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Flygflottilj16_Sulan
07-30-2004, 12:30 PM
Hi!
Thinking about investing in an ATI Radeon X800pro... My question is:

I have a 4X AGP port, will this decrease performance of the card compared to an 8X AGP port?

Flygflottilj16_Sulan
07-30-2004, 12:30 PM
Hi!
Thinking about investing in an ATI Radeon X800pro... My question is:

I have a 4X AGP port, will this decrease performance of the card compared to an 8X AGP port?

carguy_
07-30-2004, 12:34 PM
AGP8 really doesn`t give you much.Maybe 2 or 4 fps.

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ZG77_Nagual
07-30-2004, 12:44 PM
rgr that, not much to choose there

ASM 1
07-30-2004, 01:54 PM
just out of interest, what sort of system do you have? (agp speed is the last of your worries) if your CPU can cope then it should be fine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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eXtra_Corrosiv
07-30-2004, 02:47 PM
2-4 fps... same as moving from agp 8x to pci express

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Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
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p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.

Flygflottilj16_Sulan
07-31-2004, 10:20 AM
Intel Pentium4 2,2 Ghz
512mb DDR-ram

Asus-"something" motherboard

RavagerOCHW
07-31-2004, 11:17 AM
I would say that 4x to 8x give you ...0 fps. =o)

Weather_Man
07-31-2004, 12:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RavagerOCHW:
I would say that 4x to 8x give you ...0 fps. =o)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed. Between -.5 to +.5 difference.

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Lith1um
07-31-2004, 05:58 PM
I have an X800xt pe, but I think I would rather have a 6800GT than an x800pro.

Nvidia is kickin butt in doom 3 with ogl performance, and IL2 perfect mode requires ogl.

just my personal opinion.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-31-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lith1um:
I have an X800xt pe, but I think I would rather have a 6800GT than an x800pro.

Nvidia is kickin butt in doom 3 with ogl performance, and IL2 perfect mode requires ogl.

just my personal opinion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO so you look just at 1 or 2 games when making such a big investment ?

i would buy a graphics card with the best overall performance with DirectX and OpenGL
but hey thats just me....... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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lbhskier37
07-31-2004, 08:46 PM
With your system you shouldnt get this card. You will need to upgrade your processor/board to play BoB descently, and if you buy the X800 in AGP format you will be stuck with AGP. In less than 6 months PCI express will be the standard on all performance systems, so to upgrade then you will need to get a new card too. Even if PCIe wasnt coming, your system is way to slow to take advantage of that card. If you really need something get a 9800pro right now to hold you over and save up to buy a whole new system once BoB and PCIe is out.

ps I am not recommending PCIe because of the performance improvement(which is nil) I am recommending it so you will have an upgrade path in the future.

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pcisbest
08-01-2004, 02:33 AM
"In less than 6 months PCI express will be the standard on all performance systems, so to upgrade then you will need to get a new card too." Please.

There is no way on earth PCI express will be the "standard" in only 6 months; have you done a search to see just how rare the new mobos are, not to mention expensive? Also, what about the new form factors and psus? No, the regular old ATX with an AGP mobo is still the norm and will be for at least a year and a half.

Aaron_GT
08-01-2004, 03:31 AM
He said for 'performance systems', i.e. for systems targeted at high performance gaming systems PCI express will be the new thing to have. It will take AGP a while to die off, of course, at the more budget end of things.

Capt.LoneRanger
08-01-2004, 03:50 AM
In less than 6 month PCI standard?

Don't believe what the producers say. They want to make a LOT of money for 2 FPS more.

The possibilities the PCIe has are large, but not revolutionary. And to use this advantage you got to have a REALLY fast memory and a CPU, that is a LOT faster than AMD 64.
So, if you read the news, the new processors are - with a lot of optimism - available at the end of 2005. THEN you'd have to buy a new board for them and of course new memory. Anybody who buys PCIe now has way too much money to spend, IMHO.
Even AGP8x is barely used to it's max and it's on the market for 6+ years, now.

For OpenGl nVidia is still better than ATi. I had an ATi9800 pro and now switched to 6800GT. Makes even excellent mode a whole new experience. ATi still cannot display the haze correctly - sad, but true.
(Not to speak of perfect - from 5 FPS to 40FPS for me)

But before I'd spend that much money on a x800 I'd invest in a stick of RAM. Improves gameplay and loading-times a lot.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

Lith1um
08-01-2004, 10:16 AM
pci express does have one cool benefit.

the potential to interleave two video cards. Soon we will see motherboards with 2 pcix x16 slots which will allow you to utilize 2 pcix vid cards.

so purchasing a pci express video card may have benefits. Imagine the cool combinations,

buy one pcix high end card now, and another when the prices drop.

buy two right of the start and have one bad system.

buy two mid rang cards at the start.....

lots of possibilities. Im thinking my next card will be pcix.

There are already oem's marketing this. It may not be revolutionary (voodoo sli), but it has been dormant for some time. Gonna be a cool tech.

Lith1um
08-01-2004, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:

LMAO so you look just at 1 or 2 games when making such a big investment ?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said that.

Performance wise the 6800gt matches the x800pro blow by blow in direct X games. Driver performance is vastly improved over the initial launch state. They are effectively equal at direct X.

Opengl wise, the 6800gt walks the x800pro. I run opengl because its a requirement for perfect mode. Nvidia's ogl drivers simply rock. Ogl games like Medal of honor, call of duty, etc predominate the industry. Doom 3 is upon us and many are excited about it, as am I. The 6800gt simply thrashes the x800pro in d3. Half life 2 will be a diff story though.

I must say your lmao response came across rather condescending and childish.

I own a 9800pro and an x800xtpe. I can admit that the 6800gt may be a better card for most people compared to the x800pro.

Capt.LoneRanger
08-01-2004, 10:42 AM
Well, Lith1um, the SLI-technology is nice, yes, but it is taken into consideration, not that it is very close. If you read what nVidia said about the possibilities, then read it to the end.
The possibility comes with a real big disadvantage. If you have to split the data between 2x PCIe (not PCIX - that is something different) this work is done by the CPU. So, Every bit that goes to the one or other card has to pass through the CPU and the memory, before going to the PCIe ports.
And that is exactly, what I meant. If you want to use the PCIe-benefits, you got to use memory, MB and CPU, that is not even invented, yet. nVidia prosponed, that it will utilize a 4Gig CPU and Memory working at least four times as fast as the fastes memory available today, to get this double pack working with todays standard workload. Not to speak from an advantage of the double-pack - that would even need faster hardware.

And, sorry, but I doubt this will be available before 2006, and I'll definately NOT spend 2x400$ for something that is as fast as a conventional AGPx8 GFX-card.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-01-2004, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
In less than 6 month PCI standard?

Don't believe what the producers say. They want to make a LOT of money for 2 FPS more.

The possibilities the PCIe has are large, but not revolutionary. And to use this advantage you got to have a REALLY fast memory and a CPU, that is a LOT faster than AMD 64.
So, if you read the news, the new processors are - with a lot of optimism - available at the end of 2005. THEN you'd have to buy a new board for them and of course new memory. Anybody who buys PCIe now has way too much money to spend, IMHO.
Even AGP8x is barely used to it's max and it's on the market for 6+ years, now.

For OpenGl nVidia is still better than ATi. I had an ATi9800 pro and now switched to 6800GT. Makes even excellent mode a whole new experience. ATi still cannot display the haze correctly - sad, but true.
(Not to speak of perfect - from 5 FPS to 40FPS for me)

But before I'd spend that much money on a x800 I'd invest in a stick of RAM. Improves gameplay and loading-times a lot.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True words, but one question, what settings do you got 5FPS on Perfekt with an ATI-9800Pro ?

(im asking because i get an average of 50 in a NON-PRO)

BTW: doom3 is nVidia "Biased" because they are supporting the game. HL-2 is ATI_supported so the 6800 will suck there...
u should compare on games which are not influenced by these two to compare performance.

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olaleier
08-01-2004, 11:18 AM
PCI express is already pushing AGP out - on Intels Socket 775.

Socket 939 is introducing PCIe now, and in a year and half, noone is buying or selling AGP equipment, even on budget systems.

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lbhskier37
08-01-2004, 12:25 PM
You guys can go ahead and buy high end AGP stuff right now, but in 6 months you are looking for an upgraded board/processor and have to get an outdate board to use your card thats fine by me. I realize the performance improvement isnt there, but I see the writing on the wall. Intel has basically dumped AGP, so if you want to upgrade to an intel board 6 months from now its either going to be PCIe or its going to have to be a VIA or SIS junk chipset board. As for AMD in the next few months all of their boards will be going PCIe. You will still be able to get AGP boards, but if you want the latest you will be stuck with PCIe. And even if you can get AGP boards then, if you want them to hold new video cards in the future you will need PCIe. If I had to bet, I would say that the next generation of highend video cards will be PCIe only in their highest end parts, you still saw PCI video cards long after AGP came around, but how many high end ones did you see?

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Capt.LoneRanger
08-01-2004, 01:05 PM
olaleier wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Socket 939 is introducing PCIe now, and in a year and half, noone is buying or selling AGP equipment, even on budget systems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


To be exact, with highend gfx-cards the PCIe is 0-1% faster than AGP. As I said, PCIe is a good chance for upcoming titles, but just look at LOMAC or other games that aim at the hardware of tomorrow. They are not limited to the bandwith of the APG port, but to the limit of CPU and memory.
PCIe doesn't change that. The only way to use PCIe interface with hardware and software on the market is by pushing up AA & AF to their max at a resolution of 1600x1200. This setting reaches the maximum throughput of data of the APG-port as it is today. When it is standard to play games at those settings the PCIe is really usefull.

But I agree, olaleier. The number of high-end-systems and plug-and-play-PCs will switch to PCIe until the end of the year or early next year. But that is not because of it's advantages, but for pure profit. And that is, what this hype is all about and right now, it's really just a hype.

This is a nice benchmark of the wonder PCIe's and just one example:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_x800_x600_xt/page19.asp


@ ToP_BlackSheep
I run perfect settings, 1280x960, Cat4.7 (&4.8).
I know that you CAN get 60FPS+ with an 9800pro or non-pro in perfect setting, but that really depends on what you do and where you play. Then the ATi tends to drop through the cellar in a fierce dogfight and there your plane goes right there, too. It's the min-FPS that are important, not the max FPS sitting on ground or flying at high altitudes.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

olaleier
08-01-2004, 01:47 PM
Noone is saying that PCIe itself offers increased performance.

The x800/6800 series doesn't push AGP 8x to the max, but the next generation WILL.

The industry is migrating towards PCIe because it is a better port and a better technical solution than AGP in the long run.

The main point is: if you buy a new vid card now with AGP, you'll have to replace it if/when you upgrade to a socket 775/939 system, even though the vid card itself can hold its own.

Now, spending another $300 after six (or whatever) months isn't THAT much, but I'm picky about spending as little as possible. My planned upgrade is a socket 939 with the best price/performance CPU, keep my gig of DDR-400 and an X800XT PCIe in Jan/Feb.

Then even better vid cards will come in March/April. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-01-2004, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lith1um:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:

LMAO so you look just at 1 or 2 games when making such a big investment ?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said that.

Performance wise the 6800gt matches the x800pro blow by blow in direct X games. Driver performance is vastly improved over the initial launch state. They are effectively equal at direct X.

Opengl wise, the 6800gt walks the x800pro. I run opengl because its a requirement for perfect mode. Nvidia's ogl drivers simply rock. Ogl games like Medal of honor, call of duty, etc predominate the industry. Doom 3 is upon us and many are excited about it, as am I. The 6800gt simply thrashes the x800pro in d3. Half life 2 will be a diff story though.

I must say your lmao response came across rather condescending and childish.

I own a 9800pro and an x800xtpe. I can admit that the 6800gt may be a better card for most people compared to the x800pro.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


sorry for the LMAO i did misread your post a little

anyway how about buying an X800pro and unlocking those extra pipes ? ive read its not that hard
just like you can with 9800SE==&gt;pro

i own a 9800pro wich runs well beyond XT speeds
on stock cooling maybe this can be the same as with the X800pro i dont know
but if i can unlock those pipes and make it a XT i sure as hell would buy an X800pro above a 6800GT
i already heard its possible and with a little efford you can save some big bucks this way

anyway Nvidia has give me some problems with their cards and i dont like them
so im going for ATI anyway b/c ive had a 9000np 9700np and 9800pro and not ever i had a single problem with them and the driver support is topnotch
but anyones his own i think http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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1.JaVA_Razer
08-01-2004, 03:01 PM
I saved myself the effort of reading all that was writen here already but:

PCI express or the bridge chip is so full of bugs right now it's sometimes a bit faster or sometimes even slower then AGP 8x

So it'll be to my assumptions still 2 years before we'll see PCI express as SATA is now

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Rogodin
08-01-2004, 09:05 PM
Most of the hardware junies upgrade every 5-7 months anyways (at leat I do) so I don't see it being a problem-since he didn't ask about the performance and upgradablility of his rig 1-2 years down the road.

Get the card.

rogo

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Lith1um
08-02-2004, 04:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:

anyway how about buying an X800pro and unlocking those extra pipes ? ive read its not that hard
just like you can with 9800SE==&gt;pro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta love ATI for things like unlockable pipes. They made alot of people happy.

the x800 to xt mod has huge potential. most of the mod's Ive seen done require a bios flash, but I notice there is a new custom driver set built by "Unian" which features a pro to xt softmod. Not sure if it works, but its worth trying.

http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/driverarticle/page2.htm

For ATI card users with dormant pipes that article is a good read.

Have a good one!