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View Full Version : Never use Templars again, get rid of them.



ConanTheLeader
03-24-2016, 11:08 AM
The game should do away with the Templar enemy. It's been a fun conspiracy in the early days of the franchise but it gets dull after a while that a group of assassins always seem to have only one enemy.

Long time series of fans might not like the idea of the Templars going away but it's off putting to new comers and going to a wikipedia article or watching a youtube video won't cut it when there's tons of other games that are available which want attention like Far Cry Primal for example. If you have to go online and do research for the story you might find it intimidating and maybe you just want to purchase something straight away.

Each Assassin's Creed game can continue as it does, a different location in a different time period but make each game self contained by removing all modern day and Templar related plot. When I go back and play older AC games I hate playing Desmond, it's not why I got the game originally and after trying to play Syndicate from the view point of a new comer, it's a mess. Barely anything is explained.

Some forum posters might say "deal with it" but in response, people are by not buying the game and that's a contributing factor into declining sales. So keep saying "deal with it" as it continues a downward spiral.

MikeFNY
03-24-2016, 01:14 PM
I'm not entirely sure "deal with it" would be an appropriate answer especially since yes, I believe many are staying away from AC due to the large amount of information coming from the previous games, in Wikias, articles, etc.

I understand the point you are trying to make and since the new game is supposed to be a "fresh" start, who knows, maybe we might see a drastic change like the one you're suggesting.

Having said that, I wouldn't eliminate the Templars and modern day just like that, ultimately they have been a key part of the series so far.

They need to be improved though, especially the modern day.

ze_topazio
03-24-2016, 03:45 PM
https://cleanupjamaicaqueens.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/your-idea-sucks.jpg

cawatrooper9
03-24-2016, 03:57 PM
Deal with it.





Joking, of course. Honestly, I don't think stepping a little away from the Templars is a bad thing, at least for a game or two.
There are other factions at play- sages, TWCB, even the Pythagoreans in the DaVinci Disappearance were pretty refreshing.

If it makes you feel any better, the widely speculated Egypt game won't likely have Templars, at least not in their traditional form.

But the series is definitely about the relationship between the two groups. It might even be interesting for the series to pull an Arkham Origins, and make it seem like a new faction is at play, only to completely throw the Assassins into despair when they realize the Templars (who may or may not have been thought wiped out) were behind it the entire time.

Sushiglutton
03-24-2016, 07:15 PM
#NeverTemp


I've suggested before to remove all assassin/templar stuff completely and make the games self contained (like say a Robin Hood game), so I kind of support you.

VestigialLlama4
03-24-2016, 08:05 PM
The original Assassin's Creed game was this introspective game about "truth" and "illusion". The game was about the "Assassin's Creed" rather than the Assassins as the organization. So you can say fundamentally, that is to say if you go to the roots...so long as the game is about the Creed itself, about what "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted" means, whether you can live up to it or not...so long as you do that, the games don't even have to feature Assassins, as Black Flag proved since most of the game is about Edward Kenway the Pirate.

In any case, already in AC1: the main bad guy, the final boss was Al Mualim himself...that is the mentor of the Assassins. Now you can say that Al Mualim was a Templar all along and he's "No True Assassin" but the fact is Al Mualim backstabbed the Templars too and he had an independent agenda.

I will say that the game's recycling the same plot of Kill X Templars and Achieve Open World Peace gets tiring and associating the Templars with all the bad things removes or dials down the ideological questions and lowers the stakes.

Kuiperdolin
03-25-2016, 11:08 AM
There have been some non-Templars enemies over the years :
- Savonarole
- the Hermeticists
- The Instruments of the First Will / sages
- King Washington

The community's reaction to those has been tepid at best so...

RinoTheBouncer
03-25-2016, 12:46 PM
The game should do away with the Templar enemy. It's been a fun conspiracy in the early days of the franchise but it gets dull after a while that a group of assassins always seem to have only one enemy.

Long time series of fans might not like the idea of the Templars going away but it's off putting to new comers and going to a wikipedia article or watching a youtube video won't cut it when there's tons of other games that are available which want attention like Far Cry Primal for example. If you have to go online and do research for the story you might find it intimidating and maybe you just want to purchase something straight away.

Each Assassin's Creed game can continue as it does, a different location in a different time period but make each game self contained by removing all modern day and Templar related plot. When I go back and play older AC games I hate playing Desmond, it's not why I got the game originally and after trying to play Syndicate from the view point of a new comer, it's a mess. Barely anything is explained.

Some forum posters might say "deal with it" but in response, people are by not buying the game and that's a contributing factor into declining sales. So keep saying "deal with it" as it continues a downward spiral.

The Templars are the very foundation and the longtime antagonist of the entire franchise. They're just as essential as the Assassins. I think you can't have one without the other. Otherwise, it would just be Assassins battling nobody. And that is not the case.

People are buying the game. Those who stepped away are either disappointed by the quality of the latest installments in terms of story-telling. So if anything, it's the lack of progress to the overarching story that's putting people off. The games have always been very newcomer friendly, so nobody really is struggling. Besides, it's not only the Templars that have a long story that's requiring people to find YouTube videos and fan sites to explain their existence, almost everything about the games has its foundations based in the first 2-3 games so by your logic, the whole franchise must be rebooted in each new installments, and that is not possible for a franchise that laid its foundations on story-telling and cliffhangers.

Imagine it like a TV show, you either watch it and catch up with the events, either by watching old episodes or reading online, or you simply just step away from it. They can't make each new episode a fresh new start. It's simply not suitable for such type of game.

There are fan sites, wikis, videos and lots of sources to catch up with information, if somebody has other things today, that simply isn't Ubisoft's problem nor the fans'. Again, just like a T.V. series, they can't keep repeating your the ideas with every new episode, nor can they reboot with each new installment. Besides, Ubisoft might re-release the old games as a remastered package, which will help newcomers to catch up with whatever they've missed. So there are so many better solutions that to do away with a massive chunk of the games' main antagonists and the lore.

Sorrosyss
03-25-2016, 02:20 PM
The Templars and Assassins are the polar opposites of the ideologies central to the series. Their war has waged since the fall of the Isu. The only other logical threat would be the Isu, or their return, so I really can't see a point to trying to replace a group who are essential to the narrative.

Besides, there are far more pressing issues that are contributing to the declining sales than the presence of the Templars. For one, the QA of the series is probably the worst offender at this point, with Unity and Syndicate littered with technical issues.

ERICATHERINE
03-25-2016, 04:51 PM
The Templars are the very foundation and the longtime antagonist of the entire franchise. They're just as essential as the Assassins. I think you can't have one without the other. Otherwise, it would just be Assassins battling nobody. And that is not the case.

People are buying the game. Those who stepped away are either disappointed by the quality of the latest installments in terms of story-telling. So if anything, it's the lack of progress to the overarching story that's putting people off. The games have always been very newcomer friendly, so nobody really is struggling. Besides, it's not only the Templars that have a long story that's requiring people to find YouTube videos and fan sites to explain their existence, almost everything about the games has its foundations based in the first 2-3 games so by your logic, the whole franchise must be rebooted in each new installments, and that is not possible for a franchise that laid its foundations on story-telling and cliffhangers.

Imagine it like a TV show, you either watch it and catch up with the events, either by watching old episodes or reading online, or you simply just step away from it. They can't make each new episode a fresh new start. It's simply not suitable for such type of game.

There are fan sites, wikis, videos and lots of sources to catch up with information, if somebody has other things today, that simply isn't Ubisoft's problem nor the fans'. Again, just like a T.V. series, they can't keep repeating your the ideas with every new episode, nor can they reboot with each new installment. Besides, Ubisoft might re-release the old games as a remastered package, which will help newcomers to catch up with whatever they've missed. So there are so many better solutions that to do away with a massive chunk of the games' main antagonists and the lore.

This ...


The Templars and Assassins are the polar opposites of the ideologies central to the series. Their war has waged since the fall of the Isu. The only other logical threat would be the Isu, or their return, so I really can't see a point to trying to replace a group who are essential to the narrative.

Besides, there are far more pressing issues that are contributing to the declining sales than the presence of the Templars. For one, the QA of the series is probably the worst offender at this point, with Unity and Syndicate littered with technical issues.

... and this. ^-^

MikeFNY
03-26-2016, 08:26 AM
The Templars and Assassins are the polar opposites of the ideologies central to the series. Their war has waged since the fall of the Isu. The only other logical threat would be the Isu, or their return, so I really can't see a point to trying to replace a group who are essential to the narrative.

Besides, there are far more pressing issues that are contributing to the declining sales than the presence of the Templars. For one, the QA of the series is probably the worst offender at this point, with Unity and Syndicate littered with technical issues.

True, but it's not that Syndicate didn't try to deviate from this ideology.

Ultimately it's not about the brotherhood or a group of Assassins, but the Rooks.

And the Templar-controlled gang has its own unique name as well.

Granted, the templars and assassins are behind the scenes of what goes on but it's just a name. Both the templars and assassins don't have their unique identity anymore.

joshoolhorst
03-26-2016, 02:43 PM
The Templars are the very foundation and the longtime antagonist of the entire franchise. They're just as essential as the Assassins. I think you can't have one without the other. Otherwise, it would just be Assassins battling nobody. And that is not the case.

People are buying the game. Those who stepped away are either disappointed by the quality of the latest installments in terms of story-telling. So if anything, it's the lack of progress to the overarching story that's putting people off. The games have always been very newcomer friendly, so nobody really is struggling. Besides, it's not only the Templars that have a long story that's requiring people to find YouTube videos and fan sites to explain their existence, almost everything about the games has its foundations based in the first 2-3 games so by your logic, the whole franchise must be rebooted in each new installments, and that is not possible for a franchise that laid its foundations on story-telling and cliffhangers.

Imagine it like a TV show, you either watch it and catch up with the events, either by watching old episodes or reading online, or you simply just step away from it. They can't make each new episode a fresh new start. It's simply not suitable for such type of game.

There are fan sites, wikis, videos and lots of sources to catch up with information, if somebody has other things today, that simply isn't Ubisoft's problem nor the fans'. Again, just like a T.V. series, they can't keep repeating your the ideas with every new episode, nor can they reboot with each new installment. Besides, Ubisoft might re-release the old games as a remastered package, which will help newcomers to catch up with whatever they've missed. So there are so many better solutions that to do away with a massive chunk of the games' main antagonists and the lore.

This! this is what annoys me. I'm sorry but it feels like for me ''everything you knew is kinda for nothing '' the only reason why I probably watched/played Syndicate and Unity was out of obligation to the series.

Fury074ubi
03-27-2016, 06:52 PM
They could always pick an enemy who would at best be very loosely connected to the Templars. So loosely, that you could barely see the connections.

Like for example, an AC game taking place in Japan, which was purposely isolationist and probably wouldn't be all that connected to the Templars. You could have the Assassin faction who likely came over from either China or Portugal, find these new Templars coming into Japan and freaking out, but the main threat will still be the main government of Japan which is the main power in the game. Either the Tokugawa Shogunate during the Meiji Restoration, or Nobunaga Oda during the Waring States Period, as these two eras were rife with conflicts and, more importantly to a game with the word 'assassin' in it's title; assassinations.

RinoTheBouncer
03-28-2016, 12:09 AM
This! this is what annoys me. I'm sorry but it feels like for me ''everything you knew is kinda for nothing '' the only reason why I probably watched/played Syndicate and Unity was out of obligation to the series.

Yes. It makes me feel unrewarded. Because me and many fans like me spend a lot of time reading through AC encyclopedias, look through concept artists' websites, tweet developers, take part in lifestreams to and Twitter Q&As or even attend video game events to ask questions about the story and its progress, all that just to understand everything properly and to speculate future events, based on ideas left in the shape of hints and or easter eggs or clues. So to get the next game and see that none of the things you expected to see are there, and there's next to zero progress to the story you're following, you feel totally unrewarded.

I know the fresh new experience might be good on its own, but sometimes, you just wanna know what's happening with the story you care about, rather than hearing a whole different one. It's like watching a TV Show and suddenly, the channel cuts of the broadest and replaces it with a film. Like, okay, the film is good, but what about my favorite show?

Jessigirl2013
03-28-2016, 02:39 PM
Another "I want AC to completely change because blah blah blah...." thread :rolleyes:

I wont bother explaining why that will never happen as it seems everyone else has already stated why.:cool: