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View Full Version : Aircraft Carriers that are affected by waves.



JG27_Gundog
06-13-2004, 05:06 PM

JG27_Gundog
06-13-2004, 05:06 PM

Aztek_Eagle
06-13-2004, 05:48 PM
i am always surprise by this kind of question, you guys need to undertend that it is not just about luthier to say, lets have simulated waves in pacific fighters sim, and the waves will automactly apear in the simulator, no they have to spend alot of time working on small things, and sometimes there are more importand thing to work on than waves, there is something better ways to spend a determinated time, than u need to be very selective in what to work on...

JG27_Gundog
06-13-2004, 06:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztek_Eagle:
i am always surprise by this kind of question, you guys need to undertend that it is not just about luthier to say, lets have simulated waves in pacific fighters sim, and the waves will automactly apear in the simulator, no they have to spend alot of time working on small things, and sometimes there are more importand thing to work on than waves, there is something better ways to spend a determinated time, than u need to be very selective in what to work on...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just so we understand each other, I'm well aware that Luthier has nothing to do with the actual coding of the sim.. Thats all 1c. All I'm asking is if anyone besides me would get a kick out of a carrier deck rising and falling 30 feet while your trying to land. I personally would love the challange.

stansdds
06-13-2004, 07:35 PM
Yeah, it would be neat, just like navigating across hundereds of miles of empty ocean for hours on end. Interesting for the die hard simmer. I think most simmers would quickly tire of such things, especially after the 19th time you smack the fantail of the carrier. So these features would likely be turned off. Also, I expect coding some of these things would take a long time, so instead of getting this within 6 months it might be another year or so in development. In the meantime, the publisher is getting tired of investing time and money, so the project gets rushed and hits the shelves with lots of bugs which may or may not get patched later.

Pitching decks would be nice, but I'll take stable decks in a stable, finished sim.

JG27_Gundog
06-13-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stansdds:
Yeah, it would be neat, just like navigating across hundereds of miles of empty ocean for hours on end. Interesting for the die hard simmer. I think most simmers would quickly tire of such things, especially after the 19th time you smack the fantail of the carrier. So these features would likely be turned off. Also, I expect coding some of these things would take a long time, so instead of getting this within 6 months it might be another year or so in development. In the meantime, the publisher is getting tired of investing time and money, so the project gets rushed and hits the shelves with lots of bugs which may or may not get patched later.

Pitching decks would be nice, but I'll take stable decks in a stable, finished sim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course your right. But pitching decks give me a woodie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Fliger747
06-13-2004, 09:06 PM
The "boat" pitches in CFSII about 15 ft, plus a few degrees of roll. Apparently one can mess around in the config files and increase this if desired. However it does have to be built into the "engine". Whitness the various attempts to have realistic flyable carriers by folks in the CFS III comunity.

Lets just hope for the best!

heywooood
06-13-2004, 09:31 PM
If it could be an option - It 'woooood' be cool.

I 'wooooodn't' want to be subjected to it all the time - maybe randomly in campaign mode. But it 'wooood' have to be a difficulty setting or else it 'wooood' alienate many a simmer.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

BeoWolf_361st
06-13-2004, 09:37 PM
Aircraft carriers are really not affected by waves that much. Slow rolling deep sweels are the worst, trust me... after 20 years and 7 Western Pacific cruises and uncountable "short" dets.. I can attest to that.... and I have watched planes trying to land on a rolling and pitching wet deck more times than I can remember. I was glad it was them and not me...lol... but I would love to try it in PF..

BPLIzard
06-13-2004, 10:22 PM
I wonder what kind of system PF would require if everything in our wishlist could be implemented in the final release.

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/v147/BPLizard/Lizard/BlitzPig.jpg (http://www.blitzpigs.com)

Fliger747
06-13-2004, 10:33 PM
A good LSO could time the roll to have you arrive at the right place at the right time!

The worst roller I ever was on was an (unreconstructed) WWII vintage (veteran of Leyte) DE, bobbed like a cork in those swells! But at least no one ever had to land a plane on one!

BSS_Vidar
06-13-2004, 11:17 PM
The carrier does what is called a "Dutch Roll". This is when the aft end of the ship moves like a figure-8 lying on its side on the water.

It ain't pretty when rolling in on final. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

BSS_Vidar

Latico
06-14-2004, 01:05 AM
Are you willing to try to land (or take off) in HURRICANE FORCE winds that would be accompanying those waves that are causing a ship the size of a carrier to pitch 30 ft? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Come on now, let's get realistic. Before the weather got that bad flight ops seiced. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Somebody reach over their a smack that boy in the back of the head. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

JG27_Gundog
06-14-2004, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
Are you willing to try to land (or take off) in HURRICANE FORCE winds that would be accompanying those waves that are causing a ship the size of a carrier to pitch 30 ft? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Come on now, let's get realistic. Before the weather got that bad flight ops seiced. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Somebody reach over their a smack that boy in the back of the head. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted they would cancle planed flight ops, what if the weather got bad while you were on your way back to your ship, like this poor guy.

A Near Disaster

"One night landing on a carrier (CVE 89) in the North Atlantic, there were very heavy seas-maybe 30 or 40 foot seas. I came in to make a landing. I was about ten feet off the deck when the tailhook connected with the resting cable. At the same time, the ship rolled in a wave, rolling from port to starboard [dipping left to right]. The cable tensed and stretched, but when the ship rolled back starboard to port, the cable loosened and the hook disconnected. I spun, and my starboard wing collided with the control tower. If I hit the control tower head on I would've been dead. The engine would've been in my lap. As bad as it sounds, accidents of this type were not too uncommon. We lost a lot of planes that way. The North Atlantic seas are pretty rough in the winter. We had planes smash into the deck and into the hangars. A lot of people lost their lives that way. They say in the Navy, 'Sometimes you can earn a whole year's pay in twenty seconds.'

"They shipped me over to Chicago to Michael Resse Hospital. I had a crushed vertebra, and they wanted to pin my spine. I spent a couple of months in a body cast. At that point, I was no longer a naval air pilot. But they were very good to me; they sent me to Lakehurst, New Jersey where they have the blimp training program. There, as a Chief Officer at the time, I was in charge of administrative things. In order to keep my flight pay, which was 50% over and above my regular pay, all I had to do was fly four hours a month-which I did in a blimp. I was just a passenger. How did that affect my life? Wonderfully!"

Latico
06-14-2004, 10:46 AM
I agree that the weather could and did change before the pilots returned to their carriers. What many may not know is that every ship and air station was a weather data collection facility. And all this data was reproted to a central local for interpretation. Weather bulletens and forcast were sent back out for use by all commands. Weather played a big role during warfare and it was important for all commands to have some idea of what the weather was going to do at any given time so they could plan their tactics. Forcasting wasn't near as good as it is today, but it was more than just wetting your finger and holding in the air.

I'm afraid that the story you posted has a flaw. The CVE89 never served in the North Atlantic. It served soley in the PTO, for the most part as a training carrier.

CVE 89 (http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/carriers/cve89.txt)

And since the CVE's and CVL's were much smaller than the CV's, of course rough seas would effect them more. On the Haze Gray and Underway site their are some pics of CVE's with forward deck damage recieved during a cyclone (Pacific version of a hurricane).

I'm merely suggesting that in order to have true realism in a sim the wind factor would have to be implimented along with wave action or else it just wouldn't be.... well.........REALISTIC. I don't know if the PF engine can handle this or not.

toutin
06-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Reminds me of that poll http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=406106734&r=286101834

Definately yes for me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ruy Horta
06-14-2004, 11:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG27_Gundog:
Would you be willing to pay a little mor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 2 had some carrier motion back some years ago, why would someone be willing to pay more than the going rate for a new flight sim?

Lets put it differently, if PF is 99% old coding, I'd say they are already stretching it selling it as new product, let alone charge MORE.

I'm looking forward to PF, indeed VERY MUCH so, but I think we have to stay realistic here.

New objects and maps, although very nice to have, do not make a Pacific sim.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

Fliger747
06-14-2004, 11:06 AM
Waves, rolling, pitching etc are not always related to the wind at your location. The open ocean almost always has a swell running. This swell can be of good size, even when the water is otherwise quite calm. The swell can be generated by, say a big storm a thousand miles away, a Typhoon off of the Phillipines and you are off Guam. For seaplane operations it was the MAJOR problem in trying to land (an takeoff) at sea. For ditching as well, you usally try to land parallel to the swell, unless the wind is really strong. For a big, fast aicraft it is a real problem. WWII aircraft mostly were slow enough at touchdown (especially if out of gas) so as to be able to handle it better.

In aviation, some days are better than others, being "not up for it" isn't always an option!

BennyMoore
06-17-2004, 11:03 PM
Whether or not thirty foot seas are going to chase away the noobs, the fact does not change that carrier operations on a perfectly still carrier are not carrier operations. Moving forward does not make it any better.

Not having deck pitch will completely and totally kill immersion and realism. You pansies who don't want it can go play Janes' World War Two Fighters.

toutin
06-18-2004, 08:49 AM
* Implemented pitching and rolling carrier decks. This will depend on weather - in clear weather the decks will be virtually static, while in rough seas it'll roll quite violently and make carrier landings even more complicated.

Victory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

tigerroach
06-18-2004, 08:55 AM
Yep - looks like we got it. Along with folding wings and openable canopies. Wooot!

I wonder how many sets of landing gear I'm going to cream trying to get my carrier ops skills down.

FRAGAL
06-18-2004, 09:05 AM
thats why i'm using warbirds 3 to practice on it has got pitching carriers heck if u torpedo one it even lists to one side!! try landing on that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

JG27_Gundog
06-18-2004, 05:02 PM
Yes that's some great news http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

A message from Ilya

I know many of your are anxious to see more progress shots of Pacific Fighters. Here's a few shots showing of some of the exciting things we've gotten done in the past few weeks:

* Added a lot of new planes, including the B-29 Superfortress and the flyable A6M2-N Rufe (a floatplane version of the Zero);
* Implemented openable canopies. You will be able to toggle the canopy open/close at any time during flight;
* Implemented folding wings. AI aircraft further down the cue will start on carrier decks with their wings folded up, and will fold them down when their turn to take-off comes up;
* Implemented pitching and rolling carrier decks. This will depend on weather - in clear weather the decks will be virtually static, while in rough seas it'll roll quite violently and make carrier landings even more complicated