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I_Main_ThIQ
03-18-2016, 02:29 PM
We are already down with Two buff pieces in! The progression is great, and soon to be perfect! Here's to ducking!

MADE A FEW CHANGES TO WHAT THE COMMUNITY WOULD PERCEIVE AS GOOD. CRITICISM IS THE BEST TO FIND PERFECTION! CHANGES MADE IN RED! ALL OLD TEXT WILL BE MADE BOLD AND BLUE!

http://static9.cdn.ubi.com/resource/en-US/game/rainbow6/siege/news_tachanka_profile_229016.jpg
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Alexsandr "Tachanka" Senaviev is a wonderful Weak but fierce character, coming off of his Russian roots, with his practice on a Degtyaryov DP-28 7.62x54mm R-Stationary.
Ironically though, as amazing as his LMG is, We're missing Certain things that cause it to be good.

Missing Things such as

Supression** (To be thought out)
Smaller required area for placement
Ducking mechanic
Placing on Reinforced floors



Supression ideals can be found here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1413523-Give-Tachanka-MMG-suppression-effect?p=11495558#\
The Supression explained in the post is as in-depth as it gets. The point of it to completely breakdown your view by blurring it, either impair your hearing by the sound of it being really piercing, or generally obstructing your vision with its force. loud against a wall or passing by a covered enemy, whether defender or attacker, depending on the circumstances. Could cause a slow effect. Possibly reducing accuracy on characters using shields, or just those nearby. Flinching is a thing. The MMG should cause flinching upon anyone as they ADS. This is generally aimed towards shields as they can withstand too many shots, to end up just headshotting Tachanka within an instant. No flinches, no shield parries. This should be a thing.

Smaller Req. for placement is required, as there are little okays and many forbidden.
This is the current size of placement needed (and it took a little bit of positioning to get it!)
http://i.imgur.com/M5CzhBe.jpg

EXAMPLES: http://imgur.com/a/NR65C This album is full of examples of maps like Hereford Base, House, and Oregon. These are spots that it should fit/should fit without positioning it precisely. This causes people not to pick Tachanka as his gadget makes him practically bad. Kapkan would be picked over him as Kap has Nitrocell.

The Ducking mechanic.
https://coubsecure-a.akamaihd.net/get/b91/p/coub/simple/cw_timeline_pic/762addbe508/6a1fbba22346dd0f652ff/med_1446223847_image.jpg

As seen in this picture, Tachanka is merely looking upwards causing himself to squat. But, this isn't anywhere near what we all desire on Tachanka. If he could duck down almost right under Deployable Shield level, then it would make his game much stronger. And this is from anywhere he looks. This includes an animation that applies to anyone and everyone who uses the DP-28. Hell, why not just apply a ton of Accuracy negations Hell, what it could even be possible to just apply Negated Accuracy and have the mechanic to blind fire it? (yet that sounds absolutely stupid as 1 hit headshots are a thing.) It doesn't have to fire, as this is only a suggestion that could put all players in a mark of safety if it comes down to certain circumstances. If it looks to some that ducking looks impossible as he is already semi-crouching when on the gun, he could just move his head down to the left or right. No matter to it at all.
It would give this scenario much more possibilities
http://i.imgur.com/OzOwfYo.jpg

So as it comes to it, Tachanka has multiple flaws. So many feel like so few, which can be fixed. Niche. Anymore things should be utilized well.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-18-2016, 05:41 PM
Bump

JojoTheSlayer
03-19-2016, 05:23 PM
My thoughts:
Suppression [effects]? No, it doesnt suit the game in my view. Suppression is more valid in long range games were snipers have a unfair advantage compared to MGs since there is no risk of losing ones own life in a video game and so on... The turret ingame can already suppress if you actually suppress in a delaying manner. Of course, facing good ACOG users that use lag compensation tactics, it might not work and you should therefor be used to doing one long suppression burst before getting off the gun. Avoiding incoming headshots from a player you dont see on your end.

Smaller deploy area? Sure, might work without being too trolley or OP.

Ducking mechanic? No, i see it as ether to slow to be useful or wacko mole like ******ed. The aim up or to the side to get your body behind cover works similarly anyway without having extra animations added to the game.

Placing on Reinforced floors? No, that would be a troll tactic. People not intending to use the turret. Placing down metal first and then the turret on top. I am fine with barbed wire stack, but not this kind of stacking.

SMH
03-19-2016, 05:36 PM
Yes, please allow us to be fully behind cover and fire our weapon at the enemy with 100% accuracy (i.e. ADS).

It's completely balanced, isn't it?

easy_target77
03-19-2016, 06:07 PM
Just make the placement more flexible and the weapon itself more powerful. Maybe being able to penetrate reinforcements (or shields).

FMM-Badea
03-19-2016, 06:36 PM
ducking mechanic.... noooooooooooo... not where 1 shot headshots are a thing.... you want the enemy to see and shoot you center mass in rook plates

Infarlock
03-19-2016, 07:26 PM
The suppression effect will be really stupid and ******ed, many people disliked it in BF series, that's why you saw mods for BF3 having no suppression (on the cracked version of the game, which I downloaded just to try).

I think the gun should deploy a small shield from it, like a round shield with a cubic hole for eye sight, the top part of the head will still be visible, and the legs too.
That's just my opinion, the suppression idea is just not good enough.

Defami8
03-19-2016, 10:53 PM
How about you just make the machine gun like glaz's weapon, not a deployable? you move slower and lose accuracy if you aren't in prone position.

when you go prone you automatically deploy it for reduced recoil etc...

SMH
03-20-2016, 12:11 AM
How about you just make the machine gun like glaz's weapon, not a deployable? you move slower and lose accuracy if you aren't in prone position.

when you go prone you automatically deploy it for reduced recoil etc...

How about the idea that attackers have to move inside the building, while defenders are spawned inside it?

Fuze and IQ have LMGs to make some covering fire for the entries, while Tachanka has MMG to suppress everyone.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:40 AM
My thoughts:
Suppression [effects]? No, it doesnt suit the game in my view. Suppression is more valid in long range games were snipers have a unfair advantage compared to MGs since there is no risk of losing ones own life in a video game and so on... The turret ingame can already suppress if you actually suppress in a delaying manner. Of course, facing good ACOG users that use lag compensation tactics, it might not work and you should therefor be used to doing one long suppression burst before getting off the gun. Avoiding incoming headshots from a player you dont see on your end.

Smaller deploy area? Sure, might work without being too trolley or OP.

Ducking mechanic? No, i see it as ether to slow to be useful or wacko mole like ******ed. The aim up or to the side to get your body behind cover works similarly anyway without having extra animations added to the game.

Placing on Reinforced floors? No, that would be a troll tactic. People not intending to use the turret. Placing down metal first and then the turret on top. I am fine with barbed wire stack, but not this kind of stacking.



1. The Suppression could just be much more threatening then. I mean, kinda like, who cares if it weren't implemented?

2. Think about it. Think about what you just said. Do you believe I meant that it should be *that* Small of a deploy space?

3. The ducking mechanic should be implemented as a thought to why he should be able to DODGE. That's pretty ****ing stupid to think it shouldnt be implemented. So what if he dodges? throw a nade. Still not helping? ash that ****ing shield. Is it that hard to really see it as a good buff? He can't move, and neither can anyone else. I cannot accept this opinion out of all of your opinions. but I do like how well thought out it was.

4. There should be no reason not to have it. Placing it on top, just to be safe in whatever spot you wish it to be, so you don't lose the gun. and if it were used otherwise to block attackers, just melee it like 3 times or something, lmao.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:44 AM
Yes, please allow us to be fully behind cover and fire our weapon at the enemy with 100% accuracy (i.e. ADS).

It's completely balanced, isn't it?

You've read wrong, again. As I said, once more, "Hell, why not just apply a ton of Accuracy negations and have the mechanic to blind fire it? (yet that sounds absolutely stupid as 1 hit headshots are a thing.)" This doesn't perceive as in to "PLEASE DO THIS". This is just an example to what could be done, giving a **** ton of who knows where the bullets go. It doesn't even have to fire if he ducks. His view would be completely contracted.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:49 AM
Just make the placement more flexible and the weapon itself more powerful. Maybe being able to penetrate reinforcements (or shields).

You sir make it sound easier than perceived. It wouldn't really do much to his choosings as people wouldn't want to play someone who would get headshotted without even knowing it was coming.
I try to avoid the idea of penetrating reinforcements or shields because in pro play or even in logic, it wouldn't make much sense. sure the shields stop force of explosions, (which comes down to my c4 thread which got shot out of the sky by a sir NoobZ), or some small caliber bullets, but the shields shown in the game take harder shells. for sure, We wouldn't need to have a shield breaker, and more of a lock-down.
But thank you for your input sir :)

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:55 AM
ducking mechanic.... noooooooooooo... not where 1 shot headshots are a thing.... you want the enemy to see and shoot you center mass in rook plates

I'll just say what I have to, and that it would be only to what I understand.


Sir, a ducking mechanic for everyone to use among the weapon that can be countered by any sort of grenade/explosive/shield come up that can even be caught off guard from opponents shooting above. There is no reason at all to sit still and have some player just shoot your head out of nowhere because some Tachanka was trying to do his job locking down an area. I had said it to another poster, and I'll say it to you. "Hell, why not just apply a ton of Accuracy negations and have the mechanic to blind fire it? (yet that sounds absolutely stupid as 1 hit headshots are a thing.)"I'll do my best to explain this. If you duck and decide to fire the gun, the accuracy would go to hell, and all the bullets would just *Fwomp!*. If you get the picture, it would be a horrid risk. And anyone could do it. meaning if a Tachanka were to make the mistake of placing it in a room where enemies are near, and he were to die, after being locked down, the enemy could do what he did. duck and fire. stay safe and peek when the time is right. This applies to defenders and attackers.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:59 AM
The suppression effect will be really stupid and ******ed, many people disliked it in BF series, that's why you saw mods for BF3 having no suppression (on the cracked version of the game, which I downloaded just to try).

I think the gun should deploy a small shield from it, like a round shield with a cubic hole for eye sight, the top part of the head will still be visible, and the legs too.
That's just my opinion, the suppression idea is just not good enough.

Sir, I understand, I really do. I mean, even I hated the effect alot. But coming off of alot of shooters, that aren't CoD, We realize that bullets by force or by harsh sound can cause visual impairment or sound impairment. I'd prefer sound impairment, or just shock. Even if it wasnt in the game, I wouldn't care.

Also, your idea is well thought out! But as other people has offered the idea... Well... It just doesn't add up. Wouldn't work well. I would look kinda stupid, to impair his vision even more on the gun. Hence the Ducking mechanic! :)

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 05:01 AM
How about the idea that attackers have to move inside the building, while defenders are spawned inside it?

Fuze and IQ have LMGs to make some covering fire for the entries, while Tachanka has MMG to suppress everyone.

+1!! +1!! To you NoobZ. Oh my lord this is just. this. I wouldn't have expected a skilled man of Criticism to have the humor that makes a audience boom a roar of laughter!.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p4A271m0q6I/UYGcl9ZUZ9I/AAAAAAAAATo/nKENU8z88hg/s1600/plus1.png

The__Pretender
03-20-2016, 05:21 AM
1st thing that needs to happens is make his gun require a smaller space for placement so it can be placed in better location. Then analyze the stats and add some other ideas like ducking, etc... If he still sucks and nobody is using him.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 05:42 AM
1st thing that needs to happens is make his gun require a smaller space for placement so it can be placed in better location. Then analyze the stats and add some other ideas like ducking, etc... If he still sucks and nobody is using him.


Thank you for calling out what has already been typed out for you and everyone else. Is it not clear that I said it needs smaller placement required? as in not being a whale it is? :o

JustBoneBrook
03-20-2016, 07:49 AM
I know suppress is not popular but what i mean whit this is just more felling you can negate enemie peak.
For exemple i was fighting a shield enemie i shoot like 30 bullet in his shield. Than he peak his head (super small head)
and he just shot me whit his ADS head shot like i was shoting some paintball bullet or someting that why i think the suppress would be nice.

Finally by suppress I mean Reduce the accuracy of the enemie. (I don't care if it not blury) what I care is you should not be able to shot a tachanka after he should you.
My only prob whit this MMG is the lack of reduction of accuracy to the enemie.

The other Idea i got was may be More bullet in his mags so I can suppress alot more whitout the fear of his reload.

I just don't think a Ducking mechanic or a smaller space for placement would help him much.
Sure Ducking mechanic would be fun to troll enemie but other than that they just have to wait and shot your head whene it come out.

SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 02:00 PM
I know suppress is not popular but what i mean whit this is just more felling you can negate enemie peak.
For exemple i was fighting a shield enemie i shoot like 30 bullet in his shield. Than he peak his head (super small head)
and he just shot me whit his ADS head shot like i was shoting some paintball bullet or someting that why i think the suppress would be nice.

Finally by suppress I mean Reduce the accuracy of the enemie. (I don't care if it not blury) what I care is you should not be able to shot a tachanka after he should you.
My only prob whit this MMG is the lack of reduction of accuracy to the enemie.

The other Idea i got was may be More bullet in his mags so I can suppress alot more whitout the fear of his reload.

I just don't think a Ducking mechanic or a smaller space for placement would help him much.
Sure Ducking mechanic would be fun to troll enemie but other than that they just have to wait and shot your head whene it come out.

SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH.

Thanks for your input, friend. I understand what you mean, because it's still readable.

But on topic, you should realize it already does destroy accuracy for a shield. and if they do aim, it flinches them. Thanks though :)

SMH
03-20-2016, 02:30 PM
I've learned to write the way I speak and speak the way I write. So when I see things like this

http://i.imgur.com/6vJtskg.png

I think of it as very erratic, unpredictable behavior, much like a child trying to convince adults that his crazy idea without any reason should work.


It may be a great idea, and it might benefit many, but by typing in such a way you only accent the reader's attention to underlined, italicized, boldened, or coloured text. And that text loses its context, making your whole idea meaningless.

Now, please, calm down, assemble your thoughts in one strong center, and approach the conversation as the adults you are. Maybe my one-shot rhetoric question sparked this behavior (in which case I apologize!), but I intend it to stop here and now.

The__Pretender
03-20-2016, 02:40 PM
Thank you for calling out what has already been typed out for you and everyone else. Is it not clear that I said it needs smaller placement required? as in not being a whale it is? :o

And where did I say you didn't mention this? What I am saying is start with reducing the area needed for placement. This may be all that is needed to balance him out. Then after a couple of months look at the stats and go from there.

And btw don't act like smaller placement is your original idea. People have been taking about that since the beta.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:34 PM
I've learned to write the way I speak and speak the way I write. So when I see things like this

http://i.imgur.com/6vJtskg.png

I think of it as very erratic, unpredictable behavior, much like a child trying to convince adults that his crazy idea without any reason should work.


It may be a great idea, and it might benefit many, but by typing in such a way you only accent the reader's attention to underlined, italicized, boldened, or coloured text. And that text loses its context, making your whole idea meaningless.

Now, please, calm down, assemble your thoughts in one strong center, and approach the conversation as the adults you are. Maybe my one-shot rhetoric question sparked this behavior (in which case I apologize!), but I intend it to stop here and now.

I don't think it's me whom has a problem. I'm replying to everyone as a poster should. If you've got a problem with it, and even more, cannot post things on topic, then be gone. No offense if you feel so.

And don't you worry, I am calm.

Have a good afternoon, NoobZ. :)

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:35 PM
And where did I say you didn't mention this? What I am saying is start with reducing the area needed for placement. This may be all that is needed to balance him out. Then after a couple of months look at the stats and go from there.

And btw don't act like smaller placement is your original idea. People have been taking about that since the beta.

Never considered it my own idea.
But I appreciate your opinions. Thanks. :)

SMH
03-20-2016, 04:43 PM
I don't think it's me whom has a problem. I'm replying to everyone as a poster should. If you've got a problem with it, and even more, cannot post things on topic, then be gone. No offense if you feel so.

And don't you worry, I am calm.

Have a good afternoon, NoobZ. :)

I address your way of replying rather than the replying itself. By the way, you can multi-quote to reduce the amount of posts you make. The multi-quote button is at the lower-right corner of every post.

I don't really think multicolouring your text and making it a bigger size shows you from a better perspective, if you do it on consistent basis.

(tip: bossing me doesn't work ;) I know what I came here for)

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 04:46 PM
I address your way of replying rather than the replying itself. By the way, you can multi-quote to reduce the amount of posts you make. The multi-quote button is at the lower-right corner of every post.

I don't really think multicolouring your text and making it a bigger size shows you from a better perspective, if you do it on consistent basis.

(tip: bossing me doesn't work ;) I know what I came here for)

It doesn't do anything for me. I just enjoy making my text as so. I don't care if it isn't as appealing.

And I hadn't planned on bossing you.

and I'm pretty trash at multi quotes.

I'll recap myself at where I had said if it's off topic, don't.

Have a good day, NoobZ. Once again, sir.

SMH
03-20-2016, 05:07 PM
I'm replying to everyone as a poster should.

A smart poster cares about the recipient. What purpose does your post serve if its intended idea is misunderstood?


It doesn't do anything for me. I just enjoy making my text as so. I don't care if it isn't as appealing.

And I hadn't planned on bossing you.

and I'm pretty trash at multi quotes.

I'll recap myself at where I had said if it's off topic, don't.

Have a good day, NoobZ. Once again, sir.

Well, here you go, grasp this:

How can you presume to know and be well aware of strengths and weaknesses of an operator when your experience with the game is so limited?

See, for example, I've played at least an hour with every operator in my roster, and since maximum round time is 4min, you can presume I've had at least 15 rounds played with every single operator.

Casual and Ranked alike, I tend to think outside the box, apply the operator to conditions it doesn't seem to be fitting to. Together with that, if I believe that the default playstyle for that operator is more appropriate within the meta, I follow it.

Needless to say, I'm a poor Thermite, Blitz, Sledge, and Thatcher. But boy can I tell you a story on Glaz, Fuze, Buck, Ash, IQ, and Montagne!

However, although I'm bad at using the before mentioned Thermite and company, I know what I need from them, and I trust teammates who claim to be good with them.

Now, although I've played only 12h with Tachanka, I know his default setting: in a nest, with barbed wire, right next to a roamer luring the enemies to him, making a lot of noise.

So tell me now: besides having a tad smaller footprint (maybe 2/3 of Mute's jammer radius), is there really anything needed to make that default more effective without introducing new features and disrupting the overall balance? I believe not.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 08:09 PM
A smart poster cares about the recipient. What purpose does your post serve if its intended idea is misunderstood?



Well, here you go, grasp this:

How can you presume to know and be well aware of strengths and weaknesses of an operator when your experience with the game is so limited?

See, for example, I've played at least an hour with every operator in my roster, and since maximum round time is 4min, you can presume I've had at least 15 rounds played with every single operator.

Casual and Ranked alike, I tend to think outside the box, apply the operator to conditions it doesn't seem to be fitting to. Together with that, if I believe that the default playstyle for that operator is more appropriate within the meta, I follow it.

Needless to say, I'm a poor Thermite, Blitz, Sledge, and Thatcher. But boy can I tell you a story on Glaz, Fuze, Buck, Ash, IQ, and Montagne!

However, although I'm bad at using the before mentioned Thermite and company, I know what I need from them, and I trust teammates who claim to be good with them.

Now, although I've played only 12h with Tachanka, I know his default setting: in a nest, with barbed wire, right next to a roamer luring the enemies to him, making a lot of noise.

So tell me now: besides having a tad smaller footprint (maybe 2/3 of Mute's jammer radius), is there really anything needed to make that default more effective without introducing new features and disrupting the overall balance? I believe not.

Wouldn't really disrupt any balance. Would just increase the strength. I understand the scene you had layed out, but on an entire different setting. Honestly, That isn't gonna do much. I dont think anyone would just follow a roamer or look for one to just get lured into a trap. It's a really healthy move though. But it'll only work in games that are low rank/casual. These mechanics keep him stationary, alive, and able to do more. It even pushes a better ideal movement on other operators to work with him, or to use him for their better. both attackers or defenders. As it seems, we're both stubborn to what we believe.

Also, I really like how you mapped out the few characters that arent stapled into teams apart from Ash.
Kudoes to your play of that.

SMH
03-20-2016, 08:43 PM
Wouldn't really disrupt any balance. Would just increase the strength. I understand the scene you had layed out, but on an entire different setting. Honestly, That isn't gonna do much. I dont think anyone would just follow a roamer or look for one to just get lured into a trap. It's a really healthy move though. But it'll only work in games that are low rank/casual. These mechanics keep him stationary, alive, and able to do more. It even pushes a better ideal movement on other operators to work with him, or to use him for their better. both attackers or defenders. As it seems, we're both stubborn to what we believe.

Also, I really like how you mapped out the few characters that arent stapled into teams apart from Ash.
Kudos to your play of that.

Think of changing features of a character as changing the history. One small change impacts the whole development of history. Same here: each small change on any character makes a significant impact on metagame.

Good roamers are good with generating threat, they will put attackers in a "bullied" state where they have to concentrate on a roamer massively or die one by one, therefore both risking several teammates or increasing their chances of taking the roamer out. Would you pick Pulse, Frost, or Bandit, if they wouldn't have C4? Would you pick Doc if he had C4?

I know that Tachanka is uncomfortable to play the way most people are used to, but hear me out: giving him any kind of buffs will undermine the fact that he's an Armor 3 defender with a shotgun that makes no noise. Rook, Doc, Tachanka - these guys are the last defenders to be hit by attackers, and they can live for quite a while and provide a lot of firepower, if they all take armor plates and Doc is always ready to revive.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-20-2016, 11:01 PM
Think of changing features of a character as changing the history. One small change impacts the whole development of history. Same here: each small change on any character makes a significant impact on metagame.

Good roamers are good with generating threat, they will put attackers in a "bullied" state where they have to concentrate on a roamer massively or die one by one, therefore both risking several teammates or increasing their chances of taking the roamer out. Would you pick Pulse, Frost, or Bandit, if they wouldn't have C4? Would you pick Doc if he had C4?

I know that Tachanka is uncomfortable to play the way most people are used to, but hear me out: giving him any kind of buffs will undermine the fact that he's an Armor 3 defender with a shotgun that makes no noise. Rook, Doc, Tachanka - these guys are the last defenders to be hit by attackers, and they can live for quite a while and provide a lot of firepower, if they all take armor plates and Doc is always ready to revive.

+1

But honestly, Armour shouldn't matter when people who are good always go for the head.. since the mechanic is so. I will not back you down as you proved your point with the least futile words possible. But it feels as if tachanka still needs his buffs. Multiple people still wish it to be possible, along with some being 50-50.. but the ones on the 50-50 aren't even big players of tachanka. I admittedly am a tachanka main, no, tachanka loyalist. But wouldn't you think changing something so denied would prove an impact? I understand any change can impact the history, or meta. But, giving the ability for everyone to use it, it should be done. All I'm asking in the simplest of ways is to just fix his gadget. Not the operator. I mean even you know the silly idea of a two hit headshot. People wanted that. But I'm not asking for damage buffs or accuracy buffs. Just a duck mechanic, Something with a way to suppress enemies harder(I could care less of this), smaller placement , and back to the old gun on reinforced trapdoors.


I feel quite obliged to say, thanks for reading this.
I guess after a long post talk, you aren't... rude. Just full-forth on opinion.

LoadOfSeamen
03-20-2016, 11:57 PM
So, few people know this, but the russian operators's names are russian for their use: glaz means scope and tachanka is a horse-drawn machine gun. Ao, what if he had a wheeled turret! like he could move it around!! MAKE TACHANKA GREAT AGAIN!!

SMH
03-21-2016, 01:27 AM
So, few people know this, but the russian operators's names are russian for their use: glaz means scope and tachanka is a horse-drawn machine gun. Ao, what if he had a wheeled turret! like he could move it around!! MAKE TACHANKA GREAT AGAIN!!

Glaz means "the eye", and Tachanka only means the full horse carriage with the MMG. Pull the carriage away and it's the same Maxim's MG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachanka

The idea behind Tachanka is a metaphor for "vintage, archaic". He's using an old MMG. Nowadays the Kord HMG is used instead as a mounted MG, and RPK and PKP-Pecheneg is used for LMG/MMG purposes. It's about "old, but good". The meta about Tachanka calls for old, trusty method of engagement: ambush. Ambush requires teamwork, one luring, the other closing the trap. Doesn't really matter who does what, it's all about at least two players coordinating a man-made trap.


All I'm asking in the simplest of ways is to just fix his gadget. Not the operator. I mean even you know the silly idea of a two hit headshot. People wanted that. But I'm not asking for damage buffs or accuracy buffs. Just a duck mechanic, Something with a way to suppress enemies harder(I could care less of this), smaller placement , and back to the old gun on reinforced trapdoors.

I feel quite obliged to say, thanks for reading this.
I guess after a long post talk, you aren't... rude. Just full-forth on opinion.

The only thing I see in need of fixing is the deployment clearance, and I'm extremely skeptical around any other improvements if they are not imposed on everyone else. Like, if want Tachanka to survive a headshot because of his solid metal helmet, shouldn't Thermite, Castle, Rook, Montagne, IQ, Jager, Doc, Blitz, and Fuze have the same ability, albeit in some reduced capability?

And the ducking mechanic....here's my take on it:

If he can duck but automatically dismounts him from the MMG (unable to fire any weapon as long as he's ducking), that's great, that's consistent within the game. Nobody may return fire while behind solid cover. However, if he can return fire while fully ducking behind a shield, and he has the means to do that accurately, it's an overpowered character with high-penetration, high damage, high magazine capacity weapon, and returning fire does literally nothing to him because he's behind cover that blocks against all ammunition but explosives, and even if he manages to get a stray bullet or a grenade explosion nearby, he has a lot of armor on him and will likely survive and continue firing. Do you see why I'm so skeptical now?

MustD1eRu
03-21-2016, 02:47 AM
So, few people know this, but the russian operators's names are russian for their use: glaz means scope and tachanka is a horse-drawn machine gun. Ao, what if he had a wheeled turret! like he could move it around!! MAKE TACHANKA GREAT AGAIN!!
Glaz means Eye, Kapkan means trap (like Frost trap), not tripwire.

secrecy274
03-21-2016, 02:51 AM
@TheNoobZMaster
I'm a little curious. How many Tachanka LMG kills do you have?
Your traps sounds good, sadly it's hard to pull off with randoms.

SMH
03-21-2016, 03:02 AM
@TheNoobZMaster
I'm a little curious. How many Tachanka LMG kills do you have?
Your traps sounds good, sadly it's hard to pull off with randoms.

For the 12h48min I've played him, I've gotten 44 kills, K/D of 1.39 (operator-specific K/D) and round W/L of 1.06.

It's a gamble most of the time, picking Tachanka if you know your teammates won't bait for you is quite risky. Best option for playing alone is to set up in the "back entrance", put some barbed wire right in the entrance, and wait until they start making noises, then just start sniping out breach charges and eventually wallbanging them.

The "old, but good" method is simple: Consulate, objective is in the archives. You put the MMG in the dark corridor, deploy barbed wire on the stairs and right before the doorway at the end of the corridor. Doorways are barricaded. A roamer just runs up-down the stairs, makes some noise and takes potshots at attackers, making them think he's alone so they can follow him. Roamer runs back to the objective, attackers get caught in the wire and eventually say hello to MMG. Attackers are in a bottleneck, defender doesn't even have to aim.

secrecy274
03-21-2016, 03:11 AM
For the 12h48min I've played him, I've gotten 44 kills, K/D of 1.39 (operator-specific K/D) and round W/L of 1.06.

It's a gamble most of the time, picking Tachanka if you know your teammates won't bait for you is quite risky. Best option is to set up in the "back entrance", put some barbed wire right in the entrance, and wait until they start making noises, then just start sniping out breach charges and eventually wallbanging them.

Nice.
I myself have 18h 8min with him (he's by far my most used Operator, Kapkan being second with 7h 16min) 76 LMG kills, a K/D of 2.30 (Operator Specific) and a W/L 3.63.
But this is in casual. Can't imagine going against Competitive teams successfully.

SMH
03-21-2016, 03:14 AM
Nice.
I myself have 18h 8min with him (he's by far my most used Operator, Kapkan being second with 7h 16min) 76 LMG kills, a K/D of 2.30 (Operator Specific) and a W/L 3.63.
But this is in casual. Can't imagine going against Competitive teams successfully.

Try it and let me know ;) I happened to pull off an awesome quadruple today with Tachanka on Ranked, people had their mouths open

secrecy274
03-21-2016, 03:23 AM
Try it and let me know ;) I happened to pull off an awesome quadruple today with Tachanka on Ranked, people had their mouths open

Have had a couple of those, even got a friend to admit Tachanka isn't as worthless as he thought.
It made my day :D

PinguThyPenguin
03-21-2016, 04:15 AM
Personally I think that a ducking feature would be great, aswell as lowering the required area for his gun to be placed, however suppression I disagree with as we are playing as a special forces counter-terrorism unit who are trained under fire.
Shields should be penetrable by Tachanka's gun, it's really annoying when a shield sits in the corner and waits for the perfect head-shot on you while you can't do anything, however Montagne shouldn't be penetrable as it is his main feature (a tough as hell shield).

reZaL-
03-21-2016, 04:49 AM
Well ducking would be awesome because at the moment you have to leave the LMG while standing. If you could just duck behind cover and then leave the LMG it would help a lot.Often times you are just trapped with the LMG because leaving it takes so much time.

I also have some ideas for Tachanka and I know for many these suggestion will sound over the top but I ll explain how to counter him in a minute.

Give Tachanka a shield that covers his torso and head from the front.Looking something like this

http://olive-drab.com/images/hmmwv_weapons_gunnershields_700.jpg

and for the head
https://chivethebrigade.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/custom-guns-500-21.jpg

Combined with a deployable shield he can get almost 100% cover from front.

Important NOTE: The shield covering Tachanka's head will break after 4 hits! As soon as this shield is broken Tachanaka can get headshotted again. This will reduce the huge disadvantage of being a stationary target but only for a certain amount of time / hits. The peekers advantage gets weakend and more skill is required to take Tachanka out.

Counters to the new Tachanka who is protected against bullets from the front : Ash (Grenade Launcher) , Thermite&Sledge&Recruit (Grenades), Flash grenades, smoke grenades or flanking, or headshot from above e.g. Trap Door

Important changes:


Make entering and leaving the LMG faster.It feels super clunky

Fasten deploying time

Reduce deploying sound


Optional:


Give Tachanka shield piercing rounds that damage shield carriers like Blitz instantly through their shield. Also add the possiblity to break the shield window with Tachankas LMG after 2 hits.

Give him a C4


Give him Fuze's LMG without reducing mobility (peekers advantage)

I_Main_ThIQ
03-21-2016, 07:57 AM
Personally I think that a ducking feature would be great, aswell as lowering the required area for his gun to be placed, however suppression I disagree with as we are playing as a special forces counter-terrorism unit who are trained under fire.
Shields should be penetrable by Tachanka's gun, it's really annoying when a shield sits in the corner and waits for the perfect head-shot on you while you can't do anything, however Montagne shouldn't be penetrable as it is his main feature (a tough as hell shield).

I understand what you mean, Pingu. But as much as you may Noot like it, supression is suppression. It causes stuff to happen to our senses. And the shield thing. We can't. Maybe if it caused flinching that would be better... but still. thanks for your semi idea! :)


Glaz means "the eye", and Tachanka only means the full horse carriage with the MMG. Pull the carriage away and it's the same Maxim's MG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachanka

The idea behind Tachanka is a metaphor for "vintage, archaic". He's using an old MMG. Nowadays the Kord HMG is used instead as a mounted MG, and RPK and PKP-Pecheneg is used for LMG/MMG purposes. It's about "old, but good". The meta about Tachanka calls for old, trusty method of engagement: ambush. Ambush requires teamwork, one luring, the other closing the trap. Doesn't really matter who does what, it's all about at least two players coordinating a man-made trap.



The only thing I see in need of fixing is the deployment clearance, and I'm extremely skeptical around any other improvements if they are not imposed on everyone else. Like, if want Tachanka to survive a headshot because of his solid metal helmet, shouldn't Thermite, Castle, Rook, Montagne, IQ, Jager, Doc, Blitz, and Fuze have the same ability, albeit in some reduced capability?

And the ducking mechanic....here's my take on it:

If he can duck but automatically dismounts him from the MMG (unable to fire any weapon as long as he's ducking), that's great, that's consistent within the game. Nobody may return fire while behind solid cover. However, if he can return fire while fully ducking behind a shield, and he has the means to do that accurately, it's an overpowered character with high-penetration, high damage, high magazine capacity weapon, and returning fire does literally nothing to him because he's behind cover that blocks against all ammunition but explosives, and even if he manages to get a stray bullet or a grenade explosion nearby, he has a lot of armor on him and will likely survive and continue firing. Do you see why I'm so skeptical now?

I do. I really do see why you're skeptical. But how come you'd think having massive accuracy debuffs while anyone blind fires ducks means it's accurate?
That also seems like a pretty cool idea on the helmet things. But it's getting odd. like certain calibers should headshot in certain ways. But it's a mechanic we cannot break.


Well ducking would be awesome because at the moment you have to leave the LMG while standing. If you could just duck behind cover and then leave the LMG it would help a lot.Often times you are just trapped with the LMG because leaving it takes so much time.

I also have some ideas for Tachanka and I know for many these suggestion will sound over the top but I ll explain how to counter him in a minute.

Give Tachanka a shield that covers his torso and head from the front.Looking something like this

http://olive-drab.com/images/hmmwv_weapons_gunnershields_700.jpg

and for the head
https://chivethebrigade.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/custom-guns-500-21.jpg

Combined with a deployable shield he can get almost 100% cover from front.

Important NOTE: The shield covering Tachanka's head will break after 4 hits! As soon as this shield is broken Tachanaka can get headshotted again. This will reduce the huge disadvantage of being a stationary target but only for a certain amount of time / hits. The peekers advantage gets weakend and more skill is required to take Tachanka out.

Counters to the new Tachanka who is protected against bullets from the front : Ash (Grenade Launcher) , Thermite&Sledge&Recruit (Grenades), Flash grenades, smoke grenades or flanking, or headshot from above e.g. Trap Door

Important changes:


Make entering and leaving the LMG faster.It feels super clunky

Fasten deploying time

Reduce deploying sound


Optional:


Give Tachanka shield piercing rounds that damage shield carriers like Blitz instantly through their shield. Also add the possiblity to break the shield window with Tachankas LMG after 2 hits.

Give him a C4


Give him Fuze's LMG without reducing mobility (peekers advantage)


Beautiful idea, sir, or ma'am. But still would defeat the purpose of the ducking mechanic. I like the idea alot. But it wouldn't fit on a weapon such as his. I do realize people want the shield breaking mechanic in, but seriously, would it really make sense?
Thanks for this big idea. I'll see what I can take and add into this post :)

M__fr46
03-21-2016, 12:36 PM
All Tachanka needs is skins for the machine gun.

MI_LeadFarmer
03-21-2016, 03:01 PM
Its been said many times at this point but best solution is to start with making its deploy zone smaller and see how it balances out. Personally I think that would go a long way on its own without any other changes.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-22-2016, 03:22 PM
All Tachanka needs is skins for the machine gun.

You never played Tachanka is my guess. Thanks for your opinion!


Its been said many times at this point but best solution is to start with making its deploy zone smaller and see how it balances out. Personally I think that would go a long way on its own without any other changes.

We all have different perspectives.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-24-2016, 02:51 PM
Bump.

I_Main_ThIQ
03-26-2016, 02:26 AM
badda badda bump bump.

Tachanka007
03-30-2016, 07:52 PM
Well ducking would be awesome because at the moment you have to leave the LMG while standing. If you could just duck behind cover and then leave the LMG it would help a lot.Often times you are just trapped with the LMG because leaving it takes so much time.


Totally agreed.
It would also help if the hitbox for the head of every operator would be the same. GSG9 Operators and our dear Tachankahaver a higher risk of getting a headshot than Ash or Frost for example. And I was sometimes killed by peekers I could not see and they'd not see me if I hadn't played Tachanka. But if the top of the helmet can be seen and it gets you are gonna to die with Tachanka.

I_Main_ThIQ
04-03-2016, 08:20 PM
Totally agreed.
It would also help if the hitbox for the head of every operator would be the same. GSG9 Operators and our dear Tachankahaver a higher risk of getting a headshot than Ash or Frost for example. And I was sometimes killed by peekers I could not see and they'd not see me if I hadn't played Tachanka. But if the top of the helmet can be seen and it gets you are gonna to die with Tachanka.

AMEN! Don't forget that sad netcode with perma 20ms :(

Dikke_Neus
04-04-2016, 06:31 PM
yup. another well worked out thread, and great effort! +1

I agree that tachanka's MMG could be a bit more agile.
Love the ducking idea, maybe when ducked and leaning, you see next to a shield, or cover, while your MMG shoots over the cover? and you get a regular reticule like hipfire, but larger.?
it gives tachanka a bit more "play room" to duck behind cover, and not only to be waited out standing straight up again, insta headshot.

some blind fire while behind the cover, or "hipfire over the cover" while looking next to the left or right side makes him not more accurate or deadly, but more competitive.
I think it would create some more "play room" like shields often do battle with their targets. switching between hipfire/ aiming/ getting closer.

If tachanka will hipfire/ aim / blindfire .... -> it will make him more unpredictable and agile. imho more balanced.
to further perfection tachanka's balance, after a month or so, just adjust his accuracy on ADS/ ducked blindfire / hipfire.

I_Main_ThIQ
04-04-2016, 09:00 PM
yup. another well worked out thread, and great effort! +1

I agree that tachanka's MMG could be a bit more agile.
Love the ducking idea, maybe when ducked and leaning, you see next to a shield, or cover, while your MMG shoots over the cover? and you get a regular reticule like hipfire, but larger.?
it gives tachanka a bit more "play room" to duck behind cover, and not only to be waited out standing straight up again, insta headshot.

some blind fire while behind the cover, or "hipfire over the cover" while looking next to the left or right side makes him not more accurate or deadly, but more competitive.
I think it would create some more "play room" like shields often do battle with their targets. switching between hipfire/ aiming/ getting closer.

If tachanka will hipfire/ aim / blindfire .... -> it will make him more unpredictable and agile. imho more balanced.
to further perfection tachanka's balance, after a month or so, just adjust his accuracy on ADS/ ducked blindfire / hipfire.

I tried explaining that already! But it's too thick to get through. Instead, if he ducks, he can just get off. no need to blind fire. He has a primary for a reason

TidalSpiral
04-05-2016, 02:24 AM
I want faster deploy / pickup on the turret, along with easier placement OR for him to just carry an LMG that he can use like a third weapon option. Of course he would move very slow and the reload would be terrible but at least then he could really surprise people with it.

Dikke_Neus
04-05-2016, 05:11 PM
I tried explaining that already! But it's too thick to get through. Instead, if he ducks, he can just get off. no need to blind fire. He has a primary for a reason

oh, right, forgot he had a primary aswell. that 9mm submachine gun... that's a good weapon.
I Totally agree with you now!

I_Main_ThIQ
04-28-2016, 08:41 PM
this thread shall not be dead, Bump.

I_Main_ThIQ
05-11-2016, 10:48 PM
Daaaare it die?
Not with this progress, Bump!