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View Full Version : Asteroid, Meteorite or Volcano crater in Smolensk



E_Temperament
03-31-2004, 08:15 PM
Curious to know if any of you forum readers have noticed this crater in the Smolensk map, and what type of event caused it. The location is directly east of Liozno and north of Rudnya and it has an elliptical lake in the centre. It would be really awesome if a local from Liozno was able to go check it out in person http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

E_Temperament
03-31-2004, 08:15 PM
Curious to know if any of you forum readers have noticed this crater in the Smolensk map, and what type of event caused it. The location is directly east of Liozno and north of Rudnya and it has an elliptical lake in the centre. It would be really awesome if a local from Liozno was able to go check it out in person http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

noshens
03-31-2004, 08:51 PM
can you make a screenshot of it? Can't find it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

E_Temperament
03-31-2004, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yay1:
can you make a screenshot of it? Can't find it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi yay1, I can't upload files (one of those things I have been meaning to learn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ).
If you can find the town of Liozno then fly directly east and cross the large river which flows sort of north southwest with a letter H section where you cross it. The river is half way to the crater. If you see the large elongated lake that has a river running north then look west from that lake and you should see the small elliptical crater lake. If you still can't find it, then look for the asphalt covered road that runs southeast from Liozno and where it meets Rudnya turn and head north and you should be able to see the crater lake directly in front of you approximately 5km - 7km. BTW the crater walls aren't very steep or high, so to be able to see them you need to fly down into the crater or just crash in the lake, then use camera to zoom and pan.

Udidtoo
03-31-2004, 10:34 PM
It is called the Logoisk crater. Meteorite impact was the cause. I think its around 40 million years old.

Pretty cool that they would include something that little known that most have never noticed when flying that region.

S' to attention to detail

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

LEXX_Luthor
03-31-2004, 10:41 PM
Thanks for the info. I followed the directions on my printed out map.

I suggest landing a P~38 or TB~3 next to the little lake and you can taxi around (I assume the terrain permits this). Both planes make great "trucks" on the ground.

If you have Tolerance and Compassion for FMB, you may just set a takeoff waypoint next to the little lake and don't takeoff but drive around. If the lake is too close (about ~15km) to the nearest FB airport, the takeoff waypoint will snap to the airport when you set the waypoint to TAKEOFF, just drag the thing back next to the lake (not in the lake, you know).

__________________
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"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

E_Temperament
03-31-2004, 11:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Thanks for the info. I followed the directions on my printed out map.

I suggest landing a P~38 or TB~3 next to the little lake and you can taxi around (I assume the terrain permits this). Both planes make great "trucks" on the ground.

If you have Tolerance and Compassion for FMB, you may just set a takeoff waypoint next to the little lake and don't takeoff but drive around. If the lake is too close (about ~15km) to the nearest FB airport, the takeoff waypoint will snap to the airport when you set the waypoint to TAKEOFF, just drag the thing back next to the lake (not in the lake, you know).

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish _"Gladiator"_ listed as _J8A_ _...in Aces Expansion Pack_

_"You will still have FB , you will lose _nothing"__ ~WUAF_Badsight
_"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..."_ ~Bearcat99
_"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age"_ ~ElAurens
:
_"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore_!_"_ ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Lexx, I was actually in the middle of putting a p38 onto the Rudnya airstrip, and then just flying with 3 ai controlled p38's in a cap formation over the crater. But moving the take off point into the crater is a better idea. I just checked the distance and the crater seems to be approximately 7km north of Rudnya.

E_Temperament
03-31-2004, 11:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Udidtoo:
It is called the Logoisk crater. Meteorite impact was the cause. I think its around 40 million years old.

Pretty cool that they would include something that little known that most have never noticed when flying that region.

S' to attention to detail

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glad to see that you are as interested in such details as I am Udidtoo. Just wondering if Oleg and crew know about it, I would imagine that they do http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I was rather reluctant to mention it here at GD, just in case I was wrong in coming to this conclusion. Then I thought "What the heck it just has to be some major cataclysmic event", nothing else that I know of would make a large mounded crater. Except maybe an atomic blast, very doubtful, as it is just too large 5km or more in diameter. Thanks for finding out it's name and posting it here. Curious to know how you came by the name, Udidtoo? 40,000,000 years of age thats awesome http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by E_Temperament on Wed March 31 2004 at 10:29 PM.]

NegativeGee
04-01-2004, 12:27 AM
While it would be nice, I don't think the lake refered to here is the Logoisk crater. The crater is located roughly WSW from Vitebsk. Its position is recorded as Lat. 54.20 Long. 27.80.

Plus, the Logoisk crater has no surface expression, having being infilled by post impact sediments. Cross section B in the below link shows the structure and present day topography:

http://dmi.usf.edu/Tornabene/images/Figures%20and%20Plots/craterprofiles.jpg

Have a go at finding the position of the crater in the Kursk area (although once again with no surface expression).

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

E_Temperament
04-01-2004, 01:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
While it would be nice, I don't think the lake refered to here is the Logoisk crater. The crater is located roughly WSW from Vitebsk. Its position is recorded as Lat. 54.20 Long. 27.80.

Plus, the Logoisk crater has no surface expression, having being infilled by post impact sediments. Cross section B in the below link shows the structure and present day topography:

http://dmi.usf.edu/Tornabene/images/Figures%20and%20Plots/craterprofiles.jpg

Have a go at finding the position of the crater in the Kursk area (although once again with no surface expression).

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh well, if not Logoisk Crater then we have to find out the name of this one. It's too much like a strike from an astronomic object to be anything else, if not then it must be Volcanic.
Going to look for Logoisk WSW of Vitebsk.

MustangWZI
04-01-2004, 02:25 AM
Just found it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Man I find something new in this sim everyday!

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-sig5.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

NegativeGee
04-01-2004, 02:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by E_Temperament:
Oh well, if not Logoisk Crater then we have to find out the name of this one. It's too much like a strike from an astronomic object to be anything else, if not then it must be Volcanic.
Going to look for Logoisk WSW of Vitebsk.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its difficult to tell if it is an impact crater or not.... they can look very deceptive when you just consider the surface features. Its the underlying structure and (if you can find some) geological evidence that would steer towards the conclusion that the feature is a crater.

Talking off which, my wife is going to have a look at some aerograv data she has for the Smolensk area..... I'll let you know if she finds anything, although no promises http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

SeaFireLIV
04-01-2004, 02:56 AM
I`m in Smolensk. Between dodging LW planes I`m gonna try and find this crater!

RdTimeTheCharm
04-01-2004, 03:40 AM
I thought it was a place where one stray .50 cal landed during testfiring in early 1930's :P

Friendly_flyer
04-01-2004, 03:51 AM
At least it's not a vulcano crater. Liozno is a very long way from the nearest tectonic suture or hot-spot. Such crater formations are actually a quite common feature on earth, even though they are ofted difficult to see when you don't know what you are looking for. The Liozno formation would be fairly typical, haveing very gentle slopes. Often, ejecta and such is not vissible at the surface, but the shape of the hills will betray the structure of the bedrock below, just like snow will show the underlying terrain.

Fly friendly!

Petter B¸ckman
Norway

NorrisMcWhirter
04-01-2004, 05:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RdTimeTheCharm:
I thought it was a place where one stray .50 cal landed during testfiring in early 1930's :P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

I can well believe that. It certainly wasn't from an AEP Mk108...!

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

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More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

E_Temperament
04-01-2004, 05:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
At least it's not a vulcano crater. Liozno is a very long way from the nearest tectonic suture or hot-spot. Such crater formations are actually a quite common feature on earth, even though they are ofted difficult to see when you don't know what you are looking for. The Liozno formation would be fairly typical, haveing very gentle slopes. Often, ejecta and such is not vissible at the surface, but the shape of the hills will betray the structure of the bedrock below, just like snow will show the underlying terrain.

_Fly friendly!_

_Petter B¸ckman
Norway_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


At least it's not a vulcano crater. Liozno is a very long way from the nearest tectonic suture or hot-spot.
So it's not a Volcano then?

The Liozno formation would be fairly typical, haveing very gentle slopes. Often, ejecta and such is not vissible at the surface, but the shape of the hills will betray the structure of the bedrock below,
So it is a Volcano then?
Yes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif,,, it is!,,, Not,,,a Volcano. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well at least we are digging up some interesting geological information, my emotions wanted it so dearly to be an Asteroid strike, never the less being an extinct Volcano is just as interesting.

Udidtoo
04-01-2004, 06:34 AM
I should have posted that I assume it to be a reprsentation of and not just flatly stated it is the Logiosk crater.

As Negative G pointed out the Long/Lat. are not correct. I assume it to be a representation because if you fly to the excact coordinates of the actual crater location you will find trees.

Oh, and grass.

Oh, and sometimes parts of my plane will be scattered here and there..

I still commend your intrest in the games features. Refreshing break from "People who shoot chutes are.......fill in the blank" and "The gunsite/roll rate/ damage model/elavator controls for the.....(insert favorite plane here)is busted"

That includes my own rants http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Udidtoo
04-01-2004, 06:34 AM
Man that Error, web page not responding happens a lot lately.

Friendly_flyer
04-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Uups, Temperament, I need to learn to word things a bit less complicated.

No, there can't be any volcanic craters there, extinct or otherwise. Volcanic craters are found in tectonically active areas, the Belarus is not such an area. Unless the crater is a freak of nature or a freak of making the Smolensk map texture (well, its possible), it's very likely an impact structure.

I haven't had the time to go home and check FB out myself, but you can do if you want to. The Logisik crater is supposedly some 15 kilometres vide (10 miles) and with a slightly offset mid peak (where the crust bounces back after impact). The exact location is 54?12'N, 27?48'E. As Udito stated, the crater is mostly buried, but some part of the structure should be visible even beneath impact breccia and topsoil.

Fly friendly!

Petter B¸ckman
Norway

NegativeGee
04-01-2004, 01:33 PM
If you have a look at the cross section of the Logoisk crater (B) in my first post, it shows there is no surface expression of the crater today (i.e. the topography on the axis of the section is not infuenced by the crater beneath).

Also bear in mind the vertical scale is exaggerated by roughly 4x http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I was looking at the Kursk crater and that lies somewhere SW of Kursk itself, although it appears to be outside the boundaries of the IL-2 map.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

E_Temperament
04-01-2004, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
While it would be nice, I don't think the lake refered to here is the Logoisk crater. The crater is located roughly WSW from Vitebsk. Its position is recorded as Lat. 54.20 Long. 27.80.

Plus, the Logoisk crater has no surface expression, having being infilled by post impact sediments. Cross section B in the below link shows the structure and present day topography:

http://dmi.usf.edu/Tornabene/images/Figures%20and%20Plots/craterprofiles.jpg

Have a go at finding the position of the crater in the Kursk area (although once again with no surface expression).

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just another thought regarding Logoisk Crater and it's location being wsw of Vitebsk, in close proximity to the surface feature I have described located approx 7km north of Rudnya and 14km east of Liozno. There could be the possibility that the 2 features were caused by the same event, an Asteroid, comet, meteorite, as it broke in pieces during descent?

E_Temperament
04-01-2004, 10:56 PM
The feature I described at Rudnya is lat. 54.00:long 31.00 +-0.5 degrees according to my rough estimate, that is very close to what you have given for Logoisk Crater, NegativeGee.

tsisqua
04-02-2004, 01:16 PM
Bump

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-02-2004, 01:29 PM
There definitely IS a big hole there. Meteorite or asteroid...they still make a big hole. She definitely isn't a volcano. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

ElektroFredrik
04-02-2004, 02:37 PM
Found it. Very cool map structure.
Simply had to start FMB and set up a
NASCAR-style race course in it with some flak
around the edges and a enemy ship in the middle
just to spice things up.

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"What I study is sex and squirrels" - Jane Waterman
Flying online as Furvert_Elektro

r0xtilux
04-02-2004, 02:44 PM
Why go through all that trouble? I just did a QMB in a jet vs. some bombers on the Smolensk map. Shoot down or ignore the bombers, and then the crater is only like a minute's flight north from the start position.

Shows up best in the morning or early evening, with some side-lighting.

plumps_
04-02-2004, 06:08 PM
I found the place in Encarta World Atlas (99). The position is almost exactly 55?00' 31?00', that's more than 200 km apart from Logoisk and on the Russian side of the border. So this is surely something else. A locality called Dewino is at the SW edge of the 'crater'.

The map isn't very detailed and doesn't give much more information.
I wouldn't draw too many conclusions concerning the real terrain from the in-game maps.

-----------------------------------
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NegativeGee
04-02-2004, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by plumps_:
I wouldn't draw too many conclusions concerning the real terrain from the in-game maps.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats correct, we don't know the data used to compile the IL-2 maps, or how it may have been was played around with either.

I'm going to see the aerograv maps tommorrow, so I'll let you know what is imaged for the IL-2 map structure, and by comparison, the Logoisk crater.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

E_Temperament
04-05-2004, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by plumps_:
I wouldn't draw too many conclusions concerning the real terrain from the in-game maps.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats correct, we don't know the data used to compile the IL-2 maps, or how it may have been was played around with either.

I'm going to see the aerograv maps tommorrow, so I'll let you know what is imaged for the IL-2 map structure, and by comparison, the Logoisk crater.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Waiting patiently, with fingers crossed that it is as real as what the game map shows, this Sim is awesome http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif