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BLUE_Illu
02-16-2004, 02:51 PM
Some of Germans emigrated after the Nazis seized power in Germany. Iam wondering if there were any Germans who flew for the Allies. I came to this when I saw the second episode of Band of Brothers. There was that German prisoner who spoke english and he explained that he lived in the States when war broke out and his father decided they had to go back to Germany and serve for there country. So iam very keen on knowing if there Germans fought against the Nazis.

BLUE_Illu
02-16-2004, 02:51 PM
Some of Germans emigrated after the Nazis seized power in Germany. Iam wondering if there were any Germans who flew for the Allies. I came to this when I saw the second episode of Band of Brothers. There was that German prisoner who spoke english and he explained that he lived in the States when war broke out and his father decided they had to go back to Germany and serve for there country. So iam very keen on knowing if there Germans fought against the Nazis.

horseback
02-16-2004, 04:00 PM
Blue,

Recent censuses (censi?) in the US indicate that most Americans of European descent have a healthy percentage of German ancestry. I'm about an eighth German myself. Many Germans migrating to the US in the '20s and '30s & who were of draft age very probably served in the war on the US side. But from our standpoint, they were Americans once they took the oath of citizenship.

Yes, we know about how badly the Japanese descended Nisei were treated, but hey, it was a mistake, we admit it, we apologized, and we won't do it again (at least not to THEM).

As for aces who wore American colors, I can point to Hubert Zemke, whose parents were both German-born, and taught him German before he went to elementary school, or the WWI ace Eddie Rickenbacker (Rickenbacher, before the war).

It was also my understanding that there was a small, faith-based (Christian) organization which assisted the Allied intelligence in Germany, but that story is kind of vague.

No doubt others will think of better examples.

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

LEXX_Luthor
02-16-2004, 04:57 PM
horseback:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>WWI ace Eddie Rickenbacker (Rickenbacher, before the war).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey I never knew that. Awsum.

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Franzen
02-16-2004, 07:40 PM
I see it al the time, German or at least Germanic names in the U.S.. Some good and some bad but I don't want to get into politics. Just a few names to mention, Bush(Busch), Rumsfeld, Schwartzkopf, Chuck Yaeger(possibly Jaeger, Nimitz, and the list goes on and on. If you see a list of names from WW2 you will find so many names. I also read from a U.S. government site once that 65% of caucasian Americans carry German blood. My father comes directly from Germany and my mother from Canada but her maiden name is Buchner. During WW2 I lost a lot of family from the German side and the Canadian side. Take about a family feud. I have often thought about this topic. How did they feel going back to their roots to fight their people? I guess you can ask the same for the Americans and British in the late 18th century. I think they must have forced themselves to think political to give themselve a feeling of righteousness, on both sides.
Yes I agree, when you take the oath you do become an American, you are an American. That's a big part of America's success. Without this you create an majority of minority groups which in turn creates chaos in society. DAMN! Sorry, didn't want to go to politics.

Fritz Franzen

SkyChimp
02-16-2004, 07:56 PM
@ Fritz

My mother's family came to the U.S. in 1738 (been here ever since) in response to the good King of England's call for Europeans with trade skills. Johann Muller lived in Freudenberg, Germany (fogive me if I mispelled it, I don't have my book handy) and was a blacksmith. He landed in Georgia but settled in Halifax county Virginia and became a farmer. He was forced to "Anglicize" (sp?) his name and became John Miller. He was among the first Virginians to sign a "declaration of loyalty" to the new United States, and donated oxen, carts and food to the Continental Army. His sons served in various militias.

My dad's family came from England in the 1760s and settled in New Jersey. They were loyalists during the Revolution.

Funny thing, during the Civil War, some folks on my dad's side served with the Union Army, and the some folks on my mom's side were Confederate soldiers. Both my mom and dad had ancestors at Appomattox, on opposite sides.

Funnier still, in the 1830, both my dad's ancestors and my mom's ancestors lived in Laurens, South Carolina. Wonder if they new each other?

Regards,
SkyChimp
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BLUE_Illu
02-17-2004, 02:22 AM
As Iam also a reeancator I could say that there was even a whole Infantry Corps fighting for the Union. It was commandered by General Heinzelman. Many of its man were directly put into service when they arrived in New York by ship so they often didnt spoke english. Germans where beside the Irish the second most foreign group who fought for in the Civil War.
And another thing, but I dont know if its true,I heard that when when it came to decide which language was to be spoken in the US English won with only one vote over German. Guess you all would speak German now.

But was there a German Squad fighting for the allies? I think of something like the Normandy Niemen squad on the Russian side, or the many Polish and Czech squads for the British.

Copperhead310th
02-17-2004, 03:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:
Blue,

Recent censuses (censi?) in the US indicate that most Americans of European descent have a healthy percentage of German ancestry. I'm about an eighth German myself. Many Germans migrating to the US in the '20s and '30s & who were of draft age very probably served in the war on the US side. But from our standpoint, they were Americans once they took the oath of citizenship.

horseback
"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speak for your self. I have NO German ancestery.
As far back as i can trace wich is around the year 1374 on my fathers side & 1603 on my mom's side. Both are of Scottish & Native Americain decent. So we're Scottish/Cherokee/Blackfoot & Creek. I'm a member of Clan Henderson & Clan MacTavish. (since most Americain Indian tribes didn't use last names it's almost impossible to trace back those roots.) I'm involved heavily in both cultures. right now i'm learning to flint knap. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But you're statment "Recent censuses (censi?) in the US indicate that most Americans of European descent have a healthy percentage of German ancestry." Is pretty far off. imagration to the us in those days tended to be very regionalized depending on what you ansestery & culture was. Most...Not all But 90% of the Celts that came to this country eventually migrated south. Most of the Saxson's, Anglo's, & Aryan's stayed north & migrated west.

For those who don't know what a Saxon, Anglo, Celt or Aryan is look it up.

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Hans.Wind
02-17-2004, 03:50 AM
Moderators, please stop this American idolotry thread!

A somewhat off topic thread about WW2 aviation has turned into a bunch of Americans grooming each other, praising their ancestry.

Copperhead, your understanding of races is not very impressive; how can you mention "Aryans" as part of immigration groups? I don't know about American nomenclature, but for West Europeans, this expression is part of the Nazi propaganda from the 30's.

Hans Wind

SpinSpinSugar
02-17-2004, 03:52 AM
Excuse my ignorance of US political concerns, but I read somewhere that way back when only one vote blocked an amendment (?) that all official stuff (?) be issued in both English and German. It was almost a second official language of the US, in legal terms at least.

Sorry, I read this a couple of weeks back in a paper and can't remember the exact details. Was very interesting though. Big Germanic input into early westernised North America, along with English and French.

Cheers, SSS

Edit : Just noticed a similar point in Blue_Illu's posting above. Sorry, must learn to read better. It was, however, definitely something about bi-lingual officialdom, not picking a first language!

Second Edit : Back on topic, there was at least one German national in the RAF during the Battle of Britain, wasn't there? Sure I saw that on this forum a while back.

[This message was edited by SpinSpinSugar on Tue February 17 2004 at 03:06 AM.]

oFZo
02-17-2004, 04:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpinSpinSugar:
Excuse my ignorance of US political concerns, but I read somewhere that way back when only one vote blocked an amendment (?) that all official stuff (?) be issued in both English and German. It was almost a second official language of the US, in legal terms at least.

Edit : Just noticed a similar point in Blue_Illu's posting above. Sorry, must learn to read better. It was, however, definitely something about bi-lingual officialdom, not picking a first language!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they're mistaken with Dutch, it was one vote away from being first language... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-oFZo
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Oak_Groove
02-17-2004, 04:23 AM
Don´t know if there were any ethnically isolated combat units of german ancestry in american service, i could imagine however that quite a number of germans/ german-americans were working for the U.S. espionage service at that time.

BTW, some figures on german immigration 1820-1959:

Decade | Total Immigration | German | ( % )

1820-29 | 128,502 | 5,753 | 4.5
1830-39 | 538,381 | 124,726 | 23.2
1840-49 | 1,427,337 | 385,434 | 27.0
1850-59 | 2,814,554 | 976,072 | 34.7
1860-69 | 2,081,261 | 723,734 | 34.8
1870-79 | 2,742,137 | 751,769 | 27.4
1880-89 | 5,248,568 | 1,445,181 | 27.5
1890-99 | 3,694,294 | 579,072 | 15.7
1900-09 | 8,202,388 | 328,722 | 4.0
1910-19 | 6,347,380 | 174,227 | 2.7
1920-29 | 4,295,510 | 386,634 | 9.0
1930-39 | 699,375 | 119,107 | 17.0
1940-49 | 856,608 | 117,506 | 14.0
1950-59 | 2,499,268 | 576,905 | 23.1

More here: http://www.ulib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/chap1.html

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fiesetrix
02-17-2004, 05:21 AM
The US-German community suffered from anti-German sentiments in the years prior and durind WWI - during this period many changed their names in order not to expose themselves to the then agressive anti-German mood. This was also intrumentalized in the struggle for prohibition because the brewing business then was largely in the hands of German immigrants - they were accused of collaborating with the Kaiser in order to intoxicate and weaken the American people. Between the wars, this settled a bit and at the beginning of WWII the Japanese immigrants were harrassed and interned for Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. After WW2, when the full extend of the Nazi-German crimes against humanity became public, very strong Anti-German feelings evolved and shaped and still shape the picture of Germany for the decades to follow. Even today the stereotype of the heel-clicking, square headed German with a stiff right arm is quite popular, especially in Hollywood. This picture is supported once in while by news about German Neo-Nazis - a political scene which is not an exclusively German problem (take a look at Britain, France, Russia and even the US for example) - but in this context this always raises attention and mixed feelings about Germany today. For me as a German, I do not question or deny the history of my people in the 20th century but I appreciate it when the achievements of Germany as a democratic country after WWII are taken into account - German and European history does not stop in 1945. Now, almost 60 ys after VE day, for the first time, the German chancellor is invited to the 60th anniversary of the Normandy landings - against considerable resistance of veteran groups. Although disputable, in my opinion, this is a good decision - after 60 ys of probation. I think we Germans made considerable progress in taking our place among the democratic and free nations and the front-lines of WWII are finally softened up. Veterans may see this differently, for they have suffered and lost friends and relatives during the bitter fighting but for me (born 21 ys after VE day), who never experienced such hardship this point of view doesn't make much sense. I don't know who said those words: "We forgive, but we don't forget" - and that's O.K. for me.

JorBR
02-17-2004, 06:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:
Blue,
(...)
Yes, we know about how badly the Japanese descended Nisei were treated, but hey, it was a mistake, we admit it, we apologized, and we won't do it again (at least not to THEM).
(...)
Cheers
horseback
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hope you won´t do it to anybody

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

Zyzbot
02-17-2004, 07:21 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpinSpinSugar:
Excuse my ignorance of US political concerns, but I read somewhere that way back when only one vote blocked an amendment (?) that all official stuff (?) be issued in both English and German. It was almost a second official language of the US, in legal terms at least.

Sorry, I read this a couple of weeks back in a paper and can't remember the exact details. Was very interesting though. Big Germanic input into early westernised North America, along with English and French.

Cheers, SSS
Second Edit : Back on topic, there was at least one German national in the RAF during the Battle of Britain, wasn't there? Sure I saw that on this forum a while back.
QUOTE]


This is another urban myth. There never was a vote to make German or Dutch the official language of the US.

Zyzbot
02-17-2004, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:
Blue,


Yes, we know about how badly the Japanese descended Nisei were treated, but hey, it was a mistake, we admit it, we apologized, and we won't do it again (at least not to THEM <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


it was not only the Japanese that this happened to.Do a little searching and you will find that there were actually as many people of German and Italian descent put into detention camps as there were Japanese. A forgotten fact.

HansKnappstick
02-17-2004, 07:25 AM
Not really German in the allied service but...

The capitulation of the Polish coastal army units in October 1939 was signed by the commanders of each side:

Admiral Unrug
General von Kwiatkowski

Guess which name belongs to which side.

Cossack13
02-17-2004, 08:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLUE_Illu:
I am wondering if there were any Germans who flew for the Allies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know, that would make for a very interesting fictional squad.

Like the American-Japanese infantry units that served in Europe, you may want to consider basing such a unit of expatriate Germans fighting for the Allies in the Pacific as the Allies wouldn't want those guys to fall into Nazi hands if shot down.

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horseback
02-17-2004, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:
Blue,


Yes, we know about how badly the Japanese descended Nisei were treated, but hey, it was a mistake, we admit it, we apologized, and we won't do it again (at least not to THEM <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


it was not only the Japanese that this happened to.Do a little searching and you will find that there were actually as many people of German and Italian descent put into detention camps as there were Japanese. A forgotten fact.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be right about the numbers, but in the case of the Nisei, the majority of them were US born citizens, well established in the American middle classes. I suspect the Germans and Italians who were interned early in WWII were primarily recent immigrants, and/or foreign nationals who did not suffer the financial and property losses those of Japanese descent did.

Foreign nationals residing in a country their native land was at war with could reasonably expect to be treated with suspicion. People who have been citizens of the country for generations should not, and in the case of the Nisei, there was clearly racism and economic jealousy in the mix.

Now, about ofzo's belief that it wasn't really German, but Dutch (Flemish?), that was almost officially adopted as the lingua franca here: after the Revolution of 1776, the Germans in America had a bit of public relations problem, due to the British use of Hessian mercenaries against their former colonies. Since these German immigrants were primarily located in Pennsylvania, and their accents sounded similar to the descendents of the original Dutch colonists in the New York area, their neighbors protectively began referring to them as "Pennsylvania Dutch" in order to avoid reprisals by newcomers from other states uprooted by the war.

The name has stuck over the years, and now mostly refers to the Amish and other Fundamentalist German Protestant communities in the US, although these people are mostly of German descent. This has confused the heck out of Dutch visiters to America ever since.

After the British took over in New York, the number of Dutch vs the number of Germans in America has pretty much favored the Germans, and the official language issue was between English and German.

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Maple_Tiger
02-17-2004, 09:36 AM
Im actualy related to the Clan Mcgregor.

Mothers name is Pollock = Irish. Dads side is Skinner = from what we found out was Scottish.

This is why i think i am messed up in the head http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.

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Franzen
02-17-2004, 09:38 AM
He he he, you guyz never cease to amaze me, and I mean the ones with the real facts. Anyone that studies the linguistics and history of the English language will tell you that the "Pennsylvania Dutch" are really the "Pennsylvania Deutsch". Due to the violence in Early American history many of them fled north to Canada and settle in the Ontario area which is the root of the Ontario accent. Cool, eh?.
Now, if you want to go back a little in time you'll also find out that mostly Germans, but also Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Dutch were as close to slavery as possible when they were promised the land of milk and honey by the Dutch Trading Company Of course they could gain their freedom after 5 years of grueling labour with little or no pay. Add this to what the British tried to do and you'll see why "freedom" has been one of the most spoken and sacred words in America for the last 400 years.
I will say this once again, according to a U.S. Federal Statistics site, which was used during official research done for the Canadian Government, 65% of caucasian Americans carry German blood. Read between the lines, "carry blood" doesn't mean 65% were 100% German. But they were the highest of all groups. You have to study European, especially British history to understand this. Sorry if I can't express this in such a short explanation.

Fritz Franzen

Cossack_UA
02-17-2004, 09:40 AM
That's all good talk.
But i still cannot understand why American beer sucks so bad. If Germans estabished first breweries, it should be pretty good.

Franzen
02-17-2004, 09:43 AM
Ha ha ha, try beer brewed in Ontario and history will become a little more obvious http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz Franzen

HansKnappstick
02-17-2004, 09:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Now, if you want to go back a little in time you'll also find out that mostly Germans, but also Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Dutch were as close to slavery as possible when they were promised the land of milk and honey by the Dutch Trading Company Of course they could gain their freedom after 5 years of grueling labour with little or no pay.
Fritz Franzen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was it called "indetured servants"? In the book "The Rise and Fall of the British Empire" this system has been priased very high for allowing poor Europeans emigrate to the New World; otherwise they could not afford the ticket.

Franzen
02-17-2004, 09:48 AM
Yes, of course you are right. After achieving their freedom they were able to get, work, and profit from the rich land. But before you take your BMW out of the showroom your gonna have to pay. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif, just as the Americans paid dearly for their freedom. I agree with you completely but the means and the results are contrasting.

Fritz Franzen

Zyzbot
02-17-2004, 09:59 AM
Pursuant to the Alien Enemy Act of 1798 (50 USC 21-24), which remains in effect today, the US may apprehend, intern and otherwise restrict the freedom of "alien enemies" upon declaration of war or actual, attempted or threatened invasion by a foreign nation.

During WWII, the US Government interned at least 11,000 persons of German ancestry. By law, only "enemy aliens" could be interned. However, with governmental approval, their family members frequently joined them in the camps. Many such "voluntarily" interned spouses and children were American citizens.

Internment was frequently based upon uncorroborated, hearsay evidence gathered by the FBI and other intelligence agencies. Homes were raided and many ransacked. Fathers, mothers and sometimes both were arrested and disappeared. Sometimes children left after the arrests had to fend for themselves. Some were placed in orphanages. DOJ instituted very limited due process protections for those arrested. Potential internees were held in custody for weeks in temporary detention centers, such as jails and hospitals, prior to their hearings. Frequently, their families had no idea where they were for weeks. The hearings took place before DOJ-constituted civilian hearing boards. Those arrested were subject to hostile questioning by the local prosecuting US Attorney, who was assisted by the investigating FBI agents. The intimidated, frequently semi-fluent accused had no right to counsel, could not contest the proceedings or question their accusers. Hearing board recommendations were forwarded to the Alien Enemy Control Unit of the Department of Justice for a final determination that could take weeks or months. Internees remained in custody nervously awaiting DOJ's order--unconditional release, parole or internment. Policy dictated that the AECU resolve what it deemed to be questionable hearing board recommendations in favor of internment. Based on AECU recommendations, the Attorney General issued internment orders for the duration of the war. Internees were shipped off to distant camps. Families were torn apart and lives destroyed. Family members left at home were shunned due to fear of the FBI and spite. Newspapers published stories and incriminating lists. Eventually destitute, many families lost their homes and had to apply to the government to join spouses in family camps, apply for welfare and/or rely on other family members who could afford to support them. Eventually, under such duress, hundreds of internees agreed repatriate to war-torn Germany to be exchanged with their children for Americans. Once there, food was scarce, Allied bombs were falling and their German families could do little to help them. Many regretted their decision. Considering the spurious allegations, which led to the internment of a majority of internees, their treatment by our government was harsh indeed. Their experience provides ample evidence of why our civil liberties are so precious.

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/gasummary.htm

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-17-2004, 10:07 AM
The husband of the Dutch Queen to-be was 100% German. Once the Dutch royalty fled to England, he was regarded with quite much suspicion. But Prince Bernhard prooved his loyalty later on. He flew his own spitfire but, not on combat missions. He flew from place to place to boost the morale of Dutch troops in English service.

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2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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Gianordolli
02-18-2004, 12:53 AM
I saw all that racial talk and ill post my not so humble opinion..The USA as well as other american countries (North, Central and South) have many diferents races together, if you go to NY city its like the entire world in one place, there you see arabs, africans, europeans,jews, brazilians, asians and many others.

Im not so good in american history, but as i know the britsh colonized and moved to the west right? so i ask to that guy? how can you be sure that 65% of white americans have german blood? it wasnt the germans that colonized america! of course that the germans immigrated to US, but 65% is to much for immigrants dont you think? and otherwise Germany culture is very diferent than US culture.

i dont have any knowledge of a German allied squad, the only foreigner pilot in Luftwaffe that i know at least it wasnt american, it was brazilian, his name was Egon Albrecht, i dont know if "Albrecht is right" and he was born in one brazilian state named "Curitiba"

www.luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html)

a good year to all italians!

[This message was edited by Gianordolli on Wed February 18 2004 at 12:02 AM.]

[This message was edited by Gianordolli on Wed February 18 2004 at 12:06 AM.]

Franzen
02-18-2004, 01:14 AM
Hi Gionorolli,
If you study European history and American history you can see the connections. But most importantly don't misunderstand what was said. It doesn't mean that 65% carry 100% German blood. It simply means that 65% carry atleast 1% of German blood from the foreparents. This also has very little to do with culture. Culture is more demographic and linguistic that having to do with biology. These 65% probably also carried Irish, Scottish, Dutch, French, and so on and so on.

Fritz Franzen

Kampfmeister
02-18-2004, 05:29 AM
Here you go Gianordolli, maybe this will help. In 1980 the US Census began asking people for the first time what their ethnic background was. I don't have the information from the latest US Census in 2000 so I'm going on what the 1990 Census states.

According to the 1990 Census the US population was about 248 million people. Of those people some 58 million responded that they were of German abstraction or at least had some German ancestry in their background. That would come to about 23% of the total population. The next highest group was Irish with around 39 million or around 16%.

There were actually some Germans that settled in Jamestown in 1608. The first major influx of Germans to America occurred in 1683. By the end of the Revolutionary War or after the first Census in 1790, Germans accounted for about 9% of the population. Between 1820 and 1920, there were more German immigrants to the United States than any other nationality. Later during the early 1900's more Italians and Eastern Europeans began settling in the United States. Most of the Germans settled in the Northern and Midwestern states, but some also settled in the South, namely Texas. In that state some 17% of the people claim German ancestry.

There are many more cultures in the United States of course than what I just listed, but I hope it gives you an idea of the general makeup of the population.

By the way, besides Germans does anyone know if there were any Japanese American pilots that flew during the war? We all know about the famous Japanese American infantry unit that fought in Europe.

DDad
02-18-2004, 07:12 AM
I can think of one Geramn in the US service- it was a Trivia question- and ironic

Name the only Cast Member of "Hogans Heroes" to serve in the US Army.



Werner Kemplerer (Col KLink)

Copperhead310th
02-18-2004, 01:40 PM
well one things for sure. the german americain ininterment camps had it a lot better than the Japanese & Italians in the same situation. Hell from the documentary i saw on it they had it better than most of the us population at the time.

Sad thing is MOST of them weren't Nazi's & openly despized & blaimed the Nazi German goverment for thier plight. The majority we're ardently oppesed to the Nazi doctrine. & the ones that were Pro nazi in the camps were out & out bullies twords the ones that we against the Nazi ideologies. their were many incidents of rampant beatings & even murders in the german camps at the time by the pro-nazi faction inside the camps against the majority of the anti nazi German Americain populace of the German camps.

As for the Japanese there were quite a fre Japanese-Americain Soildeirs & Sailors in the US aremed services. I can't post any numbers but i'm sure it was quite a few. I seem to remember that one such serviceman was highly decorated. but i can't remember who he was.

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Zyzbot
02-18-2004, 02:53 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
well one things for sure. the german americain ininterment camps had it a lot better than the Japanese & Italians in the same situation. Hell from the documentary i saw on it they had it better than most of the us population at the time...."



You seem to be referring to POW camps ...not camps for American Citizens of German descent. German POW's in America were genreally treated well but that is a different subject.

BfHeFwMe
02-18-2004, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cossack13:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLUE_Illu:
I am wondering if there were any Germans who flew for the Allies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know, that would make for a very interesting fictional squad.

Like the American-Japanese infantry units that served in Europe, you may want to consider basing such a unit of expatriate Germans fighting for the Allies in the Pacific as the Allies wouldn't want those guys to fall into Nazi hands if shot down.

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Ok, I'm giving the Alienware
just one more chance!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surprise, surprise, but if you check the units for Guadalcanal, the US Army regiment, 173'd, that was comprised of national guardsman was almost fully German. Problem was their ansestory wasn't traceable back to Germany, but Russia. Russia used to have several million naturalized Germans, eight to ten million, a majority in much of the Crimea and Volga regions. The Czar had a few units made up of Germans during WW1, mostly sent to the Turkish front. After the fall, they sort of vanished along with their families in the 20's and 30's. But no one likes to talk about that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BfHeFwMe
02-18-2004, 04:31 PM
Wonder if the Japanese ever appologized for throwing all the caucasions and others in their territory into camps. They went a bit further and threw the civilians of neutral and non alligned nations in too if they weren't pure Asian. Those people were treated the same as POW's, and we know what they did to them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

PZ_D_352FG
02-18-2004, 07:06 PM
Interesting topic, I read a while back that during WWII over 50% of the armed forces of the United States were of German heritage. Many of these first and second generation Americans. There is a paragraph in the book "Zemkes Wolfpack" i believe that mentions something that ties in with this topic. When the 56th transferred to England the first four pilots to report to the RAF ops station were Schilling, Schultz, and two other german names like Meyer and Hess.

Here is another interesting bit of info that came from a little book called "Interesting Facts from WWII"

Hitlers nephew immigrated to the US in the mid 30's after Uncle Adolf seized powerin Germany. He changed his name bacame a US citizen and joined the US Navy where he worked with Naval Intelligence in the Pacific during the war.

horseback
02-18-2004, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DDad:
I can think of one Geramn in the US service- it was a Trivia question- and ironic

Name the only Cast Member of "Hogans Heroes" to serve in the US Army.



Werner Kemplerer (Col KLink)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the guy who played Sergeant Schultz was also in the US Army, and in fact was featured on one of the more famous recruiting posters. Although I can't remember if his surname was German or not...

Cheers

horseback

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Kampfmeister
02-18-2004, 09:41 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
As for the Japanese there were quite a fre Japanese-Americain Soildeirs & Sailors in the US aremed services. I can't post any numbers but i'm sure it was quite a few. I seem to remember that one such serviceman was highly decorated. but i can't remember who he was.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

I believe you may be talking about Senator Daniel K. Inouye of Hawaii. He was in the 442 "Go for Broke" combat regiment during WWII. I believe he came out of that conflict as the most decorated soldier from that unit.

Old_Canuck
02-18-2004, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oak_Groove:
Don´t know if there were any ethnically isolated combat units of german ancestry in american service, i could imagine however that quite a number of germans/ german-americans were working for the U.S. espionage service at that time.

BTW, some figures on german immigration 1820-1959:

Decade | Total Immigration | German | ( % )

1820-29 | 128,502 | 5,753 | 4.5
1830-39 | 538,381 | 124,726 | 23.2
1840-49 | 1,427,337 | 385,434 | 27.0
1850-59 | 2,814,554 | 976,072 | 34.7
1860-69 | 2,081,261 | 723,734 | 34.8
1870-79 | 2,742,137 | 751,769 | 27.4
1880-89 | 5,248,568 | 1,445,181 | 27.5
1890-99 | 3,694,294 | 579,072 | 15.7
1900-09 | 8,202,388 | 328,722 | 4.0
1910-19 | 6,347,380 | 174,227 | 2.7
1920-29 | 4,295,510 | 386,634 | 9.0
1930-39 | 699,375 | 119,107 | 17.0
1940-49 | 856,608 | 117,506 | 14.0
1950-59 | 2,499,268 | 576,905 | 23.1

....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oak_Groove, don't confuse them with the facts, their minds are made up. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

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Copperhead310th
02-20-2004, 12:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kampfmeister:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
As for the Japanese there were quite a fre Japanese-Americain Soildeirs & Sailors in the US aremed services. I can't post any numbers but i'm sure it was quite a few. I seem to remember that one such serviceman was highly decorated. but i can't remember who he was.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

I believe you may be talking about Senator Daniel K. Inouye of Hawaii. He was in the 442 "Go for Broke" combat regiment during WWII. I believe he came out of that conflict as the most decorated soldier from that unit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep that's him. thanks.

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Mercyful_BR2000
02-20-2004, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gianordolli:


i dont have any knowledge of a German allied squad, the only foreigner pilot in Luftwaffe that i know at least it wasnt american, it was brazilian, his name was Egon Albrecht, i dont know if "Albrecht is right" and he was born in one brazilian state named "Curitiba"

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html

a good year to all italians!

[This message was edited by Gianordolli on Wed February 18 2004 at 12:02 AM.]

[This message was edited by Gianordolli on Wed February 18 2004 at 12:06 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


S!

Yes that information is correct, but im not sure if Egon was the only foreigner there.

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mercurey
02-21-2004, 10:58 AM
What about Marlene Dietrich?
She was with te american forces as a troop entertainer!