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wor_raven
03-20-2004, 12:06 AM
Mr. olag thanks for a very nice game sir.
But I must say I feel the gun modeling is off on the ki lc now. are they two 108 canons on the wings? if so i cant find a sourse to back it up .If they are 30mm cannons then since when to 30mm rounds from ww2 explode like that from
700 meters out. it looks like a nuke is going off. as far as the fly model is conserned its really fine just the silly guns . If I am incorect please tell me why... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

wor_raven
03-20-2004, 12:06 AM
Mr. olag thanks for a very nice game sir.
But I must say I feel the gun modeling is off on the ki lc now. are they two 108 canons on the wings? if so i cant find a sourse to back it up .If they are 30mm cannons then since when to 30mm rounds from ww2 explode like that from
700 meters out. it looks like a nuke is going off. as far as the fly model is conserned its really fine just the silly guns . If I am incorect please tell me why... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

03-20-2004, 12:56 AM
Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank"


TYPE: Single engine fighter

CREW: One

ENGINE:
The following engines were used by the Ki.84-I as availability permitted:

Ha-45-11, rated at 1,800hp for take-off and 1,650hp at 6,560ft.
Ha-45-12, rated at 1,925hp for take-off and 1,670hp at 7,875ft.
Ha-45-21, rated at 1,990hp for take-off and 1,850hp at 5,740ft.
Ha-45-23, rated at 1,900hp for take-off and 1,670hp at 4,725ft.

DIMENTIONS:
Wingspan:
36ft. 10 7/16in.

Length:
3ft. 6 9/16in.

Height:
11ft. 1in.

Wing area:
226 sq.ft.

WEIGHT:
Empty weight:
5,864lb.
Loaded weight:
7,955lb.
Maximum weight:
8,576lb.

Wing loading:
35.1lb./sq.ft.

PERFORMANCE: (Using a Ha-45-23, rated at 1,900hp for take-off and 1,670hp at 4,725ft.)

Maximum speed:
392mph at 20,000ft.

Sea level speed:
350-360mph

Initial climb:
3,600ft. per minute

Range:
1,050 miles

ARMAMENT:
Ia:
Wing mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon with 150 rounds per gun
Fuselage mounted:
Two 12.7mm Type 1 (Ho-103) machine gun with 350 rounds per gun
Ib:
Wing mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon with 150 rounds per gun
Fuselage mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon
Ic:
Wing mounted:
Two 30mm Ho-105 cannon
Fuselage mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon

EXTERNAL STORES:
Two 250kg bombs, or two 44 gallon drop tanks, or one 44 gallon drop tank to port and one 250kg bomb to starboard

NUMBER BUILT:
3,514

Fillmore
03-20-2004, 03:42 AM
The site I found says that the correct designation is Ho-155 (-I and -II versions), and that Ho-105, and Ho-151 are sometimes used in error. Anyway it was 10kg lighter has higher velocity, lower ROF and lower projectile weight than MK108. It had no relation to the MK108, the design was derived from a lighter Japanese cannon, which itself was derived from the Browning .50

PikeBishop
03-20-2004, 04:17 AM
Dear all,
Here we go again!...Ki84 bashing. I'm beginning to feel that I am being sucked into a one-man protest campaigne feeling sorry for the Ki84......(I'm not mad you know....s******...!)
As I said in one of my earlier posts the japs were very good at building exceptional warplane designs. There were just not many built. I can't speak for damage effects or armament types, but I can't help feeling that every time this aircraft is mentioned 10,000 hungry wolves are ready to pounce and say "yes its too good!" (forgive me but I also feel that most are U.S. but I might be wrong..)
Oleg has it right as far as I am concerned. Wherever his sources come from I don't think he would not consider them VERY seriously.
If and when the Raiden, Shiden and KI 100 enter the arena the same thing is going to happen mark my words.
When the KI84 came into service it was a shock to the allies the same as the Zero was except that more of them were built. Therefore the Zero became more of a myth.
The 84 is a good warplane, it was feared, was strong and it did pack a punch. It was a good all rounder and was MORE than a match for the FINEST American types. Let's keep it that way.

Regards,

SLP

chris455
03-20-2004, 09:22 AM
Don'y you worry Pike Bishop. You're FAR from alone defending this AC. The Conjoined Nakajima Twins (they know who they are) are never more than a post away from defending this (what is it being called now? "cheese-dipped air toy"? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif) whenever someone attacks their beloved mount.

If it behaved as true to it's actual performance ABOVE 7k as it does below, most folks wouldn't have a problem. And while the veracity of it's damage model is conjectural (as damage models tend to be) I think most people agree at this point that it's survivabilty is on the optimistic side.

The bottom line is that the Ki-84 actually has more accuracies in it's modelling than inaccuracies, but it is becoming somewhat of a "cause celebre" among <<some>> online fliers who cannot cope without it's overstated peformance envelope. Conversely, it is increasingly demonized by people who concentrate on those aspects of it's performance that are exaggerated, ignoring the fact that, for the "most part", Oleg actually got it right.

The continued controversy chiefly benefits the latter group, by calling so much attention to the the Ki-84s modelling , good, bad , or indifferent. It increases the chance that it's modelling will be changed, and it can hardly be changed in a way to increase it's capabilities, now can it?
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
03-20-2004, 12:12 PM
personally i dont fly the Hayate that much as i have never liked to DF with planes that have a fast roll rate

but the KI-84 whining is not only bloated unbelieveably out of proportion but is also rediculous

its like the people posting think the japanese were backwards country hick with no tecnical capabilitys at all

then theres the american dummie fanboys with enormous ego's / chips-on-their-shoulders about
1) WW2 being won in the pacific by their country
2) american planes

these people all seem to live on fantasy island & only left it to buy FB

reading the difficulties they have against the Hayate isnt comical(tho it does make me laugh) its sad for them

they truely believe they are right

ZG77_Nagual
03-20-2004, 12:44 PM
In my humble opinion the zero was not as good a plane, in it's time, as the ki84 was in it's.

The zero was manned by the most highly trained pilots on the planet when it hit the air. Moreover - it's oponents subscribed to an antiquated air-combat doctrine that favored the zeros strengths, had less experience and training, much less time in type and were in a defensive position. Once pilots sorted the zero out they did well against it.

The Ki, a truly superior aircraft, did not have such a pool of pilots, was up against a more highly evolved combat doctrine, and was subject to manufacturing defects caused by bombing of japanese factories.

This article has some interesting perspectives on the Zero.

In summary - the Ki84 was a superior plane placed at a disadvantage by circumstance. The Zero was a pretty good plane placed at an advantage by circumstance.

P40article (http://www.yarchive.net/mil/p40.html)

VW-IceFire
03-20-2004, 03:01 PM
Well said. Excellent perspective on the Ki and the Zero. Fascinating peices of history to be sure.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

VW-IceFire
03-20-2004, 10:18 PM
Please have a look at this page: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

"Late in the war, the Japanese Army had a good 30mm cannon in the Ho-155, sometimes erroneously referred to as Ho-105 or even Ho-151. It was a scaled-up derivative of the Ho-5, itself a derivative of the Browning. Late in the war, the Ho-155 appeared on bomber destroyer versions of some of the best Japanese Army fighters, such as the Ki-61 and Ki-84, but it seems to have seen little combat use."

That should answer all your questions and show you how similar the MK108 and the Ho-155 are and why you see similar results from both cannons.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Korolov
03-20-2004, 10:21 PM
Give yourself 4 average AI Zekes to shoot at with a P-38, then try the same against 4 average AI Franks. I guarentee the Zekes will be harder opponents.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
03-20-2004, 10:51 PM
Nah forget AI.



__________________
Flyable Gladiator listed as "J8A"


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif