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View Full Version : MAJOR BUG FW's get a few minor hits they fly like its half blown up



XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 07:37 AM
speed is way less... the plane buffets and acts wierd.. stall goes off the hook.. its acting like its blown all to thell with just a few minor hits other planes dont do this.. fix one or the other

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 07:37 AM
speed is way less... the plane buffets and acts wierd.. stall goes off the hook.. its acting like its blown all to thell with just a few minor hits other planes dont do this.. fix one or the other

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 07:44 AM
"please" would be good but otherwise true

BOUNCE

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 03:31 PM
1. All planes do that to an extent
2. The difference between 'minor' and 'major' cannot be dealt upon visual indications
3. You might be underestimating the depth of your damage



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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 03:44 PM
kweassa wrote:
- 3. You might be underestimating the depth of your
- damage

Or he might not.

Nic



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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:32 PM
True.

That's why it's up to him to prove it.



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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:16 AM
I did some tests of the 190's and found LMG didn't even scratch them. I tried both as the LMG armed attacker and as the 190 pilot. After allowing a Hurri IIb to empty all his ammo into me I turned on him and killed him with no noticeable change to my plane's performance and no indication of any damage despite bein an arrow pin cushion. I could take out a 190 with a few 20 mm hits though. So put me in the skeptical category on this issue... A single 20 mm round in the wing could slow you down noticeably.

Still trying to figure out the LMG issue...many planes are nearly invulnerable to it, while some like the 109 are easily dispatched by it. I can see where certain structural members and armour might not be effected by LMG, but I would expect other things to take damage--like control surfaces, and stabilizers.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:50 AM
Salute

The 190 is so overmodelled as it stands, that this relative minor disadvantage is hugely offset by the ridiculously effective elevators at any speed, the vastly overmodelled high speed rollrate, and the fact this plane will take more damage than any other fighter in the game. It is invulnerable to LMG fire, and hardly bothered by .50 calibre hits. It takes LOTS of cannon up close to have a chance to down the 190's, and whether or not the Luftwaffers want to admit it or not, that is nonsense. This plane was constructed of aluminum just like any other WWII fighter, and EVEN light machine gun fire will have an effect on the relatively light structure of a fighter when the range is short. .50 calibre rounds would tear through all the aircraft spars with no trouble at all.

Yes, the 190 should be a good fighter, but the FB model has many attributes which are WAY beyond what it historically had.


RAF74 Buzzsaw



Message Edited on 09/15/0307:55AM by RAF74BuzzsawXO

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:35 PM
RAF74BuzzsawXO wrote:
- and hardly bothered by .50 calibre hits.

Are you kidding? A P47 has abo****ely no problem shooting down a Fw190, at least a Dora. I did many tries myself to check out for people complaining about the 190 toughness. .50 works very fine. I'd say you need less firing time to shoot down a Dora in a P47 than to shoot down a P47 from a Dora.

Nic

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:46 PM
Perhaps if the damage when it happens is to the control surfaces themselves or the linkages? If the aileron on one side gets mauled then the other side is still there, how about if the link to one side is jammed or cut?

I do agree that damage graphics can't be used to judge the state of the damage. That's asking for way too much.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:25 PM
"few minor hits".. problem is the external damage view.. even if you hit 190 with for exampke Yak3 with Shvak, there appears to be small bullet holes, when indeed these are 20cm holes.. that is why it seems not be any damage, when indeed who knows how many Shvak hits your 190 may have sustained..
Though I do agree, I did the same test one Yak UBS hit to wings, and I considerably lost perfomance. And heavy drag to other wing. 190 seems to be only bird suffering from this.. fortunalety it is only a minor issues and unlikely to ever get fixxed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:47 PM
RAF74BuzzsawXO wrote:
- Salute
-
- The 190 is so overmodelled as it stands, that this
- relative minor disadvantage is hugely offset by the
- ridiculously effective elevators at any speed, the
- vastly overmodelled high speed rollrate, and the
- fact this plane will take more damage than any other
- fighter in the game. It is invulnerable to LMG
- fire, and hardly bothered by .50 calibre hits. It
- takes LOTS of cannon up close to have a chance to
- down the 190's, and whether or not the Luftwaffers
- want to admit it or not, that is nonsense. This
- plane was constructed of aluminum just like any
- other WWII fighter, and EVEN light machine gun fire
- will have an effect on the relatively light
- structure of a fighter when the range is short. .50
- calibre rounds would tear through all the aircraft
- spars with no trouble at all.
-
- Yes, the 190 should be a good fighter, but the FB
- model has many attributes which are WAY beyond what
- it historically had.


Have you ever tried downing a LaGG-3? They take 4x as many hits to down /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . The little guns in FB are bugged in general, it isn't a problem with just 1 or 2 planes damage models. Roll rate is a little overmodeled (not by much though) and the turn rate is fine. Tbe Fw 190's finally fly like they should. High instant turn rate, pathetic sutained turn rate.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:49 PM
i down FW190 As with my mig am-38´s 2 small mgs and one heavy mg all the time - takes some time but still works. If i fly the 2xShvak version they lose wings and catch fire easily.

cant figure out what is the problem downing these FW with bloody EIGHT .50 cal !!!!!????? - work on your gunnery skills http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:43 AM
Vipez- wrote:

- Though I do agree, I did the same test one Yak UBS
- hit to wings, and I considerably lost perfomance.
- And heavy drag to other wing. 190 seems to be only
- bird suffering from this.. fortunalety it is only a
- minor issues and unlikely to ever get fixxed

If that is true then it's not a minor problem at all.
Not like only one plane is affected and yes like if the view isn't crippling enough then what's a little allergy to bee stings?

Can anyone make a track showing this with the damage arrows and all? Holy Golden BB's, Batman! Is this true or not?


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:51 AM
Maxgunz, it happens in most all planes. A hit to wings sometimes show rarely any damage, and yet it clearly droops down, indicating a loss of lift - damage equivalent of small holes made in the wing. As many have said and I agree, the visual damage is not to be trusted 100%.

I'm a luftwhiner and I fly all planes, and I've felt those things happening in all planes I fly - 190s, 109s, P-39s, P-47s, LaGGs, Yaks, you name it. The only difference is how the varying degree of the 'wing droop' effects flight, and how much it is portrayed visually.

In the case of 109s, hits to the wing show very clear damage of gaping holes, while in the 190 - and I've actually seen this happen - multiple rounds hit the wing, and the damage texture is replaced to a really flimsy looking one which looks like the paint has been scratched off.

Does that mean my 190 is invincible and doesn't feel a thing? No. Like someone said, it's combat effectiveness is near zero, and the safest approach would be to run straight home, hoping the 190 I am flying is faster than the other plane.

As I said the 'droop' varies - sometimes, it droops only a little, feeling like it can be easily adjusted with aileron trimming.. other times it's really serious.

...

The more a DM is complex, the more there are bound to be inconsistencies. .50s useless against the 190s? That ain't how I feel, on the receiving end.






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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 03:07 AM
I've done some more testing and the full ammo load from a P-47 has trouble bringing down the A-series planes I tested, didn't try the Dora, but the A's are a bit tougher than they should be. Don't have any trouble with cannon doing the job though...

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:54 AM
I don't doubt what you say is true, Red.

But I also have me a track of snapping the wing off a Fw190 with a P-47, with just three timed bursts, each less than 1 second long.

Inconsistencies happen.

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:35 AM
I've never been really sure but when you make the arcade mode to show the arrows, does it change the DM itself? Can you set up a track not made with the arrows to show the arrows? I don't know of any other way to determine actual hits.

There's a thing about RL ballistics and hits that if a bullet stops inside a target then the full impact has gone into the target as opposed to when a bullet passes through. From what I've gathered about the complex DM, a shot can do do the same thing in FB of not having its power absorbed by the first, second or so on thing it hits and continue on until it is absorbed or exits the plane. I've seen tracers exit the fronts of planes on tracks and the PK or control loss happened.

If it's all the planes then it's fair enough for me! I have read of more than a few planes suffering one hit loss of controls with a high frequency but I have no real basis to say it's right or wrong. We often notice the really irritating things more, it explains spoiled brats screaming for attention and not just here. The trouble is to seperate the brats from those with real problems.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:05 PM
Seen it, felt it, thought about it.

Don't forget one thing: Fw had a high load wing, so smaller holes may reduce lift like bigger ones on some birds that had low load wing.

On the other hand, maybe DM textures are troublesome. It is well known that we don't have image of each bullet's damage to the aircrft, but have two, I guess, damage textures. These textures don't represent actual hits. Maybe there should be larger hole on the wings, which would then corespond to described behavior of the plane.

Must mention one more thing. Gunnery is everything, everything else is unimportant. Why bother with fuselage or the wings. If the adversary is flying a sturdy plane, go for the pilot.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:18 PM
THE FW-190 IS OVERMODELED! I had flew with it at a online game and, i took many hits at the entire plane: wings, fuselage, canopy...
I just put the plane to a vertical situation and wait for the enemy shot on it. Believe, nothing happened and the plane still flying like new. Do you wanna know what plane shot at me? Another FW-190 with it's mk-103 wing cannon.
The P-47 Thunderbolt is much more resistent than FW-190 in real life, but we don't see this on the FB.

Please, fix it soon Oleg.

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:15 PM
Then how did I kill a Fw190 with three bursts?

..



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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:52 PM
Two ways to kill a FW fairly easy with the jug is straight from the side when close or from directly above it (from the side if it is up on one wing) they seem to lose the engine in the first and the pilot in the second.

Any firing from it's six (which with it's speed and climb is most of what you get) is about worthless. I thought it was just bad gunnery on my part and played offline with the arrows on and had so many arrows in the plane you couldn't see the plane and it still outclimbed and outran me.

the jug is very vulnerable from the low position and the fw is vulnerable from the high position.
WYS
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