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View Full Version : New climbtests, make of it what you want...



robban75
02-07-2004, 02:59 AM
Yes I know, another La-7 climbtest, does this guy ever stop? The answer is,, no!

This time I decided to use CEM for the La-7, and the difference above 3000m was unbelievable!
See for yourself!

Old climbtimes.

1000m - 0:39
2000m - 1:21
3000m - 2:08
4000m - 3:13
5000m - 4:11

New climbtimes. Closed radiators, full throttle.

1000m - 0:38
2000m - 1:19
3000m - 2:08
4000m - 2:58
5000m - 3:48
6000m - 4:41
7000m - 5:48
8000m - 7:11
9000m - 9:00

My book says the production La-7 reached 5000m in 5:25 minutes while in FB it does it in 3:48!

Now for the overheat(OH) times and engine damage(ED) time.

La-7

OH - 5:54
ED - 10:10

D-9

OH - 2:40
ED - 7:45

Comments?

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

[This message was edited by robban75 on Sat February 07 2004 at 08:47 AM.]

robban75
02-07-2004, 02:59 AM
Yes I know, another La-7 climbtest, does this guy ever stop? The answer is,, no!

This time I decided to use CEM for the La-7, and the difference above 3000m was unbelievable!
See for yourself!

Old climbtimes.

1000m - 0:39
2000m - 1:21
3000m - 2:08
4000m - 3:13
5000m - 4:11

New climbtimes. Closed radiators, full throttle.

1000m - 0:38
2000m - 1:19
3000m - 2:08
4000m - 2:58
5000m - 3:48
6000m - 4:41
7000m - 5:48
8000m - 7:11
9000m - 9:00

My book says the production La-7 reached 5000m in 5:25 minutes while in FB it does it in 3:48!

Now for the overheat(OH) times and engine damage(ED) time.

La-7

OH - 5:54
ED - 10:10

D-9

OH - 2:40
ED - 7:45

Comments?

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

[This message was edited by robban75 on Sat February 07 2004 at 08:47 AM.]

kyrule2
02-07-2004, 03:33 AM
The only comment that comes to mind is;

At least BoB won't have any VVS aircraft.



http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

3./JG51_Hunde
http://www.jg51.com/

WUAF_Badsight
02-07-2004, 04:25 AM
another Robban test !

one question the plz ...... how did you use the CEM ?

when i fly the LA-7 i set the proppitch to 100%

it only gets reduced when i want to slow for landing

you are meaning you changed the prop-pitch when you say you used CEM ?

also i play with the RAD settings when testing Top-Speed as i try to keep Overheat away but then close for for max speed achieveable

WUAF_Badsight
02-07-2004, 04:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:

Comments? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes .........

why does the LA-7 perform so well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robban75
02-07-2004, 04:37 AM
Actually the only thing I did was swift the supercharger manually at 2700m. I left it at 100% pitch as reducing the prop pitch only took performance away. I left the raditors closed all the way as it took ages to overheat it anyways, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Nevertheless it climbs like a homesick angel, it even betters the D-9 from 5000m to 8000m(!), but only slightly.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Skalgrim
02-07-2004, 05:13 AM
0-2000m had la-7 powerloading advantage

2000m has both plane same powerlaoding

above 2000m until 4400m has dora powerloding advantage

4500m has again both plane same powerloading

and above la-7 has advantage, but not so strong like sealevel

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Sat February 07 2004 at 05:26 AM.]

LEXX_Luthor
02-07-2004, 05:26 AM
Yep, I got ~4 minutes to 5km using the aircraft clock, give or take say 1/4 minute because of that. I need a new watch before I do this stuff again.

robban you changed Sources. The last time we did this, the Source quoted by everybody was the aircraft data in FB website, which is 4.5 minutes to 5km. Why the sudden change in Source?

Also, there was an issue, avoided by the Board, about if the real life La7 tests used the "boost" or did not. I just used "boost" because that is what we use in the dogfight servers. Oleg said the "La~7 tests," which ones I dunno, did not use the "boost." Anyway, with "boost" LA7 (may) climb too fast if the real tests used "boost" too.

My book, Bill Gunsten, says 4.5 minutes to 5km. Of course, he also gives Yak~28P maximum speed as about Mach 1.1 to Mach 1.4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Also, I think I porked my previous La~7 tests late last year at high altitude, as I do not remember using the fuel mix, while the K4 does that auto. So the La7 in the game does better hi than I thought. I was new to CEM at the time, and I was engaging MW50 after throttling up and that disasterously ruined a number of my K4 tests.



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight

robban75
02-07-2004, 05:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>robban you changed Sources. The last time we did this the Source quoted by everybody was the aircraft data in FB website, which is 4.5 minutes to 5km. Why the sudden change in Source?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recently purchased the book "Soviet combat aircraft of the second world war" By Yefim Gordon and Dmitri Khazanov. Production La-7's differed very much in terms of performance from prototypes. The prototype managed 5000m in 4.45 minutes, but the series produced machines needed 5.1 minutes to do the same. The 45' version of the La-7 needed 5.3 minutes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LEXX_Luthor
02-07-2004, 05:44 AM
Sounds good, Thanks.

Now, boosted or non~boosted?

How does the prototype Dora compare with production Dora?



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight

robban75
02-07-2004, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also, there was an _issue_, avoided by the Board, about if the real life La7 tests used the "boost" or did not. I just used "boost" because that is what we use in the dogfight servers. Oleg said the "La~7 tests," which ones I dunno, did not use the "boost." Anyway, with "boost" LA7 (may) climb too fast if the real tests used "boost" too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but wasn't the "Forsazh" avaliable only up to 2000 meters? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LEXX_Luthor
02-07-2004, 06:01 AM
I dunno. I use it all over the place. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Tell more.

btw at our climb speed tests, I don't think radiator open or closed should make a difference [in flight performance], assuming the open rad in FB really does hurt more at higher speeds compared to lower speeds. [hmmm]

I am gonna have to get back into doing this stuff, when the Biplanes come out, I will be a busy little bee. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight

Jippo01
02-07-2004, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
I recently purchased the book "Soviet combat aircraft of the second world war" By Yefim Gordon and Dmitri Khazanov. Production La-7's differed very much in terms of performance from prototypes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. Prototypes ar far different compared to production models. Proto Ju88 did 1000km trip with 2000kg load with average speed of 517kmh 1939. Maximum sustanable for production Ju-88's in 1942 was about 450kmh without load. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think even La-7 should be modelled according to production- not prototypes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Or alternatively model all planes according to proto specs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

robban75
02-07-2004, 06:57 AM
More climbtests.

La-5(not F or FN)

1000m - 0:47
2000m - 1:32
3000m - 2:25
4000m - 3:26
5000m - 4:30(RL 6min)
6000m - 5:36
7000m - 6:54

Overheat time, none, the La-5 didn't overheat at all, not within 10 minutes using full power and rad's closed.

Bf 109G-2, Check out this climbfreak!!!

1000m - 0:43
2000m - 1:24
3000m - 2:07
4000m - 2:49
5000m - 3:32(!)
6000m - 4:19

OH time, 3 minutes.

P-39Q-10

1000m - 0:58
2000m - 1:49
3000m - 2:41
4000m - 3:33
5000m - 4:33(!)
6000m - 5:46

OH time, 3 minutes.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

robban75
02-07-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>How does the prototype Dora compare with production Dora?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure, but the russian had no problems reaching 600km/h at low altitudes with captured D-9's.
I've also read other reports from pilots reaching 605km/h IAS at "beerbottle" height, fully loaded with fuel and ammunition, aswell as centerline fuel tank rack.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Zen--
02-07-2004, 08:16 AM
Robban,

Out of curiousity, what were the VVS recorded climb times for the P39 in real life?


And I like this statement:


"The only comment that comes to mind is;

At least BoB won't have any VVS aircraft."



(But do you think that the Spit will be the equivalent of the La7 in terms of uber-ocity?)

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

robban75
02-07-2004, 09:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
Robban,

Out of curiousity, what were the VVS recorded climb times for the P39 in real life?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The object viewer says the P-39Q-10 climbed to 5000m in 5.9 minutes, and the P-39Q-1 climbed to 6000m in 8.1 minutes. The P-39 has been degraded in the last patches but its climbrate still seems off though.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

S77th-brooks
02-08-2004, 11:24 AM
object viewer says f4 as turn time of 18 sec same as LA7 LOL,G2 SHOULD HAVE 3.1 CLIMB TIME to 3000,i wood like to se object viewer ture to what it says

Skalgrim
02-09-2004, 06:20 AM
interessting, 44 dora seem little faster as 45 dora

http://jagdhund.homestead.com/files/DoraData/horizontalgeschwindigkeiten.htm

Sonder-Notleistung (c3), that has 44 dora in game

615km/h with bombrack sealevel

621km/h without bombrack

dora with mw50 606km/h sealevel with bombrack, 612km/h without

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Mon February 09 2004 at 08:36 AM.]

Aaron_GT
02-11-2004, 06:34 AM
Robban - what throttle settings did you use
to get 3:48, and what settings did the Russian
tests use to get 5:25? It might be like the old
LW WEP versus climb power settings debate.

robban75
02-11-2004, 06:50 AM
I use 110% throttle and WEP on all my climbtests. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

In my reference book("Soviet combat aircraft of the second world war" By Yefim Gordon and Dmitri Khazanov) the topspeeds are with augmented power, and I guess that so is time to alt aswell. But of course, I could be wrong.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

MatuDa_
02-11-2004, 07:27 AM
The fact that LA:s almost never overheat gives the vvs a big edge vesus contemporary okl planes. Maybe this will also catch 1c:s eyes and be fixed in the addon

BBB_Hyperion
06-10-2004, 02:35 AM
Robban75 when you want to help out making more detailed tests you can contact me via PT. I can give you some tools to work with then and show you some of the first results as well.

Regards,
Hyperion

Tipo_Man
06-10-2004, 03:24 AM
Robban,
What exactly is your point? That La-5/7 is overmodelled in climbing? This has been discussed a lot and finally Oleg said that if someone shows him a track of La-5 climbing in less than 4,7min to 5000 he will change it. In a few hours several people sent him tracks of La-5 climbing in less than 4min to 5000m, and Oleg (as a real man http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif )really kept his word and dumbed it down. Do you remember that thread? This was before the AEP release I think.

Like you pointed out currently all planes climb quite too well. But there is quite accurate relative climb performance i.e how planes climb comparing to each other. Bf-109G2 outclimbs everything(except K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ) like it should be. La-5 climbs better than Yak-1 and MiG-3 and comparable to F4 like it should be.

Why don't you test other planes and bring the results here. Test P-51, P-39, Ki-84 and
Right now P-51N20 has 24m/s initial climb !!! Should be less than 20m/s.

you can also use IL2Compare which is quite useful in some cases...

..and you'll see that La-7 is actually undermodelled in climb rate comparing its adversaries.

Well you've bought a book about soviet planes and are quite ready to discuss their performance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Here is some more data for you :
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/files/Soviet_Planes_with_serial_numbers.htm

So if you are trying to say that climb rates are not correct in the game I agree. But claiming that La-7 is the sole overmodelled plane was correct one year ago... Currently it is not.

faustnik
06-10-2004, 10:33 AM
Tipo,

Robban never claimed that the La7 was the only a/c with a climb issue. Read further down the thread before making accusations. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com) is recruiting
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

IV_JG51_Razor
06-10-2004, 02:48 PM
In all these threads about times to climb, I've never once seen anything said about what climb speed you all are using. Is there a source somewhere that gives that information for all the different a/c in FB? It would sure be nice to know what the best glide speeds, stall speeds, climb speeds were for each plane, not to mention flap extension, gear extension speeds, etc.

If you're not using the individual airplane's best rate of climb speed, then those times mean nothing.

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

KGr.HH-Sunburst
06-11-2004, 04:08 AM
good question razor i would like to see a graph/sheet about best climb speed aswell
im a n00b when it comes to numbers so some info about that would be nice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i dont know if the best climbs speed data for all FB a/c is in Il2 compare?
if so could someone give me a link to the proggie ?

EDIT: forum search sux http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sigp51-D9.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

JG5_UnKle
06-12-2004, 04:52 AM
S! Sunburst-97th

You can download IL-2C from my Spit vs 109 page by clicking here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/spit_turn.htm)

Look for the Zip link on the left, pretty easy to work out once unzipped http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg
JG5 Main Site (http://www.alucinor.com/eismeer)
Public Forum (http://www.alucinor.com/eismeer/forum)

Kwiatos
06-12-2004, 07:47 AM
As i said many times before IL2 compare is not true in climb rate and turn rate. These is data from tested plane controlled by AI. More accurate are own test. It will be fine if someone will make test for most popular planes and show it.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
06-12-2004, 11:05 AM
i know that Kwiatos and im not gonna use it for showing data as proof but rather as a indication about best climb speed for certain planes

BTW thanks for the link Unkle ~S~ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sigp51-D9.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

dadada1
06-14-2004, 03:48 AM
Its a shame that so many AC in FB have overdone climb rates, surley if they are ALL adjusted down to their real levels, everything would still be proportionate and there would be no cause for complaint.

WWMaxGunz
06-15-2004, 11:25 AM
Maybe a shame there's no climb dial to turn down without making the
planes too slow and/or turn too slow, etc, etc....

bodaw
06-17-2004, 07:45 AM
Some of us truly took our time to get that best climb rate airspeeds(Vy) in FB. For example the planes that I've tested, I'd start from 100 meters to 1000 meters, then 1000 meters to 2000 meters at different airspeeds. The airspeed that gives the lowest amount of time, while the settings are equal my friend is your "Best Climb Rate Airspeed" or Vy.

Once you get the Vy, you could use it at any altitude. V Speeds do not change with altitude.