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XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 12:20 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Sorry for the inflammatory title, but that's really how I feel, in a ribbing, "ragging" kind of way.

I ran three polls on various aspects of approach to the sim.

Taking a look at the results,

80% said they prefer "historical plane matchups", while only 1% would admit to just flying an ueberplane to get the 'fastest, best armed monster for blowing stuff up with'.

90% said historical accuracy in map and mission were either somewhat important or very important, with very important at 50% of the total.

71% see IL-2/FB/AEP as both a sim and a game, and 24% see it as a serious simulation; apparently, few see it as "*just* a game".

That's what people "say"...

Meanwhile, you don't see this in the online community when flying. In fact, you see the polar opposite, with 90% or more of both DF servers and co-ops playing very fast and loose with planeset, maps, realism features, missions, you name it. Basically the only "historical split" you can see is "Axis vs. Allied" and that, I'd guess only 60 - 70% of the time (a lot of 'full planeset both sides' going on out there).

Going further, espousing a more historical approach to all aspects of the sim (in the Pacific Fighters thread) brings charges of "trying to control the sim" or defenses of the "unhistorical, whatever grab-bag" style of play.

Something doesn't match up here, does it?

XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 12:20 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Sorry for the inflammatory title, but that's really how I feel, in a ribbing, "ragging" kind of way.

I ran three polls on various aspects of approach to the sim.

Taking a look at the results,

80% said they prefer "historical plane matchups", while only 1% would admit to just flying an ueberplane to get the 'fastest, best armed monster for blowing stuff up with'.

90% said historical accuracy in map and mission were either somewhat important or very important, with very important at 50% of the total.

71% see IL-2/FB/AEP as both a sim and a game, and 24% see it as a serious simulation; apparently, few see it as "*just* a game".

That's what people "say"...

Meanwhile, you don't see this in the online community when flying. In fact, you see the polar opposite, with 90% or more of both DF servers and co-ops playing very fast and loose with planeset, maps, realism features, missions, you name it. Basically the only "historical split" you can see is "Axis vs. Allied" and that, I'd guess only 60 - 70% of the time (a lot of 'full planeset both sides' going on out there).

Going further, espousing a more historical approach to all aspects of the sim (in the Pacific Fighters thread) brings charges of "trying to control the sim" or defenses of the "unhistorical, whatever grab-bag" style of play.

Something doesn't match up here, does it?

Tully__
04-03-2004, 12:30 PM
What doesn't match up is that a lot of your poll participants only fly offline.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edit: BTW, I was honest with my responses http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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SeaFireLIV
04-03-2004, 12:36 PM
I never took part in any of the polls. I knew where this was going.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Just another form of whining.

TexasGunslinger
04-03-2004, 12:37 PM
Maybe the situation is that even though people would like to see historical accuracy, limited planesets, etc.... the reality is that there are'nt that many to choose from that are populated. I've gone to a few of these by myself sometimes but that did'nt change anything.

Maybe there are too many easy choices.....and there are a lot of people flying online these days who were'nt flying 6 months ago.

I think it takes time for people to get bored with the "immediate gratification" oriented servers and want something more stimulating.

In summary, yes you're right, I should support more historical servers........

I'm trying.......I'd like to see more of the popular servers go historical, at least mission to mission (when they cycle)...that would help...

I think we all naturally gravitate to servers that have a lot of flyers....

You made good points....

mike_espo
04-03-2004, 12:38 PM
Stiglr: Shut up already!!!!! Go play that stupid TR

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

MssrSchmidt
04-03-2004, 12:40 PM
I didn't see your poll, and thus didn't take it. But I'm with Tully.

Did you limit the poll to those who fly online only? If not, it's no different than, say, letting Democrats vote in your Republican primary and then assuming the result reflects the Republicans' preference.

(Sorry, political overload here.)

Teufel_Eldritch
04-03-2004, 01:13 PM
Also...ppl that visit the forums are not the only ppl that fly. Many ppl that fly FB never visit these forums. It could very well be that most of the forum goers here prefer more historical realism but.....that doesnt necessarily reflect the FB community as a whole. Most FB players never see this forum & play on DF or Free-for-all servers.

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
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IV|JG51Flatspin
04-03-2004, 01:22 PM
Is it possible that an 'uber' plane actually fits historically?

Did you check your demographics to make sure you got an accurate cross-section of the community? (echos of Tully's post); or did only one side really answer the call?

Did all the people who answered in one poll answer them all? (no, I only participated in one of them).

So I/We might not all be liars...but my feet do stink! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!

=Elite=Flatspin
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XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 01:45 PM
Why did I limit to online only?

Because offline fliers are irrelevant to the discussion of "historical flying in the online community".

We all know that offline, it's "whatever floats your boat". Nobody disputes this.

But, for purposes of the community as a whole, it takes all of us, and we interact, which we do NOT do flying offline.

For many, they will fall into both camps, so their opinion is relevant.

For "offline only" players, as I said, they're invisible and irrelevant.

And, of course, I admit the poll is far from "scientific"; but it's an interesting "straw poll" nonetheless. If the numbers weren't so diametrically opposed to the behavior, I wouldn't post this. I actually thought the numbers would fall more in the "both ways" centrist category. But I have to admit being surprised that people "say" they agree with me (meaning, I prefer more realism across the board, whenever I play)... yet their actions online go totally counter to this.

heywooood
04-03-2004, 02:02 PM
What are you trying to prove Stig? that its a game that is taken too seriously by "us"?
Or that its a serious flight sim that people are taking too lightly?.. or that you're the only person that knows whats "really" going on. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gifhahaha

Just wondering aloud, no offense intended mind you.

arcadeace
04-03-2004, 02:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
What are you trying to prove Stig? that its a game that is taken too seriously by "us"?
Or that its a serious flight sim that people are taking too lightly?.. or that you're the only person that knows whats "really" going on. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gifhahaha

Just wondering aloud, no offense intended mind you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah its what I'm wondering too. I'm offline so its true personal preference make's no difference. I thought the polls were interesting/amusing but Stiglr if you're trying to prove yourself in our public forum as being right, so what? People are gonna play how they want. This poll is very, very far from scientific. I think what has been clearly revealed in these past couple of weeks is you're possibly the most discontented person here.

Its easy to judge all this as an "I told you so" and its doesn't hold water. You're a perfectionist and purist, and very much a legalist. You're not very tolerant. If others enjoy it in ways you don't, be a man and accept it. Enjoy what you can or don't play. Its a flight sim?

VW-IceFire
04-03-2004, 02:39 PM
Its a matter of target audience and the poll targets the audience on UBI.com forums and not on dogfight servers.

To properly get a good and accurate result to account for the people on dogfight servers you need to go there and do the survey there...if people were to actually give you the time of day...I find most are even lacking the ability to communicate "Bandit on your six! Break!" or work in teams (although there are certainly many to the contrary of this too).

I'd really love to see servers like Slammin's or some of the other popular dogfight servers go to a historical plane match with semi-historical map setups (i.e. they can still do their bases are less than 4 minutes apart) and realistically placed targets...those who want to fly every plane can just get used to learning a new plane...as there are MANY types available (even if it were to be limited to a specific slice of useable aircraft) and many styles of combat available in all years of play.

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p1ngu666
04-03-2004, 02:46 PM
i quite like early war stuff, thats pretty rare. more crap plane stuff is about tho http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif.
i do wanna have fun when i play tho.. i think if more historic stuff was about then more would play, but ppl make and run the servers so its a demand thing

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ArjenKuifje
04-03-2004, 04:49 PM
Please, keep this in mind: this is 'just a game' nothing more, nothing less.
Even if we tend achieve any form of realism, , it will never work out.
We can sit in our comfy home, with or without Track-IR, Rudder Pedals, 5.1 surround or wathever.... we are all just trying to have fun ..

"The real hero is the pilot who lives to fight another day".
This quote is from Chuck Yeager (and I guess from many others) and it has been true ever since man has started to take off and tried to down an enemy....
Suggested reading: 'Winged Victory' by Victor Yates http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/yeates.html.
Read it, just to get in touch with 'reality'

I really do only fly offline, and having lots of fun. I really enjoy anthing I see happen that points to reality in a sense of 'yeah, this could have happened' and even when I see a wingman following it's leader, while the leader is being attacked, the wingman still follows, while having a possible clear shot at the attacking enemy, and still doing nothing about it, then I know, yeah this a just a game, a sim, whatever you want to call it, but I'm still enjoying it, still having lots of fun...

By the way, starting my own poll: how many of you out there do have a rudder bar, not pedals like in modern day planes, but a real bar like in a Sopwith Camel. I do, it's great, you can really 'kick' the rudder and swing about!

lindyman
04-03-2004, 05:00 PM
Well, you got the feet part right. Want my socks? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
_
/Bjorn.

Dolemite-
04-03-2004, 05:08 PM
Ever been golfing with the Fuhrer?

___________________________________________
Flying on HL as -Dolemite-
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Luftkillier
04-03-2004, 05:09 PM
One thing can be said about you dude, you are persistent and I like that in people. However, you should man up and face it, you and people like you "do not" control the world and all that is in it. You "do" have the choice to setup a server or squadron and do it all "your way" as nobody is going to stop ya.

You should also recognize that your hardcore realism or die attitude places you on the fringe of this expansive community. Thanks for adding to my comic relief for the afternoon http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 05:50 PM
And you should realize, Luftkiller, that being in the majority doesn't make you any more correct than I think I am.

It just makes you "common".

If you had something to say, perhaps you'd score some points on the merits of why history is unimportant, and it's just the dogfight that's the thing.

I'd love to hear you wax eloquent on that.

Meanwhile, I have a pretty darned good point, unpopular and "inconvenient" though it may seem.

clint-ruin
04-03-2004, 05:59 PM
Stay tuned for the next poll where Stiglr tries to work out whether it's really alright to wear a hair shirt and flagellate yourself while you play.

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lindyman
04-03-2004, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
And you should realize, Luftkiller, that being in the majority doesn't make you any more correct than I think I am.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not being Luftkiller, I should perhaps not say anything, but the above made me curious.

Define "correct" in the IL-2/FB/AEP context.
_
/Bjorn.

04-03-2004, 06:12 PM
Stig, from the responses that I see here, I start to realize, or at least hope, that the forum doesn't reflect the community of FB. People who don't even fly online *****ing about an online question. Assinine replies like the one from luftkiller just reinforce the belief that arcade pilots do dabble in more serious sims, but never to fully appreciate them. Never will they understand the finer nuances of particular planes and realize there is more to it than just 1 plane against any other, not realizing the signifigance of a planes position and role in both history and theatre.

Stig, I can say this. Old serious flight simmers are a dieing breed. Very few of the "arcaders" try and see past their own perception. They don't realize what the beauty is of a Battle of Britian scenario, or a historical situation, the don't look for the insight and comparisons, and they don't ever question the "fact" that the Mustang won the war. They are the ones who agree with whatever the History channel says, they will never fly with a cockpit.

Stig, forget these guys. They still post "uberplane" whines. Would have liked to see some of these guys try to fly Warbirds in it's heyday.

Stigler, come visit the new AGW off topic site at www.goagw.com (http://www.goagw.com).

blabla0001
04-03-2004, 06:24 PM
Stiglr is still looking for historical accuracy on the dogfight servers?

Amazing.....

Here is an option, make your own dogfight server.

I did, historical plane settings on the correct map with all kinds of fun on the map to drop your bombs and rockets on.

However, it's closed sessions only since I don't want all the arcade kiddies roaming around on it, even if the majority leaves because the difficulty is too steep for them I had to kick a few of them in the past because they where shooting at friendly planes when they got frustrated.

So in order to prevent that I just play with people I know.

The arcade kiddies are the ones that bring the most money in the Oleg & Co wallet, so I don't really mind what they are doing.

We can all choose what we want to do, some seek historical accuracy while others seek something else.

Big deal Stiglr, just accept the fact that not everybody is like you and move on.

All your doing is force your view to the rest of the people over here.

We are free to choose our own ways and nobody here has to accept your views just because you feel they are what's best for everybody else.

But I am sure this won't sink in your brain since it's protected by an extremely dense skull that was developed over the decades with large quanteties of extra calcium milk.

Luftkillier
04-03-2004, 06:25 PM
"If you had something to say, perhaps you'd score some points on the merits of why history is unimportant, and it's just the dogfight that's the thing."

Dude, if this were a history game maybe I would but it is not so your won't get that free lesson you dreamed about all day. Seriously though, why is it that you find it so hard to host coops or set up your own DF server where pilots of like minds can meet? Why are you running away from that "solution"?

[This message was edited by Luftkillier on Sat April 03 2004 at 05:37 PM.]

Luftkillier
04-03-2004, 06:35 PM
Head up butt, you need to realize that not everyone that does not play full diffuculty 100% can still appreciate the historical aspects of the sim. The real problem lies will control freaks like you. You want to control what people do, how they do it, how and what should think and when. Get over yourself and the childish generalizations about people and they way they may or may not fly and aprreciate this sim. You don't know anything about anyone's appreciation based on what setting they fly. That is just stupid.

SeaFireLIV
04-03-2004, 06:53 PM
Well, come on guys, couldn`t you see it? Those `POLLS` he put up were designed for only one thing... A chance for him to preach loudly about how HIS way is superior and how everyone on the planet should do it his way. It NEVER mattered what the results were of the poll, HIS OPINION would have been the same.

It would have amazed me if he`d said, " I apologise, cos I see now by the Poll result how my attitude was wrong. I beg forgiveness!!"

The only thing that would really madden him would be if everyone saw what was going on and IGNORED all his polls.

It`s actually quite interesting seeing this guy pop and try several different ways to say exactly the same thing all over again.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

04-03-2004, 08:05 PM
Was gonna make fun of your callsign, but I see you beat me to it, spelling it luftkillier. Good job, 12 year old. Guess you'll be done with FB when Top Gun gets ported to the PS 2.

Your wrong, you can tell just about anyone's appreciation by what settings they fly, and it seems it's ok for you to generalize groups just fine. Didn't understand the rules for the hypocrites, guess I'll have to brush up.

Warbirds had the same problem with the guys who flew relaxed realism arena. They couldn't cut it when it was time to fly with the big boys, and they NEVER understood serious flight simming.

XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 08:27 PM
Very apropos comments, Hedus.

But I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and don't assume they're ignorant arcadists until they affirm it themselves.

It's funny, the same selfish, "all my choice" arguments that I saw in Warbirds, I see in here, almost verbatim. The arcadists have all kinds of excuses for using "features" to hide their lack of skill and insight into the subtleties of aerial warfare behind... and none of the historical relevance naysayers (naturally) can make any case for why NOT to use history as a guideline in play. They have to go right to questioning my motives... which are fairly clear, and unhidden by any agenda as silly as, "I just wanna blow stuff up".

mike_espo
04-03-2004, 08:31 PM
Guys, what this idiot is trying to do is to get us to think FB/AEP is a waste of time. He is recruiting for his stupid Target Rabaul.

On TR, I never saw more than 6 guys on the TR beta server. Always the same guys too. TR needs people, Stiglr is trying to recruit.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 08:34 PM
Luftkiller on the "attack":

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Dude, if this were a history game maybe I would ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh! Stop the presses. IL-2/FB/AEP is *not* a history game...

Let's look at the boxes...

From IL-2:

"...you will call it the most exciting and realistic combat flight experience you've ever had.."

"...Oleg Maddox..recreates the harshest and deadlies air battles of WWII's eastern Front..."

From Forgotten Battles:

"Improved flight dynamics for added realism..."
"Three new map areas of Finland, Hungary, and Ukraine/Poland..." (these are all "real" places, last I checked)

And finally, from AEP's box...

"the most realistic WWII flight simulation to date....authentic aircraft..."

"Enhanced flight dynamics, featuring unsurpassed precision..."

Doesn't sound like the goal is to be Air Quake does it, or to ignore history...?

So...you wanna...rephrase that? Once you get your big size 10 out of the back of your mouth?

arcadeace
04-03-2004, 08:51 PM
I think some of you guys need a life. This immersion stuff is tough on the coconut. Can you enjoy getting laid?

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knightflyte
04-03-2004, 09:36 PM
Stiglr.......You sound like the new Ray Ban Jockey spouting out your only way to fly.... historical attitude....Oleg sold out to the "MURRICANS" mumbo jumbo.

The difference between RBJ and you is he had a sense of humor about life AND himself.
You're just annoying and petty.

How people play and enjoy the game/sim/diversion is seperate for each individual. And each of us diserves to play it our own way.

We dont need your elitist BS... we don't need a history lesson from you or a video game....(no matter how much it tries to simulates history)

Since IL2 is SUCH a burden to your psyche, I recommend stop playing.

Your issue it tired and wants to sleep. Put it to rest. If it REALLY is that important to you and ruins the experience, then I feel bad for you.

Tully__
04-03-2004, 10:00 PM
This is getting way too personal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Ease up guys, I'm getting grumpy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

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Salut
Tully

609IAP_Recon
04-03-2004, 10:13 PM
If you calculate the number of missions run for VOW, VEF, Forgotten Skies, etc... you'd see that a big part of online pilots are indeed playing those senarios.

Dogfights are always subject to ffa type senarios.

Coops and wars are a better indicator of our community imo

Salute!

JG50_Recon

----
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Mence
04-03-2004, 10:22 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif VEF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif VOW : http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Why are you not in the skies in these locations?

04-03-2004, 11:30 PM
Espo, you ****ging Target Rabaul shows you have no idea whats going on. I've beta'd both Target Rabaul and Target Korea, as I know the guys working on it. They are working on a job the scope of that you have never seen nor been tried before. They don't have huge financial backing, they are just serious dedicated simmers who have the skills to make soemthing wonderful. I wish you knew the dedication that goes into the flight models.

If Stigler is trying to get you involved in TR and TK, then you should look on it as an invitation into an inner circle of dedicated simmers. Its the future of flight sims.

diabloblanco1
04-04-2004, 12:03 AM
That story sounds like Oleg's legendary rise and the birth of IL-2.

The Devil made me do it!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

F19_Orheim
04-04-2004, 01:17 AM
Gee, lighten up guys!!!

Stiglr, you are entitled to your opinion, AS ALL the rest of mankind out there.

I think you all have to realize that this is a GAME and as such people want to play it in different kinds of ways.

Stiglr, I respect that you want to fly historically correct maps with "full real settings" (always thought this was a stupid name), but remember, if it hadn't been for the versitality and width of this game, I doubt that Maddox Games would be as successful. They have realized (and proud of it) that there ARE different kinds of gamers who like to play DIFFERENT kinds of settings. I think you should be glad that there are, otherwise you would never be able to play YOUR settings as this game probably would not exist. So stop bashing people who play what you call "arcadish" - they help you play this game because they, as you did, BOUGHT it!

I say, be happy that people are different with different wants and needs, stop talking cr*p about people with an oppisite opinion, and be happy that we have a game that can make us all content.

With sincere respect for ya all...
//Orheim

PS: Being rude and call people names does NOT help anyone's arguments, please stay civil!

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[This message was edited by F19_Orheim on Sun April 04 2004 at 12:48 AM.]

BlackPhenix
04-04-2004, 04:04 AM
"BTW, Stiglr you seem to be an angry bloke, maybe we could all picth in and get you an, well "escort" for a "sensual massage" to help release some of that built up "tension" that you seem to be experiencing. Let me know and I'll start a fund for you."


This was good advice given to you in the other thread by Luftkillier, why not take him up on it? It might really help you ease up a tad. Loosen those panties mate.

Heavy_Weather
04-04-2004, 10:55 AM
all of your bases are belong to us http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

"The wise man is often the man who plays dumb."

Luftkillier
04-04-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hedus:
Was gonna make fun of your callsign, but I see you beat me to it, spelling it luftkillier. Good job, 12 year old. Guess you'll be done with FB when Top Gun gets ported to the PS 2.

Your wrong, you can tell just about anyone's appreciation by what settings they fly, and it seems it's ok for you to generalize groups just fine. Didn't understand the rules for the hypocrites, guess I'll have to brush up.

Warbirds had the same problem with the guys who flew relaxed realism arena. They couldn't cut it when it was time to fly with the big boys, and they NEVER understood serious flight simming.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Head up you know where. Much like your malefriend Stiglr(sp)and unlike you I have a popular callsign. Instead of being Luftkiller#-----, I decided much like your malefriend Stiglr(sp) to change to a variation of the name, hence LuftKillier. In other words Head up you know where, it was done on purpose http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-04-2004, 12:09 PM
Orheim, I hear every word you're saying, and you're absolutely right...

but what I'm arguing for is simply a bit more BALANCE in how the players approach the sim (not game, SIM; it's a SIM first, and a game second).

If it were even 50-50 arcade vs. historical, I'd be happy. But it's not even 80-20. More like 90 - 10. That's a DESIGN FLAW, my man. A design FLAW.

Done properly, the sim would lead one (through interface and setup) more to the historical side of things, with avenues to branch out and try what-ifs and ahistorical stuff. You'd have to put more *effort* into creating something silly than you would to fly more historical, if you get my meaning.

It is true that the "unwashed masses" are important, because they buy boxes too and help make the sim/game popular...however, they are also impressionable, follow a herd mentality and will pretty much "take what is given them". If they were "guided" to the more historical flavor in the interface of the sim, they'd still love it. At worst, they wouldn't know the difference, and likely would also be too lazy to put any effort into creating something silly. But, if silly, ahistorical nonsense is how the sim is structured and presented to them, that's what they'll create. It's exactly what's happening now.

Luftkillier
04-04-2004, 12:15 PM
VEF, VOW has EVERTHING the way you want it. Why don't you fly online there?

mike_espo
04-04-2004, 12:26 PM
Stiglr is an idiot. He does not want to listen. He just wants to argue......

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Luftkillier
04-04-2004, 12:32 PM
What? Naw, he will man up and get into the VEF or VOW and admit that he was just misinformed about the wide variety of online options. He is smart, but he does not know everything and based on his posts about online action, he was clearly ignorant of fact that VEF and VOW are there, basically waiting for pilots just like him. He will man up, bet on it.

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
I think some of you guys need a life. This immersion stuff is tough on the coconut. Can you enjoy getting laid?

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hahahaha umm.. ha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-04-2004, 12:43 PM
I'm fully aware of those leagues. I participated in them when they first started.

However, they are for squads, for the most part... and they insist on no-icons, which is a highly penal, decidedly unrealistic visual environment (and a separate debate from this one). It's the other extreme to arcade... trying to make things hardER than real life.

Still, even if you factor this in, it's a small % of what goes on online, and the question of why such a high % of DF and co-op are so devoid of any semblance of historical accuracy still stands.

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Gee, lighten up guys!!!

Stiglr, you are entitled to your opinion, AS ALL the rest of mankind out there.

I think you all have to realize that this is a GAME and as such people want to play it in different kinds of ways.

Stiglr, I respect that you want to fly historically correct maps with "full real settings" (always thought this was a stupid name), but remember, if it hadn't been for the versitality and width of this game, I doubt that Maddox Games would be as successful. They have realized (and proud of it) that there ARE different kinds of gamers who like to play DIFFERENT kinds of settings. I think you should be glad that there are, otherwise you would never be able to play YOUR settings as this game probably would not exist. So stop bashing people who play what you call "arcadish" - they help you play this game because they, as you did, BOUGHT it!

I say, be happy that people are different with different wants and needs, stop talking cr*p about people with an oppisite opinion, and be happy that we have a game that can make us all content.

With sincere respect for ya all...
//Orheim

PS: Being rude and call people names does NOT help anyone's arguments, please stay civil!

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/bandera.gif

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

[This message was edited by F19_Orheim on Sun April 04 2004 at 12:48 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now THATS the way to respond exactly.. well said, Orheim... can it stop now?

Yeti761
04-04-2004, 12:50 PM
Well reading through this little discussion, Its confirmed one thing to me (and Im sure some others) that all this arguing along with all the other hack/cheat and uber issues means I wont be bothering to fly online for a long while yet.
Sure the A.I in game can have issues but at least they are roughly all fighting for the same thing and you dont get flamed when u shoot down a so called "uber" plane.
before I get flamed for being a Noob or whatever Ive been playing this game since IL2 1.0 and I prefer full realism but sometimes you just cant beat that arcade blast.

04-04-2004, 12:54 PM
See? A callsign explains alot too. You copy a bunch of other people, trying to just tweak a little. Mines original, and has been in use online since 1996, offline from 1988.

Stig's name was changed to fit into a letter requirement for a certian sim, and to reflect a real life LW pilot. Yours is as original as "Killer453".

I wouldn't admit the "done on purpose" thing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Luftkillier
04-04-2004, 12:55 PM
Stiglr, you are wrong about the squad only thing. If you have not checked recently, they gladly accept single pilots that register. Although, I take it that the settings are a little "too" restricted for "your" taste. Hmm, that sounds familiar. You are also wrong that coops are devoid of any historical content. Fly coops with the the RAAF or JV54, or how about the 663rd, 361st, 352nd, 99th etc... They are on everyday and you can always just jump into an open slots of their historically based coops games. War Clouds has two DF servers. Slammin's DF server etc.. You can find ANYTHING you want online.

Since I do not claim to be the pollster that you obviously are, I have no solid numbers on ratio. That is really not the issue if all you "really" want to do is "fly" online with guys that share settings preferences. The options are there even for the exact settings "you" want, you just have to check into the sources I gave you if you are serious. Enjoy and hope to shoot you down online soon. See ya in the virtual skies. ~S~

tttiger
04-04-2004, 12:56 PM
Stig,

You know I agree with you on the importance of historical accuracy. My test for a good mission is: "Is it historically plausible (even if not recreation of a real event)?"

The difference between you and me is: If I don't find it plausible, I move on. And I probably won't fly with that host again. I'll look for Coops I like.

I'm not a fan of VOW or VEF (tried 'em both) because they are much too every-man-for-himself rather than a coordinated attack or defense. But at least they are historical planesets on the correct maps. The people who fly them are true simmers.

I host Coops on weekends. Not my own (I can't write em well enough) but missions from Hangar and Bury and Metlushko (wonder whatever happened to him). Frankly, I would prefer to not host (there seems to be a curse that the host always dies early http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and I often fly in other people's Coops, but only if I know they fly historical Coops. If I see a "what if" planeset pop up, I'm back to the Lobby.

As I said in another thread, the DF arcaders pay the freight for this game. It's their money that allows me to fly the realistic missions I want to fly. And we have choices and that's part of the beauty of the game. It isn't like WarBirds with one "Main Arena" where everyone flies. (And I guarantee you they have the same gamer versus simmer fights on their forums). We, at least have choices.

One thing I've learned about arguing with people (and I'm an old guy and, as you can tell, I take no prisoners when I argue for a point) is that they're NEVER going to slap their foreheads and say: "Oh, Geeze, of course, You are so right and I am so wrong."

When you get down to it, almost every one of the threads in all of these forums is simmers versus gamers.

I just fly my sim with those who like the same thing and to hell with all those DF guys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. But they have a right to fly the way they want to just as I do.

Aloha from cold, cloudy and rainy Hawaii. Perfect flying weather (for PC flight sims) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Luftkillier
04-04-2004, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hedus:
See? A callsign explains alot too. You copy a bunch of other people, trying to just tweak a little. Mines original, and has been in use online since 1996, offline from 1988.

Stig's name was changed to fit into a letter requirement for a certian sim, and to reflect a real life LW pilot. Yours is as original as "Killer453".

I wouldn't admit the "done on purpose" thing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would make the same offer to get you an escort that I made to your buddy. However, you seem to be doing a fine job of stroking yourself, so I see it is not needed. Enjoy yourself and don't overdo it, your palms will grow hair. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Der_Rohgehr
04-04-2004, 01:27 PM
WOW

Stiglr posts a little poll and you screamers can't handle it! You would think he had insulted your mother's and maybe that's not a bad idea. Instead of telling Stiglr to go play or fly his sim or game or whatever, WHY DON'T YOU?! (you forum rats!)

And I agree with Stiglr with regards to no icons, this is unrealistically difficult as il2 doesn't come with peripheral vision.


Der Rohgehr


You don't know what real is!

crazyivan1970
04-04-2004, 02:03 PM
Just wanted to remind participants of this topic that i am watching http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif and some of you are slpping quiet often in your argument. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.