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Slammin_
04-28-2004, 07:31 PM
I've adjusted plane sets to allow only Axis on Blue and Allies on Red. I have not limited the plane set year, nor made any attempt to do historically accurate scenarios. Server is scripted, limited icons and most maps have ground targets as well as some AAA.

Give it a whirl and let me know what I can do to improve it.

Thanks and S!

Slam

Slammin_
04-28-2004, 07:31 PM
I've adjusted plane sets to allow only Axis on Blue and Allies on Red. I have not limited the plane set year, nor made any attempt to do historically accurate scenarios. Server is scripted, limited icons and most maps have ground targets as well as some AAA.

Give it a whirl and let me know what I can do to improve it.

Thanks and S!

Slam

El Turo
04-28-2004, 07:39 PM
What are your settings for exterior views and cockpit?

I think those make more of a difference in "feel" for it being more realistic than anything else. I tried a cockpit-off server the other night for a little bit and just couldn't believe how fake it felt. Now, I'm not trying to knock people that enjoy "flying" like that.. but just giving you one man's opinion on what the experience was like.

It was interesting for a little bit, being able to pull off incredible deflection shots and whatnot.. but the novelty wore off pretty quickly.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

JG7_Rall
04-28-2004, 08:13 PM
ter<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
What are your settings for exterior views and cockpit?

I think those make more of a difference in "feel" for it being more realistic than anything else. I tried a cockpit-off server the other night for a little bit and just couldn't believe how fake it felt. Now, I'm not trying to knock people that enjoy "flying" like that.. but just giving you one man's opinion on what the experience was like.

It was interesting for a little bit, being able to pull off incredible deflection shots and whatnot.. but the novelty wore off pretty quickly.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed 100%

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

nickdanger3
04-28-2004, 08:27 PM
I find playing no-cockpit REALLY hard now that I plunked down the $$ for a TrackIR. Just insane and no frame of reference like wings and stuff to help figure out where you are looking.

I like the crew at Slammin's so I'm interested in how this will affect the gameplay.

Thanks Slammin for keeping it fresh.

LeadSpitter_
04-28-2004, 08:37 PM
Scripted Historical Plane sets and missions will keep your server full using FR settings just look at both warclouds servers, maybe limited range friendly icons for ts purposes.

All planeset servers seem never to be full except the ones with cockpit off and externals off etc, you know you tried these settings in the past

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/newsig.jpg

rcorporon
04-28-2004, 08:43 PM
I don't mind external views, as it allows me to see the cool damage models of the game (as I'm the guy getting shot to hell most of the time).

I don't like no cockpit servers though.

Ronnie

JRJacobs
04-28-2004, 08:51 PM
i know this is going to set some people off... gulp... sorry but...

could we stop calling it full real? we're peering at a two dimensional screen, without Stereopsis, peripheral vision, nor depth perception, and without for and aft head movement.

or as they say at harvard.
(retinal rivalry implies that in cases in which the visual system cannot get a sensible result out of the combination of the two sets of inputs from the two eyesâ"”either a single fused flat scene if the images are identical or a scene with depth if the images differ only in small horizontal disparitiesâ"”it gives up and simply rejects one of the two)

oh... and additionaly there is no "feel" of an aircraft -

if we had this "view" in wwii they wouldn't have let our myopic behinds in ANY branch, they'd have made us 4F

how 'bout we call it "full difficulty"
( he says as he stop, drops and rolls )

"if you're a story teller and someone listens while you tell that story you're an artist..."
"If you're a story teller and no-one is listening while you tell that story you're schizophrenic..."
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."
-- Robert E. Lee
www.virtualjake.com (http://www.virtualjake.com)
Virtual Movie Forum at http://www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/

http://jrjacobs.mystarband.net/images/squad%20logo.jpg

JRJacobs
04-28-2004, 09:03 PM
just what the hell is this "message body is a mandatory field" EVERY time i try to edit a post phhhhhhhhttttttttttt

so he says...
*NOTE* although someone else used something this in their sig ah-hem...
The above was a joke... any actual attempt at being funny was purely coincidental and humor created by this comment is purely fictional and bears no resemblance to any true humor living or dead

"if you're a story teller and someone listens while you tell that story you're an artist..."
"If you're a story teller and no-one is listening while you tell that story you're schizophrenic..."
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."
-- Robert E. Lee
www.virtualjake.com (http://www.virtualjake.com)
Virtual Movie Forum at http://www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/

http://jrjacobs.mystarband.net/images/squad%20logo.jpg

JG6_Oddball
04-28-2004, 09:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> JRJacobs
posted 28-04-04 19:51



i know this is going to set some people off... gulp... sorry but...

could we stop calling it full real? we're peering at a two dimensional screen, without Stereopsis, peripheral vision, nor depth perception, and without for and aft head movement.

or as they say at harvard.
(retinal rivalry implies that in cases in which the visual system cannot get a sensible result out of the combination of the two sets of inputs from the two eyesâ"”either a single fused flat scene if the images are identical or a scene with depth if the images differ only in small horizontal disparitiesâ"”it gives up and simply rejects one of the two)

oh... and additionaly there is no "feel" of an aircraft -

if we had this "view" in wwii they wouldn't have let our myopic behinds in ANY branch, they'd have made us 4F<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

spot on JR, A simple misnomer has caused page after page of inane bickering http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, FULL SWITCH is another good way to descibe it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!

http://www.geocities.com/rbmercsguild/pics/havespandua.txt

Slammin_
04-28-2004, 09:40 PM
Sorry for the brevity.

Settings are no cockpit, limited icons (enemy icon visible within 1k, friendly visible within 6k), no ext views, no padlock, no map icons. Everything else is pretty much inline with the standard FULL SWITCH settings as well.

I am in no way trying to compete with the more historically accurate servers, and am only graduating what was already there to the more difficult settings. To do what GG and Warclouds do requires quite a bit of research and effort and a lot more time than I have available but hopefully dogfighting fans will find it a nice diversion.

S!

Slam

Stalker58
04-29-2004, 01:06 AM
Bravo Slammin_! There is never enough of good err...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif FR servers!

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

LeadSpitter_
04-29-2004, 01:20 AM
how about HD hardest difficulty setting, Nothing wrong with calling it FR just call it full realistic settings instead of FR jacobs FULL REAL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/newsig.jpg

Eagle_361st
04-29-2004, 01:24 AM
If it's got a P-47 paint me there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

Heartland
04-29-2004, 02:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
...no cockpit, limited icons (enemy icon visible within 1k, friendly visible within 6k), no ext views, no padlock, no map icons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this sounds like a very good compromise between "realism" and obviously fake.

Speaking for myself, I would simply LOVE to be able to do a full "realism" game, but twitching around a little hat-control to turn my head while scanning the sky in a vastly restricted arc simply isn't that realistic.

A small measure of pilot aid is needed for me to enjoy the game fully without it becoming a chore. Like the restricted icons mentioned above, or limited short-range padlock. A good compromise to offset the very unrealistic lack of FOV and other details in a computer sim.

SeaFireLIV
04-29-2004, 03:50 AM
Full real, full difficulty... WHO CARES! This quibbling is stupid and it`s not gonna stop me calling it full real if I want to. It`s missing the point anyway of this thread.

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`

nixon-fiend.
04-29-2004, 04:00 AM
I think it'd be a really good idea to turn the cockpit on -

We have virtually omnipresent servers for cockpit off+externals on.. and also FR on.. But none for cockpit on + externals on.. a combination i get the most out of.

There's so much more enjoyment in trying to get off a shot when you're slightly restricted.

Although I fly about half the time with externals off, I do prefer them on _with a locked cockpit_ ... Ext. on is great for immersion, bouncing people is easier BUT it's a little restricting (obviously) and i find that in ext. on servers; most people fly under 1000 and straight across flightpaths so as to be able to locate each other. Ext. on dogfights tend to be a bit wooden too.. circle,cirle,circle.

Maybe TIR would change that. But i don't got it.

Bull-Dog.
04-29-2004, 05:39 AM
Ive got to agree with NIXON-FRIEND on this one,I also prefer cockpit on + externals on settings.
Even with Tir I find Full Switch servers difficult and sometimes boring as I find it hard to find the action.
Having said that, if Slammin`s gone that way, I`m with him.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/bull_dog/images/4-picture.jpg?0.9775497653600231

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-29-2004, 05:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull-Dog.:
...Even with Tir I find Full Switch servers difficult and sometimes boring as I find it hard to find the action...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thus the reason for a decent mission brief with coordinates.

It's kind of like a watering hole in Africa during the drought. People will show up if there's a reason. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It doesn't have to be an extensive, involved mission with intricate ground targets...just something to draw somebody there. There has to be some incentive/reward, but it doesn't really take too much to make it functional.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

SeaFireLIV
04-29-2004, 06:16 AM
Slammin`s going the correct way. Get rid of noobish players who can`t fly straight and argue the toss on what they perceive as fair or not fair.

Good settings tend to have
1. Cockpit on,
2. map icon ONLY for your own plane, not others (so you can find way around).
3. Complex engine management, spins, stalls, etc
4. Limited icons to ease most players in ( I personally prefer NO icons, but a lot of people can`t hack that).

I like outside views, but problem with that is that damnable F6 tactic that i totally hate. You should go close and identify a target or use the icons. So it`s a host decision, for game play against Humans I would personally DISABLE outside views.

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`

pettera
04-29-2004, 07:09 AM
"Full realism" servers are to demanding for most of us in terms of skill and time available. Also, outside views are so beautiful that it is a shame not to have them available.

A possible compromise is to have cockpit on but allow outside views and limited icons to be able to identify enemies. I do agree that F6 is anoying (I use it a lot myself) since it very often locks you into some spiraling turnfights.

An other issue is to limit the plane sets. Russian planes for russians and so on is the obvious choice. So please give us that. I personally find it more fun to fly when the plane sets are limited to earlier planes. So variety and limitations on the plane sets are welcome. I think UK Dedicated were quite good at that. Balancing the plane sets are not easy but it is very fun when I get the best plane :-).

Keep up the good work and thanks for making servers available to us.

Petter

p1ngu666
04-29-2004, 07:15 AM
some early war stuff would be good. much more fun imo than latewar stuff that gets flown 90%of the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

cockpit on, i dont mind either way, if its allowed off thats how ill fly

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

BaldieJr
04-29-2004, 07:18 AM
Use the same settings as Warclouds. It may take a few days to catch on, but you probably already know this.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
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+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

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FA_Maddog
04-29-2004, 08:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Slammin`s going the correct way. Get rid of noobish players who can`t fly straight and argue the toss on what they perceive as fair or not fair.

Good settings tend to have
1. Cockpit on,
2. map icon ONLY for your own plane, not others (so you can find way around).
3. Complex engine management, spins, stalls, etc
4. Limited icons to ease most players in ( I personally prefer NO icons, but a lot of people can`t hack that).

I like outside views, but problem with that is that damnable F6 tactic that i totally hate. You should go close and identify a target or use the icons. So it`s a host decision, for game play against Humans I would personally DISABLE outside views.

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the settings we have on our server(FallenAngels) in HL, except we have no icons & external views.

SpookyRuben
04-29-2004, 08:19 AM
Slammin, I think it is great that you are looking for some input from the community regarding difficulty settings. You asked for it, so here is my two cents...

I like to think that I do a fair amount of online flying, and would very much like to see more servers run with higher difficulty settings. As your server has been a staple of the Hyperlobby, I think that making the move towards higher difficulty settings would be great for the community. There are so few servers right now running higher difficulty settings while there are so many running with lower settings (which mostly sit empty btw).

Just so you know where I am coming from, I will only fly on servers with cockpit on, no externals, and if there is a mini map it should only have my plane showing. The reason I am so particular about these requirements is that when I fly I want to know that I beat my opponent by using superior situational awareness, good use of tactical maneuvering and gunnery skill. If any of these settings are not enabled I don't feel that I can fly with any confidence in gaining the needed advantage to best my opponent. As an example, I am closing from his low six, but with externals he could hit F3 at any time and all my work is for nothing. As well, if I get shot down, I like to think that it was due to my opponent being better at the above, or that he has capitalised on an error that I have made.

One final note regarding Icons and Padlock. I'm cool either way. Personally I only find Padlock usefull when I have some altitude (don't have TrackIR...yet), because when I'm on the deck it becomes a bit dicey keeping the nose up heheh. With regards to Icons a happy medium is Limited Icons (shorter range, and less info), for those who feel the need to fly with no Icons they do have the option of toggling them off, and for those pilots who don't have great machines it helps keep them from being sitting ducks. Besides, when you have got someone on your 12o'clock (or six) Icons become irrelevent.

I admit the sim isn't perfect, but it is the best thing we have going. We should try to use it to the fullest. I really hope you consider uping the difficulty settings, we could use another server like that.

Cheers,

Spook

Recap...

1. Cockpit on.
2. No externals.
3. Minimap should only show the players postion.
4. Padlock, Icons, SpeedBar, anything goes.

btw, I wish this forum had a preview function.

Mence
04-29-2004, 11:49 AM
The server I saw and liked the best was the Pacific1941-43 server. It had limited planeset and some flyable bombers to make things better.

1. Cockpit on.
2. Externals for the flyable bombers.
3. Minimap shows player ONLY.
4. Padlock on for those without TIR.
5. Speed bar.
6. Super limited icons only like a click and a half showing just the distance(perfect).

The room has been full each time it has been up.

PEr_Gavran
04-29-2004, 12:12 PM
Glad to hear about the new settings.....
Warclouds gets overcrowded now and then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.sideshow-atelier.com/spit_sig.jpg

nickdanger3
04-29-2004, 01:42 PM
Slammin' - I remember a while back you kept the cockpit on and the crowd went away. I wonder if that would happen now. It seems like there are a lot of people kicking around the cockpit on/externals on combo with Warcloud-eque icons. I think that'd be great. One problem with Warclouds (IMHO) is you can't use the more effective AI bombers since externals are off.

Is it possible in a scripted server to have different difficulty setting for different missions? IE. do one cockpit on, then a cockpit off? That might be kinda cool.

Again, thanks for your generosity in hosting us all.

HayateKid
04-29-2004, 03:34 PM
Use the same settings as the original WarClouds. I.e, same as current setting but with externals on. Also restrict axis/allied planesets but allow all planes/year. Somebody needs to fill the niche that Warclouds left.

And i need a cockpit-on server with the Ki-84. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And please don't limit to Western front planesets only. We need more variety.

Thanks.

Also, can you make the dotrange settings the same for friendlies and enemys. I think it's just not realistic that you can see friendlies farther out than enemies. You see your teammates engaging an invisible opponent.

"First learn stand, then learn fly. Nature rule, Daniel San, not mine." - Mr. Miyagi

SKurj2
04-29-2004, 03:53 PM
Personally...

No Icons... whoever came up with that idea needs a kick in the head... sorry to me it makes no sense and no it doesn't make your 2d screen at 1280x1024 any more of a realistic cockpit or view. The argument maybe in RL they never saw icons.. well in RL they also had the equivalent of 10,000,000,000 x 10,000,000,000 resolution on a screen... geez.. no idea how big.. lets say miles across..

No minimap icons... another stupid idea, just player icon is fine

Limited icons are great, but please include friendly player names in the icon, so at least you know who to communicate with


My thots +)

SKurj

609IAP_Recon
04-29-2004, 04:00 PM
Slammin - nice server.

Can I recommend turning off the icons?

just speedbar is great - the bases are nice and close, and with that map, it's easy to navigate.

Great stuff - I look forward to no more icons!

Thanks!

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

Slammin_
04-29-2004, 04:14 PM
I'm trying to digest all this. Also, keep in mind, I am only trying to ease what we already had on the old settings into the more difficult settings. I still consider my server a fantasy server though, but hopefully a good DF and practice arena for learning to deal with good sized furballs. Also, I hope to retain the fast action and I think I will need to be careful with the icon settings to retain that. It's really hard to judge though because so much depends on the skills of the players in-game as far as how fast/dangerous the environment is. My hope is to retain that 'wheels up-straight into the mix' fast environment that was there with the old settings.

I think this thread is going to benefit all of us because the only way to know what we all want is for us to discuss. If nothing else, there are sure a lot of good ideas out there!

Keep it coming!

S!

Slam

Slammin_
04-29-2004, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull-Dog.:
Ive got to agree with NIXON-FRIEND on this one,I also prefer cockpit on + externals on settings.
Even with Tir I find Full Switch servers difficult and sometimes boring as I find it hard to find the action.
Having said that, if Slammin`s gone that way, I`m with him.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/bull_dog/images/4-picture.jpg?0.9775497653600231 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Bull-Dog. And no worry. I think we are along the same line here. I love the fast action. I know how to create maps and adjust settings for fast action. I now want the same fast action, but with the more advanced settings. Not even sure if there is a crowd out here for that, but this is my goal.

Thanks,

S!

Slam

Slammin_
04-29-2004, 08:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG50_Recon:
Slammin - nice server.

Can I recommend turning off the icons?

just speedbar is great - the bases are nice and close, and with that map, it's easy to navigate.

Great stuff - I look forward to no more icons!

Thanks!

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really do think that turning off icons entirely is pretty viable. If you can get lost on these small maps, then you are a worse navigator than I am :-)

Really, my only concern with turning off all icons is the fact that I allow so many planes per side. Can so many of you visually ID the full monte?

Also, I suspect that turning off icons will indeed slow the action down. Again, input required.

Thanx All!

nickdanger3
04-30-2004, 08:29 PM
Like others have said, I think the Warclouds settings are good, especially now that you have the Red and Blue sides restricted to their own planes. Since Warclouds doesn't give the range to the icon, I don't know how close you have to get to ID but it sure FEELS closer than the default 5km (right?) and pretty much on the mark.

Like I said, now with TrackIR flying in the No Cockpit world is VERY disorienting. It seems like with your commitment to fast action, that using close bases, modified icons, and limited AA and objects, that locked Cockpit might work for your server....

Everybody wants their own settings and has the justifications to back it up...lol.

Again thanks for your generosity - aloha.

Slammin_
05-01-2004, 04:10 AM
Yeah, it does sound like a juggling act sometimes. Just when I was thinking it to be a good idea to enable padlock, some folks point out the new found abilities padlock empowers pilots, besides the obvious ones I figured on. I had no idea padlock allows tracking through clouds, and that alone is a show stopper.

Glad I asked!

Mence
05-01-2004, 01:18 PM
Padlocking thru clouds is a myth. If not let's see a track. You can tighten up the icon settings to prevent this as has been pointed out before.

Slammin_
05-01-2004, 01:49 PM
I see. Then it sounds like since I have FOE icons at 1k, enabling padlock should be fine then. Thanx.

Slammin_
05-01-2004, 07:29 PM
LOL, just joined my server and got dealt with. I think I need some more practice with these new settings.