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mike_espo
04-16-2004, 04:07 PM
I was in virtual pilots 2 yesterday and while flying my g.50, I saw a 1-153 about 1500m below me. I dove on him, setting pitch to 0 so to increase speed, as I was approaching, he saw me and evaded. I just pulled back on the stick slightly and immediately blacked out! by the time I recovered, he was on my six and I was history.

Question is: Is the blackout effect too pronounced? Any advice on how to lessen the blackout effect while trying to bounce?

thanks

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

mike_espo
04-16-2004, 04:07 PM
I was in virtual pilots 2 yesterday and while flying my g.50, I saw a 1-153 about 1500m below me. I dove on him, setting pitch to 0 so to increase speed, as I was approaching, he saw me and evaded. I just pulled back on the stick slightly and immediately blacked out! by the time I recovered, he was on my six and I was history.

Question is: Is the blackout effect too pronounced? Any advice on how to lessen the blackout effect while trying to bounce?

thanks

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

XyZspineZyX
04-16-2004, 04:29 PM
I'm not familiar enough with the new Fiat to say why it happens with that particular plane, but in the case of the 109s, the inability to pull the stick back over about 300kph has been installed as a "featurette"; and, many other planes which also had a tendency to have a hard stick to haul at high speeds (and it's nearly ALL WWII planes), get a total pass on that particular phenomenon...especially the Yaks.

Much has been done to rob the Bf109 of its chief strength, the ability to exploit an altitude advantage. If you are high up on a perch, unless you have icons to aid you, you can't see enemy below you half the time, especialy on the Normandy and Finland maps;

If you do make a B&Z diving pass, you simply cannot recover if your victim sees you and maneuvering begins; by the time you manage a pullup (blackout or not), the enemy has easily looped back onto your six. For this same reason, he can often dive away for a km or so, and pull up to escape you; a 109 simply cannot maneuver in the vertical plane unless it is at LOW speeds.

If you simply dive, again, you can't pull out in a tactically expedient way. You'll lawndart or end up *right* on the deck, giving up much of your tactical flexibility.

mike_espo
04-16-2004, 04:36 PM
I hear ya. The g.50 bleeds energy like a cut artery. Thats why I set the pitch to 0 to hopefully gain enough energy to climb up again. Never got to test it though. As I blacked out...

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

VW-IceFire
04-16-2004, 07:56 PM
How hard did you pull back...you can do this easily in P-51 and Ki-84 as well. The key I find is to properly extend away from your dive...so that you flatten out on the level and then gently pull out.

Remember in physics: things like to keep doing what they are doing. In terms of your plane its probably much happie if you pull out, establish a flat altitude (no drop or gain) and then pull back and regain altitude. You shouldn't loose much energy because this can be done fairly quickly...the benefit is that your pilot isn't subjected to all of the G's at once.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Dnmy
04-16-2004, 08:49 PM
Instead of a high G pullout, make it a gentle, low G pullout up and away from the target, out of gunsrange. You'll keep your speed that way and won't black out. So you can repeat the same thing again, again and again.

If you wanna park yourself on his six and stay there without blacking out, you gotta come in at much lower closure rate.

--------------------------------

"killstealing only exists in the minds of score*****s"

XyZspineZyX
04-16-2004, 11:33 PM
That's the problem, Dnmy. You can't make a gentle controlled pullout anymore with any 109, now that Oleg has installed the "concrete elevator".

You get almost NO response, meanwhile the Yaks, Spits, P-whatevers you're facing are merrily going nose high with no effort at all.

The way it's 'modelled' in this game, you'd think only the Bf109 had any kind of compressibility issues.

Lunix
04-16-2004, 11:51 PM
Agreed you want to extend a good amount unless your in a rocket *ahem* K4. Pulling back hard enough to blackout means your pulling way to hard and bleeding precious E. Take your time and relax, you have the advantage.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-17-2004, 12:13 AM
dunno mike, testing a new skin I just flew G.50 and dived real fast and pulled out just fine.

*NEW* ntinos G.50 skin.....high speed skin perhaps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=10893&ts=1082182180&camefrom=intro


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Xnomad
04-17-2004, 04:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
I'm not familiar enough with the new Fiat to say why it happens with that particular plane, but in the case of the 109s, the inability to pull the stick back over about 300kph has been installed as a "featurette"; and, many other planes which also had a tendency to have a hard stick to haul at high speeds (and it's nearly ALL WWII planes), get a total pass on that particular phenomenon...especially the Yaks.

Much has been done to rob the Bf109 of its chief strength, the ability to exploit an altitude advantage. If you are high up on a perch, unless you have icons to aid you, you can't see enemy below you half the time, especialy on the Normandy and Finland maps;

If you do make a B&Z diving pass, you simply cannot recover if your victim sees you and maneuvering begins; by the time you manage a pullup (blackout or not), the enemy has easily looped back onto your six. For this same reason, he can often dive away for a km or so, and pull up to escape you; a 109 simply cannot maneuver in the vertical plane unless it is at LOW speeds.

If you simply dive, again, you can't pull out in a tactically expedient way. You'll lawndart or end up *right* on the deck, giving up much of your tactical flexibility.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is why I hate the Spitfire online when flying a late war Bf 109. The Spitfire drivers always look in their mirrors and above waiting for you. I have yet to 'bounce' a Spitfire even when approaching fast from below in his blindspot they seem to notice you. You think he hasn't spotted you and you make your attack. Then just when you are about to shoot he makes a fast defensive manouver and you can't keep up. Even if you slow down a Spitfire is very hard to hit with a MK 108 as he'll be turning so hard making the deflection angle too large to aim easily. So basically unless he falls asleep or a group of you gang up on him he will most likely have you for breakfast if you don't zoom climb and extend away from him after the first pass. When the late war Spits come into play then online will be even harder place for 109 drivers.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

Cajun76
04-17-2004, 04:34 AM
Stiglr, when was the last time you dived a Yak? I take one up every once in a while, and while its (Yak 3) high speed responce is a bit better than the K4 I just tested, it response sucks compared to the P-47 I usually take up. The Bf-109 did have a heavier elevator than some other a/c out there. But maybe this whole "history" thing is a conspiracy, like you say..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

CaptainGelo
04-17-2004, 06:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
That's the problem, Dnmy. You can't make a gentle controlled pullout anymore with any 109, now that Oleg has installed the "concrete elevator".

You get almost NO response, meanwhile the Yaks, Spits, P-whatevers you're facing are merrily going nose high with no effort at all.

The way it's 'modelled' in this game, you'd think only the Bf109 had any kind of compressibility issues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"cry me a river" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BBB_Hyperion
04-17-2004, 07:09 AM
Agree http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"The way it's 'modelled' in this game, you'd think only the Bf109 had any kind of compressibility issues."

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/109myths/

Regards,
Hyperion

Dnmy
04-17-2004, 09:39 AM
Depends on what speeds you're travelling at.
I wouldn't expect to have great elevator authority at 600+ kph. in the 109. At those speeds and higher, i'd expect the elevator to be set like in molasses, progressing towards concrete.

In any case, there's still a fantastic workaround to the bad elevator authority (Unfortunately i would say). In FB it's called trim.

--------------------------------

"killstealing only exists in the minds of score*****s"

mike_espo
04-17-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
dunno mike, testing a new skin I just flew G.50 and dived real fast and pulled out just fine.

*NEW* ntinos G.50 skin.....high speed skin perhaps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=10893&ts=1082182180&camefrom=intro


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish _"Gladiator"_ listed as _J8A_ _...in Aces Expansion Pack_


_"You will still have FB , you will lose _nothing"__ ~WUAF_Badsight
_"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..."_ ~Bearcat99
_"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age"_ ~ElAurens
:
_"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore_!_"_ ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Lexx. I was flying my 21a gruppo Napoli Capodichino skin. real cool.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg