal spins. Chopping throttle also helps. Pull out *gently*. Use flaps if necessary.

I think this also works for flat spins. If its really bad you might need to be creative. Inverted flat spins - bail.

El Turo
04-21-2004, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MatuDa:
I read somewhere that the p39 flatspin has only been broken 3 times according to written documents and that the plane used to snap into it with very little or no warning.. Sounds like a plane you wouldn't push to the edge IRL if you had to fly it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I guess the "pray"-part is authentic simulation of what really happened http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post is slightly off topic for this thread (as it does not give advice on how to recover from a spin in IL2) but it applies to the real-world situation/discussion, and I thought it appropriate enough to warrant a reply.

The reportedly excessive spin tendencies of the P39 is one of the biggest perpetually repeated myths of all time.

It was said to "tumble" end over end in certain circumstances by some pilots (reportedly due to the location of the engine to the rear of the cockpit in the airframe) but it was not reproducable by Army Air Corps engineers and/or their film crews.

The fact is that the machine was an ergonomic nightmare and had extremely poor high altitude performance in both climb and top speed for which it was disliked by most pilots that flew them. The 37mm cannon was described to me by a WWII Ace as a softball-pitch machine with a trajectory so high and a rate of fire so low that it was nearly useless against anything but huge bombers unless you were at point-blank range.

I have had the honor and priveldge to speak with three or four dozen WWII veterans that flew the machine and to a man, they all vehemently deny that it was unstable or spin prone.

They hated the thing for a number of other reasons and desperately wanted to get into a better aircraft... and perhaps this is where some of the mythological spin-demon tales came from. However, the fact is that these reputed spin tendencies are greatly exaggerated to the point of being not much more than fairy tales.

The truth is that nearly ANY aircraft, once flown beyond the edge of its envelope, will stall and if left uncorrected will develop into a spin. That's the same for the P51 (try performing combat manuevers with a full or partially drained fuselage tank) OR the P39.

Best,

~T.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

HangerQueen
04-21-2004, 07:54 PM
Cheers guys, I'll try these out. I actualy managed to recover from a spin last night using the standard recovery technique - I was most surprised. Unfortunately I was too close to the ground to pull up in time.

I also tried rudder in the direction of the spin and it did stop the stalling noise. I thought, "Great! What next? Oh no!". Crunch. Now I know what to do next, I should be able to reduce the frequency at which I lawndart.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/HangerQueen-Within_the_Realm_Dying_Sun2copy.jpg

Despite repeated warnings, Jason continued to loiter outside the public lavatories dressed as Pestilence.

TX-EcoDragon
04-22-2004, 02:02 AM
The real world P-39 spin was recoverable, but did have a somewhat counter intuitive recovery. The so called "Nasa Standard Method" or "PARE" method work if the spin hasn't yet become developed, otherwise pilots were trained to give pro-spin inputs for a turn (rudder with the direction of rotation, elevator back (in upright spins)), and then proceed with the conventional recovery. The basic idea was to get the control surfaces "flying" with stabilized airflow over them before making the recovery attempt.

Oh, and the method is

P-ower off
A-ilerons neutral
R-udder, opposite the direction of rotation
E-levator, through neutral

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
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04-22-2004, 03:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
The real world P-39 spin was recoverable, but did have a somewhat counter intuitive recovery. The so called "Nasa Standard Method" or "PARE" method work if the spin hasn't yet become developed, otherwise pilots were trained to give pro-spin inputs for a turn (rudder with the direction of rotation, elevator back (in upright spins)), and then proceed with the conventional recovery. The basic idea was to get the control surfaces "flying" with stabilized airflow over them before making the recovery attempt.

Oh, and the method is

P-ower off
A-ilerons neutral
R-udder, opposite the direction of rotation
E-levator, through neutral<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there an echo in here or what? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks for spelling it out in more detail.

VFA-195 Snacky
04-22-2004, 03:26 AM
while you guys are talking about worst spinners the P39 is rock steady compared to a FW190. I really dont see how these 190 guys do it. I can barely take off in the thing.lol

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/Corsairs.jpg

TX-EcoDragon
04-22-2004, 03:50 AM
The recovery of the 190 is superb however ;-)

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

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04-22-2004, 04:23 AM
I've accidentally snapped the 190 so many times, only to be amazed at how quickly it straightens out. I don't know if this is a feature/bug of the sim flight model or if it's actual realistic behavior.

To recover Fw 190 all you have to do is center the stick and rudder and it straightens out on its own.