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View Full Version : The patch is really of high importance and why:



XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:42 PM
just to press the trigger in Fw190A-5...
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/yak1.jpg


i dunno how many hits: maybe enough to take down a B-17 bomber
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/yak2.jpg


Yeah, Yak pilot seems a bit annoyed and decides to RTB to repaint the camo
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/yak3.jpg

In reality, often 1x20mm projectile was enough to disintegrate whole Yak plane. Its weak construction and missing fuel tank and pilot protection caused the highest rate of combat mortality of VVS pilots. Do you understand some people hating yaks?


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"The picture repeats itself when operations, which began with great intent and local successes, degenerated into senseless, wild hammering at fixed front-line positions once they encounter initial heavy losses and unforeseen situations. This incomprehensible phenomenon appears again and again. But, even in extremis, the Russian is never logical; he falls back on his natural instinct, and the nature of the Russian is to use mass, steamroller tactics, and adherence to given objectives without regard to changing situations."

German 9th Army report after repulsing the Soviet offensive "Mars" in Rzhev bulge, December 1942.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:42 PM
just to press the trigger in Fw190A-5...
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/yak1.jpg


i dunno how many hits: maybe enough to take down a B-17 bomber
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/yak2.jpg


Yeah, Yak pilot seems a bit annoyed and decides to RTB to repaint the camo
http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/yak3.jpg

In reality, often 1x20mm projectile was enough to disintegrate whole Yak plane. Its weak construction and missing fuel tank and pilot protection caused the highest rate of combat mortality of VVS pilots. Do you understand some people hating yaks?


-------------

"The picture repeats itself when operations, which began with great intent and local successes, degenerated into senseless, wild hammering at fixed front-line positions once they encounter initial heavy losses and unforeseen situations. This incomprehensible phenomenon appears again and again. But, even in extremis, the Russian is never logical; he falls back on his natural instinct, and the nature of the Russian is to use mass, steamroller tactics, and adherence to given objectives without regard to changing situations."

German 9th Army report after repulsing the Soviet offensive "Mars" in Rzhev bulge, December 1942.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:51 PM
2 days ago I put 3x20mm shells into yak`s 9D cockpit from high six.Nothing happened.


Oh and another thing:I`M RUNNING OUT OF TIME AND I WANT TO TRY THE PATCH ON VVS ONLINE!

"degustibus non disputandum"

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<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

Message Edited on 07/06/0312:52PM by carguy_

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:59 PM
LOL.

Bump. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 01:16 PM
Sounds very familar! The patch is really needed soon http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 02:15 PM
You check your convergance? Those 7.9mm's in the nose put out a lot of rounds, and don't do much against anything, but the 20mm's tend to hit a bit less if you've got them focused at the wrong point.

As for the Yaks falling apart, do remember they had some serious quality control problems at the begining of the war. You wing would fall off too if it was only held on by temp fasteners when it left the factory.

Late war aircraft did not suffer from such vulnerability, even though construction changed relatively little. The Yak-9 and -9D were merely areodynamicly refined Yak-1's, with metal wing spars. Aside from minor differences they were identical to the Yak-1 (the wing spars weren't even rated for higher loads), yet you don't hear about the Yak-9's falling apart under combat, nor were the late war Yak-1B's prone to disintigration under fire.

This is one of the side effects of not simulating factory defects. The DB605D's don't melt down on regular flying, and the early BMW-801's don't have their oil coolers constantly breaking without abuse either, so you may not want to complain to much. Be careful what you wish for, lest you get it. I can just imagine how much the wurge whiners are going to scream when they actually get refraction, and discover they have lost most of their rearward visibility and are having strange visual effects when planes cross the support bars in the front hemisphere.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 05:32 PM
It's not impossible to put a few 20MM shells into a cockpit to no visible effect. I've read tales of Battle of Britain pilots having several 20MM shells hit their cockpits - it would make a hell of a mess, but they lived to tell the tale.
Of course we don't get to hear the tale of the many who did not live to tell the tale.

Re the pic: I flicked on arcade mode for the first time just the other day - I think it's a pretty damn useful gunnery training aid. Wish I'd tried it earlier.

Message Edited on 07/06/0305:37PM by mikeyg007

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 08:43 PM
The DM is seriously goofed right now IMHO, especially the Yaks, I-16s, Macchi-202, and FW-190s. The patch can't get here soon enough. Still, I am very concerned that the guns/cannons will become overpowered and kills will come to easy. I think there should be some tweaks, as some very important ones are needed badly. But I really don't want to see planes falling apart too easily, that would be catastrophic.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:37 PM
A day without the patch is like, A day without sunshine.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:02 AM
How's this, my last VOW mission was a finnish mission. In it I flew the Hurricane Ia on a Pe 2 intercept mission. I scored 627 hits on a single Pe-2 and all it caused was a fuel leak. Sure the .303's on the hurricane are weak, but come on, 627 hits on the same plane without effect.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 01:24 AM
Not likely, HarryV.

Quick look of the arrow directions show that a some cannon rounds have hit as well as the MG17s. The lethality of the cannon hits aren't as profoundly effected by convergence as the lethality of machine guns - they are practically flying grenades tossed.

Unless it's something like a one 20mm hit on the left wing and one hit in on other, multiple 20mms shell landing within certain vicinity of each other is enough to do away with a plane.

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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

michapma
07-07-2003, 09:59 AM
I'm not familiar with the arcade setting, but I suppose the cannon rounds have larger arrows. Even those large-caliber rounds need to hit vital areas in order to take a plane apart, otherwise they just make holes. I recall that the structures of the planes are highly detailed for the damage model.

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/screenshots/14mar/dm2_s.jpg
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/screenshots/14mar/dm3_s.jpg
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/screenshots/14mar/dm4_s.jpg

"Current collision/hit and internal damage model of the aircraft in Forgotten Battles"

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/damage_from_%20AA.jpg

"From Dalibor Jovanovic:
The plane got hits of the the AA explosion fragments near the plane (no direct hit of the shells, just fragments). You may clearly see that there was not any serious damage if you know the construction of the plane. Low settings of the graphics"

I am sorry, but from the shots of the damaged Yak I can't tell whether cannon rounds have landed on the right areas. I do know that Oleg has said that the damage model is being refined, and especially for lower-caliber projectiles (under 37mm I think).

Cheers,
Mike

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