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View Full Version : TB-3 Crews Are Nuts!



Breeze147
07-19-2004, 12:37 PM
After starting some training on the nuances of the TB-3, I have already come to this conclusion: Anybody whoever actually crewed on one of these had to be out of their minds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

Breeze147
07-19-2004, 12:37 PM
After starting some training on the nuances of the TB-3, I have already come to this conclusion: Anybody whoever actually crewed on one of these had to be out of their minds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
07-19-2004, 01:13 PM
WHAT! They probably had the time of their lives! Wind in their hair, I-16 buddies down below, AND one of the most sturdy metal designs in the world for its time!

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

p1ngu666
07-19-2004, 01:31 PM
boosher, u is wrong, be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=742105155 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

also, wanna send me that swordfish model? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

Hawgdog
07-19-2004, 01:32 PM
Nah, they were the boys who couldnt handle JUMPING out of a good one!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Gio_tesBCfEJ:www.skalman.nu/worldwar2/bilder

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/sharkdog.gif
When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

Waldo.Pepper
07-19-2004, 02:03 PM
They were ruled by a dictator who killed millions of his own. (Remember?)

They had orders.

jensenpark
07-19-2004, 02:12 PM
There is a very thin line between out of their mind and brave.

For TB3 drivers, your guess is as good as mine.

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart

Mitlov47
07-19-2004, 02:15 PM
Remember: the TB-3 model we have is from the mid-30s (1933 or 35, I can't remember off the top of my head). It's just fine against fighters from the same era. A lot had changed by 40-41, and I was under the impression that the TB-3s of 40-41 were faster and otherwise more advanced than the ones we have in-game.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1090057401_zero2.jpg

x6BL_Brando
07-19-2004, 02:27 PM
Mitlov has it......the TB3 would have been an excellent fighting-machine in its era but didn't cut it when it encountered a newer generation of interceptors with improved speed, ordnance and so on. Countries re-arm at different times, and sometimes miss the boat.....and sometimes the General Staff and planners in the country's War Office get it wrong too.

I still don't think I'd have climbed into a TB3 willingly after the first few months of the war!

FI-Aflak
07-19-2004, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Mitlov has it......the TB3 would have been an excellent fighting-machine in its era but didn't cut it when it encountered a newer generation of interceptors with improved speed, ordnance and so on. Countries re-arm at different times, and sometimes miss the boat.....and sometimes the General Staff and planners in the country's War Office get it wrong too.

I still don't think I'd have climbed into a TB3 willingly after the first few months of the war!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The TB-3 is perfect against the little biplanes and the P.11c.

They have little peashooters that pass right through the cloth, and can hardly hurt the motors. In the event of a fire, well, thats what the extinguishers are for.

But against 40's german aircraft it was in bad shape, its the ordinance that killed it. When cannons became mainstream on fights, the whole cloth design thing went out of style.

PBNA-Boosher
07-19-2004, 03:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
AND one of the most sturdy metal designs in the world for its time!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I was saying...

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Timex62
07-19-2004, 04:13 PM
Cloth? I thought those puppies were of all metal design.

Close to the Edge

p1ngu666
07-19-2004, 05:21 PM
there all metal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
cloth is actully better against cannons, u dont set hte round off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

hmm, can anyone also imagine mk108 rounds bouncing back to the german behind? in a true cartoon stylee http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

anyone got any info/websites for tb3? the later ones that is, be cool too add them to game if possible

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

M.R.Maiornikov
07-19-2004, 07:31 PM
Man how can you even say something about those brave souls. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Agamemnon22
07-19-2004, 09:51 PM
Flying it in general is one thing. Flying it in the middle of the night from near St. Petersburg to Berlin shortly after Nazi invasion sounds just plain suicidal. But they did it. IIRC 2 of the 8 TB-3's sent made it home, and one just made it to the Russian side of the front.

Vladimir_No2
07-19-2004, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI-Aflak:
The TB-3 is perfect against the little biplanes and the P.11c.

They have little peashooters that pass right through the cloth, and can hardly hurt the motors. In the event of a fire, well, thats what the extinguishers are for.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I respectfully disagree. Those "peashooters" murder the exposed crew, and an airplane isn't very good without a pilot. In my experience[in the p.11c] I find that the TB-3 is so slow that I can easily attack it from a wide variety of angles and make quick strafing passes against it, with little risk of being hit be return fire. Even to the .30 cals, its engines die easily and its gunners/pilot are easy to kill.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v255/vladimir_no2/polishsig.jpg
Der Spaziergang uber Warshau

Mitlov47
07-19-2004, 11:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
Flying it in general is one thing. Flying it in the middle of the night from near St. Petersburg to Berlin shortly after Nazi invasion sounds just plain suicidal. But they did it. IIRC 2 of the 8 TB-3's sent made it home, and one just made it to the Russian side of the front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what happens when a brutal dictator sends all capable leaders in the military to the Gulag because they're a threat to him, replacing them with loyal novices. This is why the Red Army got massacred so badly in the first year. The leadership was green as green can be, and didn't think about things like "this bomber isn't an appropriate match for those fighters" or "we really need more fighter support than we're currently sending out."

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1090057401_zero2.jpg

M.R.Maiornikov
07-19-2004, 11:45 PM
LOL mitlov 47...my god official propaganda again.Please read a collection of books by victor suvorov(a formal GRU agent who escaped to britain and was condamned to death in USSR)

I really really recommend to you those books.(he uses open source proofs to show the real plans of soviet union)BTW those books are pulbished in almost every language.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Zayets
07-20-2004, 12:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M.R.Maiornikov:
LOL mitlov 47...my god official propaganda again.Please read a collection of books by victor suvorov(a formal GRU agent who escaped to britain and was condamned to death in USSR)

I really really recommend to you those books.(he uses open source proofs to show the real plans of soviet union)BTW those books are pulbished in almost every language.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's the name of the book? You really made me curious now. I know about soviet troopers from my grandpa.I don't wanna post here what he said about '44/'45 soviet soldiers/officers since I don't wanna start a flame war here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

M.R.Maiornikov
07-20-2004, 01:55 AM
Well suvorov have a collection of books:Icebreaker,Day M,Cleaning (about the real cleaning of 1937),Last republic(about so called dumb soviet officers),Aquarium(about GRU secret service and his envolvment),Freadom bringer ( don't know the word in english:in russian Osvoboditel(about the invasion of tcheck republick and his life as an tank officer)),Verification(about the secret service of stalin(in a form of a novel)),Suicide(don't have it yet),Control(also in a form of an novel).

here's a small description about the author: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Victor%20Rezun

here's one of his book: http://stickymedia.com/Scripts/Aquarium.htm

Had a link to all his book but forgot the adress.sorry

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Zayets
07-20-2004, 02:02 AM
Thanks alot! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

M.R.Maiornikov
07-20-2004, 02:07 AM
Here's a link to "icebreaker" book: http://lib.ru/WSUWOROW/icebreak.txt

(sorry it's in russian and you probably can find other books of him there)



Here you go,all his books(but on internet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif :http://lib.ru/WSUWOROW/
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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Lazy312
07-20-2004, 02:34 AM
IMHO Suvorov's credibility is close to that of Erich von Daniken. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wooden planes, iron men

Mitlov47
07-20-2004, 02:55 AM
It's not "official propaganda" that huge numbers of the Soviet military brass were victims of the Purges of the late 1930s. That's just a fact. Interpret it as you will.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1090057401_zero2.jpg

AdmiralWarlord
07-20-2004, 08:10 AM
They may be nuts but I heard that not one TB-3 was lost in the war.

Breeze147
07-20-2004, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdmiralWarlord:
They may be nuts but I heard that not one TB-3 was lost in the war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I must say, that is a truly amazing statistic.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

joeap
07-20-2004, 10:09 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by M.R.Maiornikov:
Here's a link to "icebreaker" book: http://lib.ru/WSUWOROW/icebreak.txt

(sorry it's in russian and you probably can find other books of him there)



Here you go,all his books(but on internet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif :http://lib.ru/WSUWOROW/
You want a serious historian on the Eastern Front go here: (David Glantz)
http://www.battlefield.ru/shop/glantz1.html

M.R.Maiornikov
07-20-2004, 12:13 PM
hehe lol there is no serious russian historians.All of them are influenced by the Kremlin.As for international historians,they can't say anyting else other than the russian propaganda cause it can start an international scandal.I won't start a debate here about who is real and who is not,but i'm already past that propaganda : evryone in soviet union was dumb,soldier was lazy,officer was coward.Remember this:those lazy soldiers and coward officers accomplished amazing things that no other country could ever do.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Mitlov47
07-20-2004, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M.R.Maiornikov:
hehe lol there is no serious russian historians.All of them are influenced by the Kremlin.As for international historians,they can't say anyting else other than the russian propaganda cause it can start an international scandal.I won't start a debate here about who is real and who is not,but i'm already past that propaganda : evryone in soviet union was dumb,soldier was lazy,officer was coward.Remember this:those lazy soldiers and coward officers accomplished amazing things that no other country could ever do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's NOT what I said, and that's not what schools over here teach.

I said inexperienced officers made mistakes because they were inexperienced. I never said that they were cowardly, lazy, or stupid[/i]. Just inexperienced.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1090057401_zero2.jpg

M.R.Maiornikov
07-20-2004, 12:39 PM
Mitlov please read suvorov's book called Last republic or Day M.Then talk to me about unexpirienced soldiers.Don't look at only one (communist)side of the history.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Vladimir_No2
07-21-2004, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdmiralWarlord:
They may be nuts but I heard that not one TB-3 was lost in the war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can't be true, I know one was downed by a J8A of F19!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v255/vladimir_no2/polishsig.jpg
Der Spaziergang uber Warshau

Whatsmypassword
07-22-2004, 12:52 AM
Mr Majornikov, you amazed me with your recommendation to read Suvorov's book which is pretty much like a reading for The Sun fanats. Quite hard accounts of a ground observer about the tragic fates of TB-3s crews you may find in the trilogy "Live and Dead" written by Konstantin Simonov.

It was suicidal to send TB-3 and other outdated bombers without fighter escorts at early stages of the war. It is assessed that the VVS lost up to 1000 bombers in 1941. The burden of Berlin bombardment was carried out mainly by Il-4 bombers. But apparently the Soviet command did not have much choice as the Werkmacht made 50 kilometers every day. But there were also organisational mistakes as well. The heavy losses prompted the reform of the VVS and the Long Range Bombing Aviation force (DBA) directly subordinated to the High Command only was formed in 1942. But it does not diminish the heroism of TB-3 crews.
---------------------
WAIT FOR ME
Konstantin Simonov

Wait for me, and I'll return
Only wait very hard
Wait when you are filled with sorrow...
Wait in the sweltering heat
Wait when the others have stopped waiting,
Forgetting their yesterdays.

Wait even when from afar no letters come to you
Wait even when others are tired of waiting...
And when friends sit around the fire,
Drinking to my memory,
Wait, and do not hurry to drink to my memory too.

Wait. For I'll return,defying every death.
And let those who do not wait say that I was lucky.
They will never understand that in the midst of death,
You with you waiting saved me.
Only you and I know how I survived.
It's because you waited, as no one else did.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M.R.Maiornikov:
hehe lol there is no serious russian historians.All of them are influenced by the Kremlin.As for international historians,they can't say anyting else other than the russian propaganda cause it can start an international scandal.I won't start a debate here about who is real and who is not,but i'm already past that propaganda : evryone in soviet union was dumb,soldier was lazy,officer was coward.Remember this:those lazy soldiers and coward officers accomplished amazing things that no other country could ever do.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

M.R.Maiornikov
07-22-2004, 02:21 AM
I don't understand are you calling me a fanat or something? The only reason i post victor suvorov's books is because if you read them you will fild alot of interesting arguments and proofs about the great patriotic war and stalin's regime.Second,i'm really tired people speak about russian stupidity and weakness,that's why i post those books here,so if you wiling to believe the official propaganda (which communist gave to the world(doesn't it seems strange-communist call them selves stupid in the eyes of whole world)) then be my quest.

No more debates(i don't want to get banned)

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

joeap
07-22-2004, 06:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M.R.Maiornikov:
hehe lol there is no serious russian historians.All of them are influenced by the Kremlin.As for international historians,they can't say anyting else other than the russian propaganda cause it can start an international scandal.I won't start a debate here about who is real and who is not,but i'm already past that propaganda : evryone in soviet union was dumb,soldier was lazy,officer was coward.Remember this:those lazy soldiers and coward officers accomplished amazing things that no other country could ever do.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maiornikov, I don't know who you are talking too, but I never said that. there are good Russian historians , but Suvarov is not one of them IMO. The Russians themselves appreciate Glantz because he portrays a positive picture of Soviet excellence in Operational level warfare, based on archival sources which are named. I for one admire the achievments of Soviet forces in WWII (with some criticism as is normal).

M.R.Maiornikov
07-22-2004, 02:27 PM
Official russian historians are under influence of the Kremlin.As for suvorov he is now a professor is some of the university in Great Britain and United States.Is that answer your question?

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Whatsmypassword
07-22-2004, 09:42 PM
MR Majornikov, now Russsian historians are now under no official pressure if the word is not about textbooks of course. As regards Suvorov & Co it is ridicolous to claim yourself a historian if you sit thousands miles away from Russian archives and write about Russian history. Besides do not forget that Suvorov seemingly still gets his salary from some fancy Bristish government agency which also undermines his credibility.

M.R.Maiornikov
07-22-2004, 10:21 PM
Actually suvorov used more fonded arguments than any official big russian historian.As for you part about british salary i don't quite understand what you mean...Enough said if you like to believe that russians were so dumb to put all the airforce near the german border be my quest,i wont argue with you.And as for the part about the russian pressure you obviously didn't visit Russia lately.

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

AdmiralWarlord
07-22-2004, 10:26 PM
Topic is TB-3 crews not about a Russian historian. You guys mind making your own topic instead of hijacking this one ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks.

Apparently a TB-3 can have up to 5 planes! An Aircraft Carrier in the sky http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://aerostories.free.fr/appareils/compopara/aviamatkaPVO.JPG
Also - something I did not know - TB-3 are a Tupolev design aircraft.

M.R.Maiornikov
07-22-2004, 10:29 PM
Sorry i believe you are right my mistake i just got mad hearing again about russian stupidity.No more historians http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov