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JHAT__
02-16-2004, 12:19 AM
Hi, is it me or is it really impossible to fly above a certain altitude?

I don t seem to be able to reach any speeds above 250 MPH in MY P47 when flying above 7500 mt (25k ft). I ve also noticed that the Me262 isn t able to go above the b17, he just keeps trying to climb and can t.. an easy kill...

Is somkething wrong here?

Oleg? I hope the Ace AP will fix this, otherwise there s no reason to have all these Us planes when they have to stay low with the T&B yaks.

JHAT

JHAT__
02-16-2004, 12:19 AM
Hi, is it me or is it really impossible to fly above a certain altitude?

I don t seem to be able to reach any speeds above 250 MPH in MY P47 when flying above 7500 mt (25k ft). I ve also noticed that the Me262 isn t able to go above the b17, he just keeps trying to climb and can t.. an easy kill...

Is somkething wrong here?

Oleg? I hope the Ace AP will fix this, otherwise there s no reason to have all these Us planes when they have to stay low with the T&B yaks.

JHAT

VW-IceFire
02-16-2004, 07:41 AM
Well the more extreme high altitudes are apparently not working the way they are supposed to. Its been fixed time and time again in patches but its just never really gotten to the right point for accuracy. Even the B-17's cannot maintain the proper bombing altitude that they'd normally use.

This game's engine was designed as a low level tactical simulator of the IL-2 only. Then fighters got added and then high altitude fighters and so on. So high altitude was never a priority until much later on...we're kinda stuck with it so I've modified my missions to make sure that B-17's are a bit lower so that interceptions can properly take place. Even so...the average Western front airbattles took place at 20,000 feet which is about 6,100 meters which is still OK territory for FB. I think its something like 30,000 feet is about 11,500 meters...up there only a few aircraft were operating normally...

So the American planes are not forced into turning and burning with Yaks on the deck although most dogfight servers feature this. Head up to 6,100 meters and thats where a P-51 and a P-47 are going to be moderately happy.

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p1ngu666
02-16-2004, 07:53 AM
be nearer 9000 i think http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

AFJ_Locust
02-16-2004, 08:44 AM
I can get my p47 up near 11,500m ez

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

JHAT__
02-16-2004, 08:52 AM
The P47 flies alright at 33000 ft (10 k mt) except it doesn t accelerate or flys faster than 250 mph. I m conecerned though about the whole thing. It doesn t matter if you can get the P47 up high but can t have me262 there too or B17 that won t fly right.

JorBR
02-16-2004, 10:03 AM
Post by Oleg Maddox 29-01-04 02:34

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=712109571

â˜Dear user,

FM is comlex thing... Aerodynamics behaviour of the plane changes with altitude very much. At high altitude the air dencity is way lower than on close to sea level altitudes. So the plane should be controlled very gentle comparing to low altitudes. Say turn times became much greater, maneuverability became much worse, etc... The stalls and spins will be more dangereous than on SL... Much more dangerous! And climb rate will be zero at maximal rated altitude for the given aircraft... You can ask it all real pilots, that will confirm that we model physics of that law very correct. There are more than 40 real pilots in our internal tests...

Really its not FM, its a laws of the physics.
Its why was better the prop planes with long wings at altitude - Ta-152, various of MiG's design aircraft(not serial), some of projected 109s modifications, etc for example

Some planes that were able to fly at 10 km and higher altitude duet to good superchargers were almost uncontrolable in terms of maneuverability on these altitudes. High speed of the plane doesn't means good maneuverability on high altitudes automatically. For good and situable maneuverability were designed very special aircraft (see above). From that point of view we model it very correct, simply becasue we model that physics of low air dencity at these altitudes.

Also in IL-2 and FB 3D world we model the changes of air dencity only till 10 km altitude. Higher it is constant due to limit of that engine. Its becaseu in original project were not planned any of coming later aircraft. But trust me there were not any real battles at altitudes higher than 10 km....
The new 3D physics world will be done only in the completely new sim. There will will not limit that world by 10 km altitude.

Speaking above, please try to read the descriptions of WWII pilots about where was beginning the dogfight(means Fighter vs Fighter) and where it was finished in terms of altitudes... Right, beginning on high and ended on low... Why do you think?
(you can read it with little attention in almost every recalls of German and Alies pilots for example.... Just apply for these recals the laws of physics)â'

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

Maple_Tiger
02-16-2004, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JHAT__:
The P47 flies alright at 33000 ft (10 k mt) except it doesn t accelerate or flys faster than 250 mph. I m conecerned though about the whole thing. It doesn t matter if you can get the P47 up high but can t have me262 there too or B17 that won t fly right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think i understand what is going on JHAT.

Your looking at the IAS inside the cockpit, wich is in MPH. But what you have to realize is that at 0km 250MPH IAS is 250MPH TAS. At 10km the TAS will much higher.

Try this for a test. Keep externals on. Take your P-47 for a spin again in the QMB. This time use what i call Wonder women veiw. To use this press CTRL+F1. Once there youl have a new vew.

In this vew you can see the TAS(True Air Speed) indicator, It will be in KMH though. You can also see the Speed bar wich is in KMH. But the Speed bar is IAS(Indicated Air Speed).

Now the higher you go youl notice that TAS will be higher then the IAS. Hence, if your at 9100m, your IAS at 400kmh, then your TAS will be like 675kmh.

I also just ran a test just see if i was close and also to help myself better understand you.

I noticed that 400kmh IAS was = to 675kmh TAS and i also went back to cockpit veiw and noticed the IAS in MPH was at 250.

D10's top speed at alt is 9,000m = 697kmh TAS.

D27's top speed at alt is 9,100m = 689kmh TAS.

The P-47 will be slightly slower at 10km altitude, but not by much mayby like 5kmh TAS i think.

The Wonder Women veiw also helps you see if your flying straight and level. It normally take me atleast 1.5hours to run propper speed tests and thats only at one altitude.

1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pd6c878f0006c224805da6c9645408b41/fb291d3e.jpg

JHAT__
02-16-2004, 02:00 PM
HI,

Thanks for the replies, I thought it had something to do with the air being thinner up there and not working on the pitot right... I ll fly like the wonderwoman (invisible plane, got it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) and see how it s different regarding speeds.

What still bothers me is the 262 just flying under the b17 at 25000 ft.

I ve seen some guncamera videos and I saw what Oleg means with the starting high, ending loow thing...

These two last replies pretty much explain it all, I don t want to be an astronaut anyways http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


JHAT

Maple_Tiger
02-16-2004, 04:36 PM
Max speed for the Me262 was at 6,000m = 872kmh TAS. Ceiling was only 11,500.

P-47's Ceiling was at 12,800m.

B-17's Ceiling was at 10,851m.

I usualy set the B-17s to an altitude of 7,000m. In one coop i have, 4 Me262's atack three flights of bombers. I Have the Me262's air start at 9,000m. Usualy one of the B-17's gets taken out, some times two of them.

I have 2 Me262's come in from behind the last flight of B-17's and 2 Me262 come in from the side or the 6 high of the first flight of bombers.

Lots of fun for the guys in the P-51's lol. Challanging when there are no icons.

1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pd6c878f0006c224805da6c9645408b41/fb291d3e.jpg