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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:50 PM
Does anyone have an ATi card of the new 9xxx breed and if so have you experienced any difficulties?

I have the chance of a 9800Pro but don't want to sacrifice compatibility.

TIA Joey /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:50 PM
Does anyone have an ATi card of the new 9xxx breed and if so have you experienced any difficulties?

I have the chance of a 9800Pro but don't want to sacrifice compatibility.

TIA Joey /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:54 PM
I own a Radeon 9700 Pro build by Hercules and so far Ihave not had any serious issues.

And the perfect issues with ATI cards and IL2 FB was not the ATI cards but the game engine and they will be corrected with the first FB patch. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Other then that I enjoy my 9700 Pro very much.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>


Message Edited on 07/25/0308:55PM by Cappadocian_317

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:54 PM
I have a 9800 pro, and it works pretty good. Not perfect by any means. I'm switching to a 5900 Ultra, so I guess i'm not that happy with it.

You will get a slew of guys telling you it's great though. Stay tuned.

Da Buzz
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<center>
The Plane That Really Won The War

<center>
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:14 AM
My 9800 pro has yet to let me down. It makes FB look so fantastic!

---------------------------------------
Greetings from Monterey, California, USA!

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Mors Ianua Vitae (sed mori nolo!)

-Artes Latinae (L186 Anon)-

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:27 AM
9800 pro and no issues besides the perfect setting in FB (which now works for some reason)

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


OK I -->[]

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:36 AM
They're great. nVidia's only card which is better then the ATI is in the high-end range card, the 5900 Ultra. Also the lower 5900s are good too.

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
Epox 8K9AI
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:29 AM
I will be picking up a 9800 soon (non pro). I was going to get the 9700Pro but I heard that the 9800 is just as good and I can get one for @ $245.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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Message Edited on 07/25/0308:30PM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:48 AM
Hay Buz, I can offer your 9800 pro a good home! It would help me a lot in developing new aircraft. My GeForce 3 is a little long in the tooth. Hay, you give me your 9800 and I will model any aircraft you want!!! Thats a 3000$ value for trade of an unwanted video card http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

BuzzU wrote:
- I have a 9800 pro, and it works pretty good. Not
- perfect by any means. I'm switching to a 5900 Ultra,
- so I guess i'm not that happy with it.
-
- You will get a slew of guys telling you it's great
- though. Stay tuned.
-
-
- Da Buzz




I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

<center><form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick">
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:51 AM
Sorry Gib. I sold the whole system.

Da Buzz
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<center>
The Plane That Really Won The War

<center>
http://www.aviapress.com/engl/est/est72216_1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:55 AM
My 9700 sapphire pro is golden.

Much much better than any geforce 4 ti card and the drivers are finally pulling ahead of nvidia's dets for reliablility.

Rogo



<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/normal_P-47-1-uncompressed-Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:57 AM
Bah! No Bearcat for you!

Gib

I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

<center><form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="business" value="gibbage@lycos.com">
<input type="hidden" name="item_name" value="Gibbages IL2; FB PBY Catalina Fund">
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:01 AM
I'll take a P-63 instead../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
The Plane That Really Won The War

<center>
http://www.aviapress.com/engl/est/est72216_1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:05 AM
Fine. No P-63. Caugh up at least an ATI 9500 and I will consider it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

P.S. Im joking. I would never hold an aircraft for ransom. I want the P-63 just as much as you, but I cant find any cockpit photo's.

BuzzU wrote:
- I'll take a P-63 instead../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
-
- Da Buzz


I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

<center><form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="business" value="gibbage@lycos.com">
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:09 AM
Check that thread again. Someone posted one.

Da Buzz
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<center>
The Plane That Really Won The War

<center>
http://www.aviapress.com/engl/est/est72216_1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:10 AM
Test

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:21 AM
Wouldn't go that far about the drivers, during the last few catalyst releases the performance has been dropping (from 3.2 I believe), while the latest nVidia drivers have improved the FX series GREATLY, up to the point that the 5800ultra is on the level with 9700pro (if not faster, go check out latest benches). Still, great cards, and ATI has their 9700s for as low as $200.

Rogodin wrote:
...the drivers are finally pulling ahead of nvidia's dets
- for reliablility.



AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
Epox 8K9AI
PC2100 512MB DDR
GeForce 4 Ti4600 128MB
Game Theater XP w/ Sony MHC-BX6AV
<center> http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/post-2-1057134794.gif </CENTER> <center><FONT COLOR="RED"> Gibbage you rock Man!</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:33 AM
Quake897 wrote:
- Wouldn't go that far about the drivers, during the
- last few catalyst releases the performance has been
- dropping (from 3.2 I believe), while the latest
- nVidia drivers have improved the FX series GREATLY,
- up to the point that the 5800ultra is on the level
- with 9700pro (if not faster, go check out latest
- benches). Still, great cards, and ATI has their
- 9700s for as low as $200.
-
- Rogodin wrote:
- ...the drivers are finally pulling ahead of nvidia's
- dets
-- for reliablility.
-
-
-
-
- AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
- Epox 8K9AI
- PC2100 512MB DDR
- GeForce 4 Ti4600 128MB
- Game Theater XP w/ Sony MHC-BX6AV
- <center> <img
- src="http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/post-
- 2-1057134794.gif" alt=""> </CENTER> <center><FONT
- COLOR="RED"> Gibbage you rock Man!</center>
-

hmmm..9700 has been out for how long.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:51 AM
Most of the gains with the fx cards are because nvidia has implemeted an anti-detection code in the drivers so that when review sites run detection software to see if the drivers are detecting the game or the benchmark (UT2003-3dmark-serious sam2-aquamark) the reviews aren't able to find out if they are cheating or not because of the detection built into the newest drivers. I don't believe any of nvidia's latest increases in performance are legit.

ON the other hand ati has a large group of public driver testers that are running all the games they can and then providing feedback with the driver team-something nvidia has never done-and should do since I've had a few problems with dets in my nvidia history.

And all of my games AND 2d and 3d IQ is much better than the 3.2s.

I am not trying to slam your nvidia card since the 4600 is a great card, but I'm at a loss for the cloak and dagger (and conspicious cheating) that nvidia has been doing for the last 6 months (and PR FUD).

Sorry about the rant.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/normal_P-47-1-uncompressed-Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ShadowHawk__
07-26-2003, 03:01 AM
I like Anti-Aliasing, I like Anisotropic Filtering, I like my Radeon 9700 pro. It's the only way to go if you want to use AA and AF.

-Death From Above

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:24 AM
If you want to use AA in Half-Life...you aren't gonna want an Nvidia card. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Seriously, ATI's pretty much on the ball right now. I've had a 9700 Pro for a while now, and never had a problem with it. In fact, it's significantly better in terms of driver installs/process/feedback/etc than Nvidia is, IMHO.

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<center><font color=yellow>BlitzPigMachine<font>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:26 AM
Good cards ATI /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

Crap drivers though /i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:43 AM
When my ti4600 bit the dust I purchased a 9500 PRO. I haven't looked back.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 04:06 AM
i have r9700pro to match my digital 22inch flat screen, and i always running the game the same as my desktop resolution which is 1600x1200@32 w/100 refresh rate /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
and i think im going to marry my radeon 9700PRO which is I O/C it a litle and still rock titanium stable.

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:01 AM
i think the answer is clear.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/sapphire_atlantis_9800_pro_ultimate_review/page8.asp

atis 9800pro soundsly out performs Nvidias 5900ultra, at every resolution in il2.

Ati's Antialiasing is far batter then nvidias, and their ansio filtering takes less of a performace hit.

add in, nvidia being caught driver cheating over and over(lowering quality to increase frame rate),

And the fact that ati now has the best drivers in the business. And updates its Catalysts drivers no less then once a month. You really cant go wrong.

People complaing about atis drivers or support, i can only assume are nvidia fanboys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Ati's drivers havnt been a problem since catalyst was introduced.

as it stands now, ati is the way to go.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:10 AM
I seem to recall ATI fudging a games demo specs a couple years ago no?

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:12 AM
I heard ATI cards were good for home video editing.

Video games, however, are a different story.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:13 AM
" Crap drivers though "


logical fallacy-"converse accident" generalizing from either an individual occurence or a few instances to a universal conclusion.

That is hogwash these days.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/normal_P-47-1-uncompressed-Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:20 AM
http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1/corrupted.jpg


ATI

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:21 AM
ATI

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Noraboutayeb/blue.jpg


<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:23 AM
ATI

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Noraboutayeb/il2fb+2003-07-24+01-48-17-56.jpg


<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:23 AM
ATI....

and cherry

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/terrace2.jpg


<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>


Message Edited on 07/26/0306:26AM by Heuristic_ALgor

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:45 AM
Heuristic_ALgor wrote:
- http://www.btinternet.com/~p.webber1/corrupted.jpg
-
- ATI


HEY Heuristic, plz tell me you trying to run FB in perfect setting with your r7500 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:46 AM
RJB-And I heard that nvidia cards are only good for playing ut2003 time demos, splinter cell time demos, and 3dmark2003 with missing textures and bilinear af when af is maxed with clip planes inserted even (still barely holds its own with a radeon).


Heuristic

Your first shot is a hardware fault (oc'd or esd when you installed it, would recomend a rma).

Your second shot is with pre-cat 3.4 drivers and is NOT the fault of the drivers but ingame.

Just proved my "converse accident" argument-thanks for posting those.


Here are mine.

<img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/panorama-7.jpg>


<img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/panorama-8.jpg>

those are with the cat 3.4s

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/normal_P-47-1-uncompressed-Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:11 AM
Nice photo edit job Rogodin. Thats what ATI cards are good for Photo editing and Home video editing.


Nvidia, on the other hand, is the king of video games. If you play video games, and you want the best card for video games, then Nvidia is the only choice. They are in co-hoots with the people who make video games, and have the inside track and dominant market share.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:12 AM
Rogodin please dont tell me your using photo shopped screans to prove how good ATI is that bottom one looks to my not so untrained eye like its had one or two filters laid over it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ( and yes the look of the ati is much better than my ti4600)

Now how many people here can be objective about the card they recommend it would seem to me that we all say the one we use is the best.

My own experience with the ATI 9700pro is not very good at all infact I was unable to make it work without it crashing my system,But I'am happy to chalk that up as a mis-match with my personal settup.Plenty of people have nothing bad to say about Ati but I hear much less anti nvidia than anti Ati

I have a good friend that just swaped from the 9700pro to the 5900 ultra and he is very impressed with it's apperance and performance particualy at high res.

And to quote him when asked how it looked (picture wise)his words were SUPERIOR.This guy knows his hardware and it's fair to call him a tecno junkie,I trust what he says.


No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/smash.gif

Were's the Anykey

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:18 AM
Ok, i'm going to have to take Ray's side here. What am I saying?.

As some of you know. I just bought another Falcon system. I had them do a little experiment for me, because I don't trust the tests you read from magazines or some web site.

I asked Falcon to try both a 9800Pr0 and a 5900Ultra in my system.I sent them my FB CD, and said I wanted to run in 1600res and 4xfsaa. They make the same profit on both cards, so they had nothing to gain by lying on the results. They have a good rep by giving good customer service, and fast systems. I said leave the winner in the system.

They shipped it with the 5900 Ultra../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:27 AM
BuzzU wrote:

I asked Falcon to try both a 9800Pr0 and a
- 5900Ultra in my system.I sent them my FB CD, and
- said I wanted to run in 1600res and 4xfsaa. They
- make the same profit on both cards, so they had
- nothing to gain by lying on the results. They have a
- good rep by giving good customer service, and fast
- systems. I said leave the winner in the system.
-
-
- They shipped it with the 5900 Ultra

Exactly my point Buzz you are in the minority of people that can be honest with a response to a question like this.

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/smash.gif

Were's the Anykey

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:28 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- Ok, i'm going to have to take Ray's side here. What
- am I saying?.
-
- As some of you know. I just bought another Falcon
- system. I had them do a little experiment for me,
- because I don't trust the tests you read from
- magazines or some web site.
-
-
- I asked Falcon to try both a 9800Pr0 and a
- 5900Ultra in my system.I sent them my FB CD, and
- said I wanted to run in 1600res and 4xfsaa. They
- make the same profit on both cards, so they had
- nothing to gain by lying on the results. They have a
- good rep by giving good customer service, and fast
- systems. I said leave the winner in the system.
-
-
- They shipped it with the 5900 Ultra../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
-
- Da Buzz

and do you really believe they gonna do what you ask for which is to test FB??
me personally dont really think they gonna do it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
they offer you the 5900U coz its the most expensive video card on earth you can buy with money.



The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:35 AM
Dayak

Got all the answers huh?

btw..Why do you quote me? I know what I said.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:41 AM
LOL, i did not mean anything just want to point out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
and how to you unquote?

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:47 AM
Dayak

I wouldn't have bought another sytem from them, if I didn't trust them. First let me say the system had the same price with either card. So, your wrong that they would put the 5900 in because it cost more. What their after is giving me the best performance they can. They know i'll buy another one down the road. They also know I won't if I think they screwed me.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:49 AM
Give up Buzz he's a ATI fanboy,not that it's bad just that it limits your options

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CA-15%20Kangaroo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:55 AM
I have a 9800 Pro now. It's a good card. It just doesn't run some other games that I play very good. I also think ATI cards have a washed out look to the colors. Nvidia has more vibriant colors. Some will say it looks phony, but I like the brighter colors better.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:56 AM
hueheuhuehue, i thought the price would be different /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
that is only my common sense
since 5900U is more expensive

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:59 AM
I posted those for the water shots-to prove that water in perfect works fine on the radeons.

I trust my own perception rather than a vendors about which card I will run.

My two geforce 4 ti's (gainward 4200-msi 4400) didn't hold a candle to my 9700 non pro-roughly the same price back then.

And with all the BS with nvidia lately I wouldn't buy the 5900U even it was 20% faster across the board.

And for those of you who haven't used ati cards (RJB) just keep your trap shut.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/normal_P-47-1-uncompressed-Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:00 AM
When you buy a whole system. You get deals. It's not like buying just a vid card.

What the hell is hueheuhuehue?

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:04 AM
and how much is the whole system deal, if i may know?
is it included such as monitor etc..
did you say its falcon?

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:06 AM
"And for those of you who haven't used ati cards (RJB) just keep your trap shut."

help!

nON-ati USERS ARE BEING SURPRESSED http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif


<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:07 AM
Well the other thing is that the r360 (what the NV35 is meant to compete with) is about a month and a half away from go-time and the poor NV35 even with heavily hacked drivers and a refresh won't be able to compete with it.

Remeber the loki (and if the 9600 is any indication of the ability to OC then we are going to find it one hell of a tweakers card) is going to be a .13 process just like the nv35 (but already has a huge clockperclock advantage).

But if money isn't a concern then you might as well try both the 5900U and the 9800PRO-I would.

rogo





<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:07 AM
I know what your next post would be, if I tell you the price. I already heard it from Ray. I don't need to hear it again.

I'm going to bed.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:11 AM
I am fed up with people that haven't used a vendors card (regardless of wether it's Kyro, Nvidia, ATI, or Matrox) but use logical fallacies to support their universal claims that "ati is only good for video editing blah, blah, blah."

It's simply inane to post such drivel without any form of support, ie premises.

Even if you can post some links to forums where people have some problems with their cards it's MAYBE representative of %2 of the users.

I'm basically sick of RJB crapping all over threads.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:13 AM
good night

me too

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:20 AM
Ya well I'm sick of ATI driver complaints and a new drivers every week /i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif

They work in one game and don't in another

At least Nivdia has less game support problems

bonne soir

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

Message Edited on 07/26/0308:22AM by Heuristic_ALgor

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:43 AM
I can give you links to a site with lots of posts about driver issues and ati cards OR you could go to the tech support page on this site /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CA-15%20Kangaroo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:49 AM
naughty boy AL(go and close the main vents)
two of those shots are mine,and are in the extreme minority
<img src=http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Noraboutayeb/p47.jpg>



<img src=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-D9-29_small.jpg>
"yeah whatever"

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:55 AM
NOTE:loss in quality due to reducing image and upload process ,other than that.. no touchups /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
<img src=http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Noraboutayeb/p39.jpg>



<img src=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-D9-29_small.jpg>
"yeah whatever"

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:58 AM
<img src=http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Noraboutayeb/stuka.jpg>



<img src=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-D9-29_small.jpg>
"yeah whatever"

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:59 AM
I use a Sapphire 9700 Pro and it has been absolutely faultless - never given me a single problem. The Cat drivers are very easy to install and give the user very complete control over the card's operation. The image quality in FB is first rate.

Regards,

RocketDog.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:03 AM
I like how ATI fanbois say "It's the video game makers fault" when a game mentions a fix for ATI cards in their patch.

(which is like almost every game I have ever played)

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:32 PM
Then you don't play many games Ray.

But it's no news here, your just trying to look like someone who has a clue but it's very obvious you don't.

I have owned many graphics card over the years and never had any serious problems with it, being a S3, Diamond Stealth, Voodoo, Matrox, TNT, Geforce or Radeon.

All you keep repeating is Nvidia is for games and ATI is for video editting but this is not the case.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:37 PM
Rogodin wrote:
- RJB-And I heard that nvidia cards are only good for
- playing ut2003 time demos, splinter cell time demos,
- and 3dmark2003 with missing textures and bilinear af
- when af is maxed with clip planes inserted even
- (still barely holds its own with a radeon).
-
-
- Heuristic
-
- Your first shot is a hardware fault (oc'd or esd
- when you installed it, would recomend a rma).
-
- Your second shot is with pre-cat 3.4 drivers and is
- NOT the fault of the drivers but ingame.
-
- Just proved my "converse accident" argument-thanks
- for posting those.
-
-
- Here are mine.

Hey Rogodin, nice shots, would you please tell me what kind of frame rate you get with those perfect settings? And If you don't mind take a screenshot with a fps meter on it. Thanks. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products/list/48plane_img/61041.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 04:12 PM
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/r9600-2.html#p3

Heres a nice review of the 9600 Ultra Pro Elite masterblaster superduper model by Sapphire
I WANT ONE
Id take the Hurcules as well it O/C real nice !!!


I have a 9500 Pro Made by ATi
I have everything maxed out in the opengl properties
cept ansio is only 4x & im just under perfect settings in the Sim setup, geting great preformance average 40 fps or so

os=winxppro

Ram 1 gig samsung

xp2100TB (1.7ghz oc@ 2ghz)

The ATi Card is OC as well (300/626)

<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

Message Edited on 07/26/0309:14AM by Locust_161st

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 04:26 PM
Locust_161st wrote:
- Id take the Hurcules as well it O/C real nice !!!

LOL thats ridiculous. Buying a $500 card and overclocking it! LOL hope it don't fry buddy, or you are out $500 cause the warranty will be voided. Doncha think if the card was meant to go faster they would have made it so?

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 04:44 PM
lmao Ray

You dont know much about how they mass produce V-cards do you

They set up the ram & chip to have a relative Top end preformance then they dum it down so that comon users such as yourself cant hurt the card buy overheating it

Heat is the enemy of electronics If you Modify the Cooling aspect of the card & use real thermal paste such as Artic silver 3 not that goop that ATi or anyother mass produced card makers use you can easily achive the top end of the card with no damage Unless your an UBER Monkey & dont use your head

Ive been Overclocking pc components for over 5 years & havent fryed anything yet

Its a great hobby free preformance for a small amount of work what more can you ask for

BTW LOOK @ THE benchmark I posted you will see even they oc thoes cards /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Sapphire Atlantis RADEON 9600 256MB 325/400 -> 370/410 MHz (almost no thing)

Sapphire Atlantis RADEON 9600 PRO Ultimate Edition 128MB 400/600 -> 477/680 MHz

Gigabyte RADEON 9600 PRO 128MB 400/600 -> 485/700 MHz

Hercules 3D Prophet 9600 PRO 128MB 400/600 -> 485/700 MHz


Note that:
during the overclocking you should provide additional cooling, in particular, for the card and memory

Warning OCing is not for the average user that dosent know whats inside the shiney metal box.

<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

Message Edited on 07/26/0309:47AM by Locust_161st

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 05:02 PM
Hate to burst your bubble (because I am a bubble burster hater) but Dans Data did a review on the different types of thermal paste. He found that it is all just a rip off. Sorry but your "Artic Silver" is no better than the cheapest stuff you can buy. He even tried toothpaste.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 05:32 PM
I do it the other way around. I brush my teeth with Artic Silver.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
F4..The Best BF109

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/marse5.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:35 PM
OMG BUZZ!!
so you always have cold teeth!!

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:50 PM
We've been down this road with Ray before. He doesn't know jack about v-cards or the industry. He read some little nugget of information on-line about ATI and bases most of his knowledge on it. Heh...troll.

ANYWAY.

This conversation isn't so much kept going by ATI fanboys but by people insisting ATI isn't all that. It's just not true. It hasn't been true in market share or performance for a year now. Sorry. ATI has the fastest corner of the market. Has swallowed a significant amount of the "value" card segment, AND has taken a huge chunk out of the premium card market with the 9700 Pro (because the 4600 couldn't beat it and neither could the 5800...that's 2 generations!).

All you folks point to ATI drivers? I've seen nothing but steady improvement in them since the advent of CATALYST. Take a look at the Nvidia drivers before you go knocking on ATI...that's a real horror show. You never know if it's going to actually come out of your registry or if it's actually going to implement the features on you graphics card because Nvidia is worried about FPS rather than quality. Nvidia has NEVER (even back to the TNT days) beat ATI in terms of image quality.

Are the cards comparable? Sure. But Nvidia is playing catch-up...make no doubt. The R360 will be out in (paper release) in September...Nvidia has nothing slatted until their NV40 which MIGHT show up in March (unless they miss their cycle...AGAIN) at which time ATI will have the R400 (aka Loki) ready...my money is on ATI.

<html> <body><p align="center">http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig3.jpg
<font color=red>If.I.could..just.reach.my.utility.belt!</font> </body>
<center><font color=yellow>BlitzPigMachine<font>

ZG77_Nagual
07-26-2003, 07:25 PM
I've had ati cards since the original radeon rolled out. Currently I have a 9600 np, 8500 128 and 9700np - the 9700 overclocks way beyond the stock pro settins and has been a great performer at a great price. All the cards run FB with no probs. I've read nvidias most expensive card now beats ati's in many respects - but the rest of the market seems to belong to ati according to everything I've seen. Personally I've been real happy with them.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:29 PM
Lmao I dont care what Dan sayes.

I did the thermal tests myself & the Artic silver is 5 to 8c cooler also it lives longer I mean come on Ray think about it

Silver & coper & gold transfer heat much better than say aluminum so the thermal dynamics say ur full of caka or Dan is anyway

Im sure dan didnt use laped Coper heatsinks did he ?

Its a combination of heatsink past, copper Heatsink & the right Fan/Fans in the right configuration

I suppose my thermal gun is lying to me too !!!

How many PC's have you built Ray ? Just curiouse.

Buzz stop using Artic Silver for toothpaste man yer gona get cancer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

Message Edited on 07/26/0312:38PM by Locust_161st

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:43 PM
Locust_161st wrote:
- Lmao I dont care what Dan sayes.
-
- I did the thermal tests myself & the Artic silver is
- 5 to 8c cooler also it lives longer I mean come on
- Ray think about it
-
- Silver & coper & gold transfer heat much better than
- say aluminum so the thermal dynamics say ur full of
- caka or Dan is anyway
-
- Im sure dan didnt use laped Coper heatsinks did he ?
-
- Its a combination of heatsink past, copper Heatsink
- & the right Fan/Fans in the right configuration
-
- I suppose my thermal gun is lying to me too !!!
-
- How many PC's have you built Ray ? Just curiouse.



You are just a dreamer, according to Dan's data (a certified expert .. something you are not)

Check out the link http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

Toothpaste is better than "Arctic Silver".

"If you think any particular grease is going to cause your CPU to run more than a few degrees Celsius cooler than any other grease, though, then assuming the grease is properly applied, you're dreaming."

"Is fancy thermal goop as good as the manufacturers would like you to believe, and as various Junior Overclockers do believe? Nope."

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:00 PM
Hes a Certifyed Crack Smoker!!!

How many PC's have you built Ray ?

Thermal dynamics is a scientific fact theres no dreaming involved Ray.

Ray... How many tests on CPU cores have you done?

Dont belive everything you read Ray.

Everyones an Expert Ray

Even you (Certifyed NutCase /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

Ray how about you do this, Open your PC pop the CPU clean it with some rubbing alchohol & smear some toothpaste on it then pop it back in & fire it up

I bet within 30 minuts tops your cpu will be fryed





<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

Message Edited on 07/26/0301:01PM by Locust_161st

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:04 PM
Here is what Locust_161st wants us to believe
<img src=http://www.dansdata.com/images/goop/fibgraph2.gif>
Hey! What a big range of values!

Here's the honest version.
<img src=http://www.dansdata.com/images/goop/nofibgraph2.gif>
(stupidsmileyface.rbj)

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:08 PM
Arctic Silver 3:

Made with 99.9% pure micronized silver.
Arctic Silver 3 uses three unique shapes and sizes pure silver particles to maximize particle-to-particle contact area and thermal transfer.

Over 75% silver content by weight.
Arctic Silver 3 also contains a small percentage of specially engineered micronized boron nitride.

The thermally-enhanced boron nitride ceramic particles improve the compound's flow characteristics and long-term stability.

Controlled triple phase viscosity.
Arctic Silver 3 does not contain any silicone. The suspension fluid is a proprietary mixture of advanced polysynthetic oils that work together to provide three distinctive functional phases.

As it comes from the tube, Arctic Silver 3's consistency is engineered for easy application in a thin even layer. During the CPU's initial use, the compound thins out to enhance the filling of the microscopic valleys and ensure the best physical contact between the heatsink and the CPU core.

Then the compound thickens slightly over the next 50 to 200 hours of use to its final consistency designed for long-term stability.

This should not be confused with conventional phase change pads that are pre-attached to many heatsinks. Those pads melt each time they get hot then re-solidify when they cool. The viscosity changes that Arctic Silver 3 goes through are much more subtle and ultimately much more effective.

Absolute Stability.
Arctic Silver 3 will not separate, run, migrate, or bleed.

Thermal conductivity:>9.0 W/mK
(Hot Wire Method Per MIL-C-47113)

Thermal Resistance:<0.004?C-in²/Watt [0.001 inch layer)

Extended temperature limits: - 40?C to 180?C

3 to 12 degrees centigrade lower CPU full load core temperatures than standard thermal compounds or thermal pads. When measured with a calibrated thermal diode imbedded in the CPU core.



Negligible electrical conductivity.
Arctic Silver 3 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity. It is only electrically conductive in a thin layer under extreme compression.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 3 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. The compound is slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridged two close-proximity electrical paths.)

Arctic Silver 3 is sold in 3 gram and 6 gram tubes. The 3 gram tube contains enough compound to cover at least 20 to 30 small CPU cores, or 7 to 12 large CPU cores, or 3 to 6 heat plates.
At a layer 0.003" thick, the 3 gram tube will cover approximately 18 square inches.


Important Reminder:
Due to the unique shape and sizes of the silver particles in Arctic Silver 3, it will take a up to 200 hours to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) The CPU's temperature will drop as much as 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period.
This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer.



<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

fluke39
07-26-2003, 08:09 PM
sorry to butt in on an argument that isn't mine

but i feel dan could have represented his data a bit better

main suggestion being he uses the same scales for each graph would help make it a bit more fair representation

to make it fair though it does look like you just copied that off the packet locust /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>


Message Edited on 07/26/0308:13PM by fluke39

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:23 PM
Lmao there is no argument

I never said that Artic silver was a magic Elixer that will make your PC freeze over.

Its simply part of a Thermal solution when used in conjunction with the right parts gave ME 8c cooler tempatures on my Processor & my GPU I tested it Ray

ITS 8c COOLER IT HELPS PEOPLE WHO OVERCLOCK

8C IS ALOT RAY it can make the differance between a sucessfull oc or a crashing pc/fryed vid-card

If you dont overclock wtf do you care for its not like the chit is 50 dollars a tube Its relativaly Inexpensive one tube can do 20 CPU's Lets see 20 divided by 8 dollars

Thats 40 Cents per PC WHAT A RIP OFF !!! LMAO

Ill Spend 40cents for 8c cooler temp.


THE END !!!

Save your 40 cents ray you dont need AS3 anyway do you ?
Im not an AS3 salsman I dont care if you use it or not
Was just passing on some solid friendly advice

Ray Do you have 40 cents I can borrow That last tube of AS3 I bought Put me in da poor house http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

Message Edited on 07/26/0301:31PM by Locust_161st

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:38 PM
GF4ti4800 and no problems here.


http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:39 PM
My buddy has 9700 and his FB freezes now and then, usually during the fun part of the game. Other than that, quality is better than GF4 which I have.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:58 PM
The best of the best. You can´t find any better performing videocard than 9800 PRO nowadays.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:02 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I have a 9800 pro, and it works pretty good. Not
- perfect by any means. I'm switching to a 5900 Ultra,
- so I guess i'm not that happy with it.
-
- You will get a slew of guys telling you it's great
- though. Stay tuned.
-
-
- Da Buzz

You can´t be serious?? Are you able to ge a 5900 Ultra for half the price or why would you do that kind of a deal??

I would rethink that if I where you. You will probably loose in performance with that switch.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:23 PM
Well the Cat 3.3 maked a big increase of speed with aa and anisotropic involved since they found out that the older radeons with smoothvision 2.0 could make use of the smoothvision 2.1 drivers so they are still getting better and better.

Yes the 5800 Ultra is on par with the 9700 PRO. Just run at half precision and don´t use aa and anisotropic and it´s actually faster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Wonder how many here knows that the driver team that maked the detonator drivers for Nvidia now is making the Catalyst drivers for ATI http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif So everyone who is crapping on ATI:s driver are crapping on nVidias detonator team.

Anyway I know Falcon make good systems but don´t be surprised if your 5900 Ultra performs less good than your "old" 9800 PRO. I can understand if you got a little disappointed with the performance if you got a 9700 PRO before since they aren´t that much faster the 9800 PRO and 5900 Ultra.


And this?

BuzzU wrote:
- I have a 9800 Pro now. It's a good card. It just
- doesn't run some other games that I play very good.
- I also think ATI cards have a washed out look to the
- colors. Nvidia has more vibriant colors. Some will
- say it looks phony, but I like the brighter colors
- better.
-
- Da Buzz

What the heck do you mean that nVidia got better colour and more vibrant colours than ATI cards??? nVidia doesn´t even have full support for 128-bit colours until the 5900 series and as I have showned earlier they are still cheating with the colours.

Are you sure you got an 9800 PRO in your system lol. (just kidding)


But for god sake get a 5900 Ultra if you are a nvidia fan and is comfortable with it. It´s a big step up from the 5800 Ultra in many areas but IMHO count touch the Radeons yet.

I have big hopes for the next generation nVidia cards though but nVidia needs to lower their prices to match their rank as 2nd best and continue try to improve on the areas the Radeons do so well. Then I maybe can get some use of my Edimensional stereo3D glasses again.

That is my big gripe for the ATI 9700 PRO. It´s absolutely build for stereo3D gaming with very little performance hit with aa and anisotropic and support for very high resolutions but yet no native stereo3D support http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

There is just recently the Edimensonal started to produce their own drivers but needless to say they aren´t even close to nvidias stereo3D drivers.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:28 PM
My buddy has 9700 and his FB freezes now and then,
- usually during the fun part of the game. Other than
- that, quality is better than GF4 which I have.
-

Tell your friend to see if clocking the video card lower helps it. That sounds like the GPU is overheating. Especially if it freezes for some seconds and then continue as normal.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:38 PM
oeqvist,

I guess I have to quote myself from this thread. Did you read this post?
I said:

Ok, i'm going to have to take Ray's side here. What am I saying?.

As some of you know. I just bought another Falcon system. I had them do a little experiment for me, because I don't trust the tests you read from magazines or some web site.

I asked Falcon to try both a 9800Pr0 and a 5900Ultra in my system.I sent them my FB CD, and said I wanted to run in 1600res and 4xfsaa. They make the same profit on both cards, so they had nothing to gain by lying on the results. They have a good rep by giving good customer service, and fast systems. I said leave the winner in the system.

They shipped it with the 5900 Ultra..


As for colors. I know what I see with my own eyes. The minute I started up the ATI card it looked washed out. It's like the contrast is turned way down, but in fact it's at 100%. You can give me all the specs/charts you want. I know what I see, and I don't like it. I like the colors to jump out at me. Some people say it's cartoonish. Maybe, but I like it anyway. I asked Falcon about it, and they said that's the way ATI cards are. Some like it, some don't. I don't.


Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:19 PM
The ati cards are excellent. The only problem is that nviadia hods the 80% of the marked and developers aim too much at nvidia's card.

But the (5200-5800) Fx series are not excellent cards IMHO, they have problems with heating, excessive sound,and in some models are double sized. Their performance (5800 ultra) was not enough to compete with the 9700 pro,. a card that was a year older, and also, they have serious problems with pixel shaders 2.0 and some other elements of Dx 9.

As the performance of the cards was poor, nvidia cheated in several drivers to be able to reach ati at 3dmark scores.
Ati was discoverede cheating too, but his cheating was less important that nvidia's cheating.

The newest 5900fx series are nice. And even a little more powerfull than 9800 pro's

If you ask me what card to buy I will say Ati 9800.
The core of the atis 9500,9700 and 9800 is very well designed ahd his architecture is great. Their performance is excellent and can compete and win in almost every aspec with their nvidia counterparts.

Ati developed dx 9 with microsoft, nvidia is tryning to addapt his HW to the new standard, but they are not doing it 100% right. Also they are cheaters /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:41 PM
Yes I read that post. But neither of us know which settings, if they at all tested the game which I doubt they would do. What I say that if you would test it out yourself I am quite confident you would fine that the 9800 PRO is the better performance when both speed and IQ is applied.

All I am saying you shouldn´t trust these companies to much. Don´t believe them to much if they state they actually tried their systems. My bet is that they do a general test for all their systems mainly using synthetic benchmarks and not specific tests for each video card.

About the colours what monitor do you use? My 9700 PRO absolutely kills my former ti-4600 in term of vivid colours on my 21" Trinitron monitor and even the 8500 was well known for being a lot better at colours than the Geforce 3/4:s. And what I have seen on the 5900 Ultra is that nVidia got better but not nearly as good as the Radeons.

I don´t even enable "digital vibrance" with my 9700 PRO which I always used with my ti-4600.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:44 PM
Just a driver enhancement

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:54 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I asked Falcon to try both a 9800Pr0 and a 5900Ultra
- in my system.I sent them my FB CD, and said I wanted
- to run in 1600res and 4xfsaa. They make the same
- profit on both cards, so they had nothing to gain by
- lying on the results. They have a good rep by giving
- good customer service, and fast systems. I said
- leave the winner in the system.
-
- They shipped it with the 5900 Ultra..

how many days did they test?
I don't think the 5900 is on every settings faster than the 9800

at all, for me the absolute speed/driver difference between the two is meaningless for new games. If you have old games that are optimized for nvidia, than try the nvidia.

I would buy the one that makes less noise, but I'm very happy with my 9700. I run high (not perfect) settings, so I can't say anything about "perfect" problems.

High looks good and I can fly missions with 32(1.0)/48(beta08) airplanes. I just flew a mission with 24 He111 against 24 HurriesMK1 and it was big fun.
So no general problem with ATI.



quiet_man

second foundation member of the EURO_Snoopy fan club!

I'm quiet_man, but if I post I post quiet much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:04 AM
They test, and burn in their systems for three days.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:22 AM
They test, and burn in their systems for three days.

Does that mean that they sit for 3 days in front of a monitor and check out the image quality under different settings on different monitors or do that just mean they run 3D Mark and other syntethic benchmarks while they go and take a coffee?

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:24 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- They test, and burn in their systems for three days.
-

I meant what settings they tried for the two cards.
I doubt they did a full scale test, did they?

I'm not up to date with the latest cards, but I read the "full" tests before buying my 9700 (early this year)

at this time the nvidia cards where slightly better at lower settings. The ati cards had better filters, image quality and performance of the ATI was slightly better on "higher" settings.

the ATI card was cheaper and made less noise than the "equal" nvidia card at this time, so I took ATI.


quiet_man

second foundation member of the EURO_Snoopy fan club!

I'm quiet_man, but if I post I post quiet much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:31 AM
You quoted me saying what settings I wanted them to test. I told them to use excellent settings in the game, and 1600 res 4xfsaa. The 5900 had higher fps at these settings. They both ran smooth, and looked good. The 5900 is as quiet as the 9800 now.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
07-27-2003, 12:56 AM
As I understand it the 5900 is the faster card for FB. It's worth noting nvidia gets performance out of these cards with a brute force approach - pushing memory and processor to higher speeds while ati has worked it in other ways.

If I was buying a top of the line card this minute - I'd go with the 5900 - but if I could - I'd wait for ati's answer and a price drop in the current generation. Ati has allready gone with a different cpu process and the 9600 non pro - for example - runs cool even overclocked without a fan at all. These cooler running cards will have higher overclock potential. Personally I'm rarely willing to pay more than $200 for any single component in the machines I build. My 9700 non - pro was an exception at $242 several months ago.

My feeling is the 5900's hold on the top spot will be short-lived - and soon blown away by next-generation offerings from both ati and nvidia. Non-of this matters however - right now for under $200 you can get a card that will absolutely rock in FB and won't make you cry two months from now when it's $250 cheaper. Not to say Buzzu's system doesn't sound fantastic.

Also worth noting is that Alienware has committed to the new nvidia cards on their high-end gaming rigs. They are a standard of sort for high-end gaming systems. (my experience doing business with alienware - through work - is that they are a bit shady and their support is substandard)

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:09 AM
A new review is up with alot of numbers and the 5900 is gettings stomped-espically with the anti-detection running on ut2003.

I don't see why anyone would buy a 5900.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:10 AM
here is the link

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/r9800pro-ue.html

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:25 AM
Rogodin wrote:
I don't see why anyone would buy a 5900.

Thats simple my Pc will not run with a ati card in it.

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CA-15%20Kangaroo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:43 AM
Pourshot

Then spend the extra money (that you will spend purchasing a 5900) and replace the incompatable part.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:46 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- Pourshot
-
- Then spend the extra money (that you will spend
- purchasing a 5900) and replace the incompatable
- part.
-
- rogo

Nah I dont think I want to replace a $400 MoBO

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CA-15%20Kangaroo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:26 AM
the 5900 is not the faster card for fb.

the 9800pro beats the 5900ultra out by 10fps at 1600x1200, on the blackdeath track.

9800pro 37.7fps
5900ultra 27.7fps

thats a huge margin considering the scores, it isnt hard to work out the percentage at which the 9800 trounces the 5900.

its also worth noting even the 9700pro beats the 5900ultra as it comes in with 35.6fps, still way above the 5900ultra.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/sapphire_atlantis_9800_pro_ultimate_review/page8.asp

now when aa is used, we have a problem, nvidas 4x anti-ailiasing is equal to atis 2x.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_fx_5900_ultra/page8.asp
(the last to pics on the page show the difference)

so when you are benchmarking 9800 4xaa vs 5900 4xaa, if the 5900 ultra wins it is because it is basically running 2xaa instead of 4x. But i thought you wanted 4x.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif to bad,

fanboys can "say" the 5900 is better then the 9800 all they want, but i am bringing you the actuall numbers proving otherwise. The 5900ultra is not faster at 1600x1200 4xaa, it is faster at 2xaa vs ati at 4x. go figure.

dont get my wrong the 5900ultra is a great card, and wins a lot of tests, but when it comes to FB the ati is a FAR better choices, it is considerably faster, with better image quality(aa). that isnt a debate, that is fact.

the vidcards i have owned
cirus logic 1mb
ati 3d-expression 4mb
3dfx Voodoo2 12mb
Nvidia Gf2mx 64mb.
Ati Radeon 9000 64mb(i actually when to the store to get a Gf3, but they were out)

now if i am a fanboy i am the worst one ever http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:43 AM
Actually it´s quite hard to compare speed these days since nVidia since the 5800 ULTRA have started optimizing their drivers for different games for speed and sacrificing image quality even more to keep up with ATI. Just look at just about all synthetic benchmarks and many bigger games like UT2K3 and others heavily used for benchmarking.

What about these magic 30 % increase in UT2K3 on a GFX 5600 for example.

Buying a nVidia card nowadays is like "buying a pig in a bag" (swedish expression for buying something and don´t knowing what you get) especially since nVidia got some of the best marketing team available and the many biased computer magazines especially, and internet websites out there.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:04 AM
My 9700 works like a gem. Wouldnt trade it for anything, unless its a better vid. card.

<img src=http://www.Super-Guppy.com/jg2899.jpg>
Executive Officer- I./JG28

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:15 AM
Mine is rocking like a karaoke band



-------
I'm just saying...


<Center><img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwC4BKYUc8NdMGbLmK6nXDVLh2PHDHXJaQ1bq!8G7LP4M88wB FsyxFjf4d*z6zBGsbDWqHu7YGhkgzyCM27ZtHoOdC*BEG5*v4s Dst1JT1g/sig.jpg> </Center>



Message Edited on 07/27/0308:58PM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:34 AM
Falcon and I are aware of this test. The 5900 came out ahead when it was at 4xfsaa, and the 9800 was at 2xfsaa.

I told you I don't trust these tests, and neither does Falcon. That's why they do all their own tests.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:00 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- A new review is up with alot of numbers and the 5900
- is gettings stomped-espically with the
- anti-detection running on ut2003.
-
- I don't see why anyone would buy a 5900.


Here are some snips from the conclusion of this review where Rogodin claims "5900 is getting stomped":
-------------------------------------------
He says the RADEON 9800 PRO might be the leader. (Does this sound like "stomped"?)

Problems with trilinear filtering using ATI cards.

ATI sink reached 70-75 degrees C after a 10-hour operation in 3D! (and that was even outside the case)
--------------------------------------------
Hope you don't plan on playing your video games for too long. And nowhere in the conclusion does the article say ATI is better.

Quit lying and making things up.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 07/26/0311:01PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:11 AM
Look at the numbers, not the conclusion.

You can deduce the valid conclusion from the benchmark scores.

Their trilinear "problem" is not even comparable to the nvidia route of forcing bilinear through the drivers even when 8x quality af is used.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:12 AM
I'd rather have 70c after 10 hours than a fried card after running 3d screensavers for 10 minutes.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:16 AM
Also, something the review didn't mention is that nvidia's algo for af ONLY applies 64 tap maximum on sloping surfaces inside the footprint while ati applies 128tap af on sloping surfaces. And remember that nvidia's af rotates the af footprint relative to the drivers algo of what POV is "the most efficacious".

Rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:19 AM
And don't forget that this card is PASSIVE.

If you want to have a little louder card buy yourself a card cooler or another verndors card.

The day the fx goes passive while retaining the same speed-I'll spell rjbs name correctly.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:23 AM
All they are saying is that if you want to use AF in game you need to force it by enabling it in the drivers-something a monkey could do.

And that for some reason the ut guys hid the af in the ini file.

big problem-pft

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:31 AM
Cripes! Give it up will you? If the 5900 doesn't work, i'll change to the next generation ATI card. We're not talking about buying a new car here.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg


Message Edited on 07/26/0308:33PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:32 AM
BuzzU

I'm not arguing with you.

I already said that if I had the money to burn I'd buy BOTH a 9800 and a 5900U just to see how they ran.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:33 AM
Buy a Saab.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:43 AM
I bought both the 5900 128mb and the 256mb cards...kept getting flashes of light/flicker with both cards....I sent both cards back...I went back to my 5800 ultra which gave me better fps...I'm about to switch to ATI

"Is the poop-deck really what i think it is?" -Homer Simpson

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:59 AM
woooohooooohoooooa! This is hilarious http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Problems with trilinear filtering using ATI cards http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You should exchange that for nVidia cards. In some nVidia "optimized" games the 5900 Ultra hardly even do trilinear filtering but instead mix bilinear and anisotropic. That is what you can call a trilinear problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And ATI reaching 70-75 C after 10 hours of 3D operation.

For the first I am passively cooling my 9700 PRO (Yes I know it´s not an 9800 PRO) using a zalman hp80A heatpipe and as I have said have run it stable overclocked for like 6 months. May admit that I seldom run 10 hours straight but during my Morrowind addiction period it did happen at times since that game is so damn addicting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And everyone here knows that Morrowind is a system hog.

Oh and I would like to see a passively cooled 5900 ULTRA http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Again get a clue RBJ


RayBanJockey wrote:
- Rogodin wrote:
-- A new review is up with alot of numbers and the 5900
-- is gettings stomped-espically with the
-- anti-detection running on ut2003.
--
-- I don't see why anyone would buy a 5900.
-
-
- Here are some snips from the conclusion of this
- review where Rogodin claims "5900 is getting
- stomped":
--------------------------------------------
- He says the RADEON 9800 PRO might be the leader.
- (Does this sound like "stomped"?)
-
- Problems with trilinear filtering using ATI cards.
-
- ATI sink reached 70-75 degrees C after a 10-hour
- operation in 3D! (and that was even outside the
- case)
---------------------------------------------
- Hope you don't plan on playing your video games for
- too long. And nowhere in the conclusion does the
- article say ATI is better.
-
- Quit lying and making things up.
-

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:06 AM
oeqvist

You lost your credibility when you didn't know how to turn off vsync. Quit while your behind.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:14 AM
I know how to turn of v-sync, what are you trying to get even for??? v-sync on/off has never been a problem for me so why should I bather check it every time I install a tweaker wether it´s enabled or not.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:19 AM
If your going to claim that having vsync off doesn't cause tearing. You could at least make sure you had it turned off. That's all i'm saying.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:26 AM
Sure I am sorry but I took my response from my experiences on my 10 years of computer gaming and that I when I do change my graphics option do turn v-sync of but that´s just about only after installing new drivers or reformatting my harddrive which can be long inbetween. If IL 2 FB is the exception I apologize http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:21 AM
Interesting tidbits from the review:

"After countless hours troubleshooting the 875P/RADEON combination with CATALYST 3.4 with no success, we finally decided to try an nForce2 setup. Voila, the RADEON scores jumped significantly!"

Looks like Nvidia bailed out the Radeon here.


Click this link: (or copy/paste and go to the page)
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/msi_geforce_fx5900-td128_review/images/il2q1600.gif

Looks like even the 5900 non-ultra "trounces" Radeons best offering at high quality settings in FB.

Pretty clear here. Nvidia is obviously the better choice for quality and compatability when it comes to games (home video editing may be a different story, however).


<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 07/27/0301:45AM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:43 AM
Nvidia lost a bunch of customers with their "cheating" on tests. BOTH cards are frigging awesome, so settle down.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:46 AM
Both cards cheat (it's documented), so you can quit your "I gotcha" fixation.

"Digit-Life got an interesting article up where they used Unwinder's new cheat detector to find and disable any cheats in drivers to see just how much NVIDIA and ATI benefits from them in 3DMark2001SE. Apparently both companies are in the act, and it's not pretty"

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 07/27/0301:49AM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:47 AM
I love mine. No problems at all and I am running a 9700 pro.

Like some of the others here I don't beleve Nvidia on there speed. There is some trickery going on I think with there code lock and no one can test what is up..

As the ATI cards and drivers , well they are great , and I don't see them just throwing them out one after another like Nvidia and hoping one sticks..

And Yes Nvidia makes good cards .

I always used Nvidia till I got the 9700 pro , and am I glad I did. Nvidia is going to have to come up with something really great before I change back and pay the money they are asking for their new hardware. .

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:53 AM
- "Digit-Life got an interesting article up where they
- used Unwinder's new cheat detector to find and
- disable any cheats in drivers to see just how much
- NVIDIA and ATI benefits from them in 3DMark2001SE.
- Apparently both companies are in the act, and it's
- not pretty"

yes both had application specific opomizations.

the difference was, when the disabled cheats ati's scores dropped ~2%, within testing tolerences.

when the disabled Nvidias cheat, thier scores droped 20%.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:21 AM
That's the test I was looking for. The one Ray just posted. That's the test that convinced me to have Falcon test the 5900 to see what they got.





Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg


Message Edited on 07/26/03 11:22PM by BuzzU

Message Edited on 07/26/0311:24PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:24 AM
run the 5900ultra at 6xaa to equal atis 4xaa, and see if it cant make up the 4fps difference.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:28 AM
Davinci.. wrote:
-- "Digit-Life got an interesting article up where they
-- used Unwinder's new cheat detector to find and
-- disable any cheats in drivers to see just how much
-- NVIDIA and ATI benefits from them in 3DMark2001SE.
-- Apparently both companies are in the act, and it's
-- not pretty"
-
- yes both had application specific opomizations.
-
- the difference was, when the disabled cheats ati's
- scores dropped ~2%, within testing tolerences.
-
- when the disabled Nvidias cheat, thier scores droped
- 20%.


I fail to see the correctness in your statment.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/antidetect/index.html

As you can see, both ATI and Nvidia cheat approximately the same.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 07/27/0302:51AM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:39 AM
RBJ how is your math. 2 % versus 20 %. I have read that article before and I do even think that nvidias scores went up with more than 20 %. And yes very visible too when running the benchmarks.

Anyway RBJ I will help you, nVidia cheats 10 times more than ATI and refuses to remove their optimizations which ATI done quickly. Also of note is that the image quality on the ATI cards with the optimizations enabled where hardly noticeable. Not defending ATI but since the QUACK issue they have been quite honest with their drivers especially compared to nVidia.


You maybe should read that article again RBJ and maybe then you see the correctness

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:54 AM
Click the link in my above post.

When the cheat detector enabled, Nvidia goes down by 10%

ATI goes down by 3%

When both aren't cheating their final scores are within 2%

This whole "cheat" argument is moot. They both cheat, and when they aren't cheating, they are nearly the same.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:56 AM
I've got a 9700 Pro and I must say I'm impressed, never had any problems and it runs FB very smoothly.

Looking forward to the next generation of graphic cards..

rgds

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:11 AM
yes rbj that is 3dmark 2001,
most optomize within testing tolerances.

HOWEVER

in 3dmark 2003, nvidias CHEATS
and i mean flat out cheats, by using clipping planes so that they dont have to render significant portions of the screen, and then on top of that detect 3dmark and lower ansio filtering quality, all to most scores.
nvidias cheats gave it a 20% boost. while atis optomizations are within testing tolerances.

Nvidia has also recently been caught cheating in ut2003. "Forcing" a lesser level of ansio filtering, to increase scores.

when ati was confronted with its 2% 3dmark optomizations, they said "fine we will remove it next driver update" and did.

when Nvidia was confronted with itts 20% 3dmark cheats, they said "uhh, i dont know what you are talking about".
"uhh, your just trying to make us look bad", etc..etc..

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:40 PM
Davinci.. wrote:
- yes rbj that is 3dmark 2001,
- most optomize within testing tolerances.

Yes everyone except nVidia.

And yes on most tests it went down with more than 20 % and thus much slower than 2 % then the Radeons when aa and anisotropic is in play. The thing is that the image quality wasn´t altered except maybe a little in the mother nature benchmark whereas everything looked like crap on the 5900 Ultra. But since everyone wants high scores very few seemed to notice that.

So buy a 5900 Ultra for sure but don´t thrust the benchmarks and make sure you don´t play the major titles since if you do you may not get the visuals you should expect from such a highend card...

Not filtering that is sub par even to the Geforce 3:s when nVidia feels like optimizing is in place

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:22 PM
oeqvist

I don't know what card your using, but if you don't have a 9800 and a 5900. Your just blowing smoke.

I'll let you know how they compare in a couple of days.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:07 PM
RBJ - the news is that Microsoft is selecting an ATI
card for the Xbox II. So much for just video editing.
For the record, I have an Nvidia graphics card, it's
just the bizzare name calling dismissals I find bizzare.
Maybe if you could put an ATI card on a slider you'd be
happer :-)

ZG77_Nagual
07-27-2003, 05:24 PM
My system

Abit IC7 Mainboard - 875p
P4 2.5 @2.8
Saphire radeon 9700 np 355/330 for il2
(Zalmon hp80a with 80mm silent fan)
2 gig dual channel ddr400
Audigy

I have had no issues with the radeon card on this board.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:29 PM
My 9800Pro has been rock solid. I use what ever card is best currently. Last was a GF4 4600ti. Read some reviews, like the ones a guru3d and tomshardware. I am always amazed at product loyalty, NVidia is not the king of the hill, but don't tell the NVidia camp. I see a very heated fight brewing when the next gen cards hit the street.

It also depends on what you want. Seems that NVidia may have a slight edge in pure FPS, but when you put a vacum cleaner engine on the heat sink you can push the chip harder. However ATi seems to have a very large edge in AA and ASF. This has to do with a new additional buffer on their cards.



Gunner Out

Also there is a Catalyst Beta team guy hanging out in the Tech forum here asking for issues now, haven't seen that from NVidia.

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

Message Edited on 07/27/0312:33PM by Gunner_USMC

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:33 PM
Guns,

The 5900 is as quiet as the 9800../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:34 PM
Quiet yes it still eats two slots. And has a huge heat-sink. I don't dislike the 5900, but from the reviews I have read it's a matter of FPS or image quality, I choose the latter.

Gunner Out

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:45 PM
The new 9800 Atlantis does the same thing. I'll know tomorrow if the image on the 5900 is to my liking. To be honest. I liked the way my olf GF4 looked over the 9800. I'm hoping for the same effect on the 5900.

Using an extra slot really has nno meaning. Does anybody have all the slots full? i never did, and now that the net cards on on the MB. There is always plenty of room.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:47 PM
I like the 9800 picture better, but it's a matter of taste and probably monitor choice too. Let me know how you like that 5900, would like to here some IL:2 opinions on it.

Gunner Out

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:45 PM
ATI lovers. Here's another game that ATI fails at.

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93221

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:59 PM
Actually thought you were being objective for once Buzz. I have read 4 reviews that say that Ati's drivers are more mature than NVidias now. Yes I am sure you will find issues on any web site you go to with both cards.

Gunner Out

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:02 PM
Just giving some examples of why i'm trying the 5900 this time../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:14 PM
Gunner_USMC wrote:
- I have read 4 reviews that say that Ati's
- drivers are more mature than NVidias now.

I don't know why you consider a driver chain that is constantly trying to fix problems it is having with games "mature". Mature drivers already have the problems fixed.

ATI just recently fixed a problem is was having in FB with displaying ground textures. Tons of games have problems with ATI drivers that are constantly getting fixed. Nvidia, on the other hand, due to it being the industry leader and in in co-hoots with game developers, barely, if ever, has such issues.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
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<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:22 PM
RayRayRay.....

Did you put some Toothpaste on your CPU yet? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
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I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:23 PM
I agree with RAY /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:57 PM
Well that the 5900 ULTRA takes out the pci 1 slot is really a non issue. That shouldn´t be used at all since on the majority of mainboards it shares the IRQ with the AGP port.

The first pci slot should really be usedis really there for slot coolers or big fancy coolers like the Zalman heatpipe or the 5900U cooler that actually is quiet enough. If not that put your usb connections there.

And Buzz no I don´t own a 9800 PRO I own a 9700 PRO but it´s essentially the same cards except that the 9800 PRO supports more odd resolutions, got some extra dx 9 features like the Geforce 5900 Ultra which very seldom if ever are going to be used and got an upgraded smoothwision.



Gunner_USMC wrote:
- Quiet yes it still eats two slots. And has a huge
- heat-sink. I don't dislike the 5900, but from the
- reviews I have read it's a matter of FPS or image
- quality, I choose the latter.
-

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 09:01 PM
Let´s just hope the same happens to ATI as for nVidia when developing their chip for the XBOX. That took so much time that they lost 2 hole generations of video cards that wheren´t able to compete with the R300:s.

But ATI is the bigger company so I hope they got the resources to both develop for pc and consoles at the same time.

AaronGT wrote:
- RBJ - the news is that Microsoft is selecting an ATI
-
-
- card for the Xbox II. So much for just video
- editing.
- For the record, I have an Nvidia graphics card,
- it's
- just the bizzare name calling dismissals I find
- bizzare.
- Maybe if you could put an ATI card on a slider you'd
- be
- happer :-)

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 09:11 PM
oeqvist wrote:
- Let´s just hope the same happens to ATI as for
- nVidia when developing their chip for the XBOX. That
- took so much time that they lost 2 whole generations
- of video cards that wheren´t able to compete with
- the R300:s.

That smacks of bad management from Nvidia, or a lot
of pressure from MS on the price.

Mind you, the ATI thing is only a rumour, and rumours
are legion. No doubt by next week all the specs will
be different for the Xbox II :-)

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 09:59 PM
Give me some hard numbers of a % of ati users who experience major incomaptibilities with games-You can't because even rage3d is a tiny number of users compared to the amount of cards shipped.

So what you have to rely on is the review sites, and the legit ones are saying ati drivers are as good or better than atis.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 10:23 PM
no problem at all here with ati.

All games I have tested worked correctly.

Tons af games making problems?... no, only a small percentage...

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 10:32 PM
asmatic wrote:
- no problem at all here with ati.
-
- All games I have tested worked correctly.
-
- Tons af games making problems?... no, only a small
- percentage...


Do you play Forgotten Battles? (WW2 flight sim)

Just wondering because ATI has had problems with displaying ground textures and also taking screen shots.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Hunter82
07-27-2003, 11:05 PM
Hi /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I use ATI cards now and was a Nvidiot for a long time.

You nice?

<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter82 wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Save me the trouble of asking and POST YOUR DX DIAG Thank You /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif [/i]</FONT>

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 11:38 PM
Don´t know if Microsoft got a better deal with ATI but I know they are angry at nVidia.

nVidia claims that they have fulfilled their deal of chipped XBOX chipsets while Microsoft wants nVidia to deliver more chipsets under the same contract. Guess that´s a big reason they went with ATI instead.

That smacks of bad management from Nvidia, or a lot
of pressure from MS on the price.

Mind you, the ATI thing is only a rumour, and rumours
are legion. No doubt by next week all the specs will
be different for the Xbox II :-)

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 11:41 PM
Hunter82 wrote:
- Hi /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- I use ATI cards now and was a Nvidiot for a long
- time.
-
- You nice?

You too?

When I got told that the 8500 was better than my Geforce 3 ti-500 I LMAO but time proved me wrong apparently. The 8500 did have some driver problem the first 5 months though so for a time it was quite a bit slower than the Geforce 3 ti-500 whereas nowadays it´s a fair bit faster.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 11:54 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Do you play Forgotten Battles? (WW2 flight sim)
-
- Just wondering because ATI has had problems with
- displaying ground textures and also taking screen
- shots.

Which have been fixed since CAT 3.4.

And the screenshot bug is being addressed...got FRAPS? 'nuff said...I like my captures in .jpg anyway.

Speak about what you know RBJ...not about what you don't.




<html> <body><p align="center">http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig3.jpg
<font color=red>If.I.could..just.reach.my.utility.belt!</font> </body>
<center><font color=yellow>BlitzPigMachine<font>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:08 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- asmatic wrote:
-- no problem at all here with ati.
--
-- All games I have tested worked correctly.
--
-- Tons af games making problems?... no, only a small
-- percentage...
-
-
- Do you play Forgotten Battles? (WW2 flight sim)
-
- Just wondering because ATI has had problems with
- displaying ground textures and also taking screen
- shots.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

Ray, have been playing it with my 9800 for awhile and have NO issues. The only thing I can't do in game is take screenies and Fraps fixes that until the next catalyst does.

One last time. Independant testing has proven that ATI holds the edge right now in drivers and AA, but if you want to be an Nvidiot about it fine, I could really care less. My point is numerous people slam the current line of ATI cards, most of them haven't owned them. I run whatever is the current best card. Right now, that's the 9800 if you want quality AA and AF but if raw FPS is your thing the 5900 holds a thin margin.

If you are looking for a card, do some research, don't just talk to guys on chat boards. Chances are they don't have a bench set up and are doing tests on all cards. Go to guru3d.com or tomshardware.com and get some straight gouge.





Gunner Out

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:18 AM
yes i played FB long ago when i was young /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

It works good now with cats 3.5. Textures looks good in perfect now and I can live without getting screenshots.

I also play other games. All of them works fine.

Of course there are games that had problems with Ati HW, but please, there is only a minority of games. Not a "TON" of games /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Why just Ati is guilty of all the bad code all arround?

Some problems are adressed in the drivers (ati's fault) Some other problems will be adressed in game patches (developers fault)

Detonator drivers had problems with some games too. Its the usual way drivers evolve.

Developers teams need to know that ati owners are growning, and need to code not only thinking on nvidia cards.

If nascar2003 runs slowly in the radeon is not ati's fault, as radeon cards are even in speed with nvidia cards. The problem is that developers only code whith nvidia architecture in mind, optimizing to only one family of cards... this needs to change


RayBanJockey wrote:

- Do you play Forgotten Battles? (WW2 flight sim)
-
- Just wondering because ATI has had problems with
- displaying ground textures and also taking screen
- shots.



http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:19 AM
That second set of shots had me salivating. Unorfunately can't get that on my machine. Alienware build me a 3.2G with 5900 Ultra 256, Clean machine, but started crashing and rebooting itself. Docs say 24/7 support, but I had to wait on the phone one evening for an hour before the recording said I have to call during the day. I'm kind of splooled up about that right now, but they'll sort it out I'm sure. Anyway, even when the system was running, I never got the "new" water effects, even in Perfect. Also, the "camera" relfection is still that five-point thingy, not the circles the post shows. I guess I'll be asking for some setup tips when the rig get's back on its feet.

Nice shots though.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:34 AM
My retort to RJB's "ati is only good for video editing" (ad naseum as well blahh) is that along the same myopic thinking is "nvidia's only good for hmmmmmm, I can't think of anything that ati isn't better at, how about watching synthetick benchmarks with clip planes inserted/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif "


Rogo



<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-28-2003, 01:22 AM
I bought a laptop from Alienware awhile ago - it took them three months to deliver - two months before they delivered they were advertizing the new generation of my laptop for the same price - but they sent me one they were selling for almost half the price a month later. Their tech support sucks. Their products are in no way superior to something you could throw together yourself for less money.

I do not think they have their act together.

RBJ's a bit black & white in his thinking. Which is odd considering he prefers his trim on a slider - I'd think all those little poorly defined increments would drive him nuts - that is if he had the imagination to go nuts - or anything to go nuts with.

Ati's approach is intelligent and measured - nvidia's is panicky and brute force. They'll catch up - but they are not there yet.


http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 01:49 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- My retort to RJB's "ati is only good for video
- editing" (ad naseum as well blahh) is that along the
- same myopic thinking is "nvidia's only good for
- hmmmmmm, I can't think of anything that ati isn't
- better at, how about watching synthetick benchmarks
- with clip planes inserted/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif "

Well stereo3D. They should change the slogan to

"nVidia - They way stereo3D games should be played"

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 02:00 AM
the dagger /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:45 AM
ZG77_Nagual wrote:
- Ati's approach is intelligent and measured -
- nvidia's is panicky and brute force.

Actually, it's the other way around. Nvidia has been coming out with good stuff that works well in games, while ATI has been whoring itself out saying "look here! we are the fastest! We were first to DX9! Even though we have to come out with a 100 bug fixes for games every patch please buy us! Cause we are the fastest! Thats all that matters right?"

Well, now that the FX5900 is out ATI's little party is over.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:25 AM
Ray the clueless continues.

Just stick to Nvidia Ray and quit talking about things you know nothing about.

If other people are happy it's pretty useless to keep on crapping in this thread.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:43 AM
RBJ bad news!

nVidia has in interviews stated that they will continue with their game specific optimizations and they think they got the like to alter the shaders the way the wants too.

see www.sweclockers.com (http://www.sweclockers.com)


RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- ZG77_Nagual wrote:
-- Ati's approach is intelligent and measured -
-- nvidia's is panicky and brute force.
-
- Actually, it's the other way around. Nvidia has
- been coming out with good stuff that works well in
- games, while ATI has been whoring itself out saying
- "look here! we are the fastest! We were first to
- DX9! Even though we have to come out with a 100 bug
- fixes for games every patch please buy us! Cause we
- are the fastest! Thats all that matters right?"
-
- Well, now that the FX5900 is out ATI's little party
- is over.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 11:45 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- ATI lovers. Here's another game that ATI fails at.
-
- <a
- href="http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.p
- hp?s=&threadid=93221"
- target=_blank>http://forum.racesimcentral.com/show
- thread.php?s=&threadid=93221</a>
-
-
- Da Buzz

Buzz I don't no wether to hug you or slap you after going to that link /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

there was another link to some "ingame"tweaks which I tried
and it really messed up Nascar2003 for me eg:some of the menu screens were missing some graphics,some tracks would'nt load and no performance boost,so I decided to reinstall-3 times I tried (even restored to previous)and the game was still loading in the tampered f%$^up way(allso with patch and added tracks!?!)so I uninstalled again and delleted all the folders/files i could find then clicked on the disk but it was still giving me uninstall only options-went to "add remove" and it was still listed(at 2.52mb!?!>)so I went into the disk and installed from there,and all was good /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ..
reinstalled the tracks etc,configered controls and got down to "ingame "menu graphics options.

the poor fps I'd been getting in N2003 had been a disapointment /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

so I set things as exactly before-1600x1200@32 DX-ATI@4xAA(allways on)FAA8x(app pref)
"ingame menu"
all maxed-mirror@second lowest(just track,trees,sky and cars)cars shiney/sheen on roads/cars visible-(front16-back5)full damage/simulation /opposition strengh automatic etc

I was getting 24fps behind the line up at start /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

not happy with that after all the messing about I went back into the "ingame"menu and turned off all of the second(lower)shadows section ,eg:-object shadows on cars,car shadows on car etc.. and guess what? I got a 21fps jump!!with the full line up in front(highest detail)my fps jumped from 24fps to 46fps!! average!!I could find no visuel differance!!(possibley might in replay??)if I've got 5 or 6 cars in front I'm averageing 70fps!!I'm sooo happy!!(this and FB is basically all I play)

so thanks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ...I think :l

I allso noticed switching from AA(apps pref)to(allways on)realy improved the look of the road markings etc without a noticable fps loss,though there seems to be a little "slight" juddering in some tight corners eg:Richmond but I kind of like it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

AMD1900XP
A7v333
1024mbDDR333
Hercules9700Pro
Audigy
5.1 surround (max sounds ingame=11-surround)

and the final freaky one..no fps hit in the big pile ups(45fps!!)

now, to find the button that does that in FB(in topic /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )



<img src=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-D9-29_small.jpg>
"yeah whatever"

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 01:13 PM
RBJ, the radeon9700 pro is a card +one yead old that can compete and/or be superior to every nvidia card except 5900 ones.

The geforcde fx5800 ultra is maybe 6 months old, and compete with r9700pro which has 15 micron technology and much more older

Have you looked at the working frequences of the r9700pro and 5800 ultra?

GforceFx 5800 Ultra 500 MHz GPU / 500 MHz (1000 Mhz DDR II)
Radeon 9700 Pro 325MHz VPU / 310 (620 DDR) MHz,(sapphire)

You see the numbers? Now think that those two cards are more or less even in terms of performance, wining nvidia in some aspects and ati in others.

Who is taking brute force approach to obtain performance?
Who had the better architecture? and gives same performance at much less Mhz?

Now ati is about to release his new generation of 15 micron cards. The 9600 was the first, aimed at medium performace sector.

Even more nvidia needed to cheat in his drivers to reach ati levels of performance I deleted the images from differents detonator drivers months ago (i was searching to find the better card and buy it) from my hard disk.

Fx cards run at 16 bits and 32 bits internal modes . The first is fast but poor image quality. The other is too compolex for any hardware today and gives low fps. Ati worked only at 24 bits giving good fps and image quality.

I respect very much the newer 5900 cards. Hey are very powerfull and are IMHO the better cards at the moment, but after the discover of the exe detection cheat in drivers, his performance has reached levels only a bit ahead ot the 9800 ones. The accelerated shadow calculations are cool but unfortunately fx cards dont handle too well pixel shaders /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I still recommend anyone who wants the better card to buy a 5900 or a 9800, even if the second gives some problems on a minority of games.

RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- ZG77_Nagual wrote:
-- Ati's approach is intelligent and measured -
-- nvidia's is panicky and brute force.
-
- Actually, it's the other way around. Nvidia has
- been coming out with good stuff that works well in
- games, while ATI has been whoring itself out saying
- "look here! we are the fastest! We were first to
- DX9! Even though we have to come out with a 100 bug
- fixes for games every patch please buy us! Cause we
- are the fastest! Thats all that matters right?"
-
- Well, now that the FX5900 is out ATI's little party
- is over.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)



http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 03:25 PM
I like a lot the specs of these flashy ATI9800 and FX5900 cards.

Unfortunately I can not afford the luxury to pay 450 dollars just for a card.

200 dollars/euros for a ATI 9500Pro was the max I was prepared to invest.
For this amount of money, ATI cards offer the best performance (with a lot of AntiAliasing etc etc) compared to what is available in the nVidea camp.

And I was lucky enough to have one of the 9500 128Mb Saphire cards which can be "tweaked" to 9700 (with a different set of SW-drivers).

True, I can not fly with Perfect settings but I have not seeing anybody claiming to be flying with perfect settings in the forum. Besides, the water in perfect settings looks horrible (subjective opinion).

If I ever have the money again (just bought a new machine 2 months ago) I will go for a P4HyperThreading machine. They cost in Europe 2000 Euro (and the FX5900 is already included in the price).

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 04:58 PM
Ignore Him

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 05:02 PM
crunchieone


Sorry, I should have warned you. I tried those settings, and got the same results you did. I don't know where that guy is coming from, but his ideas stink. The slow performance in NR2003, and the crummy performance in GPL is what made me switch to the 5900 this time. I'll be hones. FB ran ok with the 9800 pro, but I was never satisfied with the fps I was getting at higher reolutions. GPl will always be my main game, and that's what I build my systems for. There is a 55/65/30's mods coming out for it. GPL will never die. After almost 5 years, guys are still buying it. The forums always have noobs showing up.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 05:55 PM
buzzU


pls contact me.. i have an urgent question regarding your sig..the rall 109g2

wastel@bf109.de



wastel

ZG77_Nagual
07-28-2003, 06:19 PM
I can run in Perfect mode with no probs and tolerable frames. I happen to like really high frame rates though - so usually run in excellent. (frames in perfect avg aroung 40-50)

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:41 PM
Hi Buzz
I got the Legendary GPL a few months ago but I can't run it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif , I tried downloadeing a couple of patches but the earlier ones in the sequence were not there/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ,then I tried a beta OpenGL fix and only the bottom half of the screen would load/draw properly,shame there was a nice feel to it..

any links/advice would be appreciated /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

oh yeah ,I love FB!!(0n topic /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )



<img src=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-D9-29_small.jpg>
"yeah whatever"

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:39 PM
crunchieone

Go to this forum about any problems with GPL. You'll see me there using my real name, and 6000 posts. yes, I hang out there too../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?s=eb0c28ea5d287ae668ef92a992f4d6c 7&forumid=36

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 03:25 AM
Just fired up Fb on my new system (P4 3.2 5900) I'm impressed,and very happy.

Black death track
1280 res
6xfsaa
Perfect and everything else at max

Never under 30fps, with a high of 80fps. Smooth as silk. Not one tiny stutter. No jaggies.

You can rag on the 5900 if you want, but I like it.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 03:28 AM
Yeah.....i still hate you.


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 03:52 AM
No problem. I'd hate me too, if I wasn't me../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 03:57 AM
Buster_Dee wrote:
- That second set of shots had me salivating.
- Unorfunately can't get that on my machine. Alienware
- build me a 3.2G with 5900 Ultra 256, Clean machine,
- but started crashing and rebooting itself. Docs say
- 24/7 support, but I had to wait on the phone one
- evening for an hour before the recording said I have
- to call during the day. I'm kind of splooled up
- about that right now, but they'll sort it out I'm
- sure. Anyway, even when the system was running, I
- never got the "new" water effects, even in Perfect.
- Also, the "camera" relfection is still that
- five-point thingy, not the circles the post shows. I
- guess I'll be asking for some setup tips when the
- rig get's back on its feet.
-
- Nice shots though.

Um...Alienware is cr@p.

I bought one a few years ago when they were just coming into their own. Worked for a while then had ALL sorts of problems. Their components are all generic. Their support is a third party contracter (NOT Alienware). AND their "optimizations" are a scam, there's no such thing. I was furious...I can feel your pain.




<html> <body><p align="center">http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig3.jpg
<font color=red>If.I.could..just.reach.my.utility.belt!</font> </body>
<center><font color=yellow>BlitzPigMachine<font>

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 04:47 PM
Right on

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 04:51 PM
Rogodin

I sort of forgot, but wern't you the one doing the black death tests? If you were, here's my results.

2003-07-29 01:03:09 - il2fb
Frames: 6833 - Time: 119438ms - Avg: 57.209 - Min: 25 - Max: 117

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Gunther Rall

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg