PDA

View Full Version : A question of PC POWER



C J BEATTIE
06-14-2004, 03:14 PM
OK the E3 showing was on a powerhouse of a computer...

SO what specs do we need to run this thing "everything setting up high" etc??

I have a P4 2.4 with 512 ram but only have a gf4 mmx graphics card.. (pansy power as UK magazine PC zone call it) lol...

will we all need to by super high end and super expensive graphics cards to run this game??? the graphics are stunning from the video i only hope my system will run it...Resolution i dont care about however i would like to run it with all the other options turned up high if possible...

Anyone know?

Devlopers enlighten this worried Uboat hopeful pleasehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C J B

C J BEATTIE
06-14-2004, 03:14 PM
OK the E3 showing was on a powerhouse of a computer...

SO what specs do we need to run this thing "everything setting up high" etc??

I have a P4 2.4 with 512 ram but only have a gf4 mmx graphics card.. (pansy power as UK magazine PC zone call it) lol...

will we all need to by super high end and super expensive graphics cards to run this game??? the graphics are stunning from the video i only hope my system will run it...Resolution i dont care about however i would like to run it with all the other options turned up high if possible...

Anyone know?

Devlopers enlighten this worried Uboat hopeful pleasehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C J B

ingsoc41
06-14-2004, 03:18 PM
Hello....I dont consider the gforce 4 Mx440 a "pansy" card with 126 ram....at one point it was THE card.and it still does WONDERS with most all games.........I want sh3 to play well..and am toying with the idea of a new card...but Id ont want to get sh3 playing "with all bells and whistles" only to find my other games wont work or drivers noncompatable and lock up problems.its a tough mixture....moving on to sh3 does not mean I want to leave my MOhaa.call of duty..battlefield games..IL2 and forgetten battles sitting collecting dust as they are incredible games.....I'd prefer to stick with nvidia chipsets as they seem to be the benchmark chipset most companies work with.but still...time marches on and I want to be able to play this game...Ithink the solution is to wait and see how it perfoms withthe gforce4 mx440 128 and then make the call

mog_tr
06-14-2004, 07:53 PM
I don't really know what I'm talking about, but SHIII may very well use some pretty funky features that limited edition MX cards may not have.

WhiteKnight77
06-14-2004, 08:36 PM
Unfortunately, MX cards will not be able to play more and more games. Splinter Cell is a really good example of this problem. The biggest reason is that they do not support shader programs and in early cases of GF2 MX cards, hardware transform and lighting. The GF 4 MX cards are just rebadged GF2 MX cards with a bit more memory and higher clock speeds. My old GF3 is faster than the GF 4 MX cards.

While I don't play MoH:AA or any BF games, I do play FB (wrote a fair report of it for GR.net even) and CoD along with SC and NASCAR Racing Series 2003 Season, they all run real well (terrific even on my rig even with AA and AF on) with my rig. My specs (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064) will show that you will be able to use a decent system and still be able to play older games, heck I still play some Rainbow Six and Rogue Spear some with this rig.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/index.html) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

ParaB
06-15-2004, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ingsoc41:
Hello....I dont consider the gforce 4 Mx440 a "pansy" card with 126 ram....at one point it was THE card.and it still does WONDERS with most all games.........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The GF4MX series were never good cards for gaming. They are cheap, low-end GFX cards usually found in non-gaming systems and are actually slower then GF3 cards and lack DX 8 effects.

The "GF4"label was used by NVidia to lure in the not-so-knowledgeable people who thought they'd get a real GF4 at a low price...

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 12:06 AM
How do I determine if my motherboard will handle an 8agp card such as the Nvidia fx5950? my geforce Mx440 with 128 ram on the box says supports 2 and 4x.but how do I know my system will run this board.or even take advantage of all the features? Im running a gateway P4 1.8 with almost 1gig of SDRam...5.1 soundcard..

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 12:11 AM
Just determined that my motherboard supports 4agp slot..does this mean a card like the fx5950 which requires or supports 8agp will not work or just that it will not work as well?

TASKFORCE1x1
06-15-2004, 12:12 AM
C J BEATTIE your pc alone should be able to run the game no problem but its mostly all in the graphics card. I have kept all my older computers and all of which I have built from the ground up. I have various video cards which I use. On the older PCs I put the older cards. I noticed in SHII I would see things missing depending on what screen I'm on. If it were the periscope screen I see some things not even drawn in possibly due to lack of video ram. Your best bet is to wait till the DEMO comes out and test then. Or you can get a benchmark program to test ahead of time. If $money$ isnt a problem I would beef up the pc. Max your ram! this is important because the more ram u have (both video and system ram) the less your PC has to fetch data like texture files and models from your hard disk. You will be faster with more installed. So get the next to the highest videocard. Search maybe pricewatch or nextag.com for best prices on new or used videocards. You also might want to get the latest 128 bit soundcard. This matters also. The idea is to get rid of all the bottlenecks that are slowing down your pc. You can have the fastest PC clock speed in the world but if it has 56k or if it has a low end video card then your entire game will slow down to the slowest component. Best to get this ironed out. Most people dont know but buying from some of the leading PC brands actually hurts you. The leading PC makers cheat the public by selling processor speed. What they dont tell you most of the time is that they neglect purposely to tell you that you have only 3 or 4 slots to put cards in. They give small motherboards and have audio and video on the motherboard. The main processor is doing all the work. They do anything to give you less ofr your buck. Best you build one yourself or have a buddy do so. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Keep on Smiling'

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 12:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ParaB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ingsoc41:
Hello....I dont consider the gforce 4 Mx440 a "pansy" card with 126 ram....at one point it was THE card.and it still does WONDERS with most all games.........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The GF4MX series were never good cards for gaming. They are cheap, low-end GFX cards usually found in non-gaming systems and are actually _slower_ then GF3 cards and lack DX 8 effects.

The "GF4"label was used by NVidia to lure in the not-so-knowledgeable people who thought they'd get a real GF4 at a low price...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I disagree..when I installed my geforce mx440 with 128 ram I noticed a REMARKABLE difference in FPS...play rate and overall quality of the graphics......sure was faster and nicer than the earlier gf2 with 64 megs ram

ParaB
06-15-2004, 02:24 AM
Ingsoc, the point isn't whether a GF4MX is faster than a GF2, but the fact that it isn't a real GF4, is even SLOWER than a GF3 and lacks the DirectX8 features of these more modern cards.

The GF4MX is in fact a (slightly) faster GF2 core with better anti-aliasing.

The problem is that many people don't know this, thinking they have a "real" GF4 and wonder why they get bad performance (compared to real GF4s or even GF3s) and no DirectX8 effects.

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 10:01 AM
thanks for your help Para B..I just wish I could use the 8xagp cards....no issue then..but it apears that my motherboard is a 4xagp card..which means...and you would obviously know this better than me..that I would not notice any difference with say a fx5959 256 ram? thanks

C J BEATTIE
06-15-2004, 11:45 AM
THanks for your replys....

My system at the minute is a p4 2.4, 512 ram, and a gf4mmx... I want to run SH3 as good as i can so i guess i take your advice and get a new card... Now money is a issue (as always) so what will give me the biggest punch for pounds so to speak? I havent got a clue when it comes to graphics cards and what to buy...

I was looking at a XFX Geforce Fx5700 Ultra 128MB DDR AGP8x DVI TV-Out Retail Box
to buy perhaps for 100 pounds... is this any good? will it run sh3 great or not? and i just hope this card works on my computer as i dont have a clue what kind of AGP port i have... lolhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C J B

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 12:34 PM
CJ..Im running a P4 1.8 gig with almost i gig of ram..and also gforce 4mx440 with 128 PROBLEM is my agp slot is 4xagp...and most of the newer cars say compatablie with 8xagp..now..questio I need answerred from the more knowledable here is will a 8xagp card WORK in a 4xagp slot...and.if it will work..will it mean better performance even OVERmy 128 card as I would get a 256 ram video card..or does the fact that I have only 4xagp mean even putting a 256 fx5950 that runs on 8xagp mean I get no extra "bang" or possible the card wont work at all..THAT is my conundrum...any help from the more sophisticated amonst us would help..I too am waiting for the game or AT least demo to see if the game runs on my syss.BUT I did read somewhere that the video card MUST be running on the new forceware 56 series drivers instead of the old 45 series detonator drivers.which work GREAT with all my games....will look into new sound card as well..have a 5.1 gamer card.proglem with all the updating hardware is some games just dont run well..or require extensive patching and tweaking to get them right for you games......time marches on..I remember when this system was a screamer.but then I bought it as a gateway 1.3 with 256 ram and a tnt card..and slowly upgraded to 1.8 cpu..gig ram..and the better card..But..my motherboard will NOT accept anything higher than a 1.8 cpu..BUT...bumping up ram really really helps.as well as video ram

C J BEATTIE
06-15-2004, 02:37 PM
Do's anyone know when the demo is due out? i have itchy fingers when to get this card sorted out as i also have to consider a card to play rome total war too.....

delphin-U190
06-15-2004, 03:42 PM
Yes a 8x AGP card can run in a 4x AGP motherboard.

I have a 5900 Ultra, and i test it on one of my computer with 4x AGP motherboard (Abit KT7A), it work fine but the data transfert is slower.

Although it works, so you can buy a video card and later a new motherboard with 8x AGP. Remember the game is announced for fall, if they modify some parts of it, it will probably out for the winter, (may be christmas, it's a good choice for resaler).

Until this, you can wait and see the price of the video card downing, the most you wait, the less you pay.

C J BEATTIE
06-15-2004, 04:06 PM
thanks for the helphttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

christmas is a longgggggggggggggggggg time awayhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif dam

i hope a demo is out before then so i can try it....


i will hang on to see what card i can get cheep...

Cjb

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 05:30 PM
Delphin.I called compter wharehouse and a few others (some of these people I know have no clue) but they told me the fx5950 8apg will physically not fit in the 4agp slot......dont know what to think.....I have a gateway computer.I'll wait TILL the game comes out and see how it runs with mine with the forceware drivers..and then look into new card..as we all know the prices drop like a rock..now that the 6800 is out the 5900 series should be falling and fast as time goes on..my concern still is will the 8 fit in the 4xagp slot? I'll have to compare the two cards.....thanks!

WhiteKnight77
06-15-2004, 09:07 PM
An AGP slot is an AGP slot no matter what. The bus speed and voltage is what matters. An 8X AGP card will work in an AGP slot that is 2X/4X/8X. The thing is with the slower bus speeds you won't reach the cards full potential.

http://whiteknight77.home.mindspring.com/finishedthumb.jpg

I have a GF FX 5950 Ultra in here to replace my GF3 Ti 500.

@C J BEATTIE, your system is similar to mine speed wise. You should have no problems running SHIII with that vid card. Just make sure your PSU is big enough to handle that card. It will need a molex connector to plug into it.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/index.html) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

ingsoc41
06-15-2004, 11:08 PM
whiteknight..thanks awfully much for your replies re the agp slot....I have gotten so much bad advice from places like "computer wharehouse" and such..I dont knwo why I bother asking..so let me ask you..what is PSU..is it Power supply unit? and if so....what is the type? Im running I believe a 250 watt that came with the gatway...if its the actual power supply you are referring to...and what is a molex connector? since I have a P4 1.8 with one gig of ram...and 4 agp.will I still get some nice "bang for my buck" and some nicer graphics going to the 5950 than my current geforce4 mx440 with 128? Thanks.....wish I could go out now and buy a whole new system..but Im buying this and that..and a house so gotta trim for the moment somewhere..anyway..I have a feelign this game wont be out before november and more like christmas (one place did say november) so by the we know with the 6800 the 5900 series will tank price wise..maybe not a lot.but I remember when geforce 4's were going for 3-4 hundred.now they almost give them away.....thanks..Scott

C J BEATTIE
06-16-2004, 02:12 AM
@C J BEATTIE, your system is similar to mine speed wise. You should have no problems running SHIII with that vid card. Just make sure your PSU is big enough to handle that card. It will need a molex connector to plug into it.

Thanks for your infohttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif great..... just one question you said " Just make sure your PSU is big enough to handle that card. It will need a molex connector to plug into it."

What is a PSU? enlighten me please.. im a tech noob and a molex connector? ...

Cjb

delphin-U190
06-16-2004, 02:19 AM
250 Watt seem a litle bit weak today, but if you have not too much devices connected it should work correctly.

I had a 250 W, it died in a big flash after a few year of good duty... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I had connected 3 HDD, 2 CD Drives, 1 5900 Ultra graphic card, and some USB...

A Molex connector is the white four pins connector you use to connect a HDD or CD drive. You need one for most of the new graphic cards. most bundle include a Y connector.

I had bought my 5900 Ultra before changing my motherboard, I used it on a 4x AGP ABIT KT7A 1.3 instead of my GF2 64 Mo... Despite the lower bandwith offered by the 4x, the graphism was amazing...And now with a 8x AGP I have win a lot of FPS in all my games (Call of Duty, IL2...)

I live in France, we can find 5900 XT 128mo for less than 200 euros (240 USD) and 5900 Ultra for less than 360 euros (430 USD) (still expensive but i bought mine last chritmas 410 euros). Remember than in France we pay a lot of taxe and the same product can be found less expensive in other country (Germany or Luxembourg for exemple).

Kapitan_Nereus
06-16-2004, 02:57 AM
PSU = Power Supply Unit
its the box in the top rear of your case http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
and 250 Watt is not good for an FX5700 thats pushing it
could blow it out
Upgrading to a 350 or 400 watt PSU would be all you'd need to up to the FX5950 (you could even go for a 500W if you've got the cash)
most PSU's aren't too expensive

As for the AGP thing, on a 4x board you'll get great quality but lower frame rates
overclocking the bus helps heaps (gave me a +20 FPS boost on my FX5600)
also lowing your monitors refresh rate will help with bottlenecking

as fo GF4 MX series - they are garbage for gaming now-a-days, net surfer cards.
CJ, your machine is being wasted with that MMX a DirectX 9 card and u'd be set for SHIII
If you have extra slots for RAM then more is the order for the year http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

C J BEATTIE
06-16-2004, 07:08 AM
ok....

So i need a new card... so the big question...

WHAT CARD? pounds for power.. is the 5700 anygood?

cjb

Kapitan_Nereus
06-16-2004, 07:37 AM
the 5700 has two main variants
A 128mb version & a 256mb version both on 128-bit bus
the 256 goes for about $150-$170 US
while the 128 goes for $115-$140 US
those are approximations (don't quote me on em http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

These are for the ASUS V9570-TD

Graphics Engine: GeForce FX5700
Video Memory: 256M/128M DDR
Engine Clock: 425MHz
Memory Clock: 500MHz(250MHz DDR)
RAMDAC: 400MHz
Bus Standard: AGP 8x/4X/2X
Memory Interface: 128-bit DDR
Max Resolution: 2048x1536
VGA Output: Standard 15-pin D-sub
TV Output: S-VHS and Composite
DVI Output: DVI-I
2nd VGA Output: Yes
Adaptor/Cable bundled: TV out adaptor & DVI-to-2nd VGA adaptor

Either would run SHIII for sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
but to be safe and make sure you get all the graphical goodies i'd go for the 256mb version

"The Hunt is on..."

[This message was edited by Kapitan_Nereus on Wed June 16 2004 at 06:47 AM.]

ingsoc41
06-16-2004, 09:49 AM
Kaptain...question..you had said earlier:

As for the AGP thing, on a 4x board you'll get great quality but lower frame rates
overclocking the bus helps heaps (gave me a +20 FPS boost on my FX5600)
also lowing your monitors refresh rate will help with bottlenecking

Kaptiain..queston..you say that on a 4x agp board runnning the 8xagp I'll get great video quality but lower frame rates..are you meaning that I'll get LOWER frame rates on the new 256 5950 ultrar than with the geforce mx128 4agp..OR that I'll just getlower frame rates than I would had I been running the card on a true 8apg? I want the good eye candy and graphics quality.but wish to at least keep the frame rates Im getting with my current card...I didnt know geforce mx440 128 were that sucky cards..but live and learn..thanks...Scott
P.s Im only running one hard drive...and video and sound card..so I think I'll be okay with a 250 watt power supply..may bump it up..if my motherboard dosn't have a molex plug ((I think it does) is there a converter between the molex and the plug on the motherboard such as with mouse? thanks for all your time...this is slowly but thankfully getting sorted out right

WhiteKnight77
06-16-2004, 06:36 PM
@ingsoc41, Unfortunately, unless Gateway used an ATX standard size power supply unit (PSU), you will not be able to upgrade. I ran into that very problem myself back when I first wanted to upgrade my very first PC (Gateway).

@ All:

The thing with named brand computers like Dell, Gateway's, Hp's and the like is that they use propriety (their own) wiring schemes and hardware and even OS's. You can't install the OS from a system restoration disk on just any PC. It has to be on the PC it came with. The connector from the PSU to the motherboard may be wired completely different from a standard ATX PSU setup (it most likely is) and plugging a standard ATX into your name brand PC could have terminal consequenses.

Most newer video cards require a power supply with a minimum of 300W. If your PC does not have a large PSU, and you cannot get a larger PSU from the nmanufacturer, you will not be able to upgrade the PSU and hence the video card.

The new GF 6800 Ultra now requires 2 molex (the white 12V 4 wire connectors that plug into CD-ROM's and hard drives) plugged into it and a PSU of 480W. There are 3 versions of the 6800 and only the biggest (lack of a better word) one requires the 2 plugs.

I want to give those who aren't really tech savy, I want to give a word of advise. Learn as much as you can about a PC. If you can add a video card or a sound card, RAM or a HD, you can build a system. I even wrote a newbie friendly how to guide for those who want to try and build their own, but learn to build your own rig. It will be upgradeable when you are ready to upgrade and you will know what exactly is in it.

If you want to save a bit of money building systems, recycle some of the parts that you can like optical drives (CD-ROM's, DVD-ROM's), hard drives, sound cards and vid cards. Getting just a case, CPU, motherboard, RAM and an OEM copy of Windows (you have to buy hardware to get an OEM copy of Windows usually) will save you lots of money if you do not have the cash to spend on all new parts at once.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/index.html) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
06-16-2004, 07:11 PM
Very VERY important about the Gforce cards and similar with small fans attached: After a year or so(and this happens every year I upgrade video) the tiny videocard fan would vibrate from the bushings getting old and dirty and soon it would stop,that would be a bad thing!. Its a good idea to register these so you can always get free fans from the manufacture. Im switiching to water cooled system soon so I need not worry anymore. But its a good Idea to keep that fan free from dirt and in a cool place. I keep my PC up top my bench that way it dont pick up dust from the floor. I just bought a new 200 gig hard drive and dang thats HOT. Its about 180?F when its running hard. Cool that hard drive down too! (this is why also I buy a 6 bay tower as to have room between my harddrives (removeable BT-32 hard drive trays) A 5" fan would do. Then most importantly you need to exhaust all that hot air out of your PC. Hope these ideas help. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Kapitan_Nereus
06-17-2004, 12:43 AM
@ ingsoc41
sorry bout all the techno mumbo jumbo (its a problem, i'm sure they have a 12 step program for it or something http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

The 5950 will give much better frame rates than the GF MX, just because its a faster card http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

but

The Card is AGP 8x, while the board can only handle 4x
as a result the data only transfers at half speed
The quality will be there, but since the data is moving slower you will get reduced frame rates

even with the reduced FPS it will still be above and beyond your GF MX http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
but the boards lack of 8x AGP will clip the cards' wing
you'll still get great performance out of it but it won't be showing off everything it can do

as for the overclocking the bus i only mentioned that since i have an older 4x AGP board too, running a 8x AGP card and it does help, but i wouldn't recommend it unless you really know what your doing, i mean REALLY know what your doing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Like WhiteKnight said: don't screw with your PSU , it can be expensive and dangerous, let a trained professional deal with that stuff (especially if you have a warranty on the PC, don't mess with it)

If you decide to bump up your power supply:
Get in touch with your PC's manufacturer and see if you can get a new PSU through them before you go and get one from your local PC store. If you can then get somebody at your local PC place to install it and connect it all up (its worth the fee)

@ everybody
Building a PC is a great way to get exactly what you want, ordering parts off the net will usually get you a good discount (for ppl in North America www.newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com) is a great place to start)
Take WhiteKnights advice tho, read up before trying anything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW great setup you got there WhiteKnight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

@ingsoc41
hope i cleared that up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

@TASKFORCE1x1
whoa! 180!
is that a new 10,000 RP HDD? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif coz damn! lol
do u have a blow hole in your case?

"The Hunt is on..."

ingsoc41
06-17-2004, 12:07 PM
Hello Kapitan Nereus.....Youve been a GREAT help and I sincererly appreciate the time you have taken to answer my questions.....the people at gateway didnt even have the tech savy you have.and they alway reroute my calls to some damm call center in india...cant understand half of what they say and its a nightmare..and 8 out of ten times they have NO clue....very very frustrating..I now understand all the psu issues and such...I have already gone through THREE gateway 250 psu's as they are JUNK and must have installed
the bargain basement ones......but Im going to calland see if I can get someone on the phone with a 1/4 of a brain to see if they make a larger psu that will accomodate my system.....thanks again...when the dust clears.Im taking your advice and building my own system.....I really want to play silent hunter 3 ..installed 2 last night..and..well.....its lacking...the sound of the deck gun and the small ack ack gun going off is terrible...ubi is also doing another firsst person shooter kind of a band of brothers thing
that looks awesome..and Im sure will need that extra umph that the old (god I rememember getting it 2 1/2 years ago) gateway just wont supply.thanks again..all have been tremendous help and I check the forum before my email! Scott

ingsoc41
06-17-2004, 02:04 PM
Kapitain......are you running a GeForce FX5700 video card? am I mistaken or was there an issue with noise and dust in THIS card or the 5800 series? Also..will a 250 PSU handle the FX5700? I talked to the gateway boys and they said they do not make a larger PSU that my tower will accept..figures.but I would go to the FX5700 256 ram if it will run on my power supply....I also understand I have to see if the 8xagp is backwards compatable with my 4x.agp slot? does that sound correct? thanks of your help..Scott

Kaptain....I read one of your earlier posts where you said the 5700 would probably blow out the 250 watt power supply.....rats...gotta get a new power supply to fit in that damm tower...
BUT&gt;...whats your thought on this...I only have one hard drive running..one cdrom..one cd drive...two usbs..and thats it.....could my 250 watt power supply concievably handle the 5700 given that Im not running lots of things? thanks

ingsoc41
06-17-2004, 02:25 PM
Hello...I cant seem to find any site that has the geforce 5700 ultra in 256 ram? anyone point me in the right direction? also..it says the 5700 is backwards compatable with 4agp slot...but needs a "dongle" connector.what the heck is thaat? is it a DIFFERENT type of connector that my geforceMx440 128 has? and...will I get better play and graphics EVEN on the geforce5700 ultra 128? thanks


Found a Jaton 5700 fx with 256 ram...will accept in 4xagp slot...backwarnds compatable..still dont know about this "dongle" connector.?

Here is what the geforcefx5700 Ultra 256 site spec requirments says:

&gt;&gt; An available hard disk drive power dongle (smaller floppy disk drive connector is not sufficient)

[This message was edited by ingsoc41 on Thu June 17 2004 at 01:40 PM.]

WhiteKnight77
06-17-2004, 06:08 PM
Thanks Kapitan_Nereus, I have built my rig in order to play GR with all the bells and whistles on with both 4xAA/4xAF enabled though I can up it much higher. It just took a few years to get it to what you see now. Ghost Recon just ran my 500mHz Celeron Gateway into the ground. I would get single digit frames on some maps. With AA and AF off, I can get over 400FPS on certain maps, yet enabled, I get up to 150FPS.


@All,

Power dongle=molex connector.

If you fancy building your own PC, as I said before, recycling some parts can save you money. That is how I built my first PC. Once you have a basic rig, you can upgrade to make it better when you have some spare money for parts you would like.

WK's Build a PC Guide (http://whiteknight77.home.mindspring.com/WKSPCGuidepg1.html) will give you guys some help on how to build one and where parts go. This weekend, my guide will be moving so don't bookmark the page yet. Remember that this guide is written with the newbie PC builder in mind.

In a couple of the pics, you will see the white molex connector including installed in the optical drives.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/index.html) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

Kapitan_Nereus
06-18-2004, 12:20 AM
Pleasure to be of some assistance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sorry to hear about your support (of lack there of) from Gateway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
but if the case can't physically take a larger PSU then your stuck with the 250 or you'd have to get a new (and bigger) case.

I wish i was running a FX5700 lol, got a FX5600 256mb
and the "blow it out" part only applies if you had 2 hard disks, a high profile sound card (Audigy 2 for example) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so it should be able to handle it
I ran my FX5600 (the power requirments are virtually identical to a 5700) with a SB Live! sound card, 1 HHD (a 80 gig Seagate 7200 RPM, pretty standard) a CD burner and a DVD rom
all on a 250W PSU and it worked http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i recently put a ATI 9200 in this comp and took the FX5600 for my new "under construction" PC. The 9200 is old but the system as a whole goes faster, doesn't take as long to load stuff etc. simply coz the 5600 was hoggin' all the power and the 9200 hardly uses any http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
so on a 250W PSU having a GFX5200 would be about as high along the graphics card food chain as you could get without some problems...
Sorry to say it but unless you get a bigger PSU it may not be best for the PC as a whole if you install a 5700, let alone an Ultra http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

onto the next part:

The Ultra will run better and smoother than a 256 version, its clock speeds are higher, but it needs more juice and give off more heat (heat's not really a problem since Nvidia cards have good quality heat sinks and fans)

I think the 256 and 128 versions both run on a 128 bit interface, so the only difference is the amount of RAM on the card, this can usually be supplimented with extra system RAM.

As for the noise and dust, yea, they do make a bit of noise http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
and dust is not good! got lazy earlier this year and the crud built up in my FX5600 heats sink and stopped the fan! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif needless to say it cut out, but before it damaged itself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (god bless the dude who put/thought of putting in that temperature monitor http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

WK's filter idea in his PC guide is pretty solid, i'll have to give that a try.


in closing - you could get a FX5700 256 or 128 for your current PC, (the Ultra may be a little bit to intense for the PSU tho) but i personally wouldn't recommend it.
given that your board is old (what brand is it BTW, you can check by fishing up the box that should have come with it or just opening the case and checking for writing, thats usually near the CPU)
does your board use SD or DDR RAM?
given the age of the board i'd guess SD http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

As for the PSU, you should break out a (plastic) tape measure and note down the dimensions of your current PSU, see if a tech at your local comp shop can help you with it

hopefully thats all of it, lol *phew* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

EDIT: WK, your PC builders guide has nothing about grounding yourself out! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
You must always touch a grounded surface to remove your bodies static charge prior to handling ANY component, especially the motherboard!
The simplest grounded surface is the PSU case, just place your hand on it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
you can get grounding belts and other fancy stuff (that costs money) but in my experience the PSU is enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EDIT 2: check this out for an estimate on wattage ingsoc Power Supply Wattage Calculator (http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/)
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

[This message was edited by Kapitan_Nereus on Fri June 18 2004 at 12:13 AM.]

ingsoc41
06-18-2004, 02:25 AM
Hello Kapitain....went out today and sprang for the Gfx5700 256 ram....installed and with new drivers and thing runs like a CHAMP....it was really the only option with my PSU..thanks for all your help as I was able to talk competently to the guys at comp usa who had also excellent advise and pretty much mirrored what I've read here....played Call of Duty with EVERYTHING maxxed out and it plays BEAUTIFULLY and not a glich or lag in the whole thing...my panzer elite will play...but crashes when I try to get out of the map..ohh well....Im really wanting to gear up for the new ubi soft FPS based on band of brothers scenario..and of course SHIII...so I think this should about do it..I will religiously every month take my can of "air spray" and dust off the fans and the bearings...it is amazing what builds up there....so far all is smooth running..thanks so much all for the advice..I love the card and it didn't need a molex plug

Kapitan_Nereus
06-18-2004, 02:50 AM
Glad to here it works without issue http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
it should be right then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

When you change your video hardware some programs screw up and sometimes they work just fine
for panzer elite, try a reinstall and see how ya go http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Enjoy your new card http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

WhiteKnight77
06-18-2004, 07:32 PM
Now that you mention it, I do need to put something about being grounded in my guide, thanks Kapitan.

I am not sure where the foam I use for my filter can be found. It is thicker than what most computer places (not places like BestBuy, CompUSA and the like) have. I get mine from a division of Snap-On Tools (I am an auto mechanic) called EquiServ. I can get it no problem. Maybe we could set something up to get some if you want to get a square of it.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/index.html) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

WhiteKnight77
06-21-2004, 06:46 PM
If you are interested in bookmarking my PC guide, you can now find it here (http://www.whiteknight77.net/wkspcguidepg1.html).

I even updated it with a caution about static electricity. Thanks again Kapitan for pointing that ommision out.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://www.whiteknight77.net) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
06-24-2004, 11:13 AM
Hi,

So, can you tell me whether this rig will run SH3 OK?

AMD 2400+
512MB RAM
GF4 Ti4200 64MB (4x)
Win XP Pro

?

Also, GF4Ti is better than GF3 Ti?

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

WhiteKnight77
06-24-2004, 06:52 PM
I don't see why not. I have that same chip and amount of RAM and can run pretty much any game though the one thing I do have is a newer video card. I don't see why you couldn't run it.

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://www.whiteknight77.net) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif

Kapitan_Nereus
06-24-2004, 11:16 PM
@ WK
you're welcome http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@ NorrisMcWhirter

Yup, it should run.
thats a 64mb Ti4200 i think...
if so, its memory is clocked at 500Mhz(on DDR so thats good), core speed is 250Mhz (bit slow http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif)
i'm not sure about its memory bandwidth

so running SHIII with all the graphical goodies on probably ain't gonna happen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

oh,
and the GF3Ti 500 has 64mb of DDR and runs at memory speed of 500Mhz and a core speed of 240Mhz
once again i'm uncertain of the memory bandwidth on the card but from the clock speeds the GF4Ti is just a tiny bit faster than the GF3Ti.

hope this helps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

ingsoc41
06-27-2004, 03:55 PM
Hello..for all those with the knowledge; ) As I said..Im running the fx5700 256 with latest 56 series drivers....my question is:..can I run THIS card with the older 45.23 detonater (not forceware) drivers? It may sound silly..but will the OLD drivers coupled with this NEW card somehow make the card run too hot..or not run correctly? I was able to run the 56 series with my old geforce4 Mx440 with no problem..so Im just wondering if using the new card wit OLDER nvidia drivers causes or may present any problems..thanks in advance for any assistance! God cant wait for this game..its gonna blow SH2 right out of the water..I dont like seeing "just screens" as in SH2 ..and with all the new FPshooters...it only makes sense to see a real crew interacting with the boot

ingsoc41
06-27-2004, 11:32 PM
Help! Please anyone with anwer to this question....all have been of GREAT helpful so far.........thanks!

Kapitan_Nereus
06-28-2004, 12:57 AM
hold yer horses there :P http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

No, the card will run fine with the older drivers (the ones on the install disc are always meant for the card http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)
but the latest drivers support newer versions of OpenGL, Pixel Shader etc.
all that software stuff that puts our expensive hardware to good use http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

but why would you want to run it on old drivers anyway? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

ingsoc41
06-28-2004, 01:39 AM
Kapitan..thanks SO much for the help..I only want to run the old drivers ocassionally when I play my sim "panzer elite"..which absolutely will not work with the new drivers...it crashes in map menu..common known crash among this gaming cult...when silent hunter arrives...and others..I'll just add the new drivers..its only for the ocassional week or two that I feel like a long Panzer campaign in mother russia..I just wanted to know if it would have any adverse effect on the card itself..thanks for you help...youve been of great help in educating myself and others on this forum! Scott

Kapitan_Nereus
06-28-2004, 06:50 AM
Once again, you're quite welcome ingsoc http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Todays Hardware tip: Only way you can cook a card with software is overclocking program not used/configured correctly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
(WARNING: overclocking and making changes in BIOS by uncertified personel can void warranties and cause serious damage to your system and should not be done unless you really know what you are doing or it should not at all.) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

as for educating ppl, remember knowledge is power http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

BONFLECK
06-29-2004, 12:01 AM
I want to upgrade from my ge-force 2 mx400, byt my mother board (ecs,k7s5a) only supports 4x agp. It could be a while before I finance a newer pc with different mother board & 8x slot. What card should I buy? I don't want to pay for more than I can use. Thanks, B

ingsoc41
06-29-2004, 12:26 AM
Hello Bonfleck..my P4 1.8 also only has 4xagp slot.but I got a fx5700 with 256 ram..made by BFG..I think PNY also makes one..it works fine with my 4agp...not as well as it would work with a full on 8xagp...but still..the difference is OUTSTANDING and dramatic compared to the geforce4mx440 I was running.....hope that helps a little

Kapitan_Nereus
06-29-2004, 01:35 AM
BONFLECK:

You have a pretty good quality board there, the K7S5A series are great full size boards there only draw back is the 4x AGP slot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Whats your budget exactly? i don't know how often or what games you play/wanna play.

You should take a look around Newegg.com's graphics card section (http://www.newegg.com/app/manufact.asp?catalog=48&DEPA=1)
busting out for a mid range card (an Nvidia 5700 or an ATI 9600) will give you a good equilibrium between performance and cost.

check back if this was no help or you have more questions http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

WhiteKnight77
07-03-2004, 08:19 PM
bump

Staff GhostRecon.net (http://www.ghostrecon.net) | Aggression (http://www.agr-s.com)
WhiteKnight77 (http://www.whiteknight77.net) | My Rig (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=23064)
http://whiteknight77.homestead.com/files/wksig01.gif