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mike_espo
02-25-2004, 09:07 PM
Flew it for the first time online in FB. Usually fly the bf-109s. Anyway, I just took off and was chasing a yak 1b he was about 600m ahead at about 400m alt. Was not gaining on him even with radiator closed. He then turns very tightly and I can't get him with a deflection shot. Gets on my 6 as I could'nt evade and hits me and causes me to stall and crash. I know this is an old issue, but my god, this plane su#$s! It must be faster than this.

mike_espo
02-25-2004, 09:07 PM
Flew it for the first time online in FB. Usually fly the bf-109s. Anyway, I just took off and was chasing a yak 1b he was about 600m ahead at about 400m alt. Was not gaining on him even with radiator closed. He then turns very tightly and I can't get him with a deflection shot. Gets on my 6 as I could'nt evade and hits me and causes me to stall and crash. I know this is an old issue, but my god, this plane su#$s! It must be faster than this.

BS87
02-25-2004, 09:15 PM
Use manual prop pitch and never, ever turn in the 190. Unless you are extremly skilled with them, turning usually = death in the 190

Gwalker70
02-25-2004, 09:16 PM
what prop pitch % you use becuase I have done test with teh 190's and going to manual only helps in acceleration a tiny bit thats about all

BS87
02-25-2004, 09:18 PM
Always use 100% unles in a very fast dive with the D9

JG26Red
02-25-2004, 09:19 PM
i normally after i take off and get the alt i want and ready to engage go to %100 prop pitch... i really gives ya some more speed, i would stay maybe 20kph.. and seems to accelerate faster too doing that.. but thats just me..

mike_espo
02-25-2004, 09:20 PM
I was in a A4. I was using auto pitch. I thought the 190 accelerated great at low level. I know it can't turn, but the early fw 190s were superior to spitfire Vs. I think FM is off. But as I said, its an old issue.....

BS87
02-25-2004, 09:22 PM
I would not say they excellerate good at sea level.. they are good but not the best. A4 is bassically a tuned down A5 in FB. Plus, Auto pitch in the A4 keeps the RPMs around 25 on the gauge, where at 100% bumps it up higher for a slight boost in preformance.

mike_espo
02-25-2004, 09:26 PM
thanks. Ill give it a shot.

VW-IceFire
02-25-2004, 09:35 PM
I've read that the A-4's sent to the eastern front were generally not rated as highly as those sent to the western front (such was the respect that the Spitfire had). The higher ups in the Nazi government likely figured that the Soviets had inferior equipment (in some cases yes, in many cases it was underestimated) and that the lesser rated FW190's would be just fine.

Two things you could have done in that situation. If you are flat and level with a Yak ...you have to know that he's going to out turn you. So when he goes into that manuver keep your speed and do a partial roll and pull back. I find with the FW190 that a good way to limit the turners offensive possibilities is to either go up and over and back on their tail or at the very least go up and over gaining some alt and then regaining your speed on the way out. Either way he has to turn more and loose more speed.

At low level, the A-4 and the equivalent Yak's are fairly evenly matched. The prop pitch thing helps and if you had even a slight alt advantage the FW190 has the short term speed ability that the Yak does not posses (plus the ability to manuver at high speed - the Yak needs to slow down to really gain full manuverability).

I think that in general history teaches us that the FW190 is fast at low level (compair to the Spit V and it is)...which is partially true but its not the only game in town. Most of the time this statement is made without considering the Soviet aircraft (or even Japanese and Italian).

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Maj_Death
02-25-2004, 09:43 PM
I wouldn't use 100% pitch, the engine overheats quickly if you do. 80% pitch provides an improvement over auto but does not result in excessive heat. BTW, the Yak-1B has the same top speed as the Fw-190A4, if you turn at all then he will catch up with you. I suggest flying at an altitude advantage, making only one pass and never turning in combat. If bullets fly by your cockpit, let them fly by. Turning only makes things a whole lot worse.

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ElfunkoI
02-25-2004, 09:53 PM
Yak1B is fast. Really fast. Fw-190 is slow.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fillmore
02-26-2004, 12:16 AM
Yak1b is way way way better than SpitVb. FW190A4 is only way way better.

Hunde_3.JG51
02-26-2004, 12:35 AM
The A-4 just seems sort of underpowered and sluggish, can't really put my finger on it but it just seems weak. It doesn't do well at medium altitudes either, which seems wrong to me.

I've said it before but from what I have read Yak-1B didn't see combat service until the beginning of 1943. About the time the A-5 was entering service so I think those two are more historically accurate opponents.

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Korolov
02-26-2004, 12:42 AM
A-4 turns better than any of the other Antons. Thats abou it.

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Skalgrim
02-26-2004, 04:16 AM
one proplem is,

a4 must use wep 1,42ata for 545km/h sealevel,
therefore overheat she very fast, but real need she only 1,32 ata 100%.


1,32 ata could she 30min use,

that means, she can 545km/h sealevel fly without overheat problem like now, big difference

with wep 1,42 ata, would she get same performance like a5,

but only 1min, 190 had more propleme with overheat 42 as 43


but nevertheless,

you can that effective use for better zoomclimb, accelerate and dive accelerate, there need you not long wep time

give a4 545km/h sealevel speed,
without overheat problem and 1min 1,42 ata for same accelerate, zoomclimb and dive accelerate like a5,

and much more, would like to fly a4 in 42 server

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Thu February 26 2004 at 04:57 AM.]

Fehler
02-26-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I've read that the A-4's sent to the eastern front were generally not rated as highly as those sent to the western front (such was the respect that the Spitfire had). The higher ups in the Nazi government likely figured that the Soviets had inferior equipment (in some cases yes, in many cases it was underestimated) and that the lesser rated FW190's would be just fine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa, where did you ever read this?

The A-4 had a top manifold pressure that was de-rated because of overheating problems. It had nothing to do with the Spitfire, although that is a colorful hypothesis. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In any event, the A-5 was an A-4 with some minor upgrades, a better manifold pressure rating (Overheating problems worked out), and a new armored engine mounting ring. This ring, gave the A-5 approximately six inches more overall length than the A-4. The A-4 was also retrofitted in the field with the necessary modifications to make them into A-5's.

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NorrisMcWhirter
02-26-2004, 06:16 AM
"Originally posted by mike_espo:
Flew it for the first time online in FB. Usually fly the bf-109s. Anyway, I just took off and was chasing a yak..."

190 is not really suited to low level chasing of vvs a/c...best to climb to alt and keep bnz'ing them. It's less "skillful" (apparently) but it works a treat.

Cheers,
Norris


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Fehler
02-26-2004, 06:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>best to climb to alt and keep bnz'ing them. It's less "skillful" (apparently) but it works a treat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Less skillful?

OK, lets get this straight once and for all.

1. In full switch servers, boom and zoom is very difficult because most of the time deflection shooting happens without actually seeing the plane you are shooting at.

2. 99.9% of ALL online VVS pilots perform this maneuver when attacked by a Luftwaffe plane. Step one, pull back on stick and hold until the LW plane leaves or is in your sights. -OR- If this fails, drop combat flaps and repeat step one.

Now, compared to B&Z yank fighting is utterly skill-less. No patience needed, no strategy or tactics.

Now, the .01% that will energy fight, I respect. But the yank and crank, spray and pray guys really need to learn to fly.

(Which, by the way, is why I hope Oleg will eventually put fatigue modeling into an aircraft sim... Then the yank and crankers will have to figure out how to do something else after their third circle.. They may even actually have to learn to fight.. Oh my!)

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ElfunkoI
02-26-2004, 07:11 AM
Ya, I'd say a good 75% of shots made online are without target in view. The other 25% or when it is a successful bounce and you just nail em.

What is funny is how some aircraft can do a full 360* turn then start chasing a 190A4 yet still catch up to it. What else is funny is high altitude performance of 190A4 compared to P39 and P40. 5km is where those birds really shine.

mike_espo
02-26-2004, 07:27 AM
BZ is incredibly difficult in Full real. First, you cannon ID a target until its too late without icons. Second, for the reasons mentioned, you are deflecion shooting without seeing your opponent. I think its the hardest way to get kills. VVS have it easy, just maneuver and shoot with Shvak lasers. Its the job of the LW fliers to not fall for this trap and pic and choose when and where to engage.

Blutarski2004
02-26-2004, 09:42 AM
I wonder if the "poor" performance of the FW190 observed on the Eastern Front might not have had something to do with problems in the supply of high octane fuel. IIRC, the 190 required 91 octane, while most 109's used 87 octane. Since there were many many more 109s in the field than 190's, and since 91 octane was in limited supply, perhaps a lot of 190's were actually flying with 87 octane in the tank. This would have reduced their permissible manifold pressure limits and caused performance to suffer accordingly.

It's a theory anyway.

BLUTARSKI

faustnik
02-26-2004, 09:47 AM
It's not that hard, you get used to it. Padlock really helps if you can get away from FR a little.

The 190 view becomes a non-issue after a while, you just get used to it. Small movements, view changes are all requires to keep SA. You have to guess at the deflection shots, but, you get better at that over time too. Deflection shots with the 190 are deadly however. If you hit it, it dies.

Nothings more rewarding than a good 190 deflection kill! You pull the nose through the target, guess the lead, and fire a burst. As you pull up and away, you drop the wing to get a view of your target and see a fireball heading toward the ground below. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Fehler
02-26-2004, 09:50 AM
"Poor" is a strong word to use.. It's performance was, however, not as good as in the west, but there are a lot of factors to be considered as well. As Blutarski said, fuel for one. Also, you have to look at the playing field. 3-5KM below the alt the bird was designed to perform surely hurt the aircraft's performance.

Then there was always that poor visibility pilots complained about... Oh, that's right.. they never complained about it.. silly me.. Hmm, I wonder why they never complained... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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NorrisMcWhirter
02-26-2004, 09:51 AM
"Less skillful?

OK, lets get this straight once and for all. "

Hi,

I think you missed my sarcasm in my post - I should have put a wink in there to signify it a little more. My sarcasm, of course, was directly related to the "bnz an excuse for lack of skill" cobblers thread that we saw the other day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FYI: I fly BnZ, these days.

Cheers,
Norris


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Fehler
02-26-2004, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:

Nothings more rewarding than a good 190 deflection kill! You pull the nose through the target, guess the lead, and fire a burst. As you pull up and away, you drop the wing to get a view of your target and see a fireball heading toward the ground below. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen BBB! Yesterday I shot one of my most impressive deflection shots of my life! I was vertical fighting a Yak. I started with more "E" than him, but made the mistake of going vertical 3 times with him. Now he was turning inside of my verticals. I counted the seconds he would wait to climb, and on the 4th set I went level half way into it. I counted, and fired. No part of his plane was within view for at least a full second. He must have been at the position my feet were at (Looking down) when he zoomed into a shower of 20mm's, ripping him in two. I got the kill message and didnt roll fast enough to see him explode! I nearly pee'd myself!

If I would have missed, he would have zoomed above me, then Yo-Yo'ed onto my six. I would have been a dead duck. I calculated and went for broke, and it was his wings that did the breaking.. It was very good fun!

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Fehler
02-26-2004, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
I think you missed my sarcasm in my post <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am truly sorry. After reading "Some" of that exact post you mentioned, I guess my nerves were still a little bare. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

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Franzen
02-26-2004, 10:19 AM
Wow!, You know, now that you mentioned it my best deflection shots were made with the A5. I've amputated wings from 600-700m. It's orgasmic, almost. But I've switched to the 109 cause I want to dogfight. Now that I've read this thread and my memory's been refreshed I'm gonna go fire-up the A5 and split some Russian wood. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

flyingskid2
02-26-2004, 10:20 AM
B&Z is respectable only on cockpit only servers. On cockpit-off servers, B&Z is much much easier.

NorrisMcWhirter
02-26-2004, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
I think you missed my sarcasm in my post <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am truly sorry. After reading "Some" of that exact post you mentioned, I guess my nerves were still a little bare. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


Hi,

No need to be sorry - I only replied to emphasise that I believe BnZ to be a valid, and skillful tactic. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers
Norris


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Franzen
02-26-2004, 10:42 AM
Group hug! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Fritz http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Lunix
02-26-2004, 10:48 AM
There are few things in this game that give me the same satisfaction as those kills in which I bury the bandit count to 3 and squeeze. Even better than a mk108 count to 3 kill is a one shot P39 cannon "c2-3s" kill! Then I fly aways as if nothing happend with my arm out the window and shades on my head* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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ZG77_Nagual
02-26-2004, 10:50 AM
You need to absolutely keep speed and alt in the 190s - the a4 is a wonder plane, and can do many interesting things once you get to know it - but it needs practice. I've found a useful online scenario is to take an a4 with 50% fuel up against four yak3s with 25% and set to ace. Compared to, say, the dora - you really need to watch speed and vertical extension even more - however the a4 is very agile so, once you've whittled it down to 1 or 2 opponents, or if you are just tactically in the clear - you can play around with turning with them - just keep it fast and make sure you can get what speed you lose back - fast the 190 outturns most planes. As a rule Fight in the vertical. Also shoot from as close as you can. Plan on trying to get a quick burst in during diving passes, then zoom back up. Later you can play around more.

CHDT
02-26-2004, 11:15 AM
"What is funny is how some aircraft can do a full 360* turn then start chasing a 190A4 yet still catch up to it. What else is funny is high altitude performance of 190A4 compared to P39 and P40. 5km is where those birds really shine."

That's the perfect truth.

Yesterday, I was in my A-4 boom and zooming an Hurricane with ease. Suddenly a P-40 came. I flew my 190 correctly, straight and keeping energy. The P-40 made a 180degree turn, under me. I was flying fast but a few seconds later, the first 12,7 shots hit my wings, with the usual and immediate speed lose. That's life http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,

johann63
02-26-2004, 11:40 AM
I agree with you, it may be an old subject but I think your concerns are legitimate.

Many guys can fly the 190 well, my hats off to them, but it just doesnt appear that the 190 performance is "right" compared to some other planes in FB.

Hey I am not a pilot and I never really flew a real 190 so what to I know. But I cant say many other folks really flew them either.

Someone said in here "dont ever turn a 190 in battle"

If thats true then there is surely something wrong with the FM on this bird

BlitzPig_johann

Hunde_3.JG51
02-26-2004, 11:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElfunkoI:
Ya, I'd say a good 75% of shots made online are without target in view. The other 25% or when it is a successful bounce and you just nail em.

What is funny is how some aircraft can do a full 360* turn then start chasing a 190A4 yet still catch up to it. What else is funny is high altitude performance of 190A4 compared to P39 and P40. 5km is where those birds really shine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Exactly, I've said this for a long time, take an A-4 up to 5,000 or so meters, then take a P-39, P-40, La-5, etc. up there and compare. The A-4 feels very weak at medium altitudes where it should be strong, it just seems wrong/off to me. Also, most planes come within a few km/h of their top speed but the A-4 falls 20 or so km/h short of its top speed at altitude.

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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Thu February 26 2004 at 11:04 AM.]