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Piaggio108
08-13-2004, 05:26 AM
I have busted my gear on 5 of the last 6 landings, i need some help. I seem to be hitting the groud too hard, how can I control that? I have been landing with and without flaps.

Piaggio108
08-13-2004, 05:26 AM
I have busted my gear on 5 of the last 6 landings, i need some help. I seem to be hitting the groud too hard, how can I control that? I have been landing with and without flaps.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-13-2004, 05:37 AM
My first guess would be that you are probably coming in to fast and possibly at to steep an angle.Try and bleed your speed down to around 240 before you lower flaps and start your final approach. Touch down speed I guess should be around 170 possibly lower. Sorry I can't be more specific.
Also (this maybe a silly question) you do know that landing gear is manually operated on the i-16 and that you need to map a couple of key's to raise and lower it?

Sorry disregard that last paragraph as I see you landed ok on at least one of your approaches but it is always worth mentioning in an I-16 thread.



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SUPERAEREO
08-13-2004, 05:57 AM
As the Balrog says you are almost certainly coming in with too steep an angle: try not to be above 300 metres when you start approaching the landing strip and descend very gradually keeping your speed within 220Kph and pointing your nose at the beginning of the strip.
When you are almost there get your gear down and use landing flaps to decelerate even further. Above all let ther down gently, raise your nose slightly just before touchdown and cut the throttle: she should settle down slowly and gently. Try and take your time when you land because it's one of those things that require time (and some practice).

S!



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Tully__
08-13-2004, 06:21 AM
Demo track for download (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/I16Landing.zip)

Good advice so far. Download the track and see one of my rare really good landings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Usually I bounce a bit. The trick is not being too fast or high and having a nice shallow approach as you come over the end of the runway and not flaring (rainsing the nose) and cutting throttle too early or too late. How you get there is you choice, but to start with try long and straight, it makes setting up the final stage easier.

Also, pay attention to how I use the controls. You'll notice that the stick hardly moves early in the approach, I'm using throttle to control descent angle. As long as you don't change the trim/elevator position and you keep the throttle changes from being too big, throttle wont change speed much, but rather the rate at which you're decending. If your intended touch down point is moving up your windscreen, add a bit of throttle (5-10%). If it's moving down your windscreen, pull the throttle back a bit.

When you get to the last stage of the descent pull the stick back a bit to slow down. Again, small changes are the go. You may need to add just a touch of throttle to maintain your decent angle as raising the nose at these slow speeds creates a lot of drag and losing speed when you're this slow loses a lot of lift.

After that, it's just practice.

Edit: One final note. This approach works for almost all aircraft (though the speeds may vary a bit). Once you've mastered the I-16 the rest should only take two or three landings each to get right with only a couple of exceptions.

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Breeze147
08-13-2004, 06:48 AM
What Tully said, plus a little trick I learned from jet sims. Use your gunsight as a velocity vector and put the cross hairs over the beginning of runway early in your approach. As you get closer, you can move it gradually down the runway, until near the end of your approach, it is pointing to the other end of the runway. This should give you a nice, smooth Angle Of Attack.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

FI WILLIE
08-13-2004, 08:26 AM
I know the I-16 has no elevator trim. I learned to fly this game in that plane in IL-2 and I like the lil fellers.

The I-16 will touch down nicely at 140km and if you really work at it 110 is very do-able. Once she settles, get rid fo the flaps, pull the stick back ( i'd recommend letting the speed get below 100km/h and hammer the brakes. Keeping the stick "in your gut" holds the tail down and helps to keep her from nosing over when you stand on the binders. The I-16 is a sweetheart IF you treat her right.

On trim equipped planes, I crank the nose up on final with elevator trim and keep the stick forces pretty neutral. The nose ends up high and you can use the motor to control your descent. Just as she is about to settle you can ease the stick back just a bit and let her settle. After she touches down, I dump the flaps and use the brakes to get her slowed down. I also use the rudder and differential braking to try to keep it on the runway. (unless I've got somebody chewing my tail off and then I let it get crazy to make it a bit harder to hit)

Virtus Junxit,
Mors Non Separabit.
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mortoma
08-13-2004, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI WILLIE:
I know the I-16 has no elevator trim. I learned to fly this game in that plane in IL-2 and I like the lil fellers.

The I-16 will touch down nicely at 140km and if you really work at it 110 is very do-able. Once she settles, get rid fo the flaps, pull the stick back ( i'd recommend letting the speed get below 100km/h and hammer the brakes. Keeping the stick "in your gut" holds the tail down and helps to keep her from nosing over when you stand on the binders. The I-16 is a sweetheart IF you treat her right.

On trim equipped planes, I crank the nose up on final with elevator trim and keep the stick forces pretty neutral. The nose ends up high and you can use the motor to control your descent. Just as she is about to settle you can ease the stick back just a bit and let her settle. After she touches down, I dump the flaps and use the brakes to get her slowed down. I also use the rudder and differential braking to try to keep it on the runway. (unless I've got somebody chewing my tail off and then I let it get crazy to make it a bit harder to hit)

Virtus Junxit,
Mors Non Separabit.
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQAAAGcT2og50!y1f7NgYX4rH0SBKAJ0*TnOdC3*WtgnO6hGP KX5PiB5W62XzquB*!VrAP7Zdv0N0X0XoOghYlsdCNgJc9MWMJg aWb0iiKk/109g2%20small.jpg
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati


(When all else fails, play dead.)
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One notch of flaps in most planes produces more lift than drag. So if you land with one notch of flaps, then it might be a good idea to raise them early, to help you settle. But it's not often you'll land with one notch of flaps. Real pilots might land like that in heavy crosswinds, but heavy crosswind is not modelled in FB, except in stormy weather. And then it's not modelled accurately.

Piaggio108
08-13-2004, 12:39 PM
Thank you, I'll watch the track and try that. I have been seting up far enough away, but I think i should start lower, previously it has been around 500m when I start the aproach. Mortoma, the I-16 only has two flap settings, full up and full down.

FI WILLIE
08-13-2004, 04:29 PM
I agree with you about flaps in the real world. What few planes I flew that used them, raising the flaps was something to do when you where taxiing back to the hangar. I seem to recall that they had a trim setting for t/o and landing as well. (SE Cessnas)

Most of the planes I flew were exprimental taildraggers, a Stearman, a few Cubs and T-Cart or three.

I also use a slip to get rid of alt as well every now and then.

In IL2, I dump mine out of habit. I'm usually shot up and landing hot and trying to get rid of all the lift I can to keep the thing on the runway.

Virtus Junxit,
Mors Non Separabit.
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PBNA-Boosher
08-13-2004, 09:27 PM
Do what the real pilots did, slow down enough to stick your head out the side and land that way!

Boosher
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