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View Full Version : IL-2 Sturmovik Busting- Weapon Effectiveness Tests



Dammerung
07-22-2004, 09:59 PM
First of all, I have several tracks, but no where to host them. Secondly...
I've been busting sturmoviks for the past Hour or so, testing weapon effectiveness. I've determined that damage is fairly random. Not even fairly, VERY. I started with the Hurricane IIc just to test out the Hispano vs The MG151(both 15 and 20). Besides random damage, I've determined several other things.
1) Sturmovik pilots were REALLY brave to step into the cockpit of that thing, I'm sure they all deserved to be called heroes of the Soviet union. Real brave souls they were.
2) I've been using the version with no gunner, but still, even Late war aircraft have a great difficulty taking it down. I have determined several weak spots, and several No no spots when busting these things.
Most imprortantly, I'm using the sturmovik as a "scale" for measuring actual damage the weapons in IL-2 do. I'll start off with what I've done already.

First up, the Bf109Z. First time i've flown it to, but with it's "Uber" guns, I figured it would be a good start. I can tell...
a) It eats Sturmoviks for Breakfast
b) It doesn't have a very big appetite.
The Mk108 cannons, while powerful, still take quite a few hits to bring down this bird. I havent done exstensive testing with it, as the limited ammo supply doesnt allow for good results. I'll try it with infinite later. I find the Mk108 to be an effective non dogfight weapon, and that it's purpose- Bomber Busting. I'd like someone else to get more accurate results, someone who's better with it than me

My second Aircraft was the FW190 with Dual MG151/20 Gunpods. I gotta say, with all the whining about the weapon, it's the most effective Sturmovik buster. I got 5 with a Normal ammo load. Granted, I did have six of the buggers. One thing that bothered me was, when I lined up the first Il2, I fired at Dead Six, very short Snapshot, blew his tail clean off, and down he went. Next one, firing right at the same spot, took almost 2.5 seconds of full guns at Convergance to take the tail off. Can you say random? That's a problem if you asked me. Not many rounds bounced off either. Compared to the minor testing I did with the 20mm Hispano, which clipped Sturmovik wings like hair. We have a big problem here...

I tried the 109E-4. The MG151/15 was weaker, obviously, but was it random? I never found out, cuz I ran out of Ammo, I'll try it infinite ammo later. After a good burst, both wings and the Fuselage were absolutely Riddled with Holes, but he stayed in formation, chugging along. Figured I'd use the 7.9s to finish him, it took a WHOLE LOT OF PEPPER to take it down. Understandable. I was able to take down another sturmovik with just the 7.9s. About the same amount of ammo I used in the previous one I busted up with the cannons. I figured I'd try another "Lightly Armed" bird, the Gladiator. With a Full load of Ammo, taking down even one was out the question. Even with infinite ammo it was just really tedious. I'm going to try a different bird for the .30s. I don't know about randomness(is that a word?) with the LMGs, I'll test more later.

I took it up a notch with the .50s. Starting with the B-239, Then P-47, then P-38. I had the best results in these aircraft. There was almost no question that the .50 cal is not only not very random, but can turn anything into swiss cheese. I figure if It can shred sturmoviks, it can shred anything. I got 2 with the B-239 easily. I stepped up to 8 M2s in the P47, and even WAY inside my 200m convergance(One set of 4 would smack the wing root, the other at the tip), sturmoviks were still swiss cheese. Unlike a cannon, You don't see any fatal damage right away. The first indication that something is wrong is when the pilot bails out, secondly when you fly over and see that more air is going through the aircraft than around it. I think that many .50 whiners probably have no credibility, cause they don't wait long enough for their prey to just take its time falling out the the sky. Most likely after the first few bursts the target is completely useless for combat, and will even struggle just to get across the lines to bail. My final test with the P38 did prove that the .50s were fairly random, but whoa, M2s in a battery in the nose firing at Hartmann range are NASTY. The first one I targeted lost it's entire tail almost instantly. The Second took a much longer burst, but found out that Sturmoviks, in the lower end of the tail, have a LOT of armor. .50s bounce off. The last two took a bit more to take down. I eventually sawed off the left wing. The third I ran out of Ammo, but it still started to go down, and a snapshot from the hispano took off the left aileron.

I will do more Gun tests later. I think that the damage is way too random for the most part, but I haven't even scratched the surface. I'd like for people to post tracks of them busting a certain type of Armored Aircraft(Hint: Not A6M. Hint No 2: Not 109). I'd like it once and for all, that the community figures out whether a lot of whiners just can't shoot, and that their weapon is really effective, and what REALLY needs Oleg's valuable time to fix. After all, the guy has a family, give him some time with 'em, this way, we can help prioritize both weapons and damage models that need serious fixing, not just whining in a thread that pops up. Just a "civilized" way to decide what needs fixing. And it really helps your slow speed Gunnery skills anyway, so you'll be a better shot. What do you all say to it? And besides, it's damn fun have just a regular old turkey shoot every once in awhile.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Dammerung
07-22-2004, 09:59 PM
First of all, I have several tracks, but no where to host them. Secondly...
I've been busting sturmoviks for the past Hour or so, testing weapon effectiveness. I've determined that damage is fairly random. Not even fairly, VERY. I started with the Hurricane IIc just to test out the Hispano vs The MG151(both 15 and 20). Besides random damage, I've determined several other things.
1) Sturmovik pilots were REALLY brave to step into the cockpit of that thing, I'm sure they all deserved to be called heroes of the Soviet union. Real brave souls they were.
2) I've been using the version with no gunner, but still, even Late war aircraft have a great difficulty taking it down. I have determined several weak spots, and several No no spots when busting these things.
Most imprortantly, I'm using the sturmovik as a "scale" for measuring actual damage the weapons in IL-2 do. I'll start off with what I've done already.

First up, the Bf109Z. First time i've flown it to, but with it's "Uber" guns, I figured it would be a good start. I can tell...
a) It eats Sturmoviks for Breakfast
b) It doesn't have a very big appetite.
The Mk108 cannons, while powerful, still take quite a few hits to bring down this bird. I havent done exstensive testing with it, as the limited ammo supply doesnt allow for good results. I'll try it with infinite later. I find the Mk108 to be an effective non dogfight weapon, and that it's purpose- Bomber Busting. I'd like someone else to get more accurate results, someone who's better with it than me

My second Aircraft was the FW190 with Dual MG151/20 Gunpods. I gotta say, with all the whining about the weapon, it's the most effective Sturmovik buster. I got 5 with a Normal ammo load. Granted, I did have six of the buggers. One thing that bothered me was, when I lined up the first Il2, I fired at Dead Six, very short Snapshot, blew his tail clean off, and down he went. Next one, firing right at the same spot, took almost 2.5 seconds of full guns at Convergance to take the tail off. Can you say random? That's a problem if you asked me. Not many rounds bounced off either. Compared to the minor testing I did with the 20mm Hispano, which clipped Sturmovik wings like hair. We have a big problem here...

I tried the 109E-4. The MG151/15 was weaker, obviously, but was it random? I never found out, cuz I ran out of Ammo, I'll try it infinite ammo later. After a good burst, both wings and the Fuselage were absolutely Riddled with Holes, but he stayed in formation, chugging along. Figured I'd use the 7.9s to finish him, it took a WHOLE LOT OF PEPPER to take it down. Understandable. I was able to take down another sturmovik with just the 7.9s. About the same amount of ammo I used in the previous one I busted up with the cannons. I figured I'd try another "Lightly Armed" bird, the Gladiator. With a Full load of Ammo, taking down even one was out the question. Even with infinite ammo it was just really tedious. I'm going to try a different bird for the .30s. I don't know about randomness(is that a word?) with the LMGs, I'll test more later.

I took it up a notch with the .50s. Starting with the B-239, Then P-47, then P-38. I had the best results in these aircraft. There was almost no question that the .50 cal is not only not very random, but can turn anything into swiss cheese. I figure if It can shred sturmoviks, it can shred anything. I got 2 with the B-239 easily. I stepped up to 8 M2s in the P47, and even WAY inside my 200m convergance(One set of 4 would smack the wing root, the other at the tip), sturmoviks were still swiss cheese. Unlike a cannon, You don't see any fatal damage right away. The first indication that something is wrong is when the pilot bails out, secondly when you fly over and see that more air is going through the aircraft than around it. I think that many .50 whiners probably have no credibility, cause they don't wait long enough for their prey to just take its time falling out the the sky. Most likely after the first few bursts the target is completely useless for combat, and will even struggle just to get across the lines to bail. My final test with the P38 did prove that the .50s were fairly random, but whoa, M2s in a battery in the nose firing at Hartmann range are NASTY. The first one I targeted lost it's entire tail almost instantly. The Second took a much longer burst, but found out that Sturmoviks, in the lower end of the tail, have a LOT of armor. .50s bounce off. The last two took a bit more to take down. I eventually sawed off the left wing. The third I ran out of Ammo, but it still started to go down, and a snapshot from the hispano took off the left aileron.

I will do more Gun tests later. I think that the damage is way too random for the most part, but I haven't even scratched the surface. I'd like for people to post tracks of them busting a certain type of Armored Aircraft(Hint: Not A6M. Hint No 2: Not 109). I'd like it once and for all, that the community figures out whether a lot of whiners just can't shoot, and that their weapon is really effective, and what REALLY needs Oleg's valuable time to fix. After all, the guy has a family, give him some time with 'em, this way, we can help prioritize both weapons and damage models that need serious fixing, not just whining in a thread that pops up. Just a "civilized" way to decide what needs fixing. And it really helps your slow speed Gunnery skills anyway, so you'll be a better shot. What do you all say to it? And besides, it's damn fun have just a regular old turkey shoot every once in awhile.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

WUAF_Badsight
07-22-2004, 10:40 PM
the wing cannon in the Emils are MG-FF

not MG151s

.
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Dammerung
07-22-2004, 11:20 PM
Hmm, thanks for the heads up. I take it that the Freidrich has the MG151s? Also, am finding that attacking a Sturmovik just below the rudder with HMGs is very effective... the MG131s are great for this... Going to try them against Fighters later, it seems to me like they are very under used, only as backup weapons...

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Weather_Man
07-22-2004, 11:32 PM
Of course the damage is random. There are no hit-boxes and you can't be certain you are hitting the exact same spot from the exact same angle at the exact same distance with each test. That makes for random results. On Sturmoviks, no less. The damage scenarios are endless with those.

I think you are perceiving a flaw that does not exist. I have a feeling you played a lot of CFS and are used to seeing the same thing happen everytime a plane dies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Hoarmurath
07-22-2004, 11:42 PM
When shooting down sturmovik, i noticed i had more regular results when aiming for mid wing. Don't work well with .30 mg though, as they bounce on armor.

Shoting down sturmovik with a MG151/20 is no problem, except that you need to survive the nasty sniper in the back seat. Trying to approach one is a Bf109 is quite suicidal.

Historically, the hispano 20mm was more powerful than the MG151/20, in FB i fount it to be more accurate atlong distances, and doing more structural damage.

The M2 MG are quite powerful, in 2.01 it was easy to snap wings and set engines or fuel tanks on fire. But their best part is that it is one of the best guns for deflection fire, easy to aim.

For the MK108, it's quite useless in dogfight, i prefer to have a MG151/20 because of the ammo load. Except if i'm on a bomber busting mission. The good point of the MK108 is not only its power, but its trajectory, you can engage viermots from farther, and stay out of the effective range of the defensive guns.

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dammerung
07-23-2004, 12:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weather_Man:
Of course the damage is random. There are no hit-boxes and you can't be certain you are hitting the exact same spot from the exact same angle at the exact same distance with each test. That makes for random results. On Sturmoviks, no less. The damage scenarios are endless with those.

I think you are perceiving a flaw that does not exist. I have a feeling you played a lot of CFS and are used to seeing the same thing happen everytime a plane dies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/smalltemptr/language/www/US/TX/Dallas.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never touched CFS. I'm expecting when I fire the same Munition into the same plane in the exact same place at the same speed and altitude that was shooting the last plane with, that I should get SIMILIAR effects... I don't see where you get off saying there are no hitboxes... not boxes, but the ENTIRE model is the box, I suppose with different sectors in it that all recieve damage differently- Dont know where you get off that I'm not hitting the "Same Place", when I'm at 70 meters shooting, checking I'm on target, and then continuing the burst. I'm not asking for exact same results... Just not wild.

Hoarmurath: The .30s seems to bounce off everything, but i'll try mid wing with .50s and 20mm... In 2.04 with the .50s though, they don't snap wings as easy, as Bullet damage has been reduced... While the Hispano 20mm is more deadly than the MG151/20, its much more powerful and even consistant than the MG151. I remember one time, in an He 162 on Airwars, I pegged a Yak-3 pretty hard it seemed with just one shot, he flipped over and dove into the forest. (I remember, cause I got in a little arguement with Stiglr about Magic Powers and Jets). Other times, I've gotten crazy amounts of hits with this weapon in wings, and tails, everywhere and there's barely even a fuel leak sometimes. IIRC, the MG151/20 was Erich Hartmann's Favorite weapon, he said it was very powerful, and consistantly took down soviet aircraft. And before anyone goes on about how he just preyed on Sturmovik Wing Roots, his main victims were all in La-5s. We need to be able to Depend on weapons. The problem with Mk108 whiners though, they dont realize that it's a Bomber killer gun, try hitting a B-17 with it more than a few times, and just see what happens. I'm messing with Light Machineguns a bit, and I think the ShKAS is slightly superior to others due to it's high rate of fire... I can take down four Me323s with it in an I-16 T18... Not too shabby actually. It seems to be somewhat dependable as well, Gonna try it against some other Early war fighters, P11, 109E, Gladatior, Cr42...

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...