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Tarelther
04-16-2016, 11:02 AM
Need another reason to build Fortifications in multiplayer? This is the best reason.


https://youtu.be/cAz58LR7r_g

Main hero build - Serguei, Vindicator
Level 2 - Novice Offense
Level 3 - Battle Frenzy
Level 4 - Opportunism
Level 5 - Expert Warcries
Level 6 - Onslaught
Level 7 - Coordinated Effort

If using Edric, change the following:
Level 2 - Battle Frenzy
Level 3 - Novice Warcries

One support hero should get Treasure Finder early. Ideally a second gets Merchant.

The idea is use the high initiative of Silverbacks to go last in the first round and first in the second with Feral Charge, Opportunism and enhanced Engage to do massive damage. If the Feral Charge to end round 1 gets a kill, the Coordinated Effort goes on the Silverbacks turn in round 2, potentially giving 4 moves in a row. Since the Silverbacks' next turn is immediately after the turn Feral Charge was used, the defense penalty is avoided completely.

Town Build Order
Day 1 - Hall of Heroes, hire second hero
Day 2 - Barracks
Day 3 - Loophole Tower
Day 4 - Beast Lair, hire third hero and all troops
Day 5 - Town Hall
Day 6 - Recruiter's Office
Day 7 - Slaughterhouse
Day 8 - Marketplace, hire both faction heroes and all troops, upgrade your core dwelling on the map, sell as much as needed to afford it all, ferry army from town to dwelling to upgrade then march towards the opponent.

IMMORTAL_999
04-16-2016, 10:01 PM
@Tarelther

Dude, you know how fun and enjoyable to comment on ... well done!
Although I do not understand English, but interesting to watch and especially listen. )

DenisTheGreat
04-18-2016, 11:10 AM
2 days ago I met a player who used exactly the same rush strategy with Silverbacks, etc.
I was able to kill him without fortifications (outside of the castle) with an Academy hero (with good attack magic).

IMMORTAL_999
04-18-2016, 11:53 AM
2 days ago I met a player who used exactly the same rush strategy with Silverbacks, etc.
I was able to kill him without fortifications (outside of the castle) with an Academy hero (with good attack magic).

Maybe it was the same player "Tarelther".

DenisTheGreat
04-18-2016, 12:06 PM
Maybe it was the same player "Tarelther".
No. An other one, from US. But exactly same style.

Personally I do not like this "quick game" type when you set the neutrals to "easy" and fight everybody with autocombat. You loose in important part of the gameplay. However - games goes without bugs ))

IMMORTAL_999
04-18-2016, 12:39 PM
... and fight everybody with autocombat. You loose in important part of the gameplay.

I totally agree with you.
I've never used this mode of "auto battle" and i have a little disrespect to the players who use this mode.
This is lazy players who like a freebie (a free food). :)

Tarelther
04-19-2016, 12:16 AM
No. An other one, from US. But exactly same style.

Personally I do not like this "quick game" type when you set the neutrals to "easy" and fight everybody with autocombat. You loose in important part of the gameplay. However - games goes without bugs ))

No that was definitely not me.

If you want to see your opponent's side of that game, you can find it here.

https://www.twitch.tv/savageuchiwaa/v/60811871 Start at 1:10:00. There's a lot of background noise, so you may want to mute it. Final battle is at 1:32:00.

You will notice vastly different decisions being made. For example, I would not send an 1100 damage Feral Charge into 1 Gargoyle. I do hope that was mis-click. I also leave unneeded resources on the ground to not waste movement, where this player does not.

I could keep going, but that could have very easily gone another way with different decisions made. I still think you should have built Walls and Towers for Days 6 and 7, just for safety. :) Academy basically wins late game against Haven anyway. No sense taking unnecessary risk imo.

IMMORTAL_999
04-19-2016, 12:56 AM
No sense taking unnecessary risk imo.

Yeah dude! you are damn right!
Okay, I wish you good luck and good streams!
Bye!

Gourou7592
04-19-2016, 09:30 AM
No that was definitely not me.

If you want to see your opponent's side of that game, you can find it here.

https://www.twitch.tv/savageuchiwaa/v/60811871 Start at 1:10:00. There's a lot of background noise, so you may want to mute it. Final battle is at 1:32:00.

You will notice vastly different decisions being made. For example, I would not send an 1100 damage Feral Charge into 1 Gargoyle. I do hope that was mis-click. I also leave unneeded resources on the ground to not waste movement, where this player does not.

I could keep going, but that could have very easily gone another way with different decisions made. I still think you should have built Walls and Towers for Days 6 and 7, just for safety. :) Academy basically wins late game against Haven anyway. No sense taking unnecessary risk imo.

Have you a skill to kill Academy in a long party with Heaven ?

DenisTheGreat
04-19-2016, 12:39 PM
I still think you should have built Walls and Towers for Days 6 and 7, just for safety. :)

Thanks for the stream of my battle, I will keep it as a record. Feel a little bit like TV star now lol :D

Some comments from my side:
1) AI is very stupid in using spells in auto-combat, or maybe not use them at all. So with this style of gameplay (forced auto-combat against neutrals) Academy heroes have a huge disadvantage v.s. might heroes of other fractions. I had very big losses before we met. I would estimate that I lost about 50-70% of my total army on 1st week fighting neutrals. If we play normal game - I would expect no losses at all.
2) If I build built Walls and Towers for Days 6 and 7 - I would probably not be able to build the Mana Core (because first need to build marketplace as well in Academy town), and this is crucial for my development because after week 1 I usually remain without mana. My town development on 1st week is like following: 1-Hall of Heroes, 2-Workshop, 3-Magic Guild1, 4-Magic Guild2, 5-dwellings, 6-dwellings, 7-dwellings, 2/1 - Mana Core. Or stay without 3 dwellings, and this is not fine as well.
3) Yes, I was lucky to get the Fire Wall in the guild. But if not - I had 3 other options:
- to build lvl 3 and get fire ball
- I believe that with full army (without huge losses due to forced auto-combat) I could win anyhow only with fire arrow and Small Pyramid both on master lvl.
- to use hit'n'run tactic (I not like it but still is not forbidden).

IMMORTAL_999
04-19-2016, 12:58 PM
@DenisTheGreat

Well, it was clear at the beginning of the round )
At the Academy was practically no army and the main hero, was of 7 level. (Also practically there was no magic).
This turn of events, suited for the warriors of any factions.

But now you're - STAR of SCREEN !!! :))) ))

Tarelther
04-19-2016, 01:13 PM
Have you a skill to kill Academy in a long party with Heaven ?

Haven is all about creature combat. All of their creatures in some way have enhanced ability to fight other creatures, mostly by buffing friendly units next to them somehow.

You know how to punish units all standing next to each other? Area of Effect damage, like from Disciples, does the trick. So do damage spells, especially those cast on Master rank with +20 Magic thanks to Metamagic. Late game, an Academy hero will be able to have 10 Metamagic by round 4. (+4 from start of round, +3 from one spell per round, +3 from Small Pyramid shots or second spell per round from Clarity) Seraphs/Celestials only prevent negative effects from affecting nearby allies, not damage spells. (Note this means Poison Cloud will NOT work)

Also consider the Academy hero is getting mana back during combat either from Soul Harvest, kills from Djinns, or both. Haven has no way to recover mana in combat.

If Haven is going to beat an Academy hero late game, it's going to have to be in the first 3 rounds of combat, because come round 4, it's basically over.

Tarelther
04-19-2016, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the stream of my battle, I will keep it as a record. Feel a little bit like TV star now lol :D

Some comments from my side:
1) AI is very stupid in using spells in auto-combat, or maybe not use them at all. So with this style of gameplay (forced auto-combat against neutrals) Academy heroes have a huge disadvantage v.s. might heroes of other fractions. I had very big losses before we met. I would estimate that I lost about 50-70% of my total army on 1st week fighting neutrals. If we play normal game - I would expect no losses at all.
2) If I build built Walls and Towers for Days 6 and 7 - I would probably not be able to build the Mana Core (because first need to build marketplace as well in Academy town), and this is crucial for my development because after week 1 I usually remain without mana. My town development on 1st week is like following: 1-Hall of Heroes, 2-Workshop, 3-Magic Guild1, 4-Magic Guild2, 5-dwellings, 6-dwellings, 7-dwellings, 2/1 - Mana Core. Or stay without 3 dwellings, and this is not fine as well.
3) Yes, I was lucky to get the Fire Wall in the guild. But if not - I had 3 other options:
- to build lvl 3 and get fire ball
- I believe that with full army (without huge losses due to forced auto-combat) I could win anyhow only with fire arrow and Small Pyramid both on master lvl.
- to use hit'n'run tactic (I not like it but still is not forbidden)..

If you're losing that much army, you're taking fights that you have no business taking. Kyrree had the same problem until he saw how I take fights. I only take fights that guard absolutely necessary things. For example, if I know I need 15 wood and no ore Week 1 for my town build, anything guarding Wood and Ore just doesn't get engaged after I have enough. Ore Pit I'll still generally take since it's often no losses anyway.

Had you waited in your town, the attack would have come 2 days after it did. That's your walls and towers right there. No risk and you still have your other stuff. The advantage to building the walls early is it builds local guard sooner. The towers can wait until the day before/of the attack. I'm sure you're going "Oh wow, 6 cabirs and gargoyles! Wooooooo!" Consider though if you find Ice Strike or Lightning Burst in your Mage Guild. All of a sudden those extra stacks of troops do significant damage and draw fire from the opponent, protecting your more valuable stacks.

The AI doesn't use spells in auto combat unless you lose the fight without casting spells. In that case, you're still taking losses, but you can trick the AI into using your mana by running a smaller army. This also means you can delay the Mage Guilds until week 2 because they serve no purpose when running with your full army until you meet a human opponent.

I know this may just seem like boring optimizations, but it can make a difference in close games.

IMMORTAL_999
04-19-2016, 01:42 PM
@Tarelther:

What is your best faction?
Who is your favorite?

DenisTheGreat
04-19-2016, 01:51 PM
Have you a skill to kill Academy in a long party with Heaven ?
I believe Heaven is very vulnerable to attack magic of all fractions, not only Academy.

Probably the basic idea could be to try all possible means to get very high initiative and leadership with support of Righteousness, so that once heaven units start to attack - they will kill everybody in 1st round. I heard about some final battles when opponent of Heaven was completely destroyed in 1st round not having even a possibility to do anything.

An other advantage of Heaven is bigger quantity of basic and elite units then in the town of Academy. So on big maps when the final battle is very late in the gameplay - the role of direct damage spells become not so important because their damage has a certain limit in the game. And at that time a might hero with big army would be much more powerful.

And also you should remember that if you place the units in final battle in traditional for heaven "box" style (all together close to each other) they become very easy to kill with any group damage spells (like fireball, cyclone or circle of winter).

IMMORTAL_999
04-19-2016, 02:28 PM
The legionnaries is the basis of all military of faction "Haven".
without them, all other creatures are very vulnerable to various attacks.

"...Fireball, Tsunami, Ring of cold and other mass the spells"

do not forget that if the main hero of Haven faction is strong enough, he spell may use "resurrection of creatures".
The Haven - this is a very hard nut, if you use it right!

DenisTheGreat
04-19-2016, 04:15 PM
2 Tarelther
What is the name of the map that you play in your stream ? Is it the big map with 8 players ? You choosed random positions ?
Probably it is not easy to find the opponent on that big map?

Tarelther
04-20-2016, 12:00 AM
2 Tarelther
What is the name of the map that you play in your stream ? Is it the big map with 8 players ? You choosed random positions ?
Probably it is not easy to find the opponent on that big map?

Yes, that was Irresponsible War with random start positions. It's not really that difficult to find someone once you break into the middle. You should be able to find your opponent's main base within 3 turns of scouting the middle.

DenisTheGreat
04-21-2016, 06:25 PM
Tarelther
when you record stream - you play full screen mode or windowed ?
I tried to make some streams but for me it works only in windowed mode.

Tarelther
04-22-2016, 12:01 AM
It's full screen. Windowed should work too though. Game Capture generally doesn't care if the application is full screen or windowed.

DenisTheGreat
04-22-2016, 01:32 PM
What software you use for Game Capture in full screen ?
I have some issues with obs regarding full screen.

Tarelther
04-23-2016, 03:40 AM
I use OBS Studio, previously known as OBS Multi-platform. That gives me no issues with full screen.

Violetta-98
04-23-2016, 08:17 AM
I use OBS Studio, previously known as OBS Multi-platform. That gives me no issues with full screen.

I am interested in your microphone and headphones.
Who is their producer (firm)?

you're so sweet :o

Tarelther
04-23-2016, 04:19 PM
The microphone is an Audio Technica AT2020 USB condenser microphone. The headset is a HyperX Cloud Gaming Headset.

Violetta-98
04-24-2016, 09:37 AM
The microphone is an Audio Technica AT2020 USB condenser microphone. The headset is a HyperX Cloud Gaming Headset.

Cool!
I never played with American players, please tell me in this game a lot of players from North America?
You are an American or Canadian?
Sorry, as far as I remember, players from Russia are always dominated of this game.
For me it would be nice to play with the American guys, but I now have little time for these games.
I'm sure you'll play when I have free time, if you do not mind. :rolleyes: