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Sgt.Aryan
03-22-2004, 02:16 PM
Hello. I'm a relatively new member to the community, however, I used to play Il2 all the time when it first came out.

At that time, I was a pretty decent flyer, however, I took a pretty long break til just recently.

In my previous experience, I flew Yaks, and LA's exclusively (yes, lame, I know), and now I am interested in 109s exclusively (since I hate ponies, and I can't get the hang of 190s.. They roll too fast, and turn too slow, and the MGs mounted on the nose drive me crazy)

I was wondering how one might train his BnZ tactics outside of QMB which does next to nothing for me...

Are there any Ace BnZers that can give me some pointers, or possibly movies of how they conduct business?

I'd be much abliged if anyone could start me out.

Thanks in advance

-Aryan

Sgt.Aryan
03-22-2004, 02:16 PM
Hello. I'm a relatively new member to the community, however, I used to play Il2 all the time when it first came out.

At that time, I was a pretty decent flyer, however, I took a pretty long break til just recently.

In my previous experience, I flew Yaks, and LA's exclusively (yes, lame, I know), and now I am interested in 109s exclusively (since I hate ponies, and I can't get the hang of 190s.. They roll too fast, and turn too slow, and the MGs mounted on the nose drive me crazy)

I was wondering how one might train his BnZ tactics outside of QMB which does next to nothing for me...

Are there any Ace BnZers that can give me some pointers, or possibly movies of how they conduct business?

I'd be much abliged if anyone could start me out.

Thanks in advance

-Aryan

BlitzPig_DDT
03-22-2004, 03:03 PM
The 109s got hosed in 2.0. At 600kph the elevator is barely usable. At 650+ you need trim and about 10 minutes to pull out (slight exaggeration, but you get the point).

This rather severely limits their effectiveness as BnZ planes unless you are diving on a target that is just traveling along, totally oblivious.

You're better off getting into a slow speed engagement with enemies now and using the spiral climb. Just be very carefull of being at lower E than the other guy.

As for how it's done, it's pretty basic. Find someone who doesn't see you, the less they are manevuering the better, like people running for home or trying to get into the furball. Make sure you are well above them, dive on them, blast 'em, and climb out.

Just make sure that you pull gently (not an issue in 109s anymore, you don't have that choice now). If you start blacking out, you are pulling too many Gs, too high an AoA and bleeding speed.

Once you get an idea of opponent's E state and their relative climb performance in that E state, you can judge how you complete the zoom, and even if you want to go into it right away or not.

Practice is the best way. Try the campaign. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

==================================
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XyZspineZyX
03-22-2004, 03:08 PM
It's very simple in theory, but harder in practice because there's a lot of discipline involved.

1) Insist on having an altitude advantage. You can't b&z without an energy advantage, and this is best realized by diving in on your opponent.

2) Pick a target below you, preferably from up sun, so he doesn't see you. Other priority targets are already-engaged planes (concentrating on someone else).

3) Dive in on the enemy, preferably a controllable, shallow dive instead of a steep one.

4) Point your nose along the enemy's path if he's going straight...or if he's turning, perhaps keep your perch until you can figure out where he's headed or what his intentions are..then dive to get there just behind him.

5) Get a nice shot while at high speed and overtake (the boom). If the enemy sees you and break turns, only follow it if you can still get the shot within about 1/3 of a circle. Otherwise, break off and save your energy.

6) Climb away, preferably in a shallow, straight climbout (the zoom). You have much more speed than your enemy, so he should not be able to follow you. If you are alone with the enemy, you might risk a sharper pullup, then dive right back to the attack. This will greatly reduce your energy advantage, and more so the more you reverse back, so only do this when you KNOW you're alone with your prey and he's unlikely to get any help in the form of planes higher than your combat.

7) In the case of a textbook shallow extention, use the time to reasess your situation. Look around, and don't get fixated on your enemy. He's well behind you, out of range and no threat, if you've done your extention properly. The highest enemy plane, or one with most speed is the greatest threat. You may have to give up on your original target if another plane becomes the top threat.

8) Reverse on your target and repeat.

That's basically the boom and zoom

Sgt.Aryan
03-22-2004, 03:50 PM
Hmm, well i've got that down to a tee then...

My problem is I can't hit the broad side of a barn..


The problem lies within my Joystick.

When I'm trying to target someone, my crosshair keep bouncing around like DDs in a footrace.

is there a way to smooth my joystick out a bit?

I've tried filtering it, but that only gets me killed....

Caek
03-22-2004, 04:24 PM
Try hitting Shift+F1.

03-22-2004, 04:37 PM
There are two paths:

1) Give up the 109, pick some other plane that has good high-speed maneuverability and BnZ all day..

2) Start experimenting with the 109, and develop methods other than BnZ that work.


Personally, I advise you to take the second path. It is the path of enlightment, an opening to different possibilities of various combat tactics suitable for all situations.

However, the first path is usually easier. You can BnZ all day in a safe-house with humongous amount of alt at your hands, and then either run away at the first sight of a co-alt enemy, or get shot down by a guy who's higher than you. At any rate, the survivability rate is definately higher for the first path.

..

Tully__
03-22-2004, 04:55 PM
If you're still using the default joystick sensitivity settings you're likely to suffer this sort of problem. You can access them in the game via the Hardware Setup / Input buttons.

Before starting, back up the file "conf.ini" from your game directory.

If the sliders for pitch are not already set up that way, try setting them to

1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, 100

Also, private topic for you here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=25510001&m=524107392&r=524107392#524107392)

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
03-22-2004, 11:02 PM
Add DEADBAND to your Y axis (up and down); that will cure a lot of the "bobbles".

Sgt.Aryan
03-22-2004, 11:06 PM
@Stiglr - How do you change between the two axai/i/whatever?


@Tully - Agh, it's not, but ok....

TheJoyStick
03-22-2004, 11:08 PM
Is this sufficient, Tully?

TheJoyStick
03-23-2004, 12:51 AM
Ugh, wish I had an edit button.. Feels weird tripple posting...

ANYWAY - Update -


Thank you SO MUCH you two, I can now kill things in QMB.

Time to hone my 109 skills (dispite the negative reviews, I <3 the plane in-game, as it's fast, reliable, powerfull, and stable, and now I can use it...

Rajvosa
03-23-2004, 01:02 AM
And here's a new expression - Zoom and Boom! That's the AEP P-51 in a dive. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Regards,

Jasko

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"I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise." - James T. Kirk

sobolan
03-23-2004, 01:10 AM
Well, try also the 190D, the DORA...great dive and zoom and heavier punch than the Mustang.

If you do it right, the Lame-7 flyiers from DF servers will name you "coward" who knows only to hit and run http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif...especiallya after they will try to follow you in the zoom climb only to discover that because you started it at 800-900km/h and they only at 400-500km/h after a while they will have to fall like a leaf, moment at which you just have to fall down on them...short burst and they are history.

http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~socrate/b17.jpg

Tully__
03-23-2004, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheJoyStick:
Is this sufficient, Tully?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That'll do fine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Salut
Tully

Tully__
03-23-2004, 01:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sgt.Aryan:
@Stiglr - How do you change between the two axai/i/whatever?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the top left corner of the input screen, you select which axis you're adjusting using the drop down axis menu.

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Salut
Tully

AFJ_Locust
03-23-2004, 02:05 AM
Ask Gibbage hes the Master of B&Z http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

F19_Ob
03-23-2004, 02:37 AM
Remember also thet there is variants with the BnZ tactic and that the 109 also have a decent, although limited turn.


When U get Ur deflection skills to a higher level U might want to try this; Attack a target that have spotted u and in the attack convert Ur speed into a single hard turn inside the enemies, pull the nescessary deflection and clip his wing. This ofcourse require good deflectionskill bcause if u miss u are in big trouble being low on E.

TheJoyStick
03-23-2004, 12:36 PM
Actually, Ob, I already do that sometimes...

Now that my JS is smoother, I ca do it more effectively, and it actually works quite well.

Spinne_3.-JG51
03-23-2004, 02:57 PM
Tullyk, I like your choice of numbers !!

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"Come on in, I'll treat you nice! I used to know your father."

Tully__
03-24-2004, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spinne_3.-JG51:
Tullyk, I like your choice of numbers !!

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg

"Come on in, I'll treat you nice! I used to know your father."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


They aren't mine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. That's a basic exponential curve and is best suited as a starting point.

I use:

Pitch: 22 28 37 45 54 65 77 88 97 100
Roll: 13 21 28 39 53 65 77 88 96 100

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Salut
Tully

Gershy
03-24-2004, 07:28 AM
have been messing around with settings for quite a long time as well. Tried yours just now Tully. I like them. Thnx for posting them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

Mitlov47
03-24-2004, 11:58 AM
What are the best choices for B&Z? FW190 A-series? FW190 D-series? P-47? What do most B&Zers use, and why?

---------------------------

(aka Mitlov on HyperLobby and Ubi)

P-38J -- "A Sorta Fairytale"
P-63C -- "Jackie's Strength"

Snow_Wolf_
03-24-2004, 12:26 PM
I use the Fw-190 booming and zooming. Since i can do a quick roll over and pull a underloop and be right behind the nme six, fire and climb away. Now I also use the 110 with mg-151 pods but with the 110 you will need a wingmen (which in away is always good to have one) since if your first pass fails to nail the target you can still have someone high covering you in case that guy start climbing with you.

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Vortex_uk
03-24-2004, 03:39 PM
The planes i use for BnZing are ...

Fw-190 A-9/8
Ta-152
YP-80 ( its fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif )
P-51
Bf-110 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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JV44Rall
03-24-2004, 04:04 PM
If you're gonna boom n' zoom, take the 190A9 w/Mk108s. One pass kills are possible, very possible.

Sobolan, great sig. Move the mainwing and canard forward and I bet it'd fly! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

My impressions of the last two months revolve around dawns. Pink dawns, grey dawns, misty, rainy and windy dawns, but always dawns; first light. Shadowy Spitfires and quietness . . . . Geoffrey Wellum, First Light.