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View Full Version : Few suggestions about some units' tiers and relative power.



Rakt2010
07-09-2016, 12:22 AM
Hello, I'm one of that weird people who still planning to buy the expansion and I've heard that it will have some balanse changes to old factions in addition to adding the Fortress. I want to propose a couple of changes In case it's true and there is someone who still checks this forum. Also, sorry for my English, I'm not a native seaker.


1) Assassin. No, ASSASSIN. What's happened to him? In H5 and H6 he was the strongest among his tier. In the part of my country's community that still play this games the "amazing assassin" actually became one of Dungeon emblematic units (not nearly as much as the dragon of cource, but more than the minotaur) . Before the H7's release I was absolutely sure that he will be Dungeon's top core. Instead he is basic core. With lower health than his own ranged support (stalker), lower damage than Skeleton-Hoplyte (who are raised by dozens after every fight) and lower attack than Legioneer (who are defensive unit). Ow, and his defense is 1. One. He even lost stealth for some reason. If not backstab and poison he would be the worst unit in the game! Makes campaign kinda funny because the protagonist is proud heir of "Master of Assassins" (or something like that) and leader of secret organisation yet his soldiers feel like random guys who see their daggers first time in their life. And the top core is Troglodyte. Creature that always was at the lowest tier. Creature whose description says that they are used as workers and diggers.
I think they should be swapped. Troglodyte would be tanky basic core while Assasssin top core with mediocre health and amazing damage (about 6-9 or higher) but high cost and low weekly growth.
2) Guardian. It's just a human swordsman (err..swordswoman?). Why is it elite? It doesn't have size or magic power for being elite. It doesn't look elite. It doesn't feel elite. Blademaster is justified by being a martial artist with hundreds years of expirience. Guardian is just a human swords..um..person. I think it would be a good idea to swap them with Dire Wolf.
3) Faceless. Ancient creature with massive magic power. Why is he so bad? Worst support unit in the game. A humble priestess can ressurect lost units, a tent heal mashines and Namtaru have amazing '+1 damage per unit in stack (skeletons!) for 3 turns + dispel light debuffs' buff. What have a mighty ancient Faceless? Very weak and mostly useless buff which lasts for 1 turn or first enemy (counter)attack and usually not working in current version due to bug.
I think his spell should be changed. A few variants:
- Shadow Walk (like one that Ghost and Shadow Panther have) + No Retaliation. Ignoring terrain and counterattacks, even for one turn, would be a powerful buff that will also help with frequent bottleneck problem due to this incarnation of Dungeon having too many melle walkers.
- Invisibility for 2 turns. I find it weird that what presented as the stealth-faction doesn't actually have anything invisible.
- Poisonuos attack for 2-3 turns.
- Debuffing enemies instead (a lot of variants).
Also please bring back his "MWA-HA-HA-HA" from H6.
4)A lot of people find attack warfare unit (AWU) weak. With the skill they only useful on small maps and without skill they are simply useless. Yet devs refuse to buff them out of fear of people exploiting "rush to warfare GM" tactic.
There is actually a quite easy solution to that problem. Just two things:
- make luck work on AWU
- make BUFFS work on AWU
Voila! Not much difference at low levels while later you can make your ballista awesome by combining warfare skill with magic/destiny/warcries. And AWU won't be so useless for heroes without Warfare either.

I hope someone atleast read this. Majority of people already gave up on this game but some of us still stay. ̶G̶I̶V̶E̶ ̶U̶S̶ ̶O̶U̶R̶ ̶A̶S̶S̶A̶S̶S̶I̶N̶!̶

P.S. Why does Hunter has a sword yet hitting people with bow in melee?

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
07-11-2016, 10:07 AM
Hi Rakt2010, thank you for your suggestions.

JIBUS95
07-13-2016, 02:25 PM
1_Assassin : i agree to top core
I don't understand troglodyte position top core too...

2_Swordswomen : i agree to top core and change with wolf

For me the support units are almost all useless ... If the war machines generated potent power that are not affected by the number of enemy creatures, their importance is capital and might even make them a priority target. Example: If the ballista removes 10% of HP per attack and you referred a creature that has an amount of 10, it will lose one creature. As to the levels, increases the amount of creatures ... But it does not matter because the ballista retreated 10%. The same can be done with the tent care, régération, ... the power of war machines should be unscrewed for me in%.

JIBUS95
07-14-2016, 09:59 AM
_The Assassin top core : a stealth before the first attack and a critical on the first attack. Lowest life of top core; the best attack; the worst defense; good movement and a strong initiative; good luck but a moral base to 0. All this keeping old skills.

_For the troglodyte it can lose his resistance to earth, see the decline and adapted his features down.

_"Opportunity retaliation" will be given to the wolf and "cleave" is just for the justicar. Justicar and guardian lost in features.

Rakt2010
07-15-2016, 01:42 AM
1) Lowest HP&Defence - you want him to be squisher than Hunter? About 20 hp (second lowest)for upgrade will be allright IMO.
3)Opportunity retaliation should stay - devs said that Guardian was imagined as synergy unit foremost, not hard-hitter. Personally I think both abilities should stay.

JIBUS95
07-15-2016, 04:40 PM
IMO? Squisher? I don't understand your words. This is not my 1st language.

1) Assassins favors quick, the underhanded attacks through their stealth. They do not have armor and are very athletic and flexible. their only defense is the dodges and eventually the subterfuges.

3)If the guardian go to the top core, she must be reduced...If she keep all skills, she must got low caracteristics (attac, defens,...). the guardian is to me the most violent creature versus pnj.

Rakt2010
07-15-2016, 08:23 PM
IMO - In My Opinion. Squisher in this case means being less durable.
1) It still doesn't make sense for them to have less hp than archers. Assassins had best damage of their tier in preivous games without being insantly-dying-from-everything unit. I've never seen anyone all them overpowered.
Hunter have 17 hp. Crusher have 25 hp. Spider have 28. Golem have over 30. Do you really think that 20 for assassin is too much?

3) Pretty much. Low-to-mediocre stats + good abilities. Seems good to me.

JIBUS95
07-16-2016, 05:16 AM
1) I think 20-22 hp is good for the assassin; a defense to 4; a stealth, critical first strike skill that makes it valuable in strategy therm; a strong attack and strong damage ... An ASSASSIN! Not a cute little soldier...The top of guild thief. Besides, I would love to see the thief mercenary with a more strategic role. The thief could brought other kinds of stories. Stories for adults is not seen in the main campaign;)!

3)yes, just low stats and preserve strategy skills.