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huggy87
07-13-2004, 02:54 PM
Can someone explain to me how this worked.

As I understand it, the Jug normally carried only 200rpg. The 'extra ammunition' bumped each gun up to 425 rpg. Why wouldn't they always carry that ammo load?

huggy87
07-13-2004, 02:54 PM
Can someone explain to me how this worked.

As I understand it, the Jug normally carried only 200rpg. The 'extra ammunition' bumped each gun up to 425 rpg. Why wouldn't they always carry that ammo load?

TheEngine88
07-13-2004, 02:56 PM
Too much weight, especially if you're carrying other ordinance.

"Pain Fades, Glory lasts forever, Chicks dig scars."

HART_dreyer
07-13-2004, 02:57 PM
I'm taking a wild guess but, because it would be unnecessary extra weight?

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."

VW-IceFire
07-13-2004, 03:24 PM
Considering that the standard load of a F6F Hellcat is 400 rounds per gun for all 6 guns its quite hard to believe that they would send a P-47 into combat with 200 rounds.

What I believe we have represented here is this. On bombing runs and tactical missions, crews would take half ammo loads on their guns to lessen the weight. On fighter missions they would bump up the ammo load because the weight wasn't as much of a problem.

So Extra Ammo is standard for fighter combat. Normal/all other armaments is standard for tactical missions.

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El Turo
07-13-2004, 03:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Who is this man so wise in the ways of science?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://faculty.smu.edu/bwheeler/kinga/monty1.jpg

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

bun-bun195333
07-13-2004, 04:23 PM
If you loaded a P-47 with extra ammo would it float in a small pond?

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LuftLuver
07-13-2004, 04:29 PM
Build a bridge out of it!

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p1ngu666
07-13-2004, 04:47 PM
iirec it was something structural, if u had ordinace u didnt have room for extra ammo or sumin

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horseback
07-13-2004, 05:08 PM
200 rpg for a Jug just sounds wrong to me. Granted, that works out to 1600 rounds, but as the expression "the whole nine yards" is supposed to refer to the fact that the belts of .50 cal for a P-47 measured out to 9 yards, let's see...

9 yds = 27 ft.

27 X 24 (0.5 inches per round)= 648 rounds, or 81 rpg, if we assume that the 9 yards in question is for both wings' guns, or approximately 160 rpg if we assume 9 yards of belts per wing.

What a letdown!

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

SkyChimp
07-13-2004, 05:41 PM
245 rounds per gun, not 200, was pretty much standard for Thunderbolts flying fighter/bomber missions. Planes flying fighter missions usually carried more.

Regards,
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horseback
07-13-2004, 06:00 PM
Home from the office, where I can reach Horseback's Liberry O'Doom, where Green & Swanborough and Aerodata International both quote 263 rpg normal, and up to 425 rpg.

Much better!

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

FennecP
07-13-2004, 06:04 PM
A complete .50 round is about 120 grams.

So 180 would be ~22kg. Times 8 guns, is 176kg.

Thats quite a bit, when you consider the difference that a few hundred liters of fuel will cause on performance. Its like a whole new plane.

From now on I will make sure I empty my guns before I air race http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HART_dreyer
07-13-2004, 06:18 PM
I don't see why you would need much more ammo than that for air combat.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."

CTOJoker
07-13-2004, 06:35 PM
Ermm...I always thought the term "the whole nine yards" referred to the amount of material required to make a kilt.

nickdanger3
07-13-2004, 06:39 PM
Hmmm...looks like it's kinda murky:

http://www.yaelf.com/nineyards.shtml

I'm surprised to learn that the phrase only dates back to the 1960's !

huggy87
07-13-2004, 06:47 PM
I guess it makes sense that that much ammo would reduce roll rate and overall performance. I, however, with my gunnery skills, would take the extra ammo in a heartbeat.

BTW. I was quoting this informative non-official website for the 200rpg.

http://fafgci.sqn.fr.free.fr/nouveau_fichier16.html

VW-IceFire
07-13-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HART_dreyer:
I don't see why you would need much more ammo than that for air combat.

Regards,
dreyer
_http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/_
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
More than 200? Well 200 runs out pretty quickly. You need that extra 200 to finish off opponents.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

VW-IceFire
07-13-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Turo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Who is this man so wise in the ways of science?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://faculty.smu.edu/bwheeler/kinga/monty1.jpg

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Arthur...King of the Britons! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

georgeo76
07-13-2004, 07:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Arthur...King of the Britons! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't vote for you

bun-bun195333
07-13-2004, 07:07 PM
Which would have a higher wing loading, a P-47 with extra ammo or a swallow carrying a coconut?

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HART_dreyer
07-13-2004, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HART_dreyer:
I don't see why you would need much more ammo than that for air combat.

Regards,
dreyer
_http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/_
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
More than 200? Well 200 runs out pretty quickly. You need that extra 200 to finish off opponents.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No way! Not against fighters! You have 8 of those guns! Flying the P-51 I rarely fire for longer than a 1 second burst. Most of the time 0.5 second bursts. So with 17 seconds that will give me a least 20 firing oppertunities which should result in 5 or more kills.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."

Owlsphone
07-13-2004, 08:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:
200 rpg for a Jug just sounds wrong to me. Granted, that works out to 1600 rounds, but as the expression "the whole nine yards" is supposed to refer to the fact that the belts of .50 cal for a P-47 measured out to 9 yards, let's see...

9 yds = 27 ft.

27 X 24 (0.5 inches per round)= 648 rounds, or 81 rpg, if we assume that the 9 yards in question is for both wings' guns, or approximately 160 rpg if we assume 9 yards of belts per wing.

What a letdown!

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



What you are trying to measure is correct, but the bullets are not exactly side by side on the ammo belt. There is space in between each round. And yes, horseback is correct as to where that statement originated. "whole nine yards" was considering emptying the guns into another plane.

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-14-2004, 08:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bun-bun195333:
Which would have a higher wing loading, a P-47 with extra ammo or a swallow carrying a coconut?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Is it an African swallow? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif



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horseback
07-14-2004, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
What you are trying to measure is correct, but the bullets are not exactly side by side on the ammo belt. There is space in between each round. And yes, horseback is correct as to where that statement originated. "whole nine yards" was considering emptying the guns into another plane.

Vertically challenged since 1984.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I knew that, but I was looking for the proverbial 'ballpark figure.'

Greatly admire your sig, though.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Diablo310th
07-14-2004, 02:53 PM
"Never go anywhere without it" ie Extra ammunition in a Jug. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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