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View Full Version : An online n00b's lament......and some q's



slarsson
06-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Spent yesterday having my forst online experience. Things I learned:
1) Hyperlobby is great
2) Many people are kind to noobs
3) Some *&%#@& like to shoot you up on the runway
4) I didn't manage to get a shot on target all day, and had my @$$ handed to me countless times.
5) on the servers with icons and map icons switched off, I can't even find the enemy. When I do see someone, I don't know if he's enemy or friend. What's a chap to do?
6) Is there any easier way to find servers without complex engine management and with icons/map icons without laborously going through the server list?
7) How long will it be before I am not simply dead meat?

Steph Larsson
Vancouver's Island
At or about L 48? 26.06'N, Lo 123? 19.31'W

slarsson
06-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Spent yesterday having my forst online experience. Things I learned:
1) Hyperlobby is great
2) Many people are kind to noobs
3) Some *&%#@& like to shoot you up on the runway
4) I didn't manage to get a shot on target all day, and had my @$$ handed to me countless times.
5) on the servers with icons and map icons switched off, I can't even find the enemy. When I do see someone, I don't know if he's enemy or friend. What's a chap to do?
6) Is there any easier way to find servers without complex engine management and with icons/map icons without laborously going through the server list?
7) How long will it be before I am not simply dead meat?

Steph Larsson
Vancouver's Island
At or about L 48? 26.06'N, Lo 123? 19.31'W

OldPepper
06-14-2004, 12:14 PM
Hi SLarson.

I'm a novice FBer as well.

Personally, I turned CEM on after 2 days to get more performance outta my planes. It's been 2 or 3 weeks now, and I even take planes with AutoPitch to manual now. I always look for Forced Cockpit servers, since I enjoy the "Sim' part more than the 'deathmatch' part.

Download some tracks on Boom and Zooming. You're probably trying to Turn And Burn too much and likely in the wrong A/C for TnB strategy. BnZing is not 'easier' but can help you learn patience and start thinking in Angle Off vectors, aligning lift vectors, etc. Practice the Barrel Roll as well. It will likely save your a** many times with a split S at the end if you can't shake him or put in at 12 o'clock!

It takes time to master this sim, but you have decades ahead of you to keep practicing.

I get to shoot at guys sometimes, but mostly I get shot down! I'm measuring success now in how long I can stay alive after someoe glues themselves to my 6! I'd be happy to host a 1v1 DF together. That should stop your discouragment! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'll keep an eye out for you on HyperL.

I also get lost almost immediately if there's no little "My Plane" icon on the map as well.

Unlike games like UT or Quake, most players on No Cockpit and 'mostly real' servers have been simming WW2 and Jet Combat for years, and maybe decades. Think of it as a sky full of aces, where many of these pilots have played well over 1500 hours of sim in their career! It's about the most obviously 'unrealistic' aspect of IL-2! In reallife, most other pilots up there would not be THAT much better than green lieutenants like us!

It'll take a while to start getting your share of kills against the like of them! Start by NOT getting killed too much, and mastering some basics!

Enjoy and don't get discouraged! There are plenty of servers with more 'arcade-like' settings if you that's what you prefer. I use those setting on QMB at times. I never use No Cockpit. GL HF <S>

[This message was edited by OldPepper on Mon June 14 2004 at 11:23 AM.]

slarsson
06-14-2004, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, O_P!

Steph Larsson
Vancouver's Island
At or about L 48? 26.06'N, Lo 123? 19.31'W

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-14-2004, 12:43 PM
The simplest and quickest way to flatten that learning curve is to get a good wingman (heck almost any wingman is better than none) get on voice coms ( most are all free: http://www.teamspeak.org )

Fly and learn together. It's more fun and you live longer.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Snow_Wolf_
06-14-2004, 12:49 PM
here is a piece of adivce that seem to help

1. If u flying for the Allies just look in a historical Server Just look for any plane that got a Cross painted on the wings or a Rising sun on them (The red circle. If you are flying Axis look for anything with the RAF Marking, the Russian Star, or the Stars and Strips on them.

2. Most Russian Aircraft have V shape wings Example Yak's and La's.
The P-38 is the only bird in the game with a Twin Boom which is flyable.
Fw-190 have square off wings

3. If there is icons on server just look for the other color. Ex if u fly red then look for blue tags and shoo them down

It will come to you once u start fling alot.

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jtsiekki/mono2.gif
"Master the art of Speed without ever getting a Ticket"

eyevann
06-14-2004, 05:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by slarsson:
Spent yesterday having my forst online experience. Things I learned:
1) Hyperlobby is great
2) Many people are kind to noobs
3) Some *&%#@& like to shoot you up on the runway
4) I didn't manage to get a shot on target all day, and had my @$$ handed to me countless times.
5) on the servers with icons and map icons switched off, I can't even find the enemy. When I do see someone, I don't know if he's enemy or friend. What's a chap to do?
6) Is there any easier way to find servers without complex engine management and with icons/map icons without laborously going through the server list?
7) How long will it be before I am not simply dead meat?

Steph Larsson
Vancouver's Island
At or about L 48? 26.06'N, Lo 123? 19.31'W
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, I thought I was the only real noob out there and all you were aces.....I think I have been shot down 200 times in the last 2 months without a single kill. Like you, I have a really tough time seeing the enemy w/o icons but like the realism and try to find the servers with it...still haven't mastered the pitch and mix controls but seems manual pitch versus auto may help performance. Vulchers exist and I have been blown "out of the ground" enough times to get frustrated by it but I deal with it...gone offline for some aerial gunnery practice before coming back on....toughest thing I have found is to see the enemy before he sees you....if he gets on your tail and you don't know it, you're dead...many,many times I have been jinking all over (don't fly straight and level in the combat zone for more than 30 seconds....Battle of Britain" and wam.....my engines smoking or I'm dead...never saw him...probably very much like the real thing except in actual combat, you don't get to come back and refly....

Dammerung
06-14-2004, 06:14 PM
Wanna get better? A few simple things, you'll be shooting down squadrons of Fighters in no time!

1) Fly Full real Dynamic campaigns, and study the object viewer. Cockpit on. Complex management. Black outs. Everything. The earlier you start doing this by yourself, the easier it is to learn it. I've been playing for months, and just now can I start gunning people down with ease.
2) Get a buddy. Why do you think pilots fly in groups?
3) Pick an aircraft and learn it. P-51D is good to start with, you might want to graduate to the P-47D later. For axis, start with a 109 or A6M. When you're ready for something more advanced, go to the P-38L and FW-190.
4) Dont skimp on realism settings, they make you better.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Fehler
06-15-2004, 12:12 AM
Target ID is a must. The sooner you recognize the target, the sooner you can plan your attack.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer! In other words, get to understand what the other side's plane can do.

Axis planes usually have no radiator under the fuselage. Remember this when you are bouncing the other poor guy. Conversely, Allied planes usually have radiators under the fuselage.

Get up high and learn to look down. You can spot tracer fire before you can see a plane silouette. Learn the colors of tracers. Green-Russian, Red with Yellow-Allied. Blue-Axis. Tracers were and are still colored differently to aid in friendly/foe recognition as well as helping a person "Walk" his rounds onto target.

Read some good tactics of air combat. Here is a good link to start with: http://www.wings-of-valor.net/files/documents/energy.pdf

My all time favorite piece of advice is this. Never think defensively. Every move you make is just the next in a series of attacks. Even if the other guy is on your six and you have to run/extend. You do so in order to turn the attack on him!

The great thing about a sim is that you can make all the mistakes you want, and still wake up the next morning. Dont be afraid to experiment.

My number 2 piece of advice is this: Pick a plane and really learn it. I fly the 190's because I love how they look, and I have always loved the wonderful cockpits.

Dont be afraid to join full (Or nearly full) switch servers and when you do, look for ones that also offer communications like Warclouds! You will be amazed how much longer you will survive when others are there to watch your back!

Learn to think three dimensional. What I mean by this is, say you are flying a poor turning plane and another guy is in a superior turning aircraft. Learn to be patient, and think three dimensional. Go up and come back down on him as he turns to cut inside his circle.

Practice gunnery offline against friendly bombers. Graduate to smaller friendly planes. Then to enemy bombers, and finally enemy fighters.

Most of all, enjoy this sim. It is both frustrating and rewarding. Set realistic goals for yourself and attain them. This will get you past the frustrating times and give you a sense of accomplishment when you face different challenges.

Looking forward to seeing you on Warclouds. Come join us!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

tttiger
06-15-2004, 12:53 AM
Develop your skills off line first.

First sim I flew, years ago, I didn't go on line until I had practiced off line for a couple of months. Even when I started flying IL-2, which is about my fifth sim, I flew off line for a couple of weeks just to learn the ropes.

You can still expect to die a lot but at least you will know the envelope of your plane (and stick to one plane) and how to ID the bad guys and the basic tactics.

And, even when you get better on line, go back to Quick Mission Builder and practice off line. Then practice some more. Every day. For at least an hour. Forever.

So, how long did you fly this sim off line before trying to fly on line?

Trying to run before we can walk are we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good Luck. You'll get better. Guaranteed.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

WTE_Galway
06-15-2004, 02:25 AM
join a squadron .. they will train you and fly with you online and watch your six
until you get experience up

as for aircraft recognition .. give away hints include tracer (blue is german) size/shape onscreen (bigger squarer often LW) and colour (LW often yellow VVS often look blueish)

CV8_Dudeness
06-15-2004, 03:37 AM
play lots

ignore the missus & kids

stay up super late hours

spend your time at work thinking about dogfighting

then after 6 months youll be as good as anyone else

lucas_valentine
06-15-2004, 06:52 AM
Learn to use the POV hat-switch...it's the most important control of all...never lose sight of the enemy...even for a second. This is the best piece of advice I can give and it has helped me improve my technique enormously.

slarsson
06-15-2004, 11:16 AM
Thanks for all the advice, guys.
The tracer colours is a potentially useful tip, but I notice on many servers that blue may have a mixture of US, german and russian and british types available. So how do I know if it's a friendly 190, or a bad guy?

Steph Larsson
Vancouver's Island
At or about L 48? 26.06'N, Lo 123? 19.31'W

Dammerung
06-15-2004, 10:14 PM
Simple: Dont fly servers with botched planesets. Fly on Birds of Prey and Warclouds, the people there will help you. Some tracer colors for guns.
Green- ShKAS 7.62 Machine Gun(russian)
Blue- German 12.7mm MG, German MG151/20 20mm cannon, 20mm AAA, and it's ilk.
Red- Most common: Browning .50 cal(no smoke trail). Also- 37mm Cannons, German 7.9 mm Machine guns. Possibly the Soviet 23mm Cannon. Might be yellow. .303 MGs.
Yellow- German Mk108 and Mk103 30mm cannons. If you see these and know it's coming from a German plane, dive and start screaming like a little girl. Also, Japanese 20mm, 30mm, and 7.62. He-111 Defensive fire. Not sure what those are. ShVAK 20mm.(?, Soviet)

For plane ID, the FW190 and Bf109 have very distinctive shapes. If you're fighting Russians, look for either rounded off wings if you're fighting later stuff, or stubby tiny stuff if it's an Early map(I-153, I-16). Most American stuff is very shiny. The P-47 is very distinctive(And you can tell if it starts shooting at you, there will be a LOT of red tracers). The P-40 has bentish wings, the P-38 is probably the most easily recognizable aircraft in the game, be careful, it's deadly. You'll know about the P-39 and P-63 as well, they're pretty distinctive, especially when you have 37mm flying past you. British spitfires are easy to recognize, their wings are somewhat similiar to a P-47's. Also easily recognized from distance due to both Red .50 cals and Yellow 20mm firing at once. If you see a large volume of Blue tracers from one plane, it's probably a FW190. Most 109 drivers carry a 30mm as well. Hope I helped.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Dawg-of-death
06-15-2004, 10:58 PM
If you want to fly on Med settings there seem to be more on UBI than HL. Tuesday@the dawg fights is on right now and up most every day. You as anyone are welcome to join and we are happy to help NOOBs.

S~

BadM-F(Mongrel-Fighter)...... AKA Dawg-of-death
Former Member... Kelly Johnsons...Skunk Works

ruf9ii
06-15-2004, 11:16 PM
i got a few points to give you. dont lose sight of the enemy OR your team mates. if ur flying no icons then u dont want to mistake one for the other. get used to flickin the hat switch like crazy to look around, forget about the mouse except for navigation and ground target recognition (when u use FOV30 'delete' key hat switch is too inaccurate.)
to get to know what planes look like in the game fly offline a lot. this helps your deflection and normal shooting skillz and gives you a feel for most of the planes. IMO, try to 'learn' only a couple of planes, but learn em good. dont try to be a jack of all planes.

if you want to learn tactics u have to fly online. its basically just experience, if u see your opponent hand ur *** to you, take note of wat he did and try it out yourself.
as for learning which colours tracers belong to which planes, i think its a waste of time. it can help a little if you want to know who is shooting at who and if u can give a team mate a hand or not. BUT think of it this way, if you see someone shooting, odds are there is a team mate and an enemy there. not many people waste ammo shooting at trees or clouds etc if they cant see an enemy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif oh, bombers will usually have 2 lines of tracer coming out of the same point, going in relatively opposite directions. Same rule as before, there is a friendly and enemy there.

when flying offline, DONT use externals, they just make you fly lazy. i think it is ok to use HUD view (no cockpit) but only for deflection shooting and navigation. otherwise use the cockpit as well.

take the time to get up high and get a feel for how people play. in a full real game most other flyers will be up high too (5000+) but in a 'quake' flight everyone will be about 500 turn fighting. you are less vulnerable when high too.

and if you have trouble knowing who's friend or foe, find a 'possible' target and get within range to decide for certain if he is an enemy or not. you will have to get to know your planes to do this though. if ur flying online hit 'S' to see player stats. the pings, score, nick, call sign and plane are listed.

also, just a thing on whining in a server. dont do it unless you think someone has violated a rule. if vulching is allowed, deal with it.

eyevann
06-16-2004, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Develop your skills off line first.

First sim I flew, years ago, I didn't go on line until I had practiced off line for a couple of months. Even when I started flying IL-2, which is about my fifth sim, I flew off line for a couple of weeks just to learn the ropes.

You can still expect to die a lot but at least you will know the envelope of your plane (and stick to one plane) and how to ID the bad guys and the basic tactics.

And, even when you get better on line, go back to Quick Mission Builder and practice off line. Then practice some more. Every day. For at least an hour. Forever.

So, how long did you fly this sim off line before trying to fly on line?

Trying to run before we can walk are we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good Luck. You'll get better. Guaranteed.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lots of great stuff here....I have always flown full realism on...look for the servers that most realistically recreate conditions as I believe they would have looked...try to fly the LA-7 as much as possible but some servers don't allow them...it's a T&B fighter with 3 cannons...totally uber. I fly a joystick w/o tophat which may be a problem as I understand tophat allows quick views...I use the number pad on my keyboard for views...much slower and easier to lose sight of enemy...that said, my aerial gunnnery sucks. Can't hit anything, it seems....I'll try friendly bombers...been using hostile bombers but AI gunners are pretty accurate. Need to try prop and mix controls manually rather than auto to see what difference it makes...tough to get in really close where even I can hit something...usually getting that close results in a collision...didn't realize tracer colors id enemy...thanks for that...being married with young family and work does't allow for much practice..usually only real late at night when all are finally asleep and i can finally decompress with some great combat....

Philipscdrw
06-16-2004, 12:12 PM
Please get a hat switch joystick ASAP! Huge benefit.

PhilipsCDRw

"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB here (http://www.aerosociety.com/raes/news/SimReview.pdf) and discuss it here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634)

BpGemini
06-16-2004, 01:56 PM
IMO the best way to get better:
Forget the tutorials
Forget offline
Grab the toughest/hardest plane that you like to fly
Get online
Practice/play with Full Real settings

You'll learn the quickest this way and once you're good you'll be great in any "easier" situation.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_Bloodied.jpg
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)
Original IL-2 P-39 and FB P-63 vet.
The Pig Sty (http://blitzpigs.com/)

eobet
06-16-2004, 02:00 PM
I rarely have time for offline Sturmovik, so I won't go online anytime soon.

I tried it when the game was new, got shot down incredibly quickly.

I just can't seem to be able to get an awareness of what is happening around me.

I know about this head tracking thing (forgot the name), but it seems to be counter intuitive to be looking away from the monitor in order to look around.

So, I wonder, does a joystick with an analogue hat-switch exist? Ie. one where you won't get as drastically disorientating view switches as with a normal digital hat switch?

BpGemini
06-16-2004, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eobet:
I rarely have time for offline Sturmovik, so I won't go online anytime soon.

I tried it when the game was new, got shot down incredibly quickly.

I just can't seem to be able to get an awareness of what is happening around me.

I know about this head tracking thing (forgot the name), but it seems to be counter intuitive to be looking away from the monitor in order to look around.

So, I wonder, does a joystick with an analogue hat-switch exist? Ie. one where you won't get as drastically disorientating view switches as with a normal digital hat switch?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I just use the standard hat switch and hit F9/F11 (which ever one switches the hatswitch to snap instead of pan - you only have to hit it once). That helps with your consistent situational awareness.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_Bloodied.jpg
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)
Original IL-2 P-39 and FB P-63 vet.
The Pig Sty (http://blitzpigs.com/)

Bearcat99
06-16-2004, 03:38 PM
Dont let it bother you... Ive been flying on Hyperlobby for a while now and I still get my butt handed to me. Its a process. Dont concern yourself so much with kills. There are some guys on HL who have been flying in the IL series since it was released in 01. Concentrate on having fun and try to get some satisfation out of staying alive... it helps till your aim gets better and your flying skills improve. Keep it fun...... You can look at any server on HL and see the settings before you join.

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