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matkal80
05-20-2004, 09:06 AM
It would be quiet nice to be able to fly in formation over battleship Missouri in the Tokyo Bay , where surrender ceremony is taking place, as your last assigment in US Navy after victorious campign.

F4U's and F6F's fly in formation during surrender ceremonies

http://www.grunts.net/album/navy/tokyobay.gif

[This message was edited by matkal80 on Thu May 20 2004 at 08:25 AM.]

matkal80
05-20-2004, 09:06 AM
It would be quiet nice to be able to fly in formation over battleship Missouri in the Tokyo Bay , where surrender ceremony is taking place, as your last assigment in US Navy after victorious campign.

F4U's and F6F's fly in formation during surrender ceremonies

http://www.grunts.net/album/navy/tokyobay.gif

[This message was edited by matkal80 on Thu May 20 2004 at 08:25 AM.]

tigerroach
05-20-2004, 09:08 AM
Assuming you were flying on the Allied side, and all goes well, yah. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flying in formation like that is pretty hard though!

spoonfish
05-20-2004, 09:18 AM
Interesting, why did the Americans do that? Was it to demonstrate their might to the Japanese or something? Convince any rebels it wasn't worth the hassle perhaps?

matkal80
05-20-2004, 09:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigerroach:
Assuming you were flying on the Allied side, and all goes well, yah. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flying in formation like that is pretty hard though!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can always fly over battleship Yamato anchored at San francisco bay, when playing IJN side

Aztek_Eagle
05-20-2004, 09:37 AM
it was an importand moment, time for the airshow celebration, they are mosly screaming, yea i made it, i am going back home! we wont have to suffer the last masive counter atack that the japanese were preparing vs our carriers task force............. most of those pilot's carriers would have been atacked by a masive kamikaze wave from japan as soon as they came into reach, and many of them would have been killed under their burning decks, many belive that when the b29s werent finding no more oposition in the air while doing their bombruns that the japanese had run out of planes, yes many loses of curse, but they were keeping planes in reserve as well as fuel for the one last battle, witch would have been surely the bloodiest battle ever, and sure gives us good storys for making ww2 aviation movies by holywood, where some dude by him self safes the entire carrier task force from destruction......

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/AztekEaglesig.JPG

PF_RoryOMoore
05-20-2004, 09:57 AM
I'm not sure that the displays were for the Japanese as much as they were for the Soviet Union. The US was already trying to contain the communists both in Europe and Asia late in WWII. Eventhough they were allies, the US was trying to keep as much Lend-lease equipment out of the hands of the Soviets and the Maoist army in China. What was given to them was outdated. The US did not want to arm potential future enemies at that point. My grandfather was in China with the US Army finishing the Burma Road in the last months of the war. He told me his unit's last orders were to keep their equipment out of communist hands. He was flown out right before the war ended and he said that the other guys in his unit were evacuated after the Maoists ceased their equipment at gunpoint. He still thinks to this day some of his buddies were killed over that equipment. My long winded point is that the west and the communist world had already began the Cold War before the war ended. There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.

&gt;&gt;!S!&lt;&lt; Rory O'Moore, CO Phantom Fighters

http://www.uploadit.org/RoryOMoore/911.jpg http://www.uploadit.org/RoryOMoore/bandera.jpg
http://www.artjunky.com/phantomfighters/images/419x100phantomfighters01.gif (http://phantomfighters.sqhq.net/)

Stuntie
05-20-2004, 12:36 PM
Notice a distinct lack of carriers in the bay.

Send in the unimportant battleships in case of problems. But keep the carriers out and moving.

The pacific war started with a mass of japanese aircraft flying over an American bay, and ending with a mass of American planes flying over the Japanese surrender party. Kind of fitting in a way.

Cheers.
Stuntie

sugaki
05-20-2004, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what, I never thought of that, that's an excellent point. Definitely though, from the day Japan was defeated US actively wooed Japan to make sure it didn't take sides with the Communist Eastern Bloc.

Aztek_Eagle
05-20-2004, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sugaki:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what, I never thought of that, that's an excellent point. Definitely though, from the day Japan was defeated US actively wooed Japan to make sure it didn't take sides with the Communist Eastern Bloc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think you guys are already changing history by ur self, u think they would give a s... about the comunist at the point where they were face wiht a calculated more than a million casualitis "(if they were lucky) plus a 70% of death of all japanese living person childrens women, old man, andmen. ofcurse fighting .... they calculate the war would have finish by 1947 as the japanese have yet more than a million troops in the home land... and showing what kind of defences the japanese were starting to use at time of peliliu, iwo jima, and okinawa, no more the suicidal infantery runs, so it would surely bleed withe the americans, than probabely several invasion would have been send each time the last one was blown out of the map


and this coment realy annoyed me, u make it sound like, ho yea lets blow up some hundreths 1000s to show ppl that we r strong yea we r the men... sure

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/AztekEaglesig.JPG

NW-LiteBulb
05-20-2004, 06:36 PM
I have to agree with you there Aztek.

Dropping the A bombs was the last step befor invasion and undboubtelby saved lives in the long run. As you say the amount of casualties for both sides would have been herendous had the US tried to invade.

Saying <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I feel is frankly disrespectful to the people that dropped the 2 A bombs and ofcorse the people that died thanks to them.

Regards

LiteBulb
NetWings IL2/PF Moderator
Visit us at WWW.NetWings.Org (http://WWW.NetWings.Org)

Also known as Biggles3:FI:

Obi_Kwiet
05-20-2004, 08:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are people, myself included, who feel that you're wrong. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Korolov
05-20-2004, 09:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_RoryOMoore:
There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you really have to bring that up here? Sighh... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

sugaki
05-20-2004, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As you say the amount of casualties for both sides would have been herendous had the US tried to invade.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Debatable. With resources depleted, Japan didn't have much left to fight with.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I feel is frankly disrespectful to the people that dropped the 2 A bombs and ofcorse the people that died thanks to them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frankly, Japanese people would find it even more disrespectful with this mentality that the US did Japan a favor by dropping the b-bombs.

If that's how PF_RoryOMoore feels, then that's how he feels. To say "no you is wrong" is pointless and is only asking for an endless barrage of debates.

The war against Japan was already won, it was a matter of when and how. At that point, everybody knew that Russia was the bigger threat for the security of the United States. He brings a valid point, no sense in blowing it off because it doesn't fit with your picture.

Menthol_moose
05-20-2004, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Debatable. With resources depleted, Japan didn't have much left to fight with.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong ..

Japan was preparing for a large scale invasion. Hundreds of boats and subs were being rigged up for suicide missions and the populace was being told to fight to last drop of blood. They were also told if america invaded they would be wholesale raped and murdered. Thats why many committed suicide on okinawa.

And if you dont believe that, look into how many soviet casualities were involved in the final battle for berlin. Thats just one city. Imagine a Island, it would have been a blood bath for both sides.

The bomb was fully justified.

a1413
05-21-2004, 12:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are people, myself included, who feel that you're wrong. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This topic has been debated for years now and there are many truths to both sides of the argument. Through studies it was indeed discovered that the amount of losses expected for the Allies (by invading mainland Japan) was grossly inflated. I personally believe that that there is an element of truth to both side of this argument. Years of hard fighting behind them, yet more struggles ahead that could be cut short by using the bomb. However, there was much power play going on between the US/UK with Russia. Neither side trusted on another, which is clearly shown by a report that was done by the US/UK forces towards the end of the conflict in Europe. This was; the ability to continue fighting in the European theatre against the Russians. The mere fact that the study was done suggests that Western powers had already turned their attention to Eastern Europe. Remember, Winston Churchill was not a communist liking person at all (he supported the white troops during the revolution after WWI).

Again, there are arguments to both sides of the story, I just happen to think that the dropping of the bomb on Japan to show the Soviets what they had is plausible.

Aztek_Eagle
05-21-2004, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by a1413:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people, myself included, who feel that the dropping of the A-Bombs was more as an example to the Moscow than to Tokyo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are people, myself included, who feel that you're wrong. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This topic has been debated for years now and there are many truths to both sides of the argument. Through studies it was indeed discovered that the amount of losses expected for the Allies (by invading mainland Japan) was grossly inflated. I personally believe that that there is an element of truth to both side of this argument. Years of hard fighting behind them, yet more struggles ahead that could be cut short by using the bomb. However, there was much power play going on between the US/UK with Russia. Neither side trusted on another, which is clearly shown by a report that was done by the US/UK forces towards the end of the conflict in Europe. This was; the ability to continue fighting in the European theatre against the Russians. The mere fact that the study was done suggests that Western powers had already turned their attention to Eastern Europe. Remember, Winston Churchill was not a communist liking person at all (he supported the white troops during the revolution after WWI).

Again, there are arguments to both sides of the story, I just happen to think that the dropping of the bomb on Japan to show the Soviets what they had is plausible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


better stop this political poop stupid speculations before this turn ugly, who wanted to keep fighting the russias was macarthur, he even wanted to use the nukes on china at the time of korea, that is why he was kicken out of the military, if they had fight the russians, russians would have won any ways...... at the end of the war russia pretty much over or at the same level of tecnologhy of the others allies, may be not vs the axis

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/AztekEaglesig.JPG

sugaki
05-21-2004, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[MacArthur] even wanted to use the nukes on china at the time of korea, that is why he was kicken out of the military<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sheesh, incorrect.

MacArthur was kicked out because he wanted to invade China--troop reinforcements kept coming in from the Chinese border to bolster the fledging NK forces driven back by the X Corp counter-attack on Sept 15, 1950 in addition to the push toward Yalu by the Eighth army.

Irregardless, a1413's point is not speculation, it's a valid factor that most historians would consider to be a valid point.